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It just seems like people are suggesting that we should care whether or not Emma, a fake person, is happy. That seems crazy to me and shouldn’t take precedents over how the writing of the show is commenting on life and how that is important.
This is the crux of it. The problem is not the fictional characters themselves, but what they REPRESENT. It’s a point that has been made in this discussion, and many times previously too. People, including myself, are disturbed about the messages being sent by this show.
To me, CS reflects and reinforces some socio-political attitudes which I find highly toxic, including (but not limited to):
– An attractive, straight white man who has feelings for a woman is entitled to her love.
– Romantic love takes precedence over other types of love.
– A good couple is a straight, white couple of a similar age and this is the epitome of romantic. The actual behaviour of the couple is secondary to how “cute” they look together.
So basically, the reason I am willing to devote time and energy to this topic, time and time again is because:
1) The behaviour of the characters and the relationship itself glorify socio-political attitudes which are toxic.
2) I believe that media reflects and reinforces social attitudes, and thus deserves criticism when promoting unhealthy messages.
It has nothing to do with picking on men in leather. Nor is it about being bitter that the fictional heroine is paired with someone with Colin O’Donohue’s face instead of MRJ’s face.
My question to non-CS fans who nevertheless feel the need to defend Emma, Hook and CS is this: Which part of the above argument do you disagree with? I am genuinely curious to know. Do you simply interpret their behaviour differently and not see it as any way unhealthy? Do you disagree that a show can have any effect on societal attitudes, detrimental or otherwise?
You say you care about Emma. Does she look happy to you? Because to me, she looks like death and acts like a pod person. Do you really want a woman you care about to be in a relationship where lack of trust is a big issue? A relationship which brings out her selfish side and a host of behaviours that make her seem codependent? Conversely, if Hook were a man you cared about, would you want him in a relationship where his partner disregards his dying wishes TWICE? Turns him into something he hates because SHE doesn’t want to lose him? Rifles through his possesions? These questions are not intended to be rhetorical. I am genuinely curious to know how you reconcile these behaviours into a picture that suggests a happy relationship – one that actually deserves to be glorified.
[adrotate group="5"]You might see the hook shaped as a swan. You might also see it as a giant question mark. The only definite thing there is Hook’s hook, with a couple of rings on it. Remove the rings and it would pretty much be the poster for “Once Upon a Hook”.
Why are there people who still like this show? I’m seriously asking this show is objectively awful.
Because they like seeing Emma and Hook together. The OUAT Facebook page is filled with comments about how “cute” Emma and Hook are together, how important it is that they reunite etc etc. It’s the only thing that matters to them. The other viewers are mostly those who are trying to see it through out of a sense of loyalty to what the show once was. As for me, I’ve been done for a while now.
Hm. That’s fairly odd since it’s not happening to me–is anyone else having this problem?
It’s happened to me, several times, starting maybe a couple of months ago. Another thing that sometimes happens is that when I edit my post, the edit is not applied.
I swear if there’s a button down in that bunker that they have to push every 108 mins…LOL
And if there is, you just KNOW that Jaha will be the one pushing it. 😉
And with Bellamy, it’s like the writers don’t really know what to do with him. He can’t be as strong a leader as Clarke because this is largely her show and her story but with Octavia gone, Bellamy’s “center” is removed and he’s just floating aimlessly.
I do wish they’d develop Bellamy more. Having said that, at least they haven’t made the show all about him and pushed Clarke into the background, or changed her to make him look good, or got them together to make her his salvation. Low standards I know, but still.
When Mt Weather was doing roughly the same thing to Clarke’s crew, look how she handled it (boom). Now she’s using their same ends-justifying-the-means mentality for her own people.
Has Clarke claimed the moral high ground over Mt Weather since then though? There are two definitions of “right” here.
1) Morally right
2) The best way for our people to survive
Raven was talking about 1), but I’ve always thought that Clarke herself justifies her decision as “might is right and it was us or them”. Which is difficult to argue with, in this cutthroat world. But if there is any leeway at all, 1) should be considered. And they do, which is a mark of their humanity.
Exactly, there is something to be said for predictability. It is called character consistency. Like i thought Clarke would take the nightblood because she wouldn’t want to harm the others and that is what she did. It makes perfect sense to me that she would do that. And yet, they still did a great job showing her make that choice. I thought it was really well done as well.
Agreed. At the end of the day, viewers will appreciate character consistency more than some random, shocking twist. Looking at you A & E.
I think Jasper’s characterization makes sense. I just think it is boring.
Jasper’s character or his philosophy about life?
A solid episode. Not my favourite, but definitely thought provoking.
– It took me a few scenes to understand what was going on with the Jaha/Kane/Monty storyline. But it got interesting. The bunker, the locked door and Jaha’s “faith” – anyone else getting flashbacks to a certain island?
– I still don’t understand why they needed the flamekeeper for all of this.
– Everything happening in Becca’s lab was INTENSE. Great conflict, great dialogue. The moral conundrum, though rehashed, held my interest. Perhaps because in this episode, unlike the last one, it moved out of the abstract sphere into painful reality involving well known characters.
– It was nice to see Lexa reincarnate in Roan’s body to give Clarke her usual, encourging speeches about leadership. She also name dropped herself, which was nice.
– I loved seeing Luna and Roan clash. I’m becoming more and more fond of Luna, but I am still conflicted about her leadership. Does Luna have what it takes to save her people? I think not. She’d be wonderful – just and compassionate – in a time of peace, but I don’t think she can do what it takes during a crisis.
