TINY: Favorite and Least Favorite Moments

[schmacky]

I don’t even know what wrong way you’re talking about. Is this about Henry going to NYC with Emma? Like Snow said, they couldn’t find Regina. Is this about Snow’s comment about not needing to run things by Regina? It was solely her opinion which she said in the nicest way possible, but it’s something I don’t think even Emma will agree with.

Regina is the one going about things the wrong way. Her actions are her actions. It will not be Emma’s or Snow’s or David’s fault if Regina goes on a rampage and doesn’t change for the better. It will never be their fault. It will never be their responsibility to change her. Ever. Even if it’s what they want. It is not their responsibility. It is Regina’s and solely Regina’s responsibility. Once she actually puts forth effort, then perhaps I can see Emma (and maaaaaybe Snow) supporting her. But not until they actually see effort on her part.

[lilamae]

@medchen wrote:

I believe Regina is a responsible parent when it comes to her son. She loves him and took care of him for 11 years. I understand why Emma and the Charmings are afraid for him to go live with her permanently, but I don’t think it is justified to keep them from eatchother completely, with no contact at all- But that said, I don’t think that is what they are perposely and knowingly doing right now. It’s just that curcomstances has made it that way right now.

Schmacky-

No, they don’t have a responsibility to help Regina change. The victims do not have a responsibility to help reform their attackers. No.

People always have a responsibility for their own actions. And Emma, Snow and Charmings (+more) actions towards Regina will have an effect on her ‘redemption’. So if they WANT her to change for the better (and the want is important here) I say, that they are going about it the wrong way… But if they don’t want her to change , if they just don’t care. Then I say, they should carry on the way they’re going now.

Except that we have seen Regina and Henry have contact. They’ve been at parties and gatherings together, David even had Regina look after him. The only time she hasn’t actively been permitted contact was when there was strong evidence she had killed Archie.

Regina might have taken care of Henry for 10 years, but that was only when she was granted complete control over him and his environment, with very few outside influences. Now that he’s getting older, he’s rebelling against her, and the environment around him has fundamentally changed. Regina has shown herself to be incapable of dealing with these pressures (e.g. trying to put Emma under the sleeping curse, working with Cora again to try and get him all to herself). She managed to kill Henry because of it, she is no longer a safe person for him.

[Grimmsister]

@Schmacky wrote:

I don’t even know what wrong way you’re talking about. Is this about Henry going to NYC with Emma? Like Snow said, they couldn’t find Regina. Is this about Snow’s comment about not needing to run things by Regina? It was solely her opinion which she said in the nicest way possible, but it’s something I don’t think even Emma will agree with.

Regina is the one going about things the wrong way. Her actions are her actions. It will not be Emma’s or Snow’s or David’s fault if Regina goes on a rampage and doesn’t change for the better. It will never be their fault. It will never be their responsibility to change her. Ever. Even if it’s what they want. It is not their responsibility. It is Regina’s and solely Regina’s responsibility. Once she actually puts forth effort, then perhaps I can see Emma (and maaaaaybe Snow) supporting her. But not until they actually see effort on her part.

What I wrote previously- By keeping Henry from Regina + By saying “We know who you are and who you will always be” interpreded as- You are the Evil Queen, and that’s that, too bad. You won’t ever change.

I agree it will never be their fault. But as human beings we have a responsibility for eatchother. We don’t just put criminals in prisons and leave them there to rot- Thankfully… We still try to reach them. And since I feel like Snow and certainly Emma still is able to see something good in Regina and ‘occasionally’ want her to and believe she can change… Then they should not take her son and only motivation, and at the moment only chance to change, away from her- That is going about it the wrong way.
But I understand why they thought they had to do that, in the moment where they thought Regina had killed Archie- But that doesn’t change the fact that it was the wrong thing to do. If they hadn’t done it, Regina wouldn’t be of behind the curtain scheeming with Cora now.

[schmacky]

Yeah as a society we don’t just lock people up and throw away the key. People work with convicted criminals to help them “change” but you know what? It’s not the victims who do it.

Snow, David, Emma.. they are all victims of Regina. She has done something horrific to each and every one of them. To suggest that it is them out of all the people in the realm to help Regina change is ludicrous. To say that their actions towards her have been wrong is just so incorrect IMO. Whether or not Regina killed Archie doesn’t even matter.. she still killed people. Archie would have just been the most recent. She isn’t a safe person for Henry to be around unsupervised.

Snow was so right in her small conversation with Regina. She apologized for being wrong about Archie but she let it know that just because they were wrong about Archie doesn’t mean that all is forgiven (her comment about Emma not needing to run things by her).

If they hadn’t done it, Regina wouldn’t be of behind the curtain scheeming with Cora now.

