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MysteryKat25Participant
Agreed on all counts. The more I think about it the sicker I feel. It’s ridiculous and annoying.
PAINFUL THINGS have happened on the show. I get that and some people will feel the effects of it long after others have moved on but I really really hope that every interview in the future isn’t a constant reminder of what happened in the past instead of focusing on what is going on now.
So beyond annoyed that she felt the need to explain herself more fully. Totally understand the defensive nature of things but I feel like it just makes it worse. On top of that, it panders to the crowd that says “if he weren’t dead…” because she left room for “Well maybe” – well maybe my foot.
It is her JOB to know her character and what they think and feel about things. She is COMPLETELY allowed to explain what has ACTUALLY HAPPENED on the show and include in that a list of the betrayals Emma feels because guess what – EMMA FEELS THEM.
I really don’t care whether ANY fans feel that those reasons are legit or not. You know why? Because it does not matter. We are not Emma. JMO on the other hand has to BE Emma and understand her character motivation to do so. So why is it SO FAR OUT THERE that she can *gasp* say what Emma feels and thinks? She was well within her rights as oh, a HUMAN BEING as well as the actress who is ACTUALLY PLAYING THAT CHARACTER to express what her character has gone through on the show, IN CANON and yes, even include some things that “fans’ rather Emma just pretend never happened.
Well guess what – imitating an ostrich does not change the facts. It doesn’t. Emma UNDERSTANDS the past now. She gets it, she’s made peace with that’s how things ended up, and they got back to a good and friendly place for the sake of their son by the time he died. He will always be a part of her and a big part of what shaped who she is as well as an important thread in the fabric of the show, but it DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS.
Emma was not interested in going back. She did not crumble to bits and go on some mission to destroy the universe like basically everyone else who has lost their true love has. She TRULY LOVED him when she was a teenager, and things have happened since then and it WOULD be VERY DIFFICULT for someone like Emma to go back to that place after having faced so many betrayals from him REGARDLESS of the reasons behind them.
There’s a popular saying about villains that in their own mind, they’re the heroes. The same is true for anyone no matte WHAT their reasoning is for doing anything, it does not change how it is perceived by someone else.
It makes me sick that she constantly feels the need to explain and say “well yeah maybe if could have gone that way” BUT she made sure to clarify that even and say that she thinks it would have been very very difficult for her to come around to that. As we’ve discussed ad naseum, trust issues don’t just disappear and this person has consistently shown THROUGH HIS ACTIONS that he’s not always there for her 100%.
(I hear people screaming already and I’ve read more than enough similar comments directed at JMO for actually daring to speak the truth but it is what it is. Yes he did some great things too and they were in a good place when he died but they were also in a FRIENDLY place. They were in a FRIENDLY place as well in S2 when he wasn’t pushing for more from her. She was able to forgive and let go of some things to have him in her life but not in a ROMANTIC capacity.)
JMO merely spoke the truth about what happened in canon on the show and what Emma thought of it. It DOES NOT MATTER what anybody ELSE thinks about it because EMMA is the one who had to live through it and only she knows exactly what that did to her and her trust issues.
So many times lately she’s spoken about how great Killian is for her because he’s encouraging her to embrace who she is and become the best version of herself. That’s what Emma needs and I’m sorry but that’s not what Neal ever was for her in present day when they were reunited. It was never going to be that. Otherwise why highlight the number of times he put her down and doubted her? Or didn’t approve of her magic? Was he impressed with her on occasion? Sure. And he had her back when he could when he was right there already. But it’s the choices we make that define who we are and sometimes he didn’t make the choices that were overly supportive and he didn’t put her first when he should have.
Taking Bae out of the mix, and pretending Neal isn’t related to Rumple or FTL or anything like that, and just making him an average guy on the street who did these things to Emma, looking solely at the facts and through her eyes, I don’t see how you can come to any conclusion other than what JMO herself has said about how EMMA feels.
Is it SAD that Neal was hurt she might have moved on with Hook? Is it SAD that he died? ABSOLUTELY. It’s painful to watch anyone be hurt & not end up with who they thought they would end up with, but if they’re not right for each other, then they’re not right for each other.
I really really resent the fact that almost all interviewers these days feel the need to put “but she thinks neal’s dead / neal is dead now” in front of everything CS and I hope that garbage stops soon. It’s bad enough the actors now feel the need to talk about things that are over and done with and WERE handled blatantly on the show just because people refuse to believe anything they say.
I just want them to be able to talk about what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING in canon and not in the fans minds at this point. It was a tragic loss but it didn’t ultimately affect the outcome of Emma’s love life. With or without Neal in the picture, Emma was always drawn to Hook. With or without Neal in the picture, Emma was ready to move on from Neal. With or without Neal in the picture, Emma was ready to let Killian in.
