The Dark One…Again

[Keb]

I really fear that Rumple will have dealt with the Belle issue by putting her to sleep or something.

[Phee]

I haven’t posted in this thread yet, but it’s basically because the rest of you are handling things totally fine and I’m just sitting here nodding and wanting to repeatedly yell “PREACH”.

Nothing about this makes any sense whatsoever. Not from a storytelling standpoint, not based on the supposed rules and everything relating to DOs, not in any way. Absolutely the worst twist they could’ve possibly pulled. The show just did a backflip over a dozen sharks.

Then landed in the water with the most spectacular bellyflop ever.

….. I dunno. A commenter on Lily Spark’s latest review mentioned that Rumple might get to see Neal via the underworld plot and when I thought about it more….. maybe this big horrible cursed journey could possibly mirror season 1’s big horrible cursed journey that Rumple was also indirectly steering towards finding and regaining his son.

I wouldn’t mind it if Rumple were going to the Underworld as a means to help give his son another shot at being alive, (but MRJ ain’t coming back to this show any time soon). That would be the ultimate redemptive moment for Rumple. But would he even need to be the DO again in order to accomplish that? His blood opened the portal to the Underworld when he wasn’t the DO, so all he had to do was go and bleed into the pond as his mortal self, then hop on the boat and hand himself over to Hades in exchange for his son. So this whole regression to the DO is still needless character assassination, even if that IS his ultimate goal.

Of course, the fact that Dylan’s been on set could lend some credence to this theory, but Bae being brought back to life instead of Neal is not a thing I want to see happen, so that storyline wouldn’t be OK with me.

[MatthewPaul]

I wouldn’t mind it if Rumple were going to the Underworld as a means to help give his son another shot at being alive, (but MRJ ain’t coming back to this show any time soon). That would be the ultimate redemptive moment for Rumple. But would he even need to be the DO again in order to accomplish that? His blood opened the portal to the Underworld when he wasn’t the DO, so all he had to do was go and bleed into the pond as his mortal self, then hop on the boat and hand himself over to Hades in exchange for his son. So this whole regression to the DO is still needless character assassination, even if that IS his ultimate goal.

Of course, the fact that Dylan’s been on set could lend some credence to this theory, but Bae being brought back to life instead of Neal is not a thing I want to see happen, so that storyline wouldn’t be OK with me.

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Even if MRJ isn’t coming back (at least not in a series regular capacity, thanks to his contract with NBC), I could see Rumple having his own secret agenda in all of this. That’s just how he operates. We all know he really doesn’t care about bringing Hook back, and would rather he stay dead. Who’s to say he truly intends to honor Emma’s wishes? He could play with a technicality by saying “I only agreed to open the portal, not bring Hook back.” Realistically, Rumple would jump at the chance of reviving his son, now that he can travel to the Underworld. However, the show does have to workaround the fact that MRJ just isn’t returning in a permanent capacity, if at all.

I should clarify that the people who actually reported Young Baelfire filming didn’t know who the actor was, and Kat is pretty sure it wasn’t Dylan. It was only one random fan overspeculating that it was Dylan based on what those other people said. Based on what was described, it sounded like it was for a flashback of Rumple, Milah, and Baelfire before “The Crocodile.” It would make sense why there would be a different actor, if it wasn’t Dylan, since the character was younger back then and played by Sebastian Wilkinson for that episode.

[nevermore]

I wouldn’t mind it if Rumple were going to the Underworld as a means to help give his son another shot at being alive, (but MRJ ain’t coming back to this show any time soon). That would be the ultimate redemptive moment for Rumple. But would he even need to be the DO again in order to accomplish that?

