[Demileto]

@KFChimera wrote:

I definitely agree that characters start off as flawed so they can have room to grow. Yet those flaws, and the writers choice to have Emma believe Neal is dead (rather than having the hope he is still alive and refusing to believe it), also opens a door for the audience to root for Emma to fall for someone else, like Hook, who has just grown a little (I”m suddenly thinking of the grinch…his heart grew two sizes!).

Yup, as as much as I love SwanFire I suspect this is is exactly how it’s going to play out. The writers have given reign to Captain Swan speculations long enough for it not to happen at all, but Emma wouldn’t even consider another man so long as she could still hold a candle for her Tallahasse dream with Neal. It’s only natural for them to take this Neal-less time in her life to build up the alternative.

@KFChimera wrote:

I’m still leaning to thinking Neal will eventually grow and overcome his damaged past, and be given the chance to prove his worth so to speak. I could also see the writers ending things with a happy ending for Neal that focuses more on his filial love for Henry than romantic love for Emma. I just don’t think the portal scene, as touching as it was, had enough build up for the kind of “ok, these two are meant to be” conclusion that some draw, and I think that was on purpose. There are lots of things the writers could have done to provide more development and they chose not to do it. They’re probably well aware of those tropes, as this isn’t their first rodeo, and some of them have written quite epic love triangles before. I’d prefer they continue to subvert the trope stuff, like they did with Tamara (hah, talk about a romantic false lead!) and use it in a way that leads a romantic viewer down a garden path only to pull the rug out from under us (oh, he loves her, he’s doing it to help her….oh wait….he’s Bluebeard.). Not that I want Neal to be revealed to be a big bad, because I’m sappy. I just think in terms of storytelling over all, that these writers love to have twists. I’m waiting for what the twist is here, but I am hoping for a happy sappy ending too.

They’re very obviously avoiding a situation that’d make undoubtly clear to the audience who’s Emma’s meant to be with, that’s for sure; I for certain don’t expect a TLK between either Neal/Emma or Hook/Emma anytime soon. That said, what Neal and Emma had definitely doesn’t seem like your run-of-the-mill love story, seeing how they never really could let go of each other despite all the pain to the point of each of them keeping an object that was significant to the relationship they once had – a trait that known true love couples like Snowing and Rumbelle share with Ruth’s Ring and the Chipped Cup. And while there’s always the chance they’ll take their separate ways and just be two good friends who co-parent, I’m confident that a show that’s about hope and has Henry as its main MacGuffin would naturally gravitate towards an ending that better reflects what’d a happy ending for Henry be the most, and The Evil Queen episode clearly shows that involves Neal and Emma being together again.

I’ve always been enamored with the idea that Bae was Henry’s father, but before Tallahasse I’ve always thought that’d come from nothing more than fling between them, especially with the theories that existed back then that he was a married guy. In this context, Emma’s endgame would still be a big blank slate since her relationship with Henry’s father wasn’t that significant. That’s not how it happened, though; in fact, it was quite the opposite. Their love story feels so much like it was an intense one for them to not really letting of each other despite all the years apart that I can’t see Neal not having an unfair advantage over Hook in Emma’s heart. That the majoriy of the main cast would naturally gravitate towards Neal than Hook in the battle for Emma’s heart doesn’t help things either.

Given the way they handled Neal and Emma, I feel like they should’ve instead chosen Regina for a triangle. Despite all her psychological problems, her true love is known to be dead, ensuring her in a most definite way to be a blank slate for a real, “there are no contextual clues that point towards who she’ll end up with” triangle.

[Demileto]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Looks like our predictions about OUATinWL being a mini series were correct. According to Adam, 13 episodes were ordered.

Isn’t 13 what most new shows get, though? They had a lot of confidence to pick up OUATinWL with only 19 minutes of the pilot filmed, sure, but that’s still a tough timeslot for ABC in the recent years, so it’s natural they’d want to wait and see if the show does well.

Also, I believe I’ve heard that a Q&A on the show’s page in Facebook revealed that another season could be made if people liked it. After the original idea to use this to bridge the two halves of ONCE’s season 3 was dropped, who knows what else of the original concept hasn’t also changed as well?

[Demileto]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

If PP is a “good guy” then I’m going to need a really exact and precise reason for why he’s holding crying boys hostage and ripping shadows from them.

Not to mention Felix saying that Bae gets to live due to him not being his future son, clearly implying that Peter Pan intends to kill Henry once he finds him.

@RumplesGirl wrote:

H and K have said they want to do PP and NL different from all the other adaptations. PP in those is the boy who didn’t want to grow up but he’s not evil or bad, he’s just the very embodiment of childhood. However Once’s take is already far darker: older more sinister Lost Ones, crying children, ripping shadows, and even the Pirates seem scared of PP. I don’t think he’s going to be a good guy.

What RumplesGirl said. More to the point, this is an universe where magic comes with a price, and no price is absolutely paid by Peter Pan for using it in his tale. Clearly a change had to happen to fit the rules of Onceverse, and Peter just happens to be the one character normally portrayed as a hero where it isn’t that big a stretch to turn him into a villain due to his personality being defined by so many negative traits.

He’s certain to have a sob story explaining how he became who he is today, but he’s definitely not going to be the good guy we’re used to see.

[Demileto]

@KFChimera wrote:

I do feel the portal scene came up a bit quick in the storytelling, as Neal’s story also involves more than his sacrifice to let Emma be the savior, but also his guilt about that choice, and his relationship with Tamara.

The portal scene surprised even the most rabid SwanFire shipper; NO ONE was expecting them to declare their love for each other this earlier. That said, both Neal and Emma have shown through simple gestures that even though they’ve been apart for 10 years they’ve never truly forgotten each other, so the portal scene wasn’t that big of a leap. It all comes down to them being in this extreme situation: she was this close to lose him, she’d much rather forget all the pain he’d caused and declare her love for him than regret forever that she didn’t do it when she had the chance, knowing she’d never have another.