As I stated earlier, she gave up EVERYTHING to make sure that Killian’s life was saved. The beyond obvious parallels to Snowing throughout the ENTIRE CaptainSwan story should have been a huge neon sign (along with the anti-parallels of Neal/Emma & Rumple/Milah).
I’m SORRY that people are hurting they were wrong & didn’t get their way, but that is NO REASON to attack the actors. I can’t even begin to fathom how some of them are still on twitter at this point. It’s disgusting. They owe us NOTHING. They are doing their jobs and their jobs including knowing what is going on in the minds of their characters and whether you believe it or not, what JMO said was TRUE and what actually happened ON THE SHOW and makes perfect, logical sense given what we’ve seen. It truly baffles me that people are hating on her for this other than annoyed she mentions him at all which is 99% of the time the interviewers fault in the first place.
Seriously, BLAME THEM for constantly bringing up the past and making it seem like it’s the reason when it’s not. I’m sure she’d be more than happy to talk about how HAPPY she is that Emma FINALLY has someone in her life who is so supportive of her and believes in her and puts her first and would rather focus on THAT than rehashing the same stuff about how wrong for her a certain someone else was. Back in the day he wasn’t wrong for her (other than legally), but that’s not who she is now and she has EVERY RIGHT IN THE WORLD to feel betrayed by him regardless of the reasoning. ALL of S3 was showcasing that more & more and people still refuse to believe that Emma might have felt the way she did. So just attack JMO instead for being honest and trying to put it to rest once and for all. That makes sense.
I don’t know how much more obvious she could have been while simultaneously being diplomatic. I HATE with a firey passion the fact that she feels the need to pander though. She’d get attacked more if she were blunt like I’d want to be. Her long response was very well put that she isn’t writing the show and she misses working with MRJ etc, but that doesn’t change what has actually happened on the show. These are things her character has ACTUALLY gone through. WE as an audience have the benefit of seeing all the puzzle pieces and looking at it from different angles and seeing how it affected other characters and wishing that so and so would just see how much such and such is hurting for having screwed up and give them another chance. I have a lot of ships like that! I totally get it. But it doesn’t mean that Emma OWES anybody anything and JMO sure doesn’t either.
I. FEEL. SICK. (and don’t get me started on the letter to the writers so help me I want to throw things. How dare anybody tell a writer what their story is or isn’t. You can interpret it any way you like but to be so emotionally abusive toward them and throw in so many inaccuracies about what has actually happened is absurd. Think and feel however you want and express it in a calm and rational manner if you must tell them how you feel but this fandom makes me feel that being a part of a fandom is some kind of disease.)
And WE’RE supposed to be the delusional ones? If following canon and learning to go with whatever actually happens is delusional then sign me up but I think people use that word a bit too often and clearly have no idea what it means – or when it might apply to them.
I have never been so appalled in my life. No wonder not many writers interact on a regular basis on twitter. I can only imagine THEIR timelines (Adam’s is bad enough). Makes total sense to me now. I really want to publish and use a pseudy-nym anyway but I’m almost afraid of setting up any online presence just because I don’t really want to see what *some* “fans” think. There will always be those rational few who are upset and with good reason and it’s a perfectly valid criticism held by many many people (I think most of us around here can agree about Little Women at least?) but I’m sick of the fans being attacked for being right, or shipping what’s canon, and I understand Adam getting it to a degree because he is the one making the decisions (along with Eddy of course but he wisely stays away from twitter), but to see the ACTORS getting hated on? Seriously?
I think Sean has the best attitude about it out of anybody but it astounds me that people actually send hate to actors for being (or in today’s case not being) in a certain relationship. They’re doing their JOBS. Every character is important and serves a purpose and it is beyond annoying to not only demand to go against canon but be downright rude & verbally abusive to the actors just trying to work with what they’ve been given. I’m sorry if people don’t love the way they all look or act or that they’re involved in something that some fans don’t approve of. It’s like the people who harrassed Sean’s wife for supporting her husband and his CANON RELATIONSHIP with Regina. People blasted her for supporting the ship HER HUSBAND IS ACTUALLY IN. Like…seriously? But he has the best attitude.
Sadly sarcasm doesn’t come through the internet very well so people like Sean and Adam who fight back with sass just “offend” people even more. I long for the days when people weren’t so offended. I really do. I can’t remember a time when this much fuss was made about anything so I guess I’ve been lucky and able to block a LOT of it out over the years. We live in a time where people will hate on absolutely ANYTHING and the mob mentality of the internet is astounding. If you look hard enough for faults you will ALWAYS find them. Maybe look for something more productive to do instead of harassing actors for the show not going your way and if you hate it that much? Maybe find something else to watch. Hate-watching is poisonous and just infects the rest of the fandom. So sick of it. And this? This is why I’ve stayed away so much. Unbelievable. Makes me really really disgusted that as a Oncer I’m lumped in with some horrible people.