I agree with you on all points. And I really wish there was a glimmer of truth to this theory, because at least then there’d maybe be a chance that the writers are not simply taking us for total idiots. But sadly, I doubt this is where they’re going. Remember how a number of us here were speculating that DO!Emma is pulling a long con, trying to trick the other DOs, all the while implementing her secret plan to destroy the darkness ? Because Dark Swan and all, and the show seemingly leading up to it for 4 seasons — to Emma’s hero journey to the dark side and back? Nope. Didn’t happen. Emma was turned into your standard, run of the mill damsel in distress flailing about. And the conclusion of the half arc was that Emma was finally willing to fight for Love.

Wait, wut? Wasn’t that, like, Season 1? Yep. It was. Until they reset her to 0, because these writers have no more original stories to tell about these characters.

So I think what we see is what we get. Rumple is EVILZ and loves POWERZ.

It must be true — Hook said so.

[Rainbow]

Yeah, I saw that idea online as well of Rumple having other reasons to go to Underworld like to get Neal, i would say would be a parallel to S1 and if he ended bringing a young Bae played by Dylan, by the way, ad not talking about some young Bae scene that was talked here by paps, that still now no one knows if was a flashbak or not, im talking about how Dylan mom, rt the episode 100 title, and said to some fan that she hope he was there and after she said to another fan u will have to wait and see the episode to see if he is on the episode. I think@POM even mentioned that some producer posteda pic while filming a episode 100 of what it looked like Rumple and Bae house before the portal thing, yes, if that scene happens may be a flashback, and with the other flashback  with milah, can even be a hint to bring Dylan( i mean Malcom died as adult and will appear as Pan, so is possible)in the future, with a new set of memoriesm in which the writers will say”see we hinted back at 214″ and that 214 was a foreshadowing, like they thought about this 20 years ago and was always planned, well what they usually say.Also recent Dylan mom changed her twiter banner to a bts pic of Bae and Rumple, so who knows maybe is a hint. Which is something i dont like, but would fit Rumple crazy power ideal, if Emma can bring Hook, i will bring my son, and will raise him with Belle and we would be the family we were always supposed to be and since last season he even said something like Neal was a man that reminded him of his failure, that Bae was his son not Neal.But yeah i think in the end will be him dying or him sharing TLK with Belle bc they may have some new baby that is worth changing and start a new life with this new family, with some other retcon in the middle.

Even if MRJ isn’t coming back (at least not in a series regular capacity, thanks to his contract with NBC), I could see Rumple having his own secret agenda in all of this. That’s just how he operates. We all know he really doesn’t care about bringing Hook back, and would rather he stay dead. Who’s to say he truly intends to honor Emma’s wishes? He could play with a technicality by saying “I only agreed to open the portal, not bring Hook back.” Realistically, Rumple would jump at the chance of reviving his son, now that he can travel to the Underworld. However, the show does have to workaround the fact that MRJ just isn’t returning in a permanent capacity, if at all.

I dont usually talk much outside Sf thread about MRJ and Game of silence, also have to point out i dont want MRJ back in any capacity and i dont think he will return, but i also have to be open minded to all possibilities, so it causes me confusion when fans talk about how is impossible for Neal to return with saying MRJ is busy bc he has a contract with NBC or he is filming( which he is not anymore), when we all know that there are only 2 reasons for him not coming back, The writers dont want him there or the actor prefers to stay away of the show, just like Seb and jamie that are the moment are free not working, their projects that they have planned is only start start filming next year, so they have plenty of time, they simpy dont want to go back, however is MRJ i would say is more the writers dont want him back and he doesnt want to be back.

So to the point i was talking, 1st: No one here  knows the terms of contracts, but MRJ doesnt have any contract with NBC, the actors dont have contracts with networks, they have with Studios( that in ouat case the network and studio are the same), GOS studio is Sony Tv, not NBC, and even tho after the pick up in upfronts became a co production with NBC universal tv, all the production stuff is made by sony, the scripts are a sony propriety. People can argument he still has to promote it bc still didnt air so he is connected to NBC, i remenber everyone, that actors are not bonded with normal work contracts, they end filming  and even tho they still have to promote the show they are free to do other things, example, Finest hours still needs to premiere, so that would mean MRJ is link to Disney, that actually owns abc.

