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Keb
ParticipantI don’t think this season was awful at all. Last year I loved the show; this year I became rabidly obsessed. There were things I didn’t like, but so much more I loved.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
May 16, 2013 at 1:06 am in reply to: Master Manipulation. Peter > Blue > Rumple > Cora > Regina #194733Keb
ParticipantWell, Regina’s very impulsive; Cora and Rumple less so. So their manipulations are far more effective. Rumple’s goal was always finding his son–everything else was just in service of that–and because his goal was so focused it was easier for him to make long-term, cool-headed decisions most of the time. Cora’s goals were a little muddier–she wanted vengeance, and power, and for her daughter to be queen, but because she didn’t have a heart, she was less impulsive. Regina’s goals were kind of all over the map, reflecting her impulsive nature; she wanted to escape her mother’s influence as a youth, she wanted to learn magic during her marriage, she wanted revenge on Snow White which became a major goal of hers in which gaining power became a tool–but the exact revenge that she wanted varied from day to day–and she wants her son to herself now (but at all if not all to herself). It’s less of a laser beam for her and more of a cloud.
But yes, Regina -is- manipulative in her own way. She’s just not as good at it because she’s not as good at focusing her goals, or understanding other people. Rumple’s got a keen insight into people’s motivations (being 300 years old helps), which he uses carefully. He can work out what you want most and use that to his advantage. Regina can’t even figure out why a kid (Hansel, Gretel, Owen–not touching on Henry, who rightly sees her as one of his parents) would want to be with his or her own parents instead of her, or why the people would support a kind princess instead of a queen who kills entire villages. It just goes completely over her head. She does, however, understand the pain of losing one’s true love, and she uses THAT as a tool against both Snow and Rumple–effectively.
I will argue strongly that on screen, at least, we’ve seen Cora manipulate Rumple a lot, and nothing of him manipulating her at all. She may have actually loved him, but she was the one suggesting changes in the contract initially (to be fair, he’s the one who jumped at the idea of having his own child, but she kinda planted the idea in his head), she was the one who decided to pull out her own heart and leave him (may or may not have been any manipulation there, but he sure thought there was), and she manipulated the heck out of Snow to get the dagger (and I half wonder if she was hoping to manipulate Rumple from afar to get it–cuz that’s how it worked out). Oh, and she gave him the globe with THE most manipulative little speech, which did prompt him to leave town right away despite what had happened to Bae and gave her time to get to Regina without interference from him.
I don’t think Cora’s the same mastermind at it that Rumple is, but she’s very skilled at knowing the right strings to pull–on him, on Snow, on Regina, on Hook–and incredibly cruel about it, too. I’m just not sure a hierarchy is appropriate here. And I really don’t see anything of Rumple manipulating Cora as of yet. At all. Unless perhaps you count his final question to her to get two more seconds before she killed him.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantYou wind up learning a lot of this by heart when you’re timelining it. But I do make mistakes!
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantHook was in cohoots with Cora and Regina when Rumple left town to find Neal. Regina was told by the Charmings that Gold was off finding his son, and Regina had tapped the Charmings’ phone line. So it makes sense for both her and Hook to know that the new guy was Neal and also Rumple’s son. Also, Hook followed Rumple to Manhattan and plausibly had some help with that–Tamara? At any rate, he was also working with Tamara, who was Neal’s fake fiance. So he had lots of ways to find out that Neal = Bae.
The revelation for both of them was that Henry was Bae’s son–Rumple told Regina, and Emma told Hook. That we saw on screen.
Charming and Snow knowing about the Dark One’s dagger was always a bit of a mystery, but I’m blaming Blue for that one. They DID plot with Blue (and Ella, Thomas, and the Dwarves) to lock Rumple up back in FTL. I think Blue would know about the dagger, possibly, and that information might have come up as they were figuring out how you lock up The Dark One. That’s about the best excuse I can come up with for why the two idiots knew. (I love them but they earn the title at times.)
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantWell, at least you wouldn’t -knowingly- cheat or stray. Lacey did kiss Keith (ew, almost to the same degree as the Cora-Rumple kiss, but he was kind of a victim there). And MM and David under the curse had their own share of cheatingness (all hugely complicated by the fact they were cursed, of course–who WAS David actually cheating on, Kathryn or MM?).
But I think the reason that Cora felt she had to kill Daniel was that a person wouldn’t willingly leave her true love for another. The times when Snowing did, they were doing it to save the other’s life, compelled by outside forces, just as when Rumple pushes Belle away it’s usually to protect her. And for all Hook’s suggestive comments, I get the feeling that during the time he was with Milah, he didn’t even -see- other women that way.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantYeah, but usually there’s something in it for him. And that’s not weird. This one felt…weird.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantBelle’s never show any interest in any other guy. She didn’t even bat an eye at Hook. And she not only loves Rumple, she KNOWS it’s true love with him. Romantic as she is, she’d never settle for less at this point. She would never jeopardize that with his son, of all people.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantYeah, ok, so I updated with the new sheet added. New sheet is just the full timeline in episode/scene order. Some of the additional stuff (people’s births for example) winds up at the end as a result. It’s not perfectly tidy, but it does what you wanted.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantActually, yes, episode order is in the master timeline. That was a recent addition. If you download the spreadsheet you can manipulate the order of it by using the data-sort function and sorting it by first episode # (column D) and then Episode Scene Order (it’s column E). If you then want to put it back in order, you should be able to use one of the three year columns (Emma years or Rumple years are the easiest, cuz Curse Years may not math properly), followed by the day and day-of-order columns. I haven’t actually tried this, though. I just set it up so that it -should- work.
…Actually, there’s no reason I couldn’t do the manipulation myself and add a page to the spreadsheet. It’s just that it would have to be updated too whenever I find a mistake or add a new episode (the latter of which is unlikely until autumn now for obvious reasons).
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantI suppose that’s possible. And it’s a small town–almost everything seems to be in close proximity. I mean, it took David like three minutes to find Snow after she gave Regina Cora’s heart? I think Rumple came out the back door which is apparently across the street from the library (I want a real map so badly…).
It is true that Rumple has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. So we could chalk it up to that, I suppose…but yeah, it did seem like they came out of nowhere.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
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