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@RumplesGirl wrote:

Probably with the cane-o-pain, but I think more broadly what I mean is: is that Rumple is going to win her back? He has to get Lacy to trust him, to believe that he is a good man and that they really mean something to each other. I understand him not liking Whale hitting on Lacy, but Lacy/Belle is a strong woman who can take care of herself (Yaougui for example) and I’m not sure how she’d react to that display of violence.

So what if Lacey is the one to knock him down? Whale does “like the ladies” so maybe he got too fresh. Still, I can’t see Victor Frankenstein being foolish enough to hit on Rumpel’s girl. He is now a combination character. She could also, however, hate him for her treatment in the hospital (constant drugging). He seems like the main/chief doctor there. I really hope he is not dying! But a punch–that would be ok.

I think Emilie joked in some interview that the Beast might rub off on the Beauty, rather than the other way around. I like the idea someone had in this thread that Rumpel has to reform her for a bit. Yes would be good character development for both!

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I need to rewatch those August/Neal scenes. I thought that August sold the decision to send her to jail as some kind of “tough love” to put her on the right path. There are some incarceration facilities that make rehabilitation as much a focus as restriction of freedoms. Still I agree, it is hard to imagine how someone in love could so easily (as it appeared) be convinced jail was the best solution to turn someone’s life around.

Of course, back then we had no idea what was in August’s box. I assumed it was something that made his decision make more sense even for a man in love, a kind of noble sacrifice like what Snow & Charming did when sending Emma in the wardrobe. Now that I know what it was, I have to wonder, how much of Neal’s acquiescence to the idea was driven by his fear of his father and how much by some kind of belief in the inevitability of fate, and how much by love. The romantic part of me wants to believe he was honest about trying to help her because he truly wanted what was best for her even if it was not best for him, but I don’t think that was his only reason.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@Schmacky wrote:

I’m thinking.. and yes, I’m fanwanking this… that the reason Blue isn’t very powerful now is because she is the oldest power. Perhaps she’s… well, lost her powers along the way. Old age, time… I don’t know. But, the oldest doesn’t necessarily mean the strongest.

Was she the “original” or “ultimate” power according to Morraine? Either way, 300 years later things might be different, and her relative amount of power could be less. After all, an original computer is nowhere near as powerful as the ones we use today. Rumpel upgraded himself in all kinds of ways, but maybe that is not possible for a fairy.

I do agree that the writers should explain more clearly why. Is it because there are not enough “pure hearts” who she can help? A limit of fairy dust she can use per day? We fans can muse about it, but it really is a gap that the writers should address with more than a tweet.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@Keb wrote:

I don’t think he has anything against royalty that behaves itself (or furthers his own agenda), and clearly he finds them quite useful when it comes to dealmaking, but look at what he says to Cinderella when she wants to go to the ball–he thinks she’s better of where she is. He implies it’s because of the price of magic, but just perhaps he doesn’t see much value in marrying royalty. (Could even be lingering bitterness from what Cora chose? At least from the character’s perspective, since I doubt the writers thought this far ahead for ep 104. But half the fun is filling in the missing bits.)

Oh, that’s interesting! At some point this whole flashing back and forth is a bit of a plot hole trap for the writers. If they don’t write very carefully, characters might seem like they don’t remember things they should have, because at that point the writers had not written it yet. When it meshes well, like that scene in Skin Deep when Rumpel yells at a mirror (at a time when Cora was through the looking glass) it makes you wonder if they actually had planned some stuff far in advance. I want to go back and rewatch this scene now!

Back to the discussion though, I agree that Rumpel is not too caught up in the whole allure of Royalty. Does he ship Emma with Neal? His first reaction on finding Neal was that he wanted to make Neal 14 again and take away his memories. That kind of would put a crimp in the rekindling of a relationship! After Neal says are you insane, it is only then that Rumpel begins to consider how he can use Emma to at least get Neal to Storybrooke. Rumpel is also still wary of Henry and that “undoing” thing. I think Rumpel does not yet think of Emma the way she does him, as family. Everyone except Bae and Belle are still tools to him. On the other hand, not sure many women could handle Rumpel as a father-in-law quite the way Emma could, and I do think Rumpel has a grudging respect for her. I think Neal noticed that as well–that Emma is not afraid or resentful of Rumpel as many might be.

(Edited b/c I abbreviated Rumpel to Rump for some reason…considering the synonyms for that word it made me giggle, b/c there are times where maybe that is a better nickname for the character.)

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@tombo671 wrote:

Another funny scene was when they had Regina physically digging last episode….BAHAHA!

