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There are a lot of moving parts, but based on everything Jennifer said with wanting to get back to her life and all that, i really think that she was out long before they told us. I kind of wonder if they even really approached her, the way that she talked in some interviews made it seem like there weren’t even real talks. I think that it was over long before we were told, but they were allowed to pitch another season and so they did and got it, but everyone already had one foot out the door at that time because they knew for so long that Ginny and Josh and Jennifer were out and thought that they would get cancelled because of it.
I don’t really think we will ever know.
[adrotate group="5"]I think they gave up on Ouat during Season 6. They really thought that were going to be cancelled then. They knew that they were losing Ginny and Josh and weren’t going to give Jennifer a reason to stay.
Just think about all the stuff we always complained about. How did their government work in the Enchanted Forest? Was Snow’s kingdom in charge of the other kingdoms or were they all separate little city states? In Storybrooke where did they get their food? Where did they get their gas? Why are there empty houses? How did their society not just completely deteriorate because everyone quit their jobs? With language, the characters constantly calling each other their cursed names and how in the early seasons Snow would say stuff like worry not or talk about the gods, but that happened like twice and that was the end of anything interesting language wise. There seems to be no religion except that there was a guy that married Snow and Charming. How do the duke and the royal navy’s kingdoms during Rumpel and Hook’s time connect to the kingdom’s now? Think about all the different creatures. The werewolves? The ogres? The dwarfs? The fairies? Seriously, how did they never really explain anything about the fairies except that they exist.
For me, they just can’t do that. I think about the show The 100, which is not a perfect show. It has some acting problems and character problems and directing problems, but the world building on that show is so amazing. They have another language. Each of the clans dresses differently. The mountain men dress and spoke differently. They have different weapons. The skaikru have language things like go float yourself, or may we meet again, different words they say when someone dies. The grounders definitely have a religion and have religious leaders and such. They talk about where they get their food and their weapons and their tech all the time because it is important. They have shown their various systems of government and leadership over the different groups, on the ring, in Polis, in Arkadia, and now with Octavia. And all of that isn’t what the show is about, it is the world in which the show exists, and it makes the world feel real, and it is so important because when it isn’t there then a show just doesn’t work, in my opinion.
I sorta agree/disagree with both of your points, HJ and Gaultheria. I think they’re good at worldbuilding in short bursts They aren’t the sort of writers who can maintain a lengthy story that is intricate and has to have established rules in order for the story to flow. But if you think of each arc and season as its own thing and not connected to any other arcs or seasons, they no they aren’t terrible.
I think anyone would have trouble keeping a story premise going for seven years, but that’s not an issue if it gets reset every episode.
And this is where I disagree with you. Look at fantasy novelists who spend years, decades, heck even entire careers in one world that must be carefully maintained in order for the story to progress from A to Z. And usually that’s not collaborative, JKR for instance did not have a writing partner. A and E have each other and entire room full of other writers. TV and books are different mediums but good writers should flesh out their world well in advanced, which is why I think S1 is the most structurally sound–they had years to plot that one. S2 and S3 to an extent benefit from the long prep period for S1. As we got closer to the end, that’s when the cracks began to show and then fall to pieces utterly.
I don’t think the half season arcs are well put together. That was one of the ways in which i really thought that the show was completely falling apart. The first couple episodes were usually okay of each arc, then like one in the middle and then sometimes the end connected to the beginning, but not always. The whole rest of an arc would many times be redundant and boring. Often the ending would be a trick instead of what the arc was building towards which is just bad writing because once you know the trick with no build there is nothing to go back and rewatch and find the hints about because there was no build, there were no hints. The long season arcs were much better on this show, meaning Season 1 and 2.
For me, the biggest change for the half season arcs were that they started giving large portions of the screen time to completely pointless characters. In the first season, it was only Red and Grumpy that got a random episode, all the rest were focused on the regular characters and the development of those characters. They then started giving all this screen time to characters that had no connection to the main characters instead of introducing characters that were going through the same thing that our characters were going through. They gave a bunch of screen time to villains, that always just ended up dead and we always knew they would end up dead. The show just stopped having character development and therefore had no plot. This show hasn’t had a plot in years.
If the writers can’t write character development and can’t write story and can’t write and keep their world building, then they are done. Those are the three things and if they can’t do any of them well then they just need to stop. I actually think it is story they do the best. The idea of let’s make Emma the dark one or showing Emma’s past via Lily or making the dark one dagger be Excalibur or let Emma interact with Elsa who felt like an outcast are all pretty good ideas. The problem is that they have to then be what would Emma do here, what would be her struggles, how would Snow react to Emma being the dark one, and ask all those questions for all the regulars and sort of work out from there and build the narrative around that, and choose what each episode is about based on those questions, and build the world and the objects in the story around the answers to those questions. These writers cannot do that.
I think there three best world building things were probably the apple with the bite in it coming through the hatter’s hat and being used to try and curse Emma. That hatter’s hat being a portal though that was sort of inconsistent and never properly explained. Those and the poppy’s will make you sleep like from Wizard of Oz though that isn’t really something they came up with. They never really did anything to build a language or a culture or any sort of religion or even differences in culture between realms or just anything like that at all. Even the way characters dressed was inconsistent to the world build at times.
World building is hard too. It is so very hard, but the world never felt real, it never felt peopled, because they never built the world. I really think the reason the show lasted this long was entirely on the help they were given in building the world and the characters and the stories in Season 1. They were completely unable to deepen the world build or to figure out what their characters would do next and develop them that way or to even figure out the basic structure of the beginning, the middle, and the end of a story. For me, they can’t be unable to do all of those things and run a show.
