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Seriously? The Neal vs Hook debate AGAIN?
In my opinion, the only reason Henry didn’t say “and my dad” is because time was of the essence. Henry knew he already had Hook considering his insane story might be true, and he knew tossing in what Hook would feel was a huge compliment would seal the deal and get them going. Was Henry really supposed to include ‘and my dad, Neal, but he’s also Baelfire, the Dark One’s son, but you probably don’t know that because it’s unclear whether the Milah story even happened in this universe, blah blah blah’. They didn’t have time for a family history lesson, they had to go. Debating who taught Henry how to do something more is, frankly, ridiculous, and definitely not something the writers of the show are concentrating on.
I’m sorry, but every compliment a character, or the writers, give Hook is NOT a jab at Neal. And yet, this concept is brought up in so many ‘neutral’ threads, and it’s alienated a ton of people. I was looking forward to being able to share my likes and dislikes about the episodes and see what others thought, but after once again encountering ‘the debate’, I just don’t have the energy. Rant over.
[adrotate group="5"]And…yes I’m aware I just posted into a great abyss and that’s an exercise in futility…but I had to say it. Even when it falls on…well, no ears.
Ok, if Obisgirl has given up then I think it is really is the end. I’m saddened but I have to say when Tumblr feels less toxic and more welcoming, that’s saying a lot.
Curiously, you think anyone’s even noticed the nastiness has bumped an entire group of people off the forum…or are they throwing a party that we’re pretty much gone? I’m thinking #2. And that is what saddens me the most.
Aw man I just lost my post! Stinkin phones. Ok bare bones – someone remind me, do we know of any of the Dark Ones ever actually trying to kill themselves? I know the last pretty much set Rumple up to kill him but that’s not exactly the same as plunging the dagger into your own heart. I’m thinking that’s the key if Emma does try to sacrifice herself. Or what happens if the product of true love – the epitome of white magic, if you will – attempts it.
As far as Rumbelle goes, I get the dissenting opinions, but I think if you strip my last comment to simply Rumple has to truly want to redeem himself and be prepared to give up his power for Belle – and I do think he can get there eventually – then there will be hope for Rumbelle
Ok, so I’m one of the folks that does not believe Rumple’s going to die at the end of this season…or next season. I also don’t believe this is the end of Rumbelle.
I do think they’re setting Rumple up to be the next big bad. Rumple has been lost since Bae’s death. And I think what we’ve seen is the beginning of that spiral – not really dealing with his son’s death, promising to avenge his death when Bae very likely would never want that, and the entire demise of Rumbelle. Rumple’s obsessed with power and magic, but he is still a very weak individual – his choice to become the Dark One, his chosing his magic over Belle numerous times have shown us that. But though he’s close right now, I think he hasn’t quite hit rock bottom yet. That is what I think the writers are setting us up for. I’m thinking Rumple doesn’t die, but he does lose his magic and power. I think, for Rumple, that’s a fate worse than death.
I think Rumple’s redemption arc really hasn’t even started. I think we’ve seen some good progress with characters like Hook and Regina, but for every step forward Rumple takes, he’s still taking 2 steps back. So I think Rumple needs to truly redeem himself before Rumbelle has a chance, but I do think, once Rumple hits that bottom and finally faces himself without the magic and power that’s corrupted him for so long, Belle will be there to help him find his way. We saw Belle finally having to come to terms with the fact that Rumple has done bad things, when she is the one directly affected by his actions. And we saw Belle walk away, but the scene in the store left me feeling like Belle is ready to see Rumple for who he really is, not who she wants him or believes he can be. And now that she’s maybe looking at him and their relationship a little more rationally and realistically, she can actually give Rumple the help she felt she was giving when she continued to almost blindly have faith in him.
So, that’s my thoughts in a not-so-nutshell. And I’m hoping my headcannon proves right because that’s the Rumbelle I would love to see! (And since I’m one who personally loves Rumple when he’s at his worst, and thinks Belle deserved better until she finally fought back, therefore couldn’t really get completely behind Rumbelle, that’s saying a lot!)
A question before formulating an opinion…what’s with all the Rumple’s dying/Bobby wants off the show stuff coming from? The current storyline or something read or just speculation?
Very nice start, @POM. And I agree, the concepts of either Emma thinks more is going on between Milah and Hook, or Milah feels like Emma has ‘stolen’ Hook work better than Hook actually cheating.
Haha, as pro-CS as I am, I also love the idea of TinkerHook (my backup ship in case A&E lost their minds and for some reason didn’t proceed with CS – yeah right!). I think theirs was a bit of a friends with benefits type of relationship. I definitely don’t see them as having a ‘brother/sister’ relationship, but I can see them as being real friends who maybe blurred the lines a little in the past.
