[Myril]

@The Auburn Girl wrote:

Did anyone else notice or catch THE MISTAKE AND PROBLEM made in “The Cricket Game” in the final scene between Queen Regina and Rumplestiltskin about the Dark Curse? Please bear with me; I believe my point to be valid. (…)

No mistakes made, but it seems to confuse some people

The timeline (with a few more events to give orientation, but not all events shown in flashback so far):

Someone creates the Dark Curse. Good guess is Rumple, but we can’t be sure of that. (not shown yet)

At some unknown point Rumple gave Regina the Dark Curse for whatever deal. When exactly and how and why then hasn’t been told in the show so far. Out of whatever reason though Regina didn’t make use of it at that point. (not shown so far, but in 1×02 we learn she had that curse and traded it)

Regina has the idea to go after Snow by using the Sleeping Curse. She trades the Dark Curse for the Sleeping Curse with Maleficent,(based on what we learn in 1×02), probably because she finds it at that time useless for her goal. Can only speculate why Maleficent traded it for her Sleeping Curse. Maybe she considered it to take revenge on Aurora’s mother / family? But for sure Maleficent didn’t use the curse.(Another interesting story not told so far)

Regina sends Hansel and Gretel to get a magic apple from the Blind Witch (not to confuse with the other that later was at the meeting when Regina first tried to enact the Dark Curse) (1×09). She combines it with the Sleeping Curse (or she alread did that, then traded the cursed apple and needs it back, but think the first idea works better). (that is a guess, based on what Rumple tells in 2×08 about Regina inventing a new method to deliver the Sleeping Curse) (this could have happened before the trade or after, but around that time)

King Georg captures Charming, Regina trades him for some riches, and then pressures Snow into taking a bite of the cursed apple. Snow under Sleeping Curse (1×21)

Charming escapes Regina with the help of the huntsman, but Regina manages to sent him into the Infinite Forest. Rumple shows up, offers Charming help to get out of the forest and find Snow. As deal he makes him hid the love potion with Maleficent. Charming does that, then finds Snow and the magic kiss happens. (ep 1×22)

Snow and Charming go after King Georg and Regina. They defeat King Georgs army and capture Regina, the Evil Queen. (this episode)

Rumple makes a deal with Snow, and creates a protection spell, making it impossible for Regina to harm Snow or Charming in “this land” (aka Enchanted Forest, Fairy Tale Land). They ban Regina. (this episode)

Shortly after: Rumple visits Regina and points out to her, that she can’t harm Snow or Charming in this land, but doesn’t mean she can’t harm them in another land. That is when Regina remembers the Dark Curse – and let’s her father get the carriage, she has a wedding to get to. (in this episode)

Regina crashes the wedding at the castle and tells everybody there, she’s going to destroy their happiness (pilot)

Regina goes and gets the curse back from Maleficent (1×02)

Sometime between that and the enacting of the curse Hook sneaks into Regina’s palace to get information from Belle, who is kept there. Regina catches him and offers a deal, sending him to take the heart of her mother Cora. Hooks goes to Wonderland, and Cora makes a new deal with him. Hook brings back Cora to the Enchanted Forest, seemingly dead. (2×09)

Some months after the wedding Regina enacts the curse. To do it she has to kill her father. Emma is born and escapes the curse via the magic wardrobe (pilot, 1×02)

It is an interesting question, why she got or had the curse before and traded it with Maleficent. But it’s just that this story hasn’t been told so far on the show.

[Myril]

@dub1026 wrote:

@myril wrote:

Rumple making Emma use magic. Snow wasn’t the only one feeling uncomfortable with that. It gave me the creeps. Emma having magic, and using magic is one thing, but letting Rumple show her how to use it even for just a moment – he of all people! No good thing. And what irony that then Regina is the one to tell Emma, all magic comes with a price. Well, Regina most certainly does know, and especially if it comes to Rumple.

