[Myril]

I am sorry you are not going to watch OUaT anymore. I disagree on your view. To me I am relieved that they have male characters like Rumple, and PP because practically every fairytale they have covered thus far focuses on females. I think they did a good job as far as modernizing the original fairy tales.

(…)

I’m all about girl power, don’t get me wrong, but I believe that the show should be equal to both genders not just all strong female leads.

Call me Old Fashioned, but that’s how I feel. And I think it’s a shame that after 3 seasons your going to give it up right when the plot is changing again.

I see it differently, because OUaT had been an exception in my view and now has become something which we get to see commonly on small and big screen. Most fantasy and hero stories on screen are about male heroes and anti-heroes, women are still an exception as protagonists. If we mostly get something like with the Avengers, a heroic female character in an ensemble. Besides that these had been good action movies, it is quite sad, that there still aren’t much more to name than Alien and Terminator Judgement Day, Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, and now Hunger Games. Oh, right, Mulan and even more important Brave as animated characters of course as well. And on TV we had Buffy, Xena, Charmed, Alias and far back as in the 70s Wonderwoman and Bionic Woman. At the moment we have Lost Girl and Orphan Black (there is a list on reddit  which I mostly agree with). I am talking about fantasy story telling centering on strong female characters, not just strong female characters as one of the regular characters. It’s not just about women power (and please call it women power, we are not talking about girls here), it is about telling their stories. It’s not a question alone of screentime for a character, it is about which character is the connector, the center.

And there is my problem: in my opinion OUaT has become the story of the Rumplestiltskin male clan, a father and son narration, Rumple is the evil mind and manipulator behind the Dark Curse, Neal the lost son who had to be found, then grandson Henry was kidnapped and put in the middle as the possible boy to be Rumple’s undoing, Pan is the father and big evil for the moment … This way it is a classic “boys’ adventure” anti-hero story, nothing special for me anymore.

Don’t get me wrong, I still enjoy well written men’s adventure, so I will go and watch The Desolation of Smaug, Winter Soldier and others. I will even still watch OUaT whenever I want some casual entertainment, but I don’t care anymore more about the show, it’s no need to see thing, nothing I am invested in anymore, it has turned into casual amusement.

I am a little sad about this development, because I surely had first seen a different story in this show, though maybe that was wishful thinking or just a temporary thing. The show was not special to me for twisting fairy tales in new ways, actually think Grimm does a better job with a new take on fairy tales, and as being a darker show would be even more of my taste, but I preferred OUaT so far. And then there is the Canadian show Lost Girl with drawing on so many ways from myth, legend and fairy tales with its Fae world (a show which admittedly owned already before more of my fan heart than OUaT though, number of reasons). OUaT was special to me because it looked at first like they are centering it on the stories of female characters in a modern, empowering way (and not the traditional 50s women Disney model of only married with her true love a woman will find a happy ending; animated Snow, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty had to be saved by their princes, at least Belle was the savior of her prince but it started as sacrifice for another man, her father). I was willing to put up with some mediocre writing at times because of that. Looking back it is more of a surprise that I didn’t realize that earlier – guess they have to thank a brilliant cast and particular Lana Parilla and Jennifer Morrisson for that.

We have plenty of male leads on screen, so if it is about equality in my opinion it is more than due that in at least a few shows men take a back seat. Thought OUaT were one show for that, but I was wrong. I see that now.
Edit: I do give the show credit for drawing a slightly different picture of what it means or can mean to be a man, a more positive and less violent and less power celebrating image, particular with Charming, but as well with Rumple (driven by reconnecting with his son to not do it all like his father) or Hook (whose attitude is more than just superficial chivalry or gentleman/pirate code, despite that he sometimes as well is more of a typical charmer)

I don’t see that changing in the future, I think it will stay more of a men’s adventure story. Even if the focus might go back somewhat to Regina or Emma after the winter break (it sure will not happen before), the show still will be mostly the Rumple clan story and not Emma’s, Snow’s and Regina’s anymore. I can understand that they are enamored with the spectacular characterisation of Rumple by Robert Carlyle, which simply calls for bringing Rumple so much into the center of the show, but it’s not what I was looking for. It’s their story to tell, but not the story interesting me. It’s ironic that my fave writer, Jane Espenson is the one who added with a great writing to make Rumple’ stories shine even more.

