Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Four › General S4 spoilers › Theory on Elsa & Will.
- This topic has 20 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 10 months ago by PriceofMagic.
May 19, 2014 at 10:47 pm #270658
You’ve got to admit, though…given the nature of the original Anna’s sacrifice, having Ana(resurrection)stasia as Anna has a certain consistency to it. She’s already something of a phoenix and I like the idea of Ana and Elsa being fire and ice. Balance is everything. 🙂
p.s. If there is Jelsa, I’m probably shipping it. I just hope they don’t turn Will into too fickle a character since Regina’s downplayed the emotional impact of not having a heart and all that.[adrotate group="5"]
"The Laws (of Magic) never bothered me anyway."May 20, 2014 at 4:04 am #270716MyrilParticipant
But Anna and Elsa in the movie weren’t fire and ice IMO, there was nothing to balance out between them, only something to balance out inside of Elsa’s character, and though I probably would picture Anna with Spring and Elsa with Winter, I would not get the picture of fire and ice into my mind if it comes to them. Difference is not at the core of their relationship, even though Elsa is a person different from pretty much everyone around. They love each other in the beginning, they both suffer being forced apart. Sorry, fire and ice is for me an image of antagonism and that is not what I sense in their relationship. But different reading.
Admittedly I never warmed up to the character of Anastasia, I found her mostly arrogant and irritating and more cold as ice than any fiery, which can be okay, but as character I found her boring, a kind of cooled off version of Cora minus the psychopathy, though the turns in her character were rather crazy. It was one of the main reasons that I stopped watching Wonderland after 4 episodes (besides turning Wonderland into mostly just some more happy ending seeking dramatic love story) And pretty sure some are going to tell me, that I should watch the rest and might then change my mind, but doubt I would, she didn’t struck me any different when I watched episode 11, still found her boring.
Anna was a lovely and on first sight sympathetic character with a certain integrity, and yes, could be interesting to change her story and challenge her personality even, but can’t see her being changed to power hungry like Anastasia has been, not even temporarily. Different kind of temper in these characters.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯May 21, 2014 at 11:39 pm #270875
Episode 11 (sorry, had written 12 by mistake) was her big character-flipping point. Anastasia (reborn) is a warmer, more impulsive, and sympathetic character than the Red Queen. Even so, I doubt they could incorporate all the elements of the Anna character from the film, just enough of them to make it work in the ONCE universe. I won’t nag you to watch it all the way through; if it didn’t grow on you, it didn’t grow on you. 🙂
You’re right, fire and ice is something of an antagonistic relationship and not visually expressed in the film at all. I would say that character-wise Elsa illustrates the perils of taking a closed-off approach to dealing with people and reckless, open, Anna reminds us why we shouldn’t talk to strangers. Neither starts off in the right, they improve by listening to and learning from each other (and, more so, their own mistakes). That’s the type of balance I was referring to and, I think, the type that you meant also. I’ve been conceptualizing it visually in those terms because I’ve already got fixed ideas for Ana in my head (that’s just me) and adapted Elsa to fit them because I don’t see Frozen in OUAT being 100% in keeping with the film but, rather, the main themes from Frozen applied in different ways to OUAT. I’ve also conceptualized Elsa and Anna as seasons but, I had them as more Winter/Summer, since those were the two seasons in play in the film. Spring would probably work just as well. 😉
"The Laws (of Magic) never bothered me anyway."May 22, 2014 at 6:27 am #270894MyrilParticipant
It’s sometimes interesting, how different people perceive a movie, its characters, and what messages or ideas we read into it. Not talking to strangers was not a lesson I saw in the movie for example. After all it was a stranger who truly helped Anna, although not initially out of the good of his heart but for goods (supplies), but Kristoff turns out to be Anna’s prince of heart. Prince Hans is the charming predator type Anna falls for thanks to her trustful nature – more giving the message never trust the shiny charming sports boy (the charming predator kind is often shown in high school dramas as the sports star of the school, cool boys club, but taking advantage of the innocent, kind-hearted girl)
Certainly don’t see them keeping 100% of Frozen for OUaT. As much as I love though, that on OUaT they give (sometimes) new views, different perspectives on well known, classical, childhood heroes, storybook characters, I don’t like them to change the characters in their essence. If looking at plot it is seldom a problem to bring in a new iconic character, that is the easy part of it. It’s not even that much of a challenge to create connections with the core cast, with other characters per se looking at plot. I would even say, the show is more plot driven, but A&E have claimed, it’s more character driven.