Yes, she would. If you think Regina wouldn’t be with Cora right now if they didn’t think she killed Archie then you’re crazy. Because if all it took for Regina to run to her mom and be all evil again is one setback then it was bound to happen. It doesn’t even matter what the catalyst was. It was going to happen. She was going to turn back. Why? Because she wasn’t really trying to change.

And your quote suggests it’s their fault that Regina is scheming with Cora instead of it being Regina’s choice to scheme with Cora.

[Grimmsister]

😀
We seem to just be throwing the same arguments back and forth repetedly and not really getting anywhere.
Agree to disagree ?

I also think I remember having just about the same exact conversation a while back with you Schmacky.
It’s been fun though 🙂

[schmacky]

This is my main beef

And your quote suggests it’s their fault that Regina is scheming with Cora instead of it being Regina’s choice to scheme with Cora.

So, you feel that Regina went back to scheming because the Charmings handled the situation wrong?
Or do you feel she went back to Cora because it was her choice to do so?

And the answer can’t be both. You can’t blame someone else for a choice you make. It might have had influence, but it’s not the reason.

[Grimmsister]

Schmacky-

And the answer can’t be both. You can’t blame someone else for a choice you make. It might have had influence, but it’s not the reason.

Yes other peoples actions influence your own actions- That is the only thing I’ve been trying to state 😀

So, you feel that Regina went back to scheming because the Charmings handled the situation wrong?
Or do you feel she went back to Cora because it was her choice to do so?

It was her choice, but regarding above statement, influenced by the actions of people around her.

That is seriously the last thing I have to say about this topic 😆 atleast for tonight 😉

[schmacky]

I don’t disagree that actions influence actions. We both agreed to that awhile back with the whole “there will be consequences to their actions and consequences to her actions” bit.

I understand why they thought they had to do that, in the moment where they thought Regina had killed Archie- But that doesn’t change the fact that it was the wrong thing to do.

It is comments like these that confuse me. You aren’t simply saying that anything Emma or Snow or Random Guy #2 does will influence Regina. You’re saying that what they did was actually wrong. You’re talking in hindsight or at all? Either way.. you think someone is a killer, you take a child away from them. Even if that child is keeping that person from going completely over the edge. Why? Because the child’s safety is more important than the person trying to change only for that child.

So we can agree to disagree I gotta know exactly what you’re saying here… you’re saying that even though Regina is a proven danger to Henry, he should not be taken away from her because he’s the reason she wants to change?

[Grimmsister]

My Gosh Schmack! you are killing me here !! I couldn’t stay away from commenting 😆
It is the same Question I’ve been answering all along, or tried to answer.

Let’s take Regina point of view out of it for a sec. And look at it from Emma’s angle. She does, sometimes, want Regina to be good and believe she can change.

-So belief and motivation is there, for Emma to act with.

-We already established that Emmas actions will influence Reginas

-So can we agree that she would then want to act accordingly, for that change to happen ?

Then what does Emma do?- She takes away Reginas sole motivation to change for the better- Erm! Wrong thing to do. Because If your horse only follows you, when you hold out an apple in front of it- you don’t throw the apple away- because then your horse don’t follow you…. Ergo- Throwing away the apple, would be the WRONG thing to do, if you want your horse to follow you.

And I don’t agree that Regina is a danger to Henry, neither do I believe that Emma is completely convinced of that, she might not be convinced of the opposide either. But she was willing to give Regina a chance before ‘the Cricket insident’ hopefully she will come back to that-maybe she is already, but Regina doesn’t know that right now.

[schmacky]

My Gosh Schmack! you are killing me here !! I couldn’t stay away from commenting

OK.

Not really sure why you couldn’t answer the question. It was basically a yes or no.

Your horse analogy is poor for horses do not have conscious choice. Regina isn’t an animal that will blindly follow whatever she desires.

Then what does Emma do?- She takes away Reginas sole motivation to change for the better

She didn’t do that at all. It wasn’t for the better. It was simply because no other option was available. She was leaving town, she had to. No choice. She knows from personal experience how dangerous Cora is. She knows from personal experience that Cora wants to get a hold of Henry. She cannot protect him if she is out of town. She takes him with her. She doesn’t take him away from Regina. If Regina is a weak minded individual that expects everyone to twist their life around for her needs and can’t understand anyone else’s motivations then she’s a lost cause.

But she was willing to give Regina a chance before ‘the Cricket insident’ hopefully she will come back to that-maybe she is already, but Regina doesn’t know that right now.

Never suggested that Emma wasn’t giving Regina a chance. I said how the kid shouldn’t be with Regina unsupervised. Which he hasn’t been since Emma got back into town. Smart woman.

You think that Henry not being with Regina, for whatever reason, is wrong. Right? OK. I disagree. There.

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