😆 True, though so perfectly illustrated Cora’s character that she made Regina do all the digging, which was also funny! Guess she figured she had done enough manual labor in her life.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@MysteryKat25 wrote:

Who on this show DOESN’T have a lot of work to do?

Agreed, and when they have no work left to do–they’d be sidelined!
@MysteryKat25 wrote:

As for any pairings, hopefully they’ll show people what they need to see in order to get to the “not happy but don’t hate them with a passion and lose respect for a character” stage for anybody who doesn’t get the ship they want. I’ve seen people threaten to stop watching even which saddens me, especially since we’re miles away from endgame.

I feel the same way, especially about the last point. Let the ships fall where they may and enjoy the journey. The writers are not solely concerned about how scenes alter a ship or not the way fans might be. Sometimes they have other goals in the scenes they write. So characters are growing to change and grow, and they may even alter the endgame the writers have in mind right now. Within the show, we can interpret all that as characters needing to go on a journey to be ready to love and be the person who can love whoever they are with (if anyone) at the end of the story (kind of like that show “How I met your Mother”…where Morrison played a guest star role).

I think of the way the show presents Emma’s love life, and the “redemption potential” of various characters as akin to an optical illusion where what you see depends on how you look at it ( another HIMYM reference, it can be hard to tell if someone is a duck or a rabbit). So it can be fun to discuss what scenes lead people to see what they do.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@RumplesGirl wrote:

The father and kid (Kurt and Owen) could have run into Charming’s body and felt they needed to go into town to inform the Sheriff about the almost dead guy on the highway. Charming was so injured in FTL, so near death, that when the Curse hit, he wasn’t healed but left almost in the exact same circumstance. It could explain why Kurt and Owen are going into town.

Clever–would also explain why Regina had put Charming in the hospital rather than killing him. Would have been awkward to do anything else, plus pointless from Regina’s POV if Snow did not remember him to suffer watching him die.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@Jessie:Paradoxes of people wrote:

Wow.That’s an awesome theory!!!!Could explain multiple things with one big event!!!!Nice thinking!!!!!

😆 Thanks, though it it does seem more likely that the show would go with what you said in your later post. Cora decided rather than killing all of Henry’s relatives to get Xavier’s throne, that she would rather kill just Eva, and have Regina marry Leopold. And then the show will leave a big plothole about Regina’s relatives & Xavier’s kingdom will be forgotten. 😆

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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@Jessie:Paradoxes of people wrote:

Yeah,so that means Leopold is possibly the distant relative who is,along with Eva,the foreigner, put ahead of Cora and Henry to rule,thereby kindling Cora’s animosity even further……Or is there possibly another way Eva could be in the way of Regina being queen…….. ❓ Confusing…

Yes there is another way. Gold alone is not enough to keep a Kingdom. If Xavier’s kingdom fell in a war, his heirs to the throne would not matter.

This is kind of my convoluted theory for now until the show explains it:
Xavier hinted something about alliances and that there were wars going on. Add in that Rumpel, devious as ever, now hated Cora and still wanted baby Regina. You can imagine he probably set something in motion to topple Xavier’s kingdom, leaving Cora and Henry high and dry in terms of being royalty and being in line for Xavier’s throne.

Meanwhile, Eva (who Xavier described as a princess from a “northern kingdom” so she was not related to them ) marries King Leopold (who does not need to be related to Xavier either). Let’s say Leopold’s Kingdom took over the territory that used to be Xavier’s. Now Eva is Queen of the land that Cora would have had, if that Kingdom still existed.

I also imagine that maybe part of the reason Leopold won the war against Xavier or otherwise took over the territory had something to do with fairies helping the “Good” Queen Eva. And I sort of wonder too about King Midas. Pretty sure Rumpel was involved in him getting the Golden touch. So if Midas used to need gold in trade from Xavier, then Rumpel gave Midas the golden touch power, then suddenly Xavier’s kingdom is pretty weak despite all the gold from Cora, The Kingdom crumbles with no allies. Cora would be pretty frustrated and vengeful at that point, and she would have a lot more reasons to hate Eva, Snow & Rumpel.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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I mentioned this in another thread, when I read a spoiler about this episode. The Spoiler was a magazine article that hinted we would see a “Bad Romance”. That put me in mind of the Lady GaGa song by the same name, which fits how I see Cora & Rumple.

The refrain goes:
“I want your love, and I want your revenge
You and me could write a bad romance
I want your love, and all your love is revenge
You and me could write a bad romance”
They understood each other, they were drawn to each other, but ultimately they were not good for each other. I think there was meant to be a disturbing vibe to their relationship. Belle falls for the man hidden beneath the Beast, but Cora loved that dark side of him.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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