I kind of like that Rumple is helping Emma. He too, is trying to redeem himself with Belle, and be a better person. Maybe this(using GOOD magic), and finding his son, is exactly what he needs! 😛

Let’s see … Rumpel taught Cora how to use magic – she likes to rip out hearts, kill innocent people, is nearly as manipulative as Rumple, breaks her daughter to turn her into what she wants her to be, so great teaching. Rumple taught Regina – who became the vengeful Evil Queen destroying most of the magical lands besides all the harm she did before to people. Rumple is really a great teacher.

Right, he only taught them magic, maybe manipulated them into to doing some things, still can’t and won’t blame him for all the wrong doings and choises of these two women, in the end they are responsible for what they did. But I don’t care, that he tries to redeem himself for Belle, he would have sacrificed Snow and Emma to save his own skin, and I’m convinced he still would do it any time it might seem necessary to him. He is still manipulative, and toying with people. Better person? He might be trying, but wouldn’t trust him to teach Emma the way of magic.

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[Myril]

First the least favorite moments:

The execution scene. Sorry, but I giggled watching it, it was comical that they tried to execute Regina with arrows, what unfortuantely killed the scene for me. Too bad, the Evil Queen had some moment in it.

From a more inside the story poin of view:
Snow and Charming just banning Regina. Should have thought at least they would try to restrict her in some way from finding (new) means for magic. Great, Snow and Charming were protected from Regina thanks to Rumple (what a fishy gift, not much of a deal, that should have set of red alert), so able to go after her any time again if necessary, but did they really expect her to just sit around idle, alone in misery? And they let her stay in “her” castle (which would have been rightful Snow’s, not that I think she would have liked that architectural monstrosity back, but still).

Rumple making Emma use magic. Snow wasn’t the only one feeling uncomfortable with that. It gave me the creeps. Emma having magic, and using magic is one thing, but letting Rumple show her how to use it even for just a moment – he of all people! No good thing. And what irony that then Regina is the one to tell Emma, all magic comes with a price. Well, Regina most certainly does know, and especially if it comes to Rumple.

Favorite moments:

Lana Parilla! All of the cast did a great job, but she was making it so impossible not to have at least a bit of sympathy for Regina here. Not to mention her delivering some of the best lines of the episode. And Robert Carlyle got to play playfull evil Rumple again, always a joy. One complaint: do they have to make the bad guys on this show so enjoyable?!? 😉 😆

Particular enjoyed any scene with Regina and Emma, aka Lana Parilla and Jennifer Morisson, in this episode (well, most of the time do). I can watch them sparring for hours. I mean, wow, have to have some trust in each other as actresses to pull off such scenes in such a way.

Same goes for the scene between Snow and the Evil Queen.

Hook and Cora in the final scene talking about Archie. Evil.

On a lighter note:
Emma and Henry crashing Snow’s and Charming’s happy cozy reunion. Hilarious. Now whenever I make / eat tacos will have a giggle (did so today, coincidence)

Regina entering the diner saying with an unsure smile, “Sorry, I’m late.” This time not crashing a wedding, but seeing how the story is somewhat mirrored at this point (the scenes in FTL play shortly before the big wedding of Snow and Charming), it’s such a fun to see this moment.

Some lines I loved:

Regina (to Archie) Need I to remind you, you got your doctor from a curse.

Regina (to Red) Go, take yourself for a walk!

Emma (to Red) Never mind, the wolf thing.

Hook (to Cora): Well, aren’t you mom of the year.

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[Myril]

@Hellraiser-89 wrote:

It’s annoying how inconsistent characters are and do whatever needs to be done for the plot regardless of previous episodes. I’m thinking about David here, since he’s been there when Snow and Emma where away in FTL and Regina did show him several times that she was changing compared to in this episode how he swiftly made his mind up about her.

Being inconsistent is very human. David trusted Regina with Henry, with some reason, but he didn’t trust her per se. And whatever seriousness to change Regina showed the past 2-3 weeks (wasn’t much more than that), there was someone they trusted killed now and by Regina – or so they were led to believe. After all what Regina did in the past hard not to assume she was back to her evil self. The characters don’t know what we as audience know.

And Rumple. He was about to let Regina get hit by the arrows, which would have defeated his entire time manipulating her to cast the curse. Sure BF stopped the arrows but what if she hadn’t? I guess he would’ve just started over from scratch with a new apprentice.

