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I wonder if Rumpelstiltskin was planning on killing Henry as soon as he learned who he was. He knew that Henry was the one to lead him out in this episode. He said so himself–and he must have known beforehand.
As for how, it is hard for me to believe that Henry would be capable of turning dark. He has been the one that helped Emma bring back happy endings to everyone before the curse broke. He brought Emma to Storybrooke.
It could be that Rumpelstiltskin will sacrifice himself for Henry, but the way the Seer described it–or didn’t describe it–make sit seem like something almost sinister. I know some people keep saying that Henry will be the new Dark One, but that is honestly hard to see.
[adrotate group="5"]I think my favorite clip was the one with Emma chasing Neal/Baelfire and finally seeing him face-to-face. There is such true shock on her face and she looks in pain–the man she thinks left her is back. Her son is related to the very man that she does not trust.
Regarding the dagger, I can totally see Rumpelstiltskin trusting Belle to help him hide the dagger–he loves and trusts her and knows that she will never betray him.
And seems that Captain Hook himself is going to be dumped by both Cora and Regina once they have what they want from him. He wants Rumpelstiltskin dead, whereas Cora and Regina want to control him for their own gain.
But they don’t see that, that is exactly what is keeping Regina their enemy and keeping her in the role as evil.
I haven’t once seen them treat her as still the Evil Queen, other than in The Cricket Game when they believed her of murder. Other than that, they kept their distance. They didn’t want much to do with her. And it isn’t really the townspeople job to hold her hand. Regina chose redemption and she has done much–they are not gonna openly embrace her, at least in the first two weeks of her redemption.
Also, since Regina is obviously planning on getting Henry back with her machinations with Cora, being away from Regina is the best thing for Henry.
I agree. If Regina is going back to her old ways, then she shouldn’t be near Henry. It didn’t take her long to return back–she had one minute been fearful of Cora and what she would do to Henry, while wisely pointing out that Cora was the one that made the case against her regarding Archie’s murder, to suddenly reconciling with her and helping her.
Regina wouldn’t be planning and machinating things with Cora if she had not been kept from Henry in the first place.
And she shouldn’t be working with Cora in the first place. Cora killed Daniel, the man Regina loved. She was willing to force her daughter to marry King Leopold. Regina herself stated that Cora destroys everything and everyone she loves. And yet she is working with her.
It’s not OK for Henry to be her sole motivating factor. Because what happens you remove that motivator? Exactly what happened. She goes back to evil. That’s putting an awful lot of responsibility on an 11 year old boy’s shoulders. That’s basically saying, “Be nice to her, don’t piss her off, don’t turn your back on her, don’t do anything wrong… because if you do, she’ll go back to her old ways.”
Agreed. If Henry is her motivator, it still makes it hard to trust her. She could easily go back to her old ways. No one has a guarentee of their saftey.
Regina needs to be on this redemption arc because of her own remorse, because it’s the right thing to do, and Henry can be that extra push she needs. Not the sole reason for it (as it stands now).
Also agree. 🙂
Question for this statement is. Who is going to deside the correct amount of remorse and responsibility taking ?
When I talk about Regina’s remorse, I mean that she should actually apologize. Admit that what she did was wrong. And realize that, yes she suffered, but her actions caused others to suffer. I’ve not once seen her do that.
Regina believes that and that is what she has gone with her whole life. Because she believes, that is her “role” she will always be stuck in it. Until the day she, or somebody, shows her she CAN change.
Her whole reasoning for changing had been for Henry. Not Snow White or Emma. She should want to change because it is the right thing to do. And she herself later admitted that the case against her was airtight–anyone would have believed it. Cora herself said that Regina did not want them (the whole town bascially) to like her. She did not care for them. She only cared about getting Henry, and she wanted everyone else out of the way.
And Henry himself already showed that he believed in her to be able to change when he hugged her and told her so.
I don’t really like the use of the word abused with Regina. I don’t think she has ever abused him in any way. That word just conjures up things I think most people are uncomfortable with and I don’t think Regina has ever done any of those things to Henry. You’re probably referring to her making Henry think he was nuts, but Regina was trying to make EVERYONE believe that the Enchanted Forest never existed. Henry just happened to be getting too close to the truth.
She made him feel like he was crazy. She may never have hit him, but she hurt him emotionally. That is emotional abuse. And he himself one believed she did not love him–the Pilot episode. She also forced him to come with her with the threat that if he did not, she would kill others–We Are Both.
I know Emma has given Regina a chance, but you indicated that people were being nicer to Regina than she deserves, which says to me that you don’t think people actually should give her a chance. Treating her like garbage is not how you give someone a chance.
When did they treat her as garbage? They never cursed at her–they mostly just avoid her as much as possible. The only time they were rude was in The Cricket Game when Regina came to dinner, and that was understandable seeing as how they still cannot forget. And even then they mostly ignored her. They are never going to be friends with her or even like her. For the most, they keep their distance from her, and she seems to do the same.
I don’t hold Regina responsible for a lot of the stuff Rumpel has gotten her to do. He’s always been much older and wiser than her, and knew exactly how to manipulate the young woman that she was, and we’ve seen him do that with many other characters. His whole scheme with Frankenstein was one big manipulation. When you consider the damage Cora had already done in brainwashing Regina even before Rumpel came into the picture, it’s not surprising some of the bad decisions Regina has made.
