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That morph thing…. 😆 If that were a Tamara baby picture, I would say Emma wasn’t the only Ugly Duck to Swan in the show….but those morphs always are funny. At least it didn’t give her a 5’oclock shadow as it did for our “daughter” when I and the hubby tried it.

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Thanks to the transcript site, what Rumpel says is:

Rumpelstiltskin: Tsk tsk. The infant is our only hope. Get the child to safety. Get the child to safety and on its twenty-eighth birthday, the child will return. The child will find you and a final battle will begin.

Ah those pesky details about when this final battle begins that he leaves out!

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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This spin on Peter Pan isn’t one generally being floated about, so it would fit with A&E saying they hadn’t really seen people get the connections right.
Well long as we’re tossing out the wacky ideas, maybe Marian wasn’t “sick” so much as maybe she was a fairy, so her body wasn’t handling her pregnancy well, and that was why they needed a magic wand.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@AngieBelle wrote:

The prophecy is so vague and could be interpreted in so many ways. Not only do we not know exactly what “undoing” means, but we don’t know how it might happen. It could be an action of Henry’s that is his undoing, but it could also be that saving Henry is his undoing or harming him is his undoing. It could also be his fear of him or worrying about him. Getting Henry out of the way could be the cause itself!

If it is what will be and not what could be, then there’s no way he can escape it- it will happen regardless.

I agree that Gold is having a powerful internal struggle- he doesn’t want to hurt Henry but he doesn’t trust himself.

Good points! I would hope Rumpel is aware of the twists of fate enough to realize by now he cannot escape some things, but he can choose his actions and what sort of man he wants to be. If he will be undone either way, I hope he decides he is going to do what he can to make things right with Bae, protect Henry, and be the man Belle saw, not the man Regina tempts him to be with Lacey.

Of course, Regina pushing his buttons that way is interesting-she is playing with fire for Henry but does not know it. She probably just thought to stir things up so Gold can’t play the kindly grandpa. She doesn’t like Henry having others to love beside her. If Lacey pushes Gold to snap, then in a way the prophecy would be fulfilled because Regina made Lacey in response to learning of Henry’s connection to Rumple. So much for Snow’s hope that the family connection would “Mellow everyone out!”. It might have just made everything get far more complex and bumpy.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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I’m reminded of that meme someone made “Dat Rump”….

Poor Sneezy–that makes me wonder if the solution for belle is not going to be TLK after all, but something else entirely. Cause dwarves don’t get true love do they ….unless it would be his brothers love, like Emma’s love for Henry, not romantic but family.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@RumplesGirl wrote:

I would also like to add the Sheriff to this list.
But to the conversation as a whole, I wonder who we hate, and conversely, who we love is more a reflection of our own personal experiences than anything the writers are intending. Why do I love Rumple so much? Because I honestly relate to him more than any character I’ve ever encountered on TV in a very long time. A lot of that has to do with my own personal experiences.

This is so true–and of course, we have to bring our personal experiences in, especially when the show leaves gaps and doesn’t show us the entire scene of how a character goes from point A to point B. Sometimes also, we forget exactly what happened or remember it slightly differently from someone else, and that can point us to a different feeling about the scene.

@Surayya wrote:

I see the situation differently KFChimera.
In my mind, Neal could have manned up & told Emma he was taking responsibility for his own actions & gone to prison himself.
He could have explained that he loved her & wasn’t about to let her go to prison for his actions, that she deserved better than that & that a friend/August was going to look out for her while he was doing his time- failing that he could have simply gone & left her a note saying he had to put things right & August would look out for her while he was away- I could have lived with that 😉
Had she gone to prison as things stand now, but he had then waited for her in Tallahassee or even left her a letter saying he was sorry & if she could forgive him he’d be waiting at such & such etc, again I may be more forgiving- but he didn’t.
For me his actions are just despicable, even given the circumstances, but then I’m looking at the situation through the eyes & life experiences of someone who is very loyal & has an exceptionally strong sense of justice, which is why I’m enjoying this thread- like you say, getting other peoples takes on why they dislike/hate a character, even one which you yourself may like/love is really very interesting (I love Hook/Killian, but I totally understand how others could really despise him, same with Rumple & Regina) 🙂

I’m operating on the assumption that Neal couldn’t have done any of the things you suggest, because if he had, Emma would not have been able to compete her destined role as the savior. I think all that is implied in the scene from Tallahassee between Neal and August.

Neal: Well, we promised to take care of each other.

August: You love her. Good. That means you have to do right by her.

Neal: That’s all I’m trying to do.

August: Then leave her.

Neal: Never.

August: She has a destiny. And you? This life? You’re going to keep her from it. Okay? You believe in magic?

Neal: I take it you do.

August: So will you. Trust me. I’m going to show you something… Something that’s going to make you look at everything differently. And, when you see what I have in here, you’re going to listen. You’re going to believe every word I say.

(August leads Neal to his motorcycle, where he has a box attached to the back. He opens the lid.)

Neal: Yeah, right.

(Neal looks at the contents inside the box. August shuts it before it’s shown what’s inside.)