@KFChimera wrote:

for now, I took his willingness to be with Tamara as proof of his hopelessness of a future with Emma. Of course, from a storytelling perspective, I wonder if that is a sign that his love was not true enough to have faith in Emma? Rumple kicked Belle out of the castle, and that after a partially effective TLK. Snow is willing to drink a potion to forget Charming and he is ready to marry Abigail unless he gets a sign from Snow.

It’s not that, it’s that Neal has self-worth issues that come from being abandoned by both Rumple and Milah and having every single bit moment of happiness constantly being ripped away from him because of magic. Neal’s led a pretty depressing life, so it’s not surprising he lacks the confidence that Emma would give them another shot at a life together if only he had looked for her.

@KFChimera wrote:

In What Happened to Frederick charming says–

Prince Charming: Well, I’m afraid I’m not able to help you, then. My ‘love’ told me in no uncertain terms that she does not feel for me as I do for her. You can’t fight for something that doesn’t exist. So, there’s my tragedy.

Charming then undergoes the task of fighting the Siren, realizes that since he was able to resist, that maybe his love is true and not one-sided and decides to fight for Snow. I would have preferred seeing Neal realize that his love for Tamara was just an illusion without the obvious proof that she’s holding a gun to his face. I would have liked the confessions and the portal better if he had called Tamara on her falseness out on the beach, despite her plausible explanation to be there. Then she could have run into the cannery, and THEN the portal thing could have happened as it did.

I’d have preferred too, but it’s understandable. It’s easier for Charming to have that realization because he’s not psychologically damaged like Neal is. Both Emma and Neal have psychological issues that they must deal with before they can remotely come to the point Snow and Charming are currently. Emma, having been featured in the show since the pilot, is more advanced in that regard than Neal, whose road is just beginning.

[Demileto]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I think we may see that story in S3. My hope is that Emma was looking for Neal. It also makes me wonder, in that same episode, Emma is talking with Ashley and she says

Emma: I was eighteen.

Ashley: When… When you had a kid?

Emma: Yeah. I know what it’s like. Everyone loves to tell you what you can and can’t do, especially with a kid. But ultimately, whatever you’re considering doing or giving up, the choice is yours.

Who was telling Emma to give up her baby? Was she thinking about keeping Henry? Did she go to Tallahassee to find Neal and tell him about Henry?

Oh, nice! I’ve watched that episode only once (I got stoked about OUAT only around the time “A Land Without Magic” aired) and it’s been so long I did not remember that. It does seem like a mysterious someone pushed Emma to give up Henry for adoption, doesn’t it?

[Demileto]

@obisgirl wrote:

Um, what is “TWoP ❓ “

Television Without Pity. Didn’t think there were people who didn’t know that site, sorry. 🙂

[Demileto]

@Profion wrote:

I don´t think Peter Pan could be older than a teen or the whole purpose of having PP as a villain would be gone… He is the boy who never grew, I know they change a lot of things, but having an adult portraying him would be weird.

This is television, where teenage drama shows always feature 20+ years old actors playing the role of 16+ years old characters. It wouldn’t be a surprise at all, especially when you consider 13 years-old Wendy was played by 19 years-old Freya Tingley and 16 years-old Felix was played by 26 years-old Parker Croft.

[Demileto]

@PriceofMagic wrote:

I was surprised that they had Bae and Emma declare their love for each other so early especially if they are planning the show to last several seasons. This could go one of two ways, either they are planning to Ross and Rachel them which means they’ll be on/off again throughout the show because of various obstacles but will end up as end game, or SwanFire isn’t going to be endgame and they are resolving the left over feelings that Emma and Neal have for each other so that Emma can move on to other relationships.

No offense to Captain Swan fans, but It’d be really shocked if SwanFire doesn’t end up together, and I don’t say this because I enjoy Neal/Emma more.

When you think about it, the biggest MacGuffin of the show is Henry; he’s the one that drives pretty much all of the key plots in the show: he brought Emma to Storybrooke, he made Emma believe in the Curse by eating the poisoned pie, he’s what drives Regina to be a better person, he’s what united Rumple and the Charmings in a single family, he’s the boy destined to bring Rumple’s undoing and he’s the boy that Peter Pan wants for some unnamed reason. It’s not a coincidence that those on the main cast of both season who have some level of family bond with Henry are the ones who have been used regularly and that those who haven’t, like Archie, August and Red, are the ones who have fallen to the wayside: ultimately this show is about HENRY’s family, so it’s far more likely that, more than Emma’s, Charming’s, Hook’s or even Rumple’s, the show’s ending would reflect HENRY’s happy ending, and what could Henry want more than his parents being together again?

Of course, as always, your mileage may vary. 🙂

@PriceofMagic wrote:

CaptainSwan has a strong following but could possibly end up as Spuffy did where Emma (Buffy) uses Hook (Spike) and becomes involved in a relationship with him even though her heart will always truly belong to her first love Neal/Bae (Angel).

This seems more likely to me, to be honest.

[Demileto]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Yay! I love Granny and would be very sad not to see her in both shows. She’ll probably threaten to cook the Rabbit because he destroyed her diner.

LOL! So true! 😆

[Demileto]

@AngieBelle wrote:

It really bothers me when people say they want a character dead. It’s one thing to say you are not a fan of a character and don’t care to see them on the show. It’s another thing to wish them dead- particularly when there are others who are actually quite fond of said character.

Agreed. It’s the reason I no longer lurk at ONCE’s TWoP forum, there’s too much character bashing there. 😡

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