I can see plot reasons, and of course shiny geeky fun reasons as well, to make Anastasia Anna but so far I don’t see Ana in Anna or Anna in Ana, I don’t see it in the character. Admitted I am not deep into knowing Ana, but nothing from what I’ve see of her in the few episodes of OUaTiW I watched (including the 3rd 11th and final), cries for me same character. Unless you want her to be someone with multiple personality – and no, memory loss doesn’t explain to me such different personalities as I think they are. To me Frozen’s Anna shares more personality traits with Snow White for example (as in the animated movie and OUaT), while Elsa on the other hand in some aspects comes closer to Anastasia of OUaTiW.
If just looking at plot, as said, that is more the easy part. And still it would need some good answers, how to make it work. Ana and Anna sound is nice to start with, to get a creative spark, but that doesn’t write the story, or plot. So, how can we imagine Elsa as Anastasia’s sister? Was Anastasia adopted? If not, than that would make Elsa one of the stepsisters of Ashley/Cinderella, which could have some plot charm, but so far they were only 2 stepsisters in the picture, Anastasia and Drizella. Anastasia falling in love with a commoner is not even something A&E had to come up with, it happened in the lesser known second Cinderella movie (thought there he was a baker). Drizella though never becomes a sympathetic character, stays pretty much cruel and jealous and ends up as maiden in the third movie. So anyone wanting Drizella to turn out to be Elsa? If not, we need a third stepsister – where was she in the story with Cinderella? So guess we better go with the idea that Ana was adopted, the child stolen by, uhm, Rumple from her parents, out of whatever reason, and given to the Tremaines to raise. But why should Lady Tremaine be interested in adopting Ana, asides getting some riches for it? Wait, Rumple could have told her, Ana some day would be a queen (as usual he would leave out details), so Lady Tremaine assumed, that would make her rich. Ana’s story goes on with the Knave and how it played out in Wonderland. And now Elsa shows up, desperately looking for her sister. And somehow Will stumbles into the mess, and in the end is the one to bring Ana and Elsa back together.
Could work, turn Ana even more into another victim of circumstances and of Rumple, at least her biological mother loved her maybe, it was her adoptive mother who seeded the bad traits in her, more prove for evil being nurtured and not born, because Ana was such a sweet, lovely child at birth. She could have been like Snow White, but thanks to bad Dark One imp Rumple was turned into a better version of Cora.
It could work, somewhat, still don’t see Anna in Ana. I share the view, that evil is not born, but as much I can’t help it but observe that no one of us is born as totally blank slate if it comes to personality. If we use our talents and traits for doing evil or for doing good, or for something more in between (so many things are many shades of gray) is nothing our genes dictate nor fate, but we are born with somewhat different set of talents and traits.
Advantage of making Elsa Penelope, Will’s sister, would be, that Penelope is a blank slate. All we know is, she was Will’s sister and died, drowning under ice, assumed dead. Instead she could have been found be a nice, freshly married royal couple somehow, who took pity and her in and she became Elsa. And Will, back in Storybrooke with some guilty feelings about having betrayed Robin Hood and his Merry Men back in the days, there to help Robin, who of course got in some mischief situation, because, well, that is what happens to Regina’s lovers, confrontation with death (maybe he got frozen, or his wife’s hearts gets cold and she turns into a fury). Only be accident and lucky for them all it is revealed, that he an Elsa are connected, and with his great experience in rescuing people through true love, he has the right idea to help her to get her powers under control and refrain from taking revenge on Rumple. Or something along that line. And instead of the big bad we get a new big hero for Storybrooke.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯May 22, 2014 at 11:06 am #270910
Just in keeping with the whole “innocence reclaimed” idea, I think Anastasia (i.e. the White Queen version of her) could be written to be enough like Anna where it mattered. I totally agree with you that, personality-wise, the Red Queen version is far more like Elsa than Anna, which could put Anastasia in a good position to relate to where Elsa is coming from. I’ve also considered that the twist in this case could end up being that Elsa and An(n)a are one in the same, no new sister needed, per say, maybe just a good friend. Or, maybe there’s no biological sister needed at all. I like the idea of Will’s sister being Elsa as well and, since Will and Ana are now the White King and Queen, that would be more like a sister-in-law.