I share this to give an idea about one possible reason why people might stop being all excited about the show, and might not be aching to watch it when it first airs but are okay with watching it some time later, or even might stop watching at all (which I won’t, just becoming a casual viewer, which additionally means little interested in any merchandise). Was wondering if more have similar impressions and feelings about the show.

HappyEndings – maybe we can start an OUaT ex-lovers club, a place to revel in good old times and missed chances and lost dreams 😉 No show bashing aloud though there, guess you agree, criticism is okay but in civilised manner. Okay, maybe the kind of Regina’s snark should be allowed, but just the snark, not her destructive revenge taking manners.

[Myril]

Those particular tweets weren’t exactly yell-y, but if you add up all the people tweeting him stuff like that and worse, it’s a dull roar. Just telling him you think the show sucks and you’re not gonna vote for it isn’t exactly constructive critisism, (..)

Saying, one would want them to give (something like) season one again is at least for a tweet quite constructive in my opinion, it makes clear in short form, someone liked what and how they did things in first season better, suggesting to do it again more like that. Sometimes it is not easy to bring it down to just one thing or even just a few things, when one thinks there is a lot going wrong. But advisable reaction to such a tweet could be for example, to ask what is seen as being worse now than in season 1. Biting back is human, but known not just on Twitter to create more biting back and heat. I am trained to react calm to things like that in customer service, and have trained people myself, and even I occasionally find it too hard to hold back and then do bite back – always with bad effects and regretting it. It never does anyone any good. Have been somewhat in those shoes.

Clearly we disagree about the tone of the tweet, if it was okay or not constructive or something else. None of the tweets we’re talking about was particular good form. Consider to use it in the future as an example of how communication goes wrong even when action and reaction might not look that much of a big thing here in itself. Nice example to analyze with the so called Four-Side model in communication, and to analyse what role context can play.

I don’t keep daily track of Adam Horowitz and other cast&crew on Twitter, but frequently take a look at it, so I know there is some silly and offensive stuff tweeted at times, and that there is sometimes “dull roar”. Also people occasionally overreact although their rap sometimes has a point, for example the discussion about what Regina did with Graham.

Just think that we would do better not to add more fuel to the fire on here, in these forums as well. None of the person in question, neither Adam Horowitz nor the other person are on this forum to clarify their views or commentaries (as far as we know).

So my suggestion: To keep the tweets documented here to informative tweets.

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[Myril]

Not going to make me popular here, but think that tweet was a moderate statement of someone disappointed by the show and the following tweets not any worse. Yelling? YELLING WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS TO ME. Would rather not use it as an example of what stupid stuff the cast and crew have to put up with on Twitter, because this doesn’t fit category “outrageous” or “insulting” in my book. Or are we at the point of “cheer and applaud or shut up”? Of course cast&crew are campaigning to vote for the show. No biggie. But no biggie either if people use that as opportunity to tell, they think, the show isn’t good (anymore) and don’t vote for it (do they really always have to say, they think, to make clear it’s an opinion?). Sorry, but I do think Adam Horowitz better should have ignored this one, as simple as that. But he is human, humans make mistakes. No big deal. I respect Adam Horowitz much for trying to answer to fans or whoever on Twitter a lot, taking some heat, don’t get me wrong.

Suggestion: Maybe we should better concentrate here on informative tweets, clarifying discussed plot points or character traits on the show or info about ratings, new episode titles and alike? No need to add even more fuel to the fire in fandoms. If we nevertheless as well want to give an impression to people not using Twitter, or not that much or not following the cast&crew, what cast&crew sometimes have to put up to, we maybe could do that in a thread on it’s own (I would prefer not to at all though)?