Neal: Okay, I’m listening.

August: There’s a curse… And it needs to be broken. Emma, is the key. I was tasked with keeping her on track and you, my friend, just got caught in the crossfire. Now, I’m going to tell you a story. And, at the end of it, you’re going to have to make a decision. Will you do the right thing, or not? So… Are you ready?

Fate is a real thing to Neal, as he grew up in FTL and saw his father become the Dark One, met the BF and all that.
Later on in Tallahassee, August and Neal say to each other:

August: Been a while. Where’d you go?

Neal: Tried to lose myself. It didn’t work. I want to talk to you about Emma.

August: I hope you’re not trying to reach out.

Neal: I just… I feel like… If… If I knew that she was okay, then I could move on. Is she?

August: She will be. She got eleven months.

Neal: That should be me! I should be doing that time.

August: No. We went over this. It’s good.

Neal: How’s it good?

August: It’s a minimum security place in Phoenix. And no, I am not going to tell you which one. She’ll get out of there, and she’ll be fine. You keep your promise and steer clear, and she can have a good life. She can do what she’s supposed to do.

Neal: And if I can’t be there for her, man, you got to promise me that you will be.

August: I promise.

Neal: Then you should do something for me. I was able to fence the watches. Don’t judge me. I’m giving it all to her. And the car – I got a clean VIN number for it, so it’s legit. I just… It’ll feel like I’m there with her, you know?

August: Money is not what she needs. Not for what’s ahead.

Neal: Can you just see that she gets it?

August: Sure.

Neal: And one more thing – if anything changes, and she does her job, this insanity ends, and she’s free…

August: I’ll send you a postcard.

I took that scene as August saying that it wasn’t possible (because of the requirements of fate/destiny) for Neal to just “man up” and do the time or even contact Emma to explain or apologize. I agree with you Suraya that its easy to imagine that he could have found some other way–but I also assume that August shot everything down. Now maybe Neal shouldn’t have believed in August so much, but he did. He trusted him with all that money, which August stole. We might not ever get the full story with August’s reboot, but from the pieces we know, Neal struggled with what he did, but did it “to get Emma home” as he says in Manhattan and to end “the insanity” which I took as a reference to the curse.

Even for a character like Emma with a strong sense of justice, and loyalty, I think his actions and intentions don’t add up to despicable choices. If he had been acting only out of self-interest to avoid his father, or to hurt her for some reason, then I would see it as a despicable act. He was just led to believe he had no other choice if he wanted to do “the right thing” by her. Perhaps that means I ought to hate Pinocchio more, since he is the reason Neal came to believe that. He actively lied to Neal about the money, and perhaps other things as well.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@BeastWhisperer wrote:

@Keb wrote:

Of course, Rumple’s running out of libraries to give the girl. And Lacey apparently doesn’t care about them anyway 🙁 Perhaps he can give her an MP3 player with a music library?

He could perform a striptease to her favorite Van Halen song. She needs some Panama! Plus, I really loved The Full Monty.

Love RG’s suggestion of wine too.

They so missed the opportunity for Lacey to say something about that movie, Full Monty….

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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Well I am all for anything that brings back brave, kicking Emma in her leather jacket, rather than silly hat wearing, mopey Emma. If Hook’s hook gives her a place to hang the jacket, so much the better.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@obisgirl wrote:

I can actually relate to this b/c it happened to me in real life. Not soon after I first got together with my boyfriend. My mom kept on pushing me and pushing to be friends with an old crush who broke my heart and I kept on pushing back on her b/c I was happy and couldn’t really understand why she was doing that. Then, it came out later to be a silly test then which upset my boyfriend and I very much.

So that’s where I’m coming from.

I see. I’m sorry you had that happen. I think the show has a little different flavor to it but now that you mention it, Gold is kind of pushing Emma toward Neal. I would not want her to be manipulated by Gold, any more than I want Gold manipulated by Regina with Lacey’s transformation. I won’t hate Neal’s character for what Gold does though. Gold/Rumpel is of course such a complicated character that as I said, I often hate what he does, but somehow stop actually hating him (so far). Though I can totally see how he might have crossed too many lines with some viewers.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@LaurieAnne wrote:

I actually like Lacey as a storyline and character developer. I like the idea of Rumple’s goodness being stretched – now he is the one who knows right from wrong, and he is risking (as many others have pointed out) losing Lacey (and ultimately Belle) if he is “too good.” I am hoping that this arc will lead to their eventual reconciliation and Belle regaining her memories. TLK is the only way and man do I want that to happen sooner rather than later. I love seeing both RC and EdR acting their brains out – it is too delicious and will only make their eventual coming together all the more wonderful. That is what interests me – seeing the journey and the processing of both of these characters. Now they have a storyline that is integral to both characters and to an important theme of the show – choosing light over darkness. I am thrilled, excited and terrified.

Saved me a lot of typing–I agree with all of that! I also think there’s been a kind of naive attitude in Belle about evil, for until now she’d never been in the place really of being tempted to do something dark and evil (that we’d seen). So I think this journey will expand her capacity to see good even in the characters where she did not see it previously.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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