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As far as the movie Elsa goes, I’ve never really seen anything to make me believe she was a lesbian. I just know ALOT of people believe it to be so, so thats why I wouldn’t be surprised if they made her such.
People might be surprised in real life who is lesbian or bisexual woman. 😉 Elsa is not set up already with her prince charming, she has no visible romantic interest so far so there is a chance she could be into women (yes we are that humble, we don’t want to take away anyone from anyone, fearing repercussions). Elsa was probably born a different person, having powers that made her an odd one out, were not understood, made her parents even to lock her in. Elsa breaks free and doing so the somewhat closed up figure (body language) turns into a confident, sexy young woman while singing a song of empowerment. When you listen to the lyrics as a queer person that is the song we all could sing, some have in their lives already, Elsa is like one of us. Of course can take it for any kind of empowering like a feminst one as well, but Elsa is a kind of archetype character queer people relate to, and especially queer women. We’re used to find relatable character more by subtext, in indirect ways and not that much as openly queer character.
I am very sure, and not just if it would be Elsa, that a few people and organisations will cry out, give at least advice not to watch OUaT or even call for a boycott. I doubt though that these people watch even OUaT anyway, nothing we have to be worried about concerning ratings.
While very sure in our world there are plenty of real issues for queer people, although varying a lot depending on other factors like gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status besides region of course, don’t think that this is something to tackle for OUaT. A lot of things are glossed over in this show, like most social issues for example. The show is about love and hope as they claim, the relationship one way or the other should be an important factor in defining the characters. I’ts not about denying, there are plenty and big issues, but I would find it nice to see for a change in the narrative no big issues in what gender a lover has. Being a rarity in fairy tale world it will be an issue anyway outside the narrative of the Once universe, outside the diegetic reality of the show, in the spectatorial reality, the reality of the audience’s perception and comprehension.
Concerning Snow being maybe pejorative at first:
Regina was without her heart when she kissed Henry and evoked true loves magic to get the memories for everybody back. Actually at least it seemed to do her good to have heart taken away, she finally opened up to a new person, a new love, overcoming her fears. So, how does that fit in with Snow closing her mind and becoming even a slightly different person because she has only half a heart now? Does that mean, taking out the heart of evil people betters them, while it destroyed the good guys? I mean, it could make sense that way, although it would make Cora’s story arc illogical inside the Once universe. But the whole having no heart thing has become as sad writing mess. I doubt it will make Snow a different person in the sense of becoming more intolerant for example. Her act was an act of deep love, it should grow her character and make her stronger again and not diminish the character even more.
Just because she was so focused on baby story Snow doesn’t now need to be a traditionalist. She might have some suburban housewife vibe at the moment, but making her because of that conservative in views on romance would be a cliche in itself.
I see it somewhat like RumplesGirl. Snow has proven to be open minded, she accepted Red the way she is, she befriended dwarfs, she is giving Regina chance after chance. Right, she tricked Regina and killed Cora, but at least for a while because of that Snow had a dark spot in her heart. Snow is far from perfect on the show, she was not even in season 1 while she was still a strong (aka more complex and interesting) character, and even more so if you look around in forums. so I don’t see a point in making her the one being dismissive of same gender romance at first. A lot of people see her as being a rather self-righteous person by now, it would be no surprising moment, just another nail in the coffin of the great character we had once upon a time ago. Unless TPTB plan to bring Snow as far down as Regina was, as a counterpoint to Regina, but all I see is some neglect and mediocre writing if it comes to Snow.
Would see more Rumple to be one reacting somewhat negative, because of him being such an outsider and as Rumplestiltskin such a flashy guy (and somewhat fashion-conscious, to trigger cliches here) he is less someone to be expected to have an issues with it. He had a major issue with true love in the first place for a while, he has been more of a laid back, traditional guy before he became the Dark One. And unfortunately some of those bullied sometimes become the worst bullies.
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But Anna and Elsa in the movie weren’t fire and ice IMO, there was nothing to balance out between them, only something to balance out inside of Elsa’s character, and though I probably would picture Anna with Spring and Elsa with Winter, I would not get the picture of fire and ice into my mind if it comes to them. Difference is not at the core of their relationship, even though Elsa is a person different from pretty much everyone around. They love each other in the beginning, they both suffer being forced apart. Sorry, fire and ice is for me an image of antagonism and that is not what I sense in their relationship. But different reading.
Admittedly I never warmed up to the character of Anastasia, I found her mostly arrogant and irritating and more cold as ice than any fiery, which can be okay, but as character I found her boring, a kind of cooled off version of Cora minus the psychopathy, though the turns in her character were rather crazy. It was one of the main reasons that I stopped watching Wonderland after 4 episodes (besides turning Wonderland into mostly just some more happy ending seeking dramatic love story) And pretty sure some are going to tell me, that I should watch the rest and might then change my mind, but doubt I would, she didn’t struck me any different when I watched episode 11, still found her boring.