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[Myril]

Started to write a posting but ended up with an essay about that there is more than romance. Posted that now on my own blog, if you’re interested: http://blindspot-time.blogspot.de/2013/11/there-is-more-than-romance.html

What my musing started with: Wish OUaT would show more friendship, BFF stories.

If we leave out the big four–Snowing, Rumbelle, CS, and SF–what ship (romance, friendship, crack) do you want to see more of? Anything and everything!

I would love to see more of Grumpbelle. I love their friendship.

I loved the Arielle Belle friendship, more princess power! I also liked Archie-belle,

and of course the sass love fest of Granny and Grumpy.

To the point to be annoying, but clearly miss Red if it comes to this. Red’s and Snow’s friendship was just one of the best relationships of the show so far in my opinion and sure would like to see more of it (aware of the limits that are now there simply because Meghan Ory takes care of her career, and I hope her new show will succeed). Wouldn’t have been somewhat awkward maybe, but also would have liked to see Emma and Red developing a friendship. And the chemistry between Red and Belle was just great.

Possible that Ariel can now take over that role a bit, not replace Red, but give opportunity to show some nice BFF stuff. Eric? Who cares about Eric! 😉

More GrumpBelle would be fine with me too.

And I think we need some serious bromance on this show, but Hook and Charming have this tiny problem, that there is Emma, and Hook and Neal have this tiny problem, that there is Emma. Don’t see anyone else at the moment, although in the future there could be something possible with Robin Hood, with Neal, Charming or Hook.

Since I watched this Monday OUaT and Lost Girl one after another, my most favorite fictional bromance is a crossover, it’s Hook from OUaT and Vex from Lost Girl. Bet these two would be great together.

Here’s something to consider: Is Ruby a bad friend to Belle?

Obviously, the real reason Ruby’s not around is because Meghan Ory’s on a different show and is unavailable. But what do you think the in-show reason for Ruby not being there for Belle could be?

Can’t think of any good in-show reason. The dwarfs made it quite clear, that it was as peaceful in Storybrooke as it never has been, so my idea of Red being busy as interim sheriff doesn’t really work. And most certainly don’t want to imagine her being busy all day with Dr. Frankenstein, because that would indeed make her a bad friend. One can be in love but never should forget about friends in need, sorry. And I don’t think Red is this getting lost in romance type.

edit:

One of the pairings which doesn’t sit right for me is Graham and Red. I know the graphic novel is considered to be canon by many, but still don’t see that pairing. Being a werewolf and being raised by werewolves doesn’t really make a great reason for me to put them together. Maybe because there was really nothing to indicate that on the show before, not the tiniest breadcrump. Right, there was not much time to even hint at it, but to me it looks annoyingly much like some afterthought to try to appease the fans that Graham got killed so fast and that the writers failed to make good use of Red in second season – and that I can’t stand.

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[Myril]

Nice title, although maybe I am old fashioned fandom school, but shipping refers in my books strictly to romantic relationships. Just saying. Doesn’t mean I expect us to only discuss those here and exclude bromance, sisterhoods, BFFs, parents and whatever kind of closer relationship people can have, but people might not get that by the title.

Now thoughts about Belle and her father Moe.

After all Moe is Belle’s father, not a good one maybe, but unless he leaves town or gets killed or ends up in a different realm those two probably won’t be able to help it but will have to deal with being related. Even if she tells him to stay away, they still have a relationship, but think it never will be an easy one. No matter what, doubt Moe ever will accept, or even tolerate, that his daughter is in love with Rumple. For sure not as long as he is the Dark One. He probably believes that Belle is suffering what is generally called Stockholm Syndrome (and not just he does, it was discussed by some in forums, finding it hard to understand, how Belle could be in love with evil Rumple), so from his point of view, Belle is confused or even hexed and needs to be rescued. When he wanted to send Belle over the town’s line to make her forget everything, he was a desperate father. If getting her free of Rumple’s influence would have demanded to kill himself, Moe eventually would have done even that. He is not really a bad father, but he doesn’t understand his daughter.