– Was Clarke right in injecting herself? Being Clarke, it was the only option, really. But if she dies, who performs emergency medical procedures, creates battle strategies, makes tough decisions, gains enemies’ respect and negotiates peace?
– Jasper has moved from being the trickster into a full blown antagonist, albeit a sympathetic one. Not that I like Jasper – he’s still annoying. But his philosophy has merit. Everyone else is so busy running around trying to survive that nobody has asked the question: is this life worth living? And if the answer is “no” for some, then I can sympathise. Actually, a lot of this point may be more relevant to next week’s episode.
– Jasper himself was as selfish and escapist as he’s been all season. He strode out of the compound knowing full well that Bellamy would follow. It didn’t seem to occur to him that although he might not value life, Bellamy might value his. Jasper had a point about making the most of the remaining time, but he lost me when he revealed that his preferred use of this time was to get high. Frankly, I was shocked and disappointed when Bellamy went along with this plan.
– This brings me to something about Bellamy – he doesn’t have a strong sense of self, beyond “My sister, my responsibility” and “I have to protect my people”. Because of this, he easily falls in line behind other strong personalities, like Clarke or Pike. Jasper’s little speech hit Bellamy in his weak spot. While he’s brilliant at ‘in the moment survival’, Bellamy doesn’t really have a vision of what life should, or could be. This isn’t a judgement of him; with his upbringing, it’s not surprising that he’d be this way. But it does make him an incomplete leader, and dangerously susceptible to influence.
– So, Clarke’s a nightblood. How does everyone feel about this?
I was expecting big things from ‘Gimme Shelter’ thanks to the Hypable preview, but it was a slight let down. Not bad, just not great.
– Octavia and Ilian got together – I knew it! Octavia’s made some progress in processing her grief, so good for her. I wonder where this new path will take her (apart from Ilian’s farm).
– The black rain storyline was disappointing. I would have cared more about the Harper stuff if I’d actually known the man she was crying over. Bellamy’s desperate attempt to save people was…well, it got boring for me. We already know about Bellamy’s saviour complex. It was nice that Kane felt so protective of Bellamy, but the rest of the dialogue was a drag (apart from ‘I’m proud of you’). People acting irrationally due to issues, and having to be talked down gets old pretty quickly.
– Abby and Kane’s conversation was alright, but there was nothing new there either. We’ve established many times over that you have to do unpleasant things to survive. The very fact that Abby feels repulsed is proof that she’s not losing her humanity. So just grit your teeth and do it Abby. Or EVERYONE dies. The conversation felt more like Abby seeking validation than anything else.
– The best parts of this episode were the domestic moments with Clarke, Emori and Murphy. Clarke had a relatively stress free time this episode :O! It was wonderful to see her put her feet up for a well deserved moment, but it was quite literally just a moment, as a banging window brought back the usual violence and life and death decisions. Oh, and Murphy cooking? ‘The 100’ writers have been delving into some cute fanfics, that’s for sure.
– The problem with Emori’s backstory was that it was a whole lot of exposition dumped on us very suddenly. No show, all tell. I felt like I couldn’t really connect to it, or to her.
– These people are smart, so it’s astonishing that they believe that one test subject will be enough. Are they really expecting the first or second trial to be successful?
‘We will rise’ – was another excellent episode. This is now my S4 favourite.
– Loved the Luna, Raven, Murphy team up. Where were Abbey, Jackson and Emori? Who cares? I certainly didn’t.
– Luna displayed some much needed depth in this episode. We knew she was a peace maker by nature, but this is the first time we really got to SEE it.
– Murphy trying to soothe himself with a mistranslated grounder phrase was as touching as it was funny. Beautifully raw, beautifully vulnerable.
– What will happen to Raven now? This doesn’t look good. They can’t manage without her. If she’s incapacitated, they’ll all be reduced to drinking large quantities of nettle leaf tea and hoping for the best!
– The Arkadia storyline with Skaikru wanting revenge against Ilian was brilliant. It’s now been firmly established that Skaikru are just as blood thirsty as their terrestrial brethren. Oh, and Daddy Miller disappointed me. How could he be on the mob’s side?
– Octavia’s cold bloodedness really hit home for the first time. The flashbacks to Lincoln were heartbreaking. I still think she and Ilian will get together at some point.
– Bellamy and Clarke’s conversation about Octavia was along the same lines as about a million other TV convos – except that this one was about a brother-sister relationship, rather than a romantic one. Big kudos.
– Niylah, with her kindness, is like a light in the darkness. I agree with Clarke. Niylah needs to stay and be part of the gang for ever.
– The Niylarke scene was sweet and realistic and a nice tribute to Lexa. Niylah is obviously a great source of comfort for Clarke, though not a long term prospect. Again, she must have a big heart because she was fine with the fact that it was basically a threesome, what with Lexa’s drawing watching over them from a prominent position.
– Finally, we got some fantastic dialogue in this episode. Thought provoking, character building, relationship defining, tension sparking dialogue. Great job writers!
This reveal is just gross. A show that champions families is showing its premier family to be built on a web of lies and murder? I know it’s always been like this, what with Regina’s past crimes and all, but now it’s gone up another level. It really is drama for drama’s sake, with a good dose of ‘ick’ factor thrown in. Otherwise, I can’t begin to fathom what point they are trying to make here.
So the show got renewed for Season 5 – how do people feel about this? I have mixed feelings. I can’t help but feel that the show is past its peak by this point. S4 has felt unusually flat. So I don’t want them to push the story beyond its natural progression until the plot feels increasingly contrived. However, I do still care about the characters. Overall, I’m willing to keep an open mind, but not allowing myself to have any sort of expectations.