He would have eventually intervened at that point already – if necessary. But Snow did that, so no need to do anything for him.

Emma’s lie detector power seems to be inconsistent as well. She saw Hook lied immediately in FTL for instance.

No lie detection is all reliable. It’s about spotting signs in body language, facial expressions, and voice tone – what gives hints that someone could be lying, but they are only hints. Basically these hints are only suggesting, that there is a discrepancy between what someone says and what they are feeling at that very moment, or how they are feeling about what they are saying, and such discrepancies can have different reasons, lying is just one possible reason. Even people rather good at it are never ever 100 percent right, they are just slightly better than random guessing would do. It’s not a power (only Emma called it one when talking to children) it’s an aquired skill. Some people seem to be natural talents at it, because they had no formal training, but they had years of experience with lies. And they say, it takes a liar to know one, something scientific research recently seemed to support, and something I think is very true for Emma. Don’t see any inconsistencies here, more a writing that thankfully is not pretending that lie detection is an always sure thing for anyone.

I loved Regina and i liked Hook and Cora’s scenes. It was fun to see Zelenka appear as the fish guy lol. So far we’ve had portals, Atlantis’ shield, a Wraith, Beckett and Zelenka so I wonder what the next Stargate related thing will be 😛

Yup, was fun to see him. But they’re filming in Vancouver, so somewhat to expect to see one or the other from Stargate or series like Smallville and Sanctuary here again (like Meghan Ory, who played a guest character on Sanctuary in one episode).

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[Myril]

@TheGoldenKey wrote:

In the end, it’s all make believe. I can’t put any weight into whether they are following appropriate adoption laws when I see the Queen of Hearts, standing by an invisible ship, alongside Captain Hook and turning a man into a fish. Fantasy.

Now I can’t help it and think of all the paper work they normally would have to do to get permissions to do magic in real world if this were any real. 🙄 😆

@EvilQueen wrote:

@TheGoldenKey wrote:

Are we really willing to forget mommy dearest’s baking activities that landed her adoptive son in the hospital, at death’s door? I think any rights were long done after that shinning moment of motherhood.

Your argument is INVALID. At no point Regina meant the turnover for Henry and you’re making it sound as if she purposely poisoned her own son. If you state this as a bad example of motherhood, I may equally say that Emma is to be blamed too for letting Henry eat it in the first place. That’s how little sense it makes.

Regina endangered Henry. She might not have planned for him to get in harms way, but she could have very well considered, that Emma could get the idea to share it with Henry when parting for example. Emma on the other hand didn’t know and at that point wouldn’t have guessed, that the turnover was poisoned – so what is she to blame for?For not believing and not knowing?

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[Myril]

@TheGoldenKey wrote:

@myril wrote:

Mostly agree with Snow and Charming being bad rulers of their kingdom. Not being able to harm them didn’t mean, that Regina couldn’t still have tried to pay back by harming everybody else they love or care about (so pretty much everybody else, as ruler they should care about their people). At best it was naiv, maybe hoping, that if they were protected, Regina wouldn’t dare to attack anyone else to get back on them, after all they could have gone after her again if. Well, good people sometimes lack the imagination what evil people are capable of (and I say so despite that I think, that no one is all good or all evil, but indeed mostly good people sometimes seem to lack what one might call evil creativity and imagination, they may just don’t want to believe, that anyone is capable of some things).

Again, I see things somewhat differently. Snow, as a young girl, was quite in awe of Reggie. She truly loved her and looked up to her. It was only after Snow became an adult and Reggie murdered her father that she saw that evil side to her. Thus, she was torn between love (for Reggie) and hate (for EQ) all throughout their FTL relationship.

I see both her and Charming as kind, just and righteous rulers. They believe in the goodness of all people. Now Charming was ready to execute EQ However, seeing as there were such strong emotional ties between Snow & EQ, it wasn’t as easy for Snow. She knew the kind gentle young Reggie. This wasn’t some stranger that was an enemy of the state. It was her step mother, one she had loved for well over a decade. Can’t even begin to imagine the torment she must have gone through.