But I would have no problem with Belle and Moe reuniting. If Moe could overcome his distrust and maybe hate for Rumple and at least tolerate, that his daughter sees something good in this imp (and we as audience know, Rumple is not an all ruthless evil guy, not a psychopath type) it could be even possible. Think as much as it has hurt and does hurt Belle, that her father wanted to make her forget everything, and doesn’t understand and accept her love for Rumple, she hasn’t stopped loving her father, she is a far too gentle soul for giving up on him.

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[Myril]

Suppose the Darling kids didn’t know that much about the shadow and Pan. Could they have? Wendy didn’t look like she had aged much, and it is said Pan had her has prisoner for more than a century. So think Wendy came to Neverland again not long after Bae, her brothers probably with her, or they followed, or were taken by the shadow, that is still open. John and Michael look like being in their late 20s maybe early 30s, so my guess is, they came to Neverland as kids and Pan sent them to our world after Neal managed to escape the island (or after he let Neal escape).

Think the Darlings had not much of a plan or even idea how to save Bae, but as kids sometimes can be, they wanted to be the heroes and save him. Possible John and Michael went first, and Wendy was then coerced to follow. Or Wendy went first, hoping she could somehow convince Pan to let her and Bae go (she knew Pan was creepy, but hardly what a psychopath he is), and then her brother followed to rescue her. Whatever, doubt they had really a plan or something, so if they coined the term Home Office that was more a childish thing.

Home Office in the UK is the official term for what is known to US citizens as Department of Homeland Security, in other countries it would be eventually a part of what there is called ministry of interior (Germany for example). It is responsible for police, border agency and security services (MI5, not MI6, so not Bond, but people do mix it up). It was formed in 1782. So the Darlings could have known the term.

Possible, that Tamara and Greg somehow were made to believe that they actually worked for the government, in this case that would be the government of the United Kingdom, thus the use of the term Home Office. It’s amazing how many people want to be some kind of James Bond, and why shouldn’t a government department be interested in keeping magic at bay or out of this world, if magic is seen as a threat. People believe in stranger things. In real though there was no department, they weren’t working for the real Home Office, but John and Michael made it up, or Pan told them to (more likely I think), because who would work for anyone saying they are minions of Peter Pan? Seriously, maybe some 6 year old would find that thrilling, but as teenager at the latest one would have questioned that. In our world, with James Bond movies and spy movies and S.H.I.E.L.D and HYDRA agencies all around, working for Home Office sounds a lot more plausible, especially when the people telling you that have a neat British accent and you’re some half educated american high school kid or college twenty-something. 😉

The Home Office is bogus in my opinion. There never was a secrete organization. Possible they (aka John and Michael) recruited a few more people, but don’t think there was some big thing going on.

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[Myril]

Thanks for the poster and links and articles. Had to snort when reading in the report about the D23, that Jolie said there, they wanted to stay true to the original – which meant the Disney movie obviously, not the original story. Considering that one of the first recorded tellings of Sleeping Beauty includes rape (the prince takes her while she is asleep, so without her being able to give consent, doesn’t matter they love each other later), no true love’s kiss … that would make for some movie Disney never ever will make.

Will be interesting what is their take on how Maleficent became so “nasty”.

But of course Jolie manages to look flawless, though don’t know what that has to do with being married to Brad Pitt. Seriously, why does that have to be mentioned at all, she is a great actress no matter who she is married to. Jolie has make-up artist on the set seeing to her looking good no matter what. Some people would be surprised how good they would look with a professional taking care of them. Really, sometimes these celeb and movie gossip articles are ridiculous, and badly written. Hidding the lack of truely interesting information.

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[Myril]

Another Peter Pan movie – how imaginative. Not. What about the Little Mermaid live action adaption Joe Wright had signed up to do? Will that now have to wait? Or turn even into one of many projects about interesting female characters that never will see the light of screen?