They are fine writers for episodes. They are terrible show runners. They should not be in charge of a show ever again. I think they are terrible at world building and character building and story building. They might do better at a show where they don’t have to worry about continuity of characters and story, but i will never watch a show that they show run ever again.
My favorite episode is Episode 122, the finale of Season There was such a good build to that moment and Henry and Emma being the true loves kiss that breaks the curse was great. Magic coming to Storybrooke. Regina being tossed off. Snow and Charming finally having their memories. Emma with a sword and a gun, fighting a dragon. Emma and Regina finally with their memories going at each other. It was just great and it was how a story should be built and how an ending can be so very satisfying and yet still leave an opening for the next arc.
The worst episode, i think i have to pick two. The very last episode 722 was, in my opinion, absolutely terrible and i have said it all elsewhere, but it is just the culmination of everything that is so terrible about this show for me. All of the characters have fallen so far. Emma pretty much barefoot, married, and pregnant with Hook which is disgusting. Fake Henry was wearing the sheriffs badge, so Emma may not even have a job anymore. They are pretending that Regina is some sort of leader which was Emma’s job. Regina as some sort of competent, respected leader and having fake Henry call her mother makes zero sense. Snow and Charming have no part and are not involved in anything as far as we know. Rumpel has been completely disconnected from the family in every way. No mention of Bae, no mention of being Henry’s grandfather, Belle dead, and now Rumpel dead. The timeline shot, the plot nonexistent, and everyone out of character to such an extreme as to be completely unrecognizable as the characters they started as.
The second worst episode would be episode 202, we are both. That plot point makes no sense. They are not both. They are themselves. They are the people they grew up to be and the people they found themselves as and that is their real selves, their fairytale selves, not their fake, hazy memory selves. The whole point was to eventually see the fairytale characters in the real world and we never really got that. This was the first episode with no Emma, or just one scene at the end. This was the first time the show did not work. Disconnecting Emma and Snow from Regina was such a huge mistake that the show never recovered from it. I was so looking forward to seeing Emma interact with everyone now that everyone had their memories and then that was immediately taken away with Emma’s removal from Storybrooke. This is when they first opened the door to Regina being part of the group. People kept calling Regina, Henry’s mom, to the point of confusion. The use of the fake names. This episode is really just the beginning of the end. It is the first time that such huge mistakes were made and the show started its slow downward spiral to what it became.
Season 1 is the only good season of this show.
Favorite major character. Emma was the most realistic and flawed and powerful and strong character. Real Emma, not barefoot and pregnant Emma. Least favorite character. I really dislike the time spent on Rumpel, but Hook ruined my favorite character, so Hook. Rumpel was only ruined by what people thought was happening with him and by the loss of Bae and the disconnection from the family. Hook was boring and was never Emma’s equal and was never good enough for her and should have died in Season 3.
Favorite minor character. Red and Mulan. I guess they were regulars, but they were never given the time. They were both complicated and flawed and could have had great stories if they were actually shown. Least favorite minor character. Arthur was a real waste of screentime. There were so many characters whose stories were hinted at, but were never shown in the right way. That is what i dislike more then the characters.
There is no success here, in my opinion. The biggest mistake was not writing for the characters, as in the characters were written out of character all the time. They needed to allow the characters to react to things and that be the plot and they never did. They needed to show not tell. They needed to write down their timeline. They needed to keep track of the last things the characters did.
I would not recommend this show to anyone. As much as i like Season 1, Season 2 and the rest are so disappointing, that there is no getting over it. There are episodes i liked in some of the later seasons, but it still isn’t worth it.
Ouat’s legacy is how not to write a show.
Fail.
For me, there is just no way to explain it away. Even if we explain away one part of the timeline problem, there is still ten more timeline problems that don’t fit the explanation. This episode really created so many more problems with one of the easiest parts of the show to be consistent with. They really just needed to write it down and they didn’t.
This also, as i said, in no way helps explain why they didn’t call Emma and Snow for help earlier in the season. This was no explanation.
It does matter though. It matters a great deal. In the early seasons, the time between realms was always consistent. It was only later when they started playing fast and loose with these things, pretending that the curse time didn’t happen in some places, messing up different character’s ages, all sorts of things. The inconsistencies in the story with the character’s behaviors and with the timeline is so bad that it is all i can think about. People don’t act like this. No one is the right age. There are three or four of everyone except Emma. They then expect us to care about young fake Henry when i just don’t because he is no one to me, just like fake Hook is no one to me. They may look like other characters, but they are no one. Emma not aging and having a baby at fifty-five doesn’t work for me.
It is all illogical and the very foundation of the story has completely fallen apart. Also, the writers said wait til the end of the season. It will all make sense if you just wait. This explanation is not even remotely a good reason as to why Emma, Snow, and Charming weren’t called and asked for help much earlier in the season. They could do some sort of multiple timeline thing like Fringe or Back to the Future, but they didn’t actually say that was what was happening. I wouldn’t want that to happen even a little bit. They just aren’t going to explain it. Here is a load of nonsense. Like it. That is what they said.
Well, this is their original work if that is what you mean, but what Ouat is now has no relations to the original concept of the show.
Nothing about this show is remotely the writers original vision. They haven’t stayed true to their vision since Season 2.
The only positive thing was Robyn and Alice. They were the best thing about this episode and i wish they had been given a larger role in this season without having to be extensions of their parents problems.