She made a choice. She had gotten rid of her mother like she wanted. She did not want anything to do with magic before. She chose to learn. That is all on her. Rumpelstiltskin may have shown her the path, but he didn’t force her to walk it. She had a choice to refuse.
As sad as her circumstances are, she has to be held responsbile for her actions. And so far, she hasn’t really. She has never shown remorse and never once even tried to apolgoize.
I do agree with you that Regina should want to change because it’s the right thing, but even still, if people convince her that she CAN’T change, then she’ll stop trying.
Her whole reasoning with wanting to change was Henry, not because of anyone else. and no one has really brought her down. No one has confronted her except Grumpy in The Cricket Game and he was quickly stopped. Everyone else has just avoided her, and she them.
Believe it or not I don’t hate Regina–I used to like her much more in the beginnng. But after her treatment of The Huntsman and what she had done to Hansel and Gretal and how she never really shows remorse…well, I stopped liking her. I felt bad for her in Stable Boy for a bit.
In Anton’s defense, his actions pale in comparison to Regina’s actions. Also, we haven’t see anyone die because of him–he just seemed to be throwing things and missing badly. 🙂
Regina on the otherhand has killed easily. She has tortured. She has locked people up. The list of her crimes is much longer than Anton’s.
Regina has to be given a chance
Last I checked, Emma was open to giving Regina a chance. She invited the woman to dinner. She refused to believe that Regina murdered Archie until (sadly) she saw Pongo’s memories. Henry himself is trying with Regina–even after she abused him, he still is trying for her.
If Regina feels the world is against her and will never forgive her, then she has no real reason to change. What’s the point?
This is basically saying that if no one is willing to forgive Regina for what she has done, she shouldn’t try to change. Shouldn’t she try to change because it is the right thing? Isn’t she trying to become a better person for Henry?
This is how Cora has tried to corrupt Regina again, to convince her that everyone will never accept or forgive her. Even Mr. Gold has tried to manipulate Regina into doing what he wants by telling her that there is no point in her changing because they’ll never accept her.
Yes, Rumpelstiltskin and Cora have manipulated and Regina. But Regina had gotten rid of her mother, and Rumpelstiltskin never forced her to do anything. He never forced her to go back to a marriage that she knew she would hate. He never forced her to try to kill Snow White and keep The Huntsman prisoner. That was all Regina.
And Snow’s comment was unnecessary, it’s like she’s poking the bear, which struck me as not just mean, but dumb as well.
I do agree with that. Snow White’s comment was not smart. But on the otherhand, she wasn’t cruel or mean to Regina. Seeing as how this is the woman that tried to kill her numerous times, she was actually civil to her.
I’m continually amazed by how coldly Regina gets treated by people on this show. It would be hard to blame her if she went bad again,
You are really surprised? She has murdered and tortured and hurt the people of the town. They don’t have to be nice to her. In fact, compared to what they could be behaving towards her, she is lucky. All they are doing is ignoring her and not talking to her.
And I don’t know what she was expecting…that everyone would love her after a week of trying? That they would smile at her everyday and welcome her to parties?
Bascially, this episode had all her effort going out the window. Trying to kill Prince Charming and Snow White and uncaring about what happens to the town is inexcusable. No matter how sad or angry she is.
Redemption means regretting ones actions and wanting to make up for them. I’ve yet to seen Rumpelstiltskin do either of those.
The whole episode was of him being scared of seeing Baelfire and of not having his magic. That doesn’t count as redemption. That is him being out of his comfort-zone and needing Emma to help him.
I really enjoyed this episode–it was bit more filler than an actual plot-moving episode, but it felt great.
Favorite Moment
* I really loved Emma insisting on bringing Henry with her–she knows Cora is out there, and his safety comes first. Even over the deal with Rumpelstiltskin.
* I did enjoy the scenes with the Giant, and it is great that his character is able to give more to the plot as well. I did feel bad for him when Jack and James were tricking him, and when his brothers were just making fun of him.
* James was a total jerk and it was enjoyable to watch him. He was a character I enjoyed hating. 🙂
* Really loved watching Snow White and Prince Charming fighting together to keep the town stable.
* Both Jennifer Morrison and Robert Carlyle were awesome together. It is hard to imagine these two characters together, but it really works. And it is really great of Emma to help him after he threatened her and her family’s life.
* Grumpy was seriosuly funny in this episode. 🙂 He has some of the best one-liners.
Least Favorite Moment
* Regina felt a bit off in this episode. I don’t know if it is the writing or the acting, but there was something not right about her. At first I had thought that it was simply Cora in disguise, but given her reaction to Henry leaving, I’m certain that was the real Regina.
* Jack herself was not a very interesting person, though that is due to there not being much shown about her. She was greedy and callous, but not much else goes to development with her, which is a shame given the built-up to her with some of the released pictures of her.
* The scene with Greg and Belle felt like it didn’t really belong. It wasn’t bad, it just didn’t feel in place with the whole episode.
I know the reunion isn’t going to be happy, nor am I saying that the reunion between Baelfire and Rumpelstiltskin isn’t important.
What I meant is that I’m not really looking forward to another Rumpelstiltskin flashback episode. We’ve already gotten a total of four episodes of his backstory–I was looking forward to more focus on Baelfire himself and what he had to go through after his father abandoned him.