Other news sources say it’s meant to tell Peter Pan’s origin. How original. The Batman treatment. Joe Wright has a very interesting cineastic style, that is the only for me exciting thing about it (I liked particular his last 2 films Anna Karenina and Hanna), and can guess it won’t be a happy family movie, but still. Just another Peter Pan movie is not what will get me into movie theaters, but guess they don’t will have to worry much about that.

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[Myril]

Enjoyed the episode for the character moments in it, but for my taste of course to little Tinkerbell in it. And a sad reminder, that they messed it up with Red/Ruby. But, as much as I like funny moments, comic relieve – do they want to turn this show into a romantic comedy fairy tale soap opera? Or maybe it was it all along.

starting with the bad:

– The CaptainFireSwan love triangle and particular Neal and Hook squabbling in the Dark Hollow. Really? Dear writers, do you really want to feed some “boys are boys and stupid lovesick males on steroids” stereotypes? Disappointing. No it was not funny (although it was obvious that the actors had some fun with it, which made me grin, and for a second had a Laurel and Hardy feeling). Alright, it is not that easy to find comic relieve at times, can’t be all angsty and serious in this kind of show, but it didn’t work as such if it was even meant as such. There was plenty of comic relieve already in this episode, so this should have been tuned down. Less is more!

– The Home Office. The whole idea was just bad. Was to be expected that somehow the Darlings would be tied into it, but made it not better, agree with TheGoldenKey. Can’t even take it as laughingstock, because it is a part of the “Pan is the big big bad”- story line, as such not the least bit funny. But it was never the least bit scary either. Yes, I agree, we modern idiots like to overdo it with official titles, create agencies for every kind of rubbish, get lost in bureaucrazy (no spelling mistake) and sense inscrutable conspiracy around every corner, love to make plenty of fun of that, but unfortunately this story was never about that. Just hope we can soon finally sneak out of this Home Office disaster and move on. Maybe let it disappear in some twister shark attack?

the very least fave and fave moment:
Red in memoriam moment. Belle being depressed and full self-doubt of course cried for some BFF Red/Ruby support, so no way to avoid noticing the void left. No, Red is not dead and might show up for an episode again, but it was not this one. Sadly. Fanwanking her being busy all over town as interims sheriff, although I know she might not feel quite up to that job. Miss her. But nice that they showed, that she is not forgotten in the writers’ room.

fave moments:
– Snow and Charming squabbling. Oh, Snow can sulk, can she. I liked this little moment when Snow lashed out at Emma in this context, because it happens. And I am right there with Snow, can’t stand either when people hide something to protect a loved one from difficult situations. Yeah, they want to make one happy and not worry or feel any kind of pain, it’s well meant, but it is a sign of not trusting in their ability to take it, be it because they think the person is too vulnerable at the moment, bothered with other stuff, it’s not so important, they can handle it all alone no need to cause worry… whatever. It puts quite a strain on any relationship the moment it comes to light. Been there, on both ends of it. Snow pretty much nailed it: It makes you feel like they stopped believing in you, in your relationship. This is drama, questioning the very core of Snow’s and Charming’s relation.

– Belle’s self-doubts. Rumple leaving her behind made sense, and not just to protect her from, as he believed, seeing him die, but mostly Rumple did leave her behind to protect her from pain and danger. Great that they showed, how it made her doubt herself. Again, well meant protection but seeding feelings of doubt in the person tried to protect. Yes, Belle seemed a tad overly giddy about Pandora’s box, but it was not about Pandora’s box, it was about the trust she felt Rumple had in trusting her with that task (although what choice did he have). It was euphoria because she now is part of Rumple’s live again, could help him, and the good news, that he found a way to beat Pan without getting killed, or at least chance to. So everything she was doing now was exciting, regardless of how dangerous Pandora’s box probably is, and that no one should be thrilled to have it. Have the impression though number of viewers missed the nuance of what’s going on with Belle here. Don’t blame though writing or acting for that here, people miss such nuances fairly often in real life as well.
Not to mention: Belle always gets excited when she finds something in real or can make use of something in real that she’s read about in her books. She is a book geek.