I’m sure they believed in having her banished she would no longer pose any threat to them or the kingdom. I’d rather someone error on the side of right then wrong. They made a mistake, it happens. Doesn’t mean that they weren’t strong, kind and fair rulers.

I meant being bad, or should maybe say mislead in this particular case, not in general. And I very much see where Snow has been coming from, can understand it. (I loved, that the writers did this, it was very much in character for her, anything else would have been mediocre writing.) Nevertheless, it was some huge mistake they made here. And I think Snow questioned herself later for that (remember what she said in the pilot), maybe still does. Banishing was obviously not enough. Not saying they should have killed Regina, but find some way to control her magic. They later locked up Rumple, didn’t they.

At least Snow though made it very clear when they let Regina go: that she would kill Regina, if she would ever hurt anyone in their kingdom again.

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[Myril]

@NONNIE wrote:

Regina has some legitimate concerns about loosing HENRY to Emma, as an adoptive parent she must be terrified. I do think she set herself up for some of this because she tried to control Henry and create doubt in himself.

What the writers have not ventured into was the adoption legitimate? Yes Emma gave him up for adoption; but how did Henry end up in SB? I have been reading / hearing a lot of bloggers/ tumblers / pdC that do not like the thought of adoptive parents being challenged… Adoptive parents worse fear.

I have plenty of doubts the adoption of Henry was a normal, legal adoption process. Single parents are not high on any adaption list, the chance that Regina would have gotten a 3 weeks old baby in any all legal way is close to zero. Doubt if checked by our (real) world laws, by authorities from our world, this adoption would uphold.

Morally: Neither Regina nor Emma are good mothers depending on point of view and who you might feel more sympathy for. Right, Regina took care of Henry in his first ten years, and she is quite sure convinced, she did love him all the time, although she has sometimes a bit of a twisted understanding of what love means (no surprise with such a mother like Cora), but can have some doubts about her motives to adopt a kid in the first place. Emma gave Henry up for adoption convinced she couldn’t take care of him, trusting a system more than herself, but she has feelings for him, she does care about him and now wants to take up the task. But more important than how Emma or Regina feel about is to me, how Henry feels about it and sees it, he is the one to be asked and be considered, he comes first. And looks very much like Henry does look at Emma as his mother, but as well does see that Regina despite all did take care of him and calls her mother as well. Not sure, what he will call her now, how his feelings will be after the news of Archie’s supposed, but still.

I personally feel that both Emma and Regina need to put differences aside and do what is best for him. Henry loves them both and can not be divided and should not be put into the middle… HEART ACHE will result from that course of action.

N

Agreed. But it’s fiction, drama, so don’t exepect that any time soon to happen.

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[Myril]

Mostly agree with Snow and Charming being bad rulers of their kingdom. Not being able to harm them didn’t mean, that Regina couldn’t still have tried to pay back by harming everybody else they love or care about (so pretty much everybody else, as ruler they should care about their people). At best it was naiv, maybe hoping, that if they were protected, Regina wouldn’t dare to attack anyone else to get back on them, after all they could have gone after her again if. Well, good people sometimes lack the imagination what evil people are capable of (and I say so despite that I think, that no one is all good or all evil, but indeed mostly good people sometimes seem to lack what one might call evil creativity and imagination, they may just don’t want to believe, that anyone is capable of some things)

Don’t agree on Emma being naiv or inconsistent. Maybe Gold could have tricked them, okay, he was the only one who seemed to know about what a dreamcatcher can be good for, so right, can’t be sure this were indeed Pongo’s memories. But it wasn’t like she was all trusting Gold, and very sure not at first. Now, we know, he didn’t trick them, those were Pongo’s memories. What bugged me about it a little though was, that eventually looking at these memories just some seconds longer might have shown them something else – but Emma was too emotional to hold it up any longer I guess, she dropped the dreamcatcher.