Anna was a lovely and on first sight sympathetic character with a certain integrity, and yes, could be interesting to change her story and challenge her personality even, but can’t see her being changed to power hungry like Anastasia has been, not even temporarily. Different kind of temper in these characters.
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Pronunciation can vary depending on region and language. Anna is not a Scandinavian name, it’s quite popular all over Europe. Now they might have a different name history or name origins in the Once universe, but let’s take a look out our world. Anna comes from Hannah (Hebrew) and that is connected with the meaning “favour” or “grace”. While the other Ana we’re talking here about is a short from Anastasia, coming from Anastasios or Anastasius, Ancient Greek name, meaning resurrection. Anna and Ana might sound alike but are not the same name nor even related.
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Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman as Holmes and Watson!
Modern versions of them, coming to Storybrooke to bust some fairy tales myths. Too bad TPTB kinda have butchered such an idea (non believers from our world accidentally stranding in Storybrooke on the hunt to out fake magic stories) the moment they brought in this stupid Home Office.
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‘Allo ‘Allo was a good sitcom. You should also check out Keeping Up Appearances.
Will do 🙂
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I have to disagree here, OUAT has yet to present a male/male relationship at all, whereas at least they have shown Mulan/Aurora. I’m not a queer woman, but I too feel slightly misrepresented since I’m black. Every black character we’ve had has either been unimportant, evil, gone missing from the show, dead, or all of the above. But that doesn’t mean just because the black viewers of OUAT may be minimal than other races, that we shouldn’t get shown more often either so that they can have something for the others. Besides, shouldn’t showing great portrayal of a queer couple in general be a good thing for ALL members of the LGBT community?
TheWatcher – I agree with you, that OUaT lacks diversity in more than one way, and even more so on the level of recurring or regular characters. Why make Robin Hood a white man for example? And I guess, plenty of people would ask, how that could be, with alleged historical English background for that character, but so what? It’s still just a legend and this is a fantasy show. Advantage of Sean Maguire is his “natural” British accent, but come on, it’s not like there are no British actors of color, as there are people good with imitating accents, it worked for Lancelot.
But back to queer representation
I don’t mind if we get gay or lesbian queer couple in general. There is just one thing for me: OUaT stands out as a show with having a nearly even number of female and male main and lead characters , while the majority of TV still have a majority of male main characters and leads (and with recurring and supporting characters the number is not better). If it comes to equality of gender (though this is bound to a binary modell, the number of transgender or non-binary is close to zero) it looks a bit better with queer characters, but it was just past year that it was as good as equal,, before the same that goes for characters in general, a majority of male characters, was true for queer characters as well. So, like Crystal think of lesbian romance as a story arc for a recurring or regular character more fitting for the show
Hook is a pirate…. His spent a lot of time on the open sea with tons of sea men, I wouldn’t be surprised if he reveals he had a few flings at one point.
Hook reminds me somewhat of Jack Harkness sometimes (Torchwood, Dr. Who; time traveler and con man turned mostly good guy, openly bisexual). So, yes, why shouldn’t he be bisexual even.
I think this depends on the attitudes in the EF over THEIR history with homosexuality, not our history, though. The EF and our world aren’t the same. For all we know, the EF is super tolerant and has been 100% gay friendly for thousands of years.
Agreed, just because it looks like they had more of medieval world in the Enchanted Forest doesn’t mean they have the same religious and philosophical views that were dominant in medieval Europe. Even though someone like the Blue Fairy seemed to have a bit of conservative view on things, for example if it came to fairies or dwarfs and true love – although it was more about them having a certain role in the world which seemed to come with the downside of giving up finding your true love for yourself, and the dwarfs were thought of incapable of it, more the situation of nuns, monks, eunuchs (so consequently the fairies became some sort of order of nuns in Storybrooke).
But I am reluctant about making the reactions to a queer romance a point in the show, because I don’t want another coming out story, exactly not focus on it being a queer romance but simply a romance. So if conflict with other characters or others questioning it, then I’d rather prefer it to be not because of gender but because of other issues, their background, appearance, behavior. More in the sense for example of, that it’s just a peasant, not worthy of a princess, or a queer variation of Romeo and Juliet.
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There is something outside Once? 😉
And guess it is about more recent and still airing shows…
Drama
The Good Wife – it’s just good drama, and Julianna Margulies makes it all worth while. Additionally Alan Cumming is always a joy and who wouldn’t fall for Archie Panjabi, especially when she plays such a dashing, fierce, inscrutable complicate character.The Fosters – usually not much into family and teenager drama shows, but gave this one a try because of the family set up with lesbian mothers and foster kids, and still am curious how they go on telling the story of this colorful family. And what is not to love about Judicorn?