– The dwarfs. They just voiced what most of us dream of in the end, a peaceful, carefree life in some village, town, suburban idyll, where the most worrisome problem of the day is maybe what to eat for dinner, if you use yellow or blue candles on the birthday cake for your kid, or if to wash you Miata this or next weekend. Who cares about the greater good? Let these kings, queens, princesses, princes and wizards and whoever hero folks do their business somewhere else and let us just have our peace. Nice moment.

– Granny! Beverly Elliot just knows how to deliver a line. 🙂

– Tinkerbell. Not enough of her, but something. That accent, lovely. (And it’s kinda odd to see McIver without it in another show, quite a different role there, but interesting, great that she is getting some chance to show her talent at the moment)

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[Myril]

It’s time for some quotes, trouble in paradise this week …
As usual not all serious commentary 😉 😉 😉

Grumpy: “Can we panic now?”
Archie: “Yeah, sure. maybe just a little.”
You can panic if you hear all of a sudden a voice over radio, TV and your smartphone telling, that unfortunately Earth has to make way for some hyperspacial express route so the Vogons are going to tear it down, but only when you’ve forgotten to have your towl with you. Really people, something like some outsider wannabe bad boys coming to town are no reason at all.

Grumpy: “Careful, sister. Mines are a dangerous place.”
Oh, stuff it Grumpy. At least everone who watched Indiana Jones knows that. Books, movies and TV shows are a marvelous source of knowledge exactly for this kind of situation.

Grumpy: “No time for whistlin’, boys. Let’s get swingin’!”
Rock’N’Roll! Okay, different era, different music. Actually I like Swing a tad more. Oh, sorry, we’re talking about hard work not fun.

Belle: “I’ve never cast a spell before.”
there is a first time for everything
Belle (to Blue) “Maybe you should do it.”
haha, good one, ask Miss Performanceproblems to do it
Blue: “No. Mr. Gold entrusted this task to you for a reason. You just need to believe in yourself.”
It’s all about believing. And there always is a reason.

Grumpy: “You might wanna believe a little harder.”
What a cheerleader.

Ariel (to Rumple, about the drawing in the sand): “That’s Storybrooke?”
with some imagination

Ariel: “How do I know you’ll uphold your end of the bargain when I’m back?”
Regina: “Guess you’ll just have to trust me.”
*coughs* not a good policy – let’s talk about a fairy tale insurance

Neal: “I know how to navigate the stars, but I can’t fly.”
You’re joking! You just have to believe.

Emma: ” We’ve never been within 10 feet of Pan unless he wanted us to be. Sneaking up on him to steal his shadow? That sounds insane.”
That’s why it will work

Hook: “Except Pan’s shadow is rarely with him. It’s an entity unto itself. It can carry out his will from miles away.”
Poor Hook, cursed to deliver all the long, boring but needed exposition lines
And, really, I want such a shadow, it can go to work for me while I have more time to watch ridiculous fantasy shows

Emma (to Neal): “Okay, You and I are on shadow duty.”
will try shadow duty as next excuse for missing a day at work, wonder if my boss will accept that

Hook: “This trek won’t be easy. You could use another veteran of the island”
How do you know that someone grew up with Star Trek and less Western… right. (hums, dadiii dadadadadaaaa….) BTW, is there a space opera version of Peter Pan / Neverland?

Emma: “Okay, we meet back at Tink’s”
word. beer or wine?

Happy: “You know I love Snow and Charming, but, can I be honest? It’s kinda nice not having them around… No, really, it’s only five days, but it’s the first five days with no killing.”
Sneezy: “No wraith.”
Doc: “No giants stepping on my Miata:”
Sleepy: “It has been peaceful.”
Oh boys, or dwarfs. Hillybillies 😉

Grumpy: “Snow and Charming are coming back, and everything will remain normal.”
normal in one of the most normal towns around

Guy (Keychaine) : The Home Office was right, she is here.”
No, not the Home Office thing again. Please.
But nice try of a British accent

Granny: “What’s the matter? Too many pickles? Not enough pickles?”
It’s simple: No Red. Oh, wait, of course meant no Rumple.

