November 7, 2016 at 9:59 am #329972MattParticipant
And the reason for that is that they never bothered with world-building, so now they’re just confusing themselves.
I think they did bother with it at first, but I don’t feel that they realised how long the show would go on with and therefore the depth of their world-building wasn’t sufficient. They boxed themselves in in some areas, and inevitably have had to break and twist most of the rules that they initially created to the point that they undermine themselves and the show in pretty much every episode. It’s just a great shame because even now I still feel that there is so much potential in this concept, but I don’t know that the show can ever fundamentally be repaired at this point.
Also, why do they have to keep creating these stupid plot devices like the sapling of true love? We have never heard of it before and I am sure it could have been used a lot of times in the past in terms of breaking spells or assisting with something or over. Why couldn’t they just have been reminded of their true love in some other way?
I also don’t like to come across with a hater. I have a great love for this show and that is why I get so frustrated by it.[adrotate group="5"]November 7, 2016 at 10:06 am #329973AKAParticipant
Also, I’m sorta shocked that no one has brought up Neal. By the end, he and his father had made a sort of peace. Neal loved his father in spite of his father’s flaws and even came to understand some of Rumple’s fears and cowardice thanks to their time in Neverland and leaning about Pan. Someone needs to remind Rumple of this, that his other son saw the man behind the beast and moreover saw that his father was still his Papa even when he didn’t always like some of his actions. But that would mean bringing up Neal which, yknow, we mustn’t do.
Does Rumple recognize this, or does he see Bae’s death as a failure. I think they never really explored this but gave us hints that Rumple blames himself for Bae’s death. In the end of season 4 while they are in the alternate world the author tells Rumple that he is to blame for Bae’s death, and this is just brushed under the rug. Rumple has always taken full responsibility for his actions and has even gone farther and taken responsibility for consequences that were other people’s makings. I think this is the dynamic that has been in play since season 4 but never expressed on the show. The reason Rumple wanted power is because he feels that when he does not have power he looses the things that he loves. So while it may be wrong circular thinking I can see Rumple seeing the fact that he did not have power to stop Bae’s death as a failure to protect him and therefore his fault. This would come into play now, because Rumple does not want to fail again. He has no idea why this child hates him, so he has no idea how to fix it so he is relying on powerful magical items to try and help fix the problem. The problem he still has not seen is that the pursuit of power is the reason he lost Belle and maybe it is the reason he is going to loose his son’s love.November 7, 2016 at 10:07 am #329974RumplesGirlKeymaster
Given what @nevermore wrote about the cycle A and E put Rumple through, I’m guessing that Rumple follows through on his plans and manages to cut away Morfetus’s destiny or fate or whatever (again, I’m confused…what exactly is it that Rumple will take away; is it just Morfetus’s hatred for his father? How is that “destiny” and not “byproduct of Rumple’s actions and Belle’s opinions”)
this would explain why it’s Morfetus as an adult under the hood killing Emma"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 7, 2016 at 10:10 am #329975RumplesGirlKeymaster
This would come into play now, because Rumple does not want to fail again. He has no idea why this child hates him, so he has no idea how to fix it so he is relying on powerful magical items to try and help fix the problem.
That makes sense, to be sure. I still wish Rumple would say something like, “what if I fail…I did with Bae. Look what happened the last time I was a father.” It would make him look less Black-Hat and more like the Rumple we’ve known all along, clinging to power for a multitude of reasons like protecting his family."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 7, 2016 at 10:12 am #329976MattParticipant
what exactly is it that Rumple will take away; is it just Morfetus’s hatred for his father? How is that “destiny” and not “byproduct of Rumple’s actions and Belle’s opinions
I think that he believes he is cutting away the current path that the baby is on, which leads to his hatred for Rumple. That being said, the assumption here is that he would get another shot at Morfetus loving him, but in actual fact he could end up dead, hating him even more, or any other number of outcomes.
For all we know, Rumple may end up cutting away his son’s destiny to be a saviour, and in turn make him a villian.November 7, 2016 at 11:11 am #329980AKAParticipant
That makes sense, to be sure. I still wish Rumple would say something like, “what if I fail…I did with Bae. Look what happened the last time I was a father.” It would make him look less Black-Hat and more like the Rumple we’ve known all along, clinging to power for a multitude of reasons like protecting his family.
Yep, total failure on the writer’s part instead we got one line “What if I fail” which we as viewers are supposed to remember that he failed last time (which he didn’t) actually didn’t Morpheus say he did not want Rumple to destroy this family like he did his last one. Does Belle feel that Rumple destroyed his last family? We tend to forget that Rumple was an excellent, loving father before he became the dark one and while very flawed afterwards his primary motivation has always been the love of his son and fixing his mistake. I again question whether Morpheus is actually their son or not, it seems like a very harsh thing for him to say and not even the theory that it was Belle’s insecurities and anger behind Morpheus’s thoughts would result in that she feels he destroyed his last family. Thinking about this actually makes me feel sorry for Rumple who has no idea why this kid hates him so much or what he did to destroy the relationship. Not excusing his behavior which is just hiding behind the power instead of facing the fear. It would be nice to have these thought processes while watching the show and not after discussing it at a forum.November 7, 2016 at 11:25 am #329982nevermoreParticipant
I think I have another issue with the Rumple storyline, apart from retcons of the character (what @AKA just wrote above), of his relationships, and of the sheer repetitiveness of it all.
It’s the shears. I know I know. I’m like, hung up on these. But seriously, they annoy me: this is another one of those meta-MacGuffins (like the author’s pen and the “put the potential for darkness in the basket” Lily plotline). Essentially, OUAT’s MacGuffins come in two flavors:
– the in-story MacGuffin that allows for some magical gimmick to happen (the sands of avalone, or the magic mushroom, or the curse of shattered sight etc etc)
– the story-influencing MacGuffin that’s supposed to change the narrative itself. That’s sort of what the shears do supposedly — because by cutting off one’s fate, or un-savioring someone, that changes the actual mechanics of the storytelling. And considering their track record with the pen, and the whole concept of the author, the show runners do a disastrous job at handling these. The only person who has any right to have any sort of relationship to that meta-level MacGuffin is Emma, because she is, literally, the embodiment of the story itself.November 7, 2016 at 11:40 am #329983rainbow2Participant
I read a Rumbelle fan post on tumblr saying “what if he wants to use it on belle and on the baby to avoid that they may end dying, he is the DO afterall, he is imortal, if he makes Belle and the kid imortal too, to avoid losing them to death like he lost Bae.”
Which i my opinion would make sense, that is something i always said, unless he is no longer DO, he will be imortal, so he will lose everyone he loves, bc they are not imortals, they wont live beyond the years they have to live.
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