If Lady Tremaine adopted all her daughters, it might help explain the sudden disdain towards the previously pampered Anastasia – I haven’t seen the Cinderella sequels so, all I have to go on here is the first movie. I’d just figured this was because Will had come into the picture. I don’t really see Drizella as playing much part either, unless she gets renamed and given a full character make-over. Maybe after Ana ran away with Will Lady Tremaine arranged a loveless marriage to a king for Drizella, who maybe was better at concealing her feelings and doing what was expected of her. That whole timeline is a little confusing to me because, as Ana leaves, Lady Tremaine says “At least I have your sisters” but, we know Ashley was already engaged to Prince Thomas at that point (the Jabberwocky mentions it later) so, there should only have been one left for her to use. Maybe, having seen the sequels, you understand that comment a bit better.
I’ve got a favorite theory that’s less reliant on characters already being matches for their Frozen counterparts and more on where they could develop from their current state that would still serve the key points of the Frozen/Snow Queen storyline. I might write it out later in greater detail (or as fan-fiction) but, for now, I’m keeping it to myself. I really like all your ideas too, though!
"The Laws (of Magic) never bothered me anyway."May 22, 2014 at 12:04 pm #270912PheeParticipant
opera13 was asking in the chat just before about the context of Will telling Alice about his sister, so while I had the ep open, figured I may as well type it up in case anyone wants it to reference…
Will: You’re fighting to hold onto your father, the only family you’ve got left. If that makes you a terrible person, then I wish everybody was as terrible as you.
Alice: I don’t know why I still need to find proof for him, after all these years. I suppose I’m just –
Will: I grew up with a very stubborn girl. Always felt like they were the best kind.
Alice: Was she an old flame?
Will: Nothin’ like that. My sister, Penelope. Four years younger and better at almost everythin’. We had a lake by our cottage, and in winter it’d freeze over. We musta spent hours, days even, out on that lake. But all it takes is one second, one thin patch of ice, and your whole life changes forever. I always wondered what she’d be like when she grew up. Maybe, I think, she woulda been a bit like you.May 22, 2014 at 12:10 pm #270914RumplesGirlKeymaster
I always wondered what she’d be like when she grew up
We knew by the time this episode aired that Socha would be coming to ONCE. I am beginning to get suspicious."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"May 22, 2014 at 12:37 pm #270924PheeParticipant
It is suspicious. It’d also pretty much butcher the Disney story and the only similarity left would be that her powers have to do with ice in some way. That doesn’t mean that it’s not something A&E would do, on the contrary I think they totally would. But anyone tuning in expecting to see the Elsa they already know and love would be disappointed.May 23, 2014 at 1:10 am #271050
It’s possible that by the time fall gets here, everyone will have played-out the Elsa they know and love ad nauseam. The only thing I’m not tired of at this point is the music and speculating what she’s going to look like in the ONCEverse.
"The Laws (of Magic) never bothered me anyway."May 24, 2014 at 1:27 pm #271150FelieParticipant
If they replace the sister relationship element of Frozen with a brother-sister relationship they will be ignoring one of the best messages to come from the movie; women don’t need men to save them (and yes, it really does matter that the man is a brother as opposed to a lover). I will be indescribably disappointed if Anna is left out or replaced by anyone, especially a male character, as Frozen was a big step forward for the Disney Princess franchise with its emphasis on female independence and empowerment.
If Elsa and Will’s stories are related somehow I hope it has something to do with Will’s sister’s death, and NOT because Elsa is Wills sister. I also hope that the writers will be more imaginative than to make Elsa one of his bloody ‘jilted lovers’ (sorry, but by now any plot-point like this should, imo, be labelled for what it is; unoriginal, boring, sexist, shallow, and lazy bad writing)!
I. Want. This!!!
"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"
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