Granny: “Certainly not my cooking.”
Just got hungry seeing that cheeseburger, so no, certainly not the problem.

Grumpy (to Belle): “‘Cause this little lady just swam a real long way to find you.”
Oh, love… Oops. Okay, maybe I go and ship the pickles and the cheeseburger, I mean, at least they are really meant to be together, are they. And no text or subtext to understand or read into it.

Granny: “Uh, maybe you didn’t notice the sign? No shirt, no shoes, no service.”
Someone has to keep a little order and chastity in this town

Grumpy: “Now you got a dress code? I seem to recall Ruby outfits that seared into my brain.”
Well, Grumpy, Ruby was the one serving, big difference.

Rumple: “The object I need is hidden. But I know that with the strength of our love, you’ll find it.”
Of course it is hidden, and love is the way.

Ariel: “He is really into being cryptic, isn’t he.”
no, he is just a man of words, that’s all

Belle: “He wants my help. He wants me to save him, Henry, everyone.”
Someone had a little crisis here and needed a pep talk.

Snow (to Emma): “It’s good to see you’ve inherited his tunnel vision.”
as long as she sees the greater good in it…

Emma (to Snow): “You say a lot with nothing.”
Oh yes, Snow does. And guess what, Emma, you are her daughter. Speaking of inheriting…

Henry: You’re hiding something from me, and I’m gonna find out what it is.”
Spy kid 101: Never ever tell what you are going to do.

Pan: “He just requires… some effort. Given his lineage, I’d expect nothing less.”
Really? Because of his lineage?

Hook: “Our dalliance.”
just some flirt, don’t worry Neal

Emma: “Everything allright?”
Neal: “Couldn’t be better.”
Don’t you ever learn… more lies

Hook (to Neal): “A coconut? Are you daft?”
This show eventually will expand the vocabulary not just of some teenagers. Nope, Daft Punk weren’t the first to use the word daft. You could say, nuts.

Neal (to Hook): “You came to Neverland on a pirate ship through a portal. But you draw the line at a magic coconut?”
Do the writers want to tell us something, us the nitpicking audience?

Hook: “What’s our next stop on this mission?”
Neal: “Dark Hollow”
Emma: “Why couldn’t it be called something like Sunshine Valley or Rainbow Cove?”
Because this is not a Marry Poppins show (and Sunshine Valley is like 2 hours from Vancouver)

Hook: “Just what it sounds like… the darkest spot on the entire island. Any light that makes its way in is snuffed out by the shadows that call it home.”
Mr. Exposition again (a role Hook shares somewhat with Henry)… So like any goth teenager room?

Ariel: “This is a…”
Belle: “Corkscrew. But it’s not what Rumple needs.”
Are you sure? And more household lessons for an aspiring mermaid future princess

Ariel: “He’s a prince.The kind with legs.”
Oh, there are other kinds?

Ariel: “That’s a …”
Belle: “Teacup.”
Ariel: “It’s chipped.”
Belle: “I know.”
The profundity of this dialogue is maybe too much for the casual viewer.

Belle: “But no matter how much this thing has been through, it’s survived. Just like our love.”
Tissues please, and some more string and harp music for the underscore

Belle: “Pandora’s box. Legend says it contains the world’s darkest evil.
Ariel:”Shouldn’t you be wearing gloves or something?”
smart woman

Guy (Glasses): “All that trouble for a box.”
Indeed, it’s so ridiculous.

Ariel: “I don’t understand. Why do we keep doing what he tells is us?”
Belle: “Because he has a gun.”
Ariel: “What is a gun?”
Guy (Glasses): “Trust me, you don’t want to find out.”
Maybe she should know to make sure she does what you are telling her? Just saying.
Maybe she knows what a pistol is though, or a cannon, pirates have that kind of stuff…

Guy (Keychain): “Yes, we know exactly who we’re working for.”
Yeah, someone does.