2nd: Robbie Kay is back and he is on heroes, that is on NBC, and  is a NBC production. In fact the show is still on air. I also believe Cora actress has a tv show as well, and they will be seen again, David anders is on CW and they say they want Rose that is also on CW, all with contracts in shows.

3rd: Nothing would make me happier that GOS having a S2, which would probably be filmed from september to December like this year to air in spring, but the thing is, the storyline for this show, only fits max in 2 or 3 seasons of 10 episodes per year, so i going into season 1 not expecting a season 2. Since NBC and dark cable shows type dont fit well. I hope , i will be surprised and GOS will be renew, but i dont expect it.

4th: I would say i would be surprised if MRJ was ever would go back to OUAT, mostly bc would be to some retcon and to give some blessings to a certain couple, but im no professional writer and the way OUAT is written nowdays it would be easy to insert MRJ back, Henry and Rumple may share a heart with him, Neal says he goes to NY to pick his stuff and then is some episodes out of SB, he may even take Belle and henry and all the babies in SB and no one would even notice, during that time some other villain will apear, which means action, action, GA will even forget Neal and the others, and the after they would return, bc they can fit like 1 or 2 seasons in only one week or 2 and they would arrive  for the last episode of the show, asking everyone what happened, see totally fits, stupid timeline, no continuity, retcons and some more manbo jambo in bwt and no one will question. And here is the way to explain Neal and other characters not appearing.

"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

[Slurpeez]

I shake my head in dismay at this “twist.” Unless the writers plan to make Rumple into the figure whom Emma and Merlin supposed could wield the dark power for good, then re-making Rumple into the dark one is total character assassination. Back in Desperate Souls, it was shown that Rumple, the humble spinner, didn’t want power just for power’s sake; he wanted it to protect Bae. Rumple going all evil and deceiving Belle from S3b – S4b was at least the result of the dark one curse consuming its host due to Rumple’s heart going almost entirely dark. While he did become addicted to power and it did become his first love even over Belle, Rumple was set free from the hold the dark one curse had on him when the darkness was removed from him S4. Now, in S5, we’re retroactively supposed to believe that Rumple has only ever been coward who, despite what was shown in the episode Manhattan, only wounded himself to get out of dying? I don’t buy it. No matter how much the writers try and back-peddle on Rumple’s original motivations before the re-set button was hit in S3b, it was clearly demonstrated that Rumple wounded himself so as not to leave his son an orphan the way Peter Pan left him. Rumple eventually kicked the nasty habit of self-preservation in S3a Going Home by sacrificing himself to save his family. He then had the darkness sucked out of him in S4 finale, making him into the purest hero who ever lived. He then showed he was no longer a coward by defeating the bear and defeating Hook in a sword fight! So this cockamamie plot development that Rumple, as a good man without the taint of the dark curse, still has this nasty habit of self-preservation such that he’ll lie again to the woman he loves, is utter garbage.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[nevermore]

^^ All this.

The problem is that A&E and crew seem to think that their audience are rats in a Skinner box. For those unfamiliar, here’s one possible set up:

This, folks, is us.

Rat presses lever, gets positive stimulus, rat presses lever again, and so on ad infinitum. The rat, as you can imagine, doesn’t think to itself “wait, I appear to be sitting in a box, with an electrode attached to my head, and when I press this lever I get a reward which is keeping me docile and preventing me from questioning the fact that I’m stuck in this cage, and am actually starving.” The rat thinks “press lever – feel good! – press lever…”

I think this is the kind of cognitive activity A&E seem to be attributing to us, their show’s audience.  They are assuming that if a storyline or character arc worked before, it’s enough for this audience to simply repeat it ad nauseum, like the positive stimulus for the aforementioned rat, because we’re all dumb as goldfish, and don’t remember what they showed us in the previous seasons. This combined with A&E’s notorious inability to take criticism sounds to me like what they’re saying is this:

“Shut up, stop thinking, and give us your money. Keep paying your overpriced cable bundle to get ABC or keep downloading the show from ITunes — and don’t forget to buy the more expensive HD version — because that’s what you’re here for. Don’t like it? Hater! Quiet down, now. Press the lever. You know you like it.”