Elementary – like it way more than UK series Sherlock, and yes has something to do with women being more respected in this show, and not just because they made Watson a woman.
Scott&Bailey – UK crime show with two, one could say actually three female detectives in the focus. It’s more about them handling life and work, than about the crimes. If that reminds anyone of Cagney&Lacey that’s okay, it should, but it has Manchester charm, and frankly, I find that more attractive.
The Fall – another UK crime show, and one some might have heard of in this forum as well, because, Jamie Dornan is in it, as the bad guy. And Gillian Anderson and Archie Panjabi (guess though she will not be back for 2nd season)
Orange Is The New Black – I love Red. So good to see Kate Mulgrew on screen again and as such a great character. And Laverne Cox and Uzo Aduba. Pretty much love all the women on this show. There a some interesting characters and stories and they know to tell them.
Sci-fi
Orphan Black – of course. Anyone not watching this show and Tatiana Maslany (who got my attention already guest staring in Flashpoint a while ago) misses out. It’s more than just a brilliant one woman show (although that would be enough reason to watch).Dr. Who – tempted to put that under comedy though 😉 And a show I watch only sporadic, because can’t care less about continuity or story making sense if it comes to this show, it’s just geek fun to me. And British.
Supernatural/Fantasy
Grimm – monster crime noir with some Grimm fairy tales and sagas touch. Would be more surprising if I wouldn’t watch it.Haven – because Emily Rose. But this fictional town of freaks is a lovely place to visit, even though nothing might make much sense, but that’s maybe the point, is it.
Lost Girl – campy, flashy, dark, noir and crazy. There are shows I want to make sense of and there are shows like this one for pleasure inlcuding some hot cast, male and female and human and fae. Although I enjoy as well the crazy ride into mythology.
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D – not sure if I like this show or like to hate it. Guess it would be easier if they would just be more goofy, but people take it serious. Looking forward though to Agent Carter.
Comedy
not quite my genre. or more, there haven’t been that many shows attracting me called comedy, though there are shows I would call perhaps comedic in other genres (like Lost Girl, Dr. Who). Love me some warped Monthy Python humor, and doubt that many outside of the UK (funny enough I am from outside the UK, but am pretty sure by now, must have been a Brit in one of my former lives) know a show like ‘Allo’ Allo! (but that was a show first airing in the 80s, long time ago)But there is one “series” (well, not sure if I really want to call it a series)
A Touch of Cloth – very British, that means some sexual inuendo and NSFW and probably should rate it PG17 (NSFW = not safe for work, as if anyone would watch videos at work). Comedy police procedural, playing every cop or crime show trope and some more screen trope – down to the detail (it’s great to take a closer look at the props, you can find some stuff on Tumblr). A rapid fire of jokes, not a second to take a breath, will make major sore abs. The kind of show people hate or like. Fun: Suranne Jones staring here as bisexual DC Anne Oldman (pronounced old man) plays one of the leads in Scott&Bailey.
(Jack Cloth is the main character, Asap Qureshi on of the other DCs, they’re talking about that Jack conveniently had some drugs at hand right in time to pretend to be a bad guy, and it was a break of narrative continuity)
Asap Qureshi: So… It’s against all established rules of narrative.
Jack Cloth: I don’t have time for rules of narrative
Asap Qureshi: But in terms of continuity alone…
Jack Cloth: Forget continuity!
some gifsReality TV
I watch the news and otherwise go down on the street, sit in one of the cafes around and watch what’s happening there in real – that it the best reality show I can get, better than anything on screen (well, one has to live in an interesting, colorful place for that).¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
@Daniel: I didn’t even expect a technical solution for it, I always first count on human sense and cooperation before looking for technology or technical enforcement.
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Frankly I would be annoyed if they would make Elsa Will’s sister and retcon the name, although I can see why this idea has a certain attraction to others, would it explain as well, why Will comes to Storybrooke (without his true love at his side). But the sisterly love between Elsa and Anna is a defining moment of Elsa’s character, and now after we had the ill version of sisterly love with Zelena and Regina I would very much like to have the contrast to it, two sister influencing each other in a good way.
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It would be subtle if the Black Fairy would be the one playing around with the white stuff. But how did Snow get her magic dust then, when Elsa was at the time trapped in an urn in Rumple’s vault? Of course it is possible, that Snow never in person met that Black Fairy herself, but still.
Like others since Snow mentioned the Black Fairy the first time in season 1 I favored her to be Maleficent. Regina and Maleficent seemed to have a love-hate-rivalry friendship, which I would have found interesting to explore. But by now think that ship has sailed (no, not romance ship, just saying). Quite sure one day the Black Fairy will show up, or might, depending on how many seasons the show runs. At the moment she is kinda a villain waiting to substitute sometime (sorry, couldn’t help but think of a soccer reference here, lol, my country is preparing for soccer craziness)
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