Charming “And even though it might seem like it wasn’t fair, that’s all I was trying to do… be fair.
Snow: “I think, Tinkerbell is that way.”
Who wants to hear some stupid talk about being fair or not when there is an ex-fairy named Tinkerbell to look for?

Hook: “I thought Emma would wish to have something to remember you by.
Neal:”Oh. Thanks. She’s got me now.”
the cutlass might be more useful

Emma: “You are a pirat.”
Hook: “Yeah, that I am. But I also believe in good form. So when I win your heart, Emma, and I will win it, it will not be because of any trickery. It will be because you want me.”
old school gentleman pirate, so to speak

Hook (to Emma): “I’ve yet to see you fail. And when you do succeed… well that’s when the fun begins.”
what a believer. and romantic. a pirate.

Belle: “They’re too tight.”
Ariel: “We’ll find a way out.”
Belle: “What makes you so sure?”
Ariel: “Because… I’m an optimist.”
Belle. I wish I could be, but every time I try to be a hero, it just… feels like it backfires.”
Oh dear, some crisis of confidence here, needs more pep talk. But not talking about corsets this time.

Charming: “Were almost at Tink’s… I see why she picked this area. Nice quiet jungle. Might make a good spot for a hut, don’t you think? Or a tree house, if you prefer that.”
Maybe not the right time for thoughts about house-hunting.

Snow: I would happily build a treehouse and spend the rest of my days dodgin poison arrows and lost boys, as long as I had you by my side.”
true love

Snow: “You didn’t believe, David. You needed to believe in us.”
It’s about believing. Just for anyone who didn’t get it so far.

Neal: “Welcome to the 21st century.”
Ah, the arrogance of modern times, we are such advanced people

Emma: “Guys, we don’t have time for this.”
Indeed, kindergarten wannabe heros (and obviously they had way too much fun to play it, boys)

Belle: “That’s impossible. You’d be…
Guy (Glasses): “…Dead. We’re well aware. Pan has kept us alive to do his bidding.”
Oh really, all possible questions answered, so stop whinging, dear nitpicking fans.

Guy (Keychain): “We tried to be heroes, but it just made things worse.”
Leave it to the professionals

Wendy: “Am I… am I free?”
Pan: “Not yet, Wendy. But that doesn’t mean you can’t come out and play.”
Very sure I am not the only one thinking that this now was really creepy, the sort of abuse creepy. Time to talk with your kids.

Henry (to Wendy): I’ll come back for you, I’ll promise.
At least no, “will find you wherever you are”. Not yet that is.

Pan: “Don’t think of it as lying. Think of it as… providing motivation.”
sounding like some sneaky sales trainer

Pan: “See, Henry has the heart of the truest believer. And I need to control that belief.”
sounds like some sneaky sales trainer, uhm, no this time it’s religious enticer and pseudo guru, there is a slight difference, I believe

Rumple: “Or perhaps it’s my feeling illuminating me.”
another believer, uh true lover

Rumple: “Is that jealousy?”
Regina: “Of Belle? I think not”
Rumple: “No. no. Of having someone.”
tackling a thorny issue, one Rumple happily cashed in on

Emma: “We almost lost our shot at capturing the shadow because you two were fighting over a lighter.”
the fun of love triangles. and men behaving like teenagers

Tinkerbell: “Yeah, I’m not lifting a finger until I see some proof that you’ve actually succeeded.”
smart woman, believing is not everything, not every time. And that accent, lovely.

Pan (to Henry): “Why so glum, chum.”
Neverland is such a happy, happy place

Henry: “So I’m the only one who can save magic?”
whatever you are made to believe in

Pan: “Inside is where our salvation awaits… a salvation that only the heart of the truest believer can bring. … It won’t be easy. It will require heroism and sacrifice. The only question is, are you up to the task?”
so Pan will finally become the God of the Pan-Sect, no thanks
Go, watch some episode of Criminal Minds, and then this episode again, it’s interesting

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

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