Ugh. No words.

[thedarkonedearie]

I swear to heaven…if Belle is pregnant and they use her child as a means to have Rumple *finally* turn over a new leaf and be a good man thereby making Neal *not enough* there won’t be enough tables in the world for me to flip.

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But I think it is entirely possibly to have Rumple feel remorse for not being there for Baelfire, so when he has this new baby with Belle, he wants to do it right this time, and be a better father.  That would make a ton of sense, and would still honor his love for Baelfire, and possibly redeem him as a character.  I wonder sometimes if you just can’t let go of Baelfire dying on the show…..Neil is gone.  Rumple needs to move on, and if another child reminds him of what he did to his first son, and helps him become a better father and person now, I think that’s a realistic way to end his arc.

[Rainbow]

I wonder sometimes if you just can’t let go of Baelfire dying on the show…..Neil is gone.  Rumple needs to move on, and if another child reminds him of what he did to his first son, and helps him become a better father and person now, I think that’s a realistic way to end his arc.

I think u mean move forward, not sure if u are a parent, but i saw a article about a father of some girl that died in some shooting in a university( in USA) and i think some of the parents in this thread can confirm that more than me, since im no parent, but he said that people used to say that he had to move on, bc he had other kids, and his quote was, that people are wrong when say move on, people should say move forward, bc  you can`t ever move on from your kid death, u can continue to live, so u can move forward with your live, BUT never move on, because in reality the dead of a kid will always create a hole that cant never be replaced, the problem is that OUAT doesnt deal with those things, and will probably show that Bae was not enough bc was not his son with Belle his TL, that with that kid that hole is replace, lik Bae never existed.

I will not mention the other thing u said, about Baelfire, with respect to all the rest of the people on this forum, OH and by the way , is not Neil , is NEAL.

 

"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

[thedarkonedearie]

thedarkonedearie wrote:

I wonder sometimes if you just can’t let go of Baelfire dying on the show…..Neil is gone. Rumple needs to move on, and if another child reminds him of what he did to his first son, and helps him become a better father and person now, I think that’s a realistic way to end his arc.

I think u mean move forward, not sure if u are a parent, but i saw a article about a father of some girl that died in some shooting in a university( in USA) and i think some of the parents in this thread can confirm that more than me, since im no parent, but he said that people used to say that he had to move on, bc he had other kids, and his quote was, that people are wrong when say move on, people should say move forward, bc you can`t ever move on from your kid death, u can continue to live, so u can move forward with your live, BUT never move on, because in reality the dead of a kid will always create a hole that cant never be replaced, the problem is that OUAT doesnt deal with those things, and will probably show that Bae was not enough bc was not his son with Belle his TL, that with that kid that hole is replace, lik Bae never existed. I will not mention the other thing u said, about Baelfire, with respect to all the rest of the people on this forum, OH and by the way , is not Neil , is NEAL.

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My apologies on the spelling there.  I will say that IF Belle is pregnant, and IF Rumple is redeemed through this baby, and IF Rumple simply redeems himself without any mention of needing to move “forward” from Baelfire to become a better person and to finally rid himself of his power lust and finally see the love that has been in front of him the whole time in Belle, then I will be very angry.  Bae obviously should have been enough.  But clearly it wasn’t.  His lust for power is still the most important thing in his life.  That’s what makes him such a compelling villain in my opinion.  He has the ability to let it go, but he just can’t.  And to a point that interesting.  And let’s be honest, Robert Carlyle being evil is just fantastic.  It’s just a shame they wasted our time with a “make Rumple a hero” arc only to revert back to where we started.

[Author]

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