And because I think, they could have seen more, don’t think Cora had that in mind when letting Pongo alive. She might have done it on purpose nevertheless. She needed him to stay quite while doing her show and kidnapping Archie, but later very well served to alert someone, that something did happen to Archie (wonder if the paralyzing spell just wore off after some time or if she set Pongo free at a time it suited her).

Emma was harsh to Regina after she was convinced, that Regina did kill Archie, true. And right, legally Regina still would have the rights of a mother, and not Emma. But, we’re not in some normal town here, it’s not like our laws really apply to Storybrooke. So we have to talk about moral. We know, that for a change Regina is innocent, but Emma doesn’t. Emotions were running high.

We were meant to feel for Regina here. In contrast to what they told happened in the Enchanted Forest before she enacted the curse, the way that was told we should see there more her evil side. Like that the writers did that. Of course turned out in the end again, that Rumple played them all (what an imp he is). And now Cora played them in present Storybrooke.

@EvilQueen wrote:

Now there’s absolutely NOTHING that will help Regina, nothing can be unsaid and obviously she’ll come back to the dark side.

Not giving up all hope for Regina, but it was not to be expected to be ever easy for her.

Other things:

The dreamcatcher – very interesting. There was a dreamcatcher in Neal’s apartment, probably the one he once “found” together with Emma. So, now let’s go for some happy speculations! 😛

That execution scene, hmmmm. It didn’t hit me that much in the sneak peek, but seriously, excuting someone with shooting arrows at them is a very ineffective, unreliable and even cruel way. A skilled beheading is a quicker death – and we know, they had guillotines in the Enchanted Forest, King Georg wanted to use one on Charming (and they were here in that very same castle). (And didn’t see a dramaturgical advantage to use arrows instead)

Regina had the best lines in this episode
to Archie: Doctor? Doctor. Need I remind you, you got your doctor from a curse.
to Red: Private conversation. Go take yourself for a walk!

And Hook to Cora: Well, aren’t you mom of the year. 😆

A few minor weaknesses in the writing, but all in all it was a great episode, a good kick-off for the second half of the season, with some interesting character and overall story development and things to think about.

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[Myril]

@TheGoldenKey wrote:

I don’t know about Barrett being just an ordinary person. Whoever he is, I don’t think we’ll be finding out until next season. I’m leaning towards Peter Pan (although I’ve said a million times that I’m still hoping Nealfire turns out to be Peter).

Being from our world doesn’t have to mean, that he is ordinary, or ordinary only in the sense, that he has no colorful magical realms past. The more I think of it, the more I like the idea to bring someone from our world into the mix. Access to magic, dark magic, means to power – that can be tempting. Not sure if this Barrett is it, it might be too early to bring up such a story arc, but think it would be interesting to explore it.

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[Myril]

@once upon a reality wrote:

I’m happy Emma is taking a stand! Emma did the right thing! Did anyone eles notice how layed back Emma was dress?

Like a lot how she’s dressing in this episode (what we can tell from the sneak peeks). Classy and still simple and casual. Slight change in wardrobe?
Emma has all reason to be more confident now again. She survived some ogres, dead people attacking her, Cora attacking her, and she has a better idea, where she’s coming from.

@EvilQueen wrote:

All right, am I the only one picking on Henry being up to something?
He tried so hard for Emma not to walk him to school which is really odd since he loved spending time with her. And she’s just came back from the FTL – after all this time of missing and worrying about her, ‘the usual Henry’ wouldn’t leave her for a second! (he would also be asking way more questions about her adventures but I guess he must have been told all the stories in the ‘off screen’ time).
Instead, he was finding millions excuses to be walked to school alone – and when Pongo arrives and Emma finally agrees to that, he just says ‘ok’ and he’s gone. Now, ‘the usual Henry’ would have been way more interested in what was happening with the dog and his first reaction would’ve been more along the lines “Cool, “wolf thing”, what do WE do?”. He would probably even find some name for the ‘operation’. But this time, he gives the story a miss, even though Red seems to be really worried…
If you ask me, this is VERY UNLIKE HENRY, I don’t believe he’s not up to something!

Maybe he’s growing up 😉
No, you’re right, Henry was way too eager to walk alone to school.

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