My thoughts on the whole Hook/Milah thing…ok, I don’t hate Milah. I do, as a mother, have a REALLY hard time liking her, though. I know she was miserable, begged Rumple to leave with her before she left with Hook, etc etc, but there’s no way I could ever leave my child, especially for a romantic relationship. And, I’m not sure I think Milah did think she was in love with Hook when she left so much as both Milah and Hook were looking for someone to save them – Hook from the pain of losing Liam and Milah from Rumple. I do, of course, believe they did grow to love each other.
The 300 years of revenge part…now see, that’s where I’m not 100% positive Killian’s quest was always pure. I don’t think he realized when he took off for Neverland it was going to take 3 centuries for him to return. And while in NL, it almost became cyclical – he wanted revenge, nothing changes in NL so there’s no way to move on from that state, Pan constantly using that desire to get Hook to do his bidding – then meeting Milah’s son in NL brought up all of those conflicting feelings all over again…if Hook wasn’t in NL but was able to live, say, in the EF or even our land for 300 years, would he really have spent that time searching for revenge, or would he have learned how to heal? I think the way he fell for Emma, the intensity and quickness of it, yes, Hook was still talking revenge but really, I think he was ready to move on. He gave up that revenge so quickly and easily, I think the real quest to kill Rumple was over long before he finally got the opportunity to act on it.
hey all!
Wow, the thread “exploded” over the last few days! Well, in comparison to lately. I, too, have pretty much given up on the site as a whole, the negativity is a little out of control. There’s concrit and then there’s negativity. I actually have a tumblr – and I think actually follow all/most of you! Maybe someday I’ll actually post stuff on it…
And don’t forget to definitely check out everyone’s fanfiction on ff.net and ao3. Obis’ latest chapter of her current story is up — and oh my god, I’m so intrigued by how her story’s going to continue! You had me at the edge of my seat at the end!
POM – interesting idea. I would warn you though, that particular storyline is going to really hit a nerve with CSers, even if that’s not the point (and I’m sure it isn’t, especially if, like you said it’s only one part of a larger storyline). Like any other ship CSers are extremely sensitive toward their characters, so there could be backlash depending on the audience. (And I only say that because I wouldn’t want you to feel attacked in any way but you know how our fandom is sometimes). If it’s well written, tight and utterly important to the overally storyline, CSers could follow but it’s a tricky line to walk. But I definitely want to know when/where you post because the idea of the story being about all of the characters, especially Henry, definitely sounds great!
As to how it ends, I really don’t know. In my opinion, on the show, Milah could come strolling down the street and though Hook would be happy she’s alive, I don’t believe he’d feel there’s even a choice to be made. Emma is it. I personally could get why Emma might not want to jump into a physical relationship, but I also don’t believe for a second Hook would pressure her or be upset about that – how he treats women then and now, especially Emma, is integral to his character progression, so I don’t think he’d be unfaithful no matter the situation. Hook spent 300 years wanting to avenge Milah’s death (have a whole other opinion on that but way off topic!) – but he wasn’t celibate. Emma and Hook were never even technically in a relationship when he got sent back to the EF, but they made it clear he didn’t even look at another woman, much less ‘spend time’ with one.
Ok all, now I need to make sure I’m following you all on tumblr! Obisgirl, I know you’ve posted it a few times, but can you post the link for the CS chat you like again? 🙂
Aww, Henry sounded…like such a teenager with that dropped-voice “whoa”. I felt like the whole scene seemed like a ruse between Henry and Regina to fool Cruella and Mal. I’m fairly certain Henry’s in on the entirety of the plan; otherwise, the bonding experience that Operation…ugh, Mongoose gives Henry and Regina (and that I think is equally or even more important to Regina than finding Robin) is totally destroyed.
Totally agree with those who said David & Snow’s experiences were different and showed different “Emmas” were based on Snow & David projecting what the expected, or wanted, to see. Snow has to see Emma as evil, because otherwise she’d have to deal with the guilt I’m sure she feels by doing what they did to Mal. I think what Snow and David need to realize is that everyone is born with the potential to be good or evil, whether that person is Emma or Mal’s child. I think Emma will be tempted, but she and the others around her will have to learn that ‘evil isn’t born, it’s made’ and sooner than later she’ll come around before becoming fully enveloped in the dark.
OUAT, in my opinion, works best when it’s over the top, to the point of being tongue in cheek. I mean, it’s a tv show about fairy tales and magic and things that go bump in the night…if I wanted reality, this is not the show I’d turn to. So…I agree with Keb and the others that said it – bring on the camp.
(But yeah…dunno how knocking back a shot proves your villainy….)
(And seriously, Mal’s outfit…been there, done that with Zelena…I didn’t really like it the 1st time around, the 2nd doesn’t make it better…)