And to think Jen is in Monte Carlo PROMOTING THE SHOW and being so sweet and doing interviews and having a great time only to come back to hateful messages from the “fans” that she has been so complimentary of. Unbelievable.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantLong time no write! Sorry this is going to be super long. I haven’t written in awhile because I keep deleting my rants while this fandom drives me insane but I couldn’t keep quiet about this. *cookies in advance* I love you guys (even the non-CS lurkers) but I’m seriously upset right now and tired of biting my tongue. (Feel free to skip I know it’s super long – sorry *writes & then goes back to tumblr cave*)
This is beyond maddening. JMO has been COMPLETELY CONSISTENT since way back in early S2. In fact, the interviews after Manhattan especially are EXTREMELY telling. She specifically said that Emma wanted him in Henry’s life at that point but that she didn’t want to get back together with him.
It is her JOB to know her character and their mindset. She has to know what her character is feeling and going through, ESPECIALLY for complex emotional things like running into the ex / father of your son who left you in jail.
I think people confuse complex emotions with whatever their headcanon is. Of COURSE Emma has a lot of feelings about things with Neal. It’s the jealous/non-jealous nonsense all over again, but those complex emotions are there and they have to be. It doesn’t mean she ever would have gone back to him.
Also, again way back in S2 long before they decided to kill him off in S3, JMO was saying that Neal betrayed Emma MULTIPLE TIMES, it’s not JUST the jail thing. She “understands” what happened now and found a way to move past it like she has with understanding that Snow & Charming gave her up as a kid but just like knowing that doesn’t erase 28 years of feeling like an orphan, knowing why Neal left her behind doesn’t erase the decade of complete torture she went through.
I feel like a lot of SF people have a similar type of relationship to this but with A&E. That love & absolute trust went out the window and will NEVER be the same no matter what happens. Even if they stick around and watch and try to find some things to love, it won’t be the way it was and they’ll always be leery and untrusting of EVERYTHING. This is EXACTLY what Emma went through and that is NOT GOOD in a romantic relationship.
Could they have fixed it? Maybe. They did a good job on OUATIW of fixing a relationship that caused a lot of pain & grief (and in a very short time too!), but they didn’t go that route here & never intended to.
They ALWAYS (their word) wanted Hook. They mentioned it constantly about having wanted him in S1. They “tested” him and it worked and their audio commentaries even from S2 were just so thankful that it DID work because that’s the story they had in mind ALL ALONG and were thankful they got to go that route. They upped him to regular before his episodes even aired because this was their plan all along.
As I’ve said before (I think), there was a lot of time between Tallahassee and Manhattan. The key was what the relationship looked like when Emma and Neal were reunited and that episode? Was all about how they might not be meant for anything other than to be Henry’s parents, and paralleled blatantly to Milah/Rumple. I don’t see how it’s possible to miss the very very very obvious parallels in that episode which was long after they saw that Hook worked into their plans perfectly for 2×04-2×06 & went forward with that relationship like they always wanted to. If he hadn’t met their standards? THEN they might have not made him a regular and gone to a backup plan like finding a way to make Neal more forgivable (and it was NEVER just the jail thing) but he didn’t come looking for her when he could have. SO SO different from every other TL couple we have that would go to the ends of the earth (or time) to get to the one they love no matter HOW long it takes them or WHAT they have to give up. “What’s 28 years when you have eternal love?” anyone?
It doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy and I was rooting for him to find happiness elsewhere, but that level of trust was absolutely shattered. On top of that, he repeatedly chose Tamara over her which clearly did affect her because she was hurt that he found Tallahassee with someone else. And on principle, MOST people would be hurt. I COMPLETELY understand this as I can think of a personal example that hurts me on the principle of the matter and I’d be upset & confrontational if given the opportunity but would never want that person in my life. It doesn’t mean she’s IN LOVE just because she’s upset.
(So tired of seeing people saying she was jealous of Tamara but not of Tink. It’s PERFECTLY LOGICAL that she was upset with the idea of Tamara, especially after finding out that he could have come back for her and didn’t. It SUCKS that a lot of their convos have been offscreen but I know JMO has mentioned it as something she knows and that there was definitely more than one betrayal so people need to just STOP calling JMO a liar. Just because you don’t consider something a betrayal doesn’t mean that the person EMMA is would see it that way).
I liked the idea pre-S2. After 2×01 I kept expecting him to show up in SB to fight to get her back, I really did. I was expecting a man to enter town and go to the diner & order pumpkin pie while Emma was in the EF. It could have happened – it didn’t. He CHOSE not to go after her. He CHOSE to pursue a relationship with Tamara instead of going to find her when she was close to breaking the curse and he knew that!
Repeat after me: IT IS NOT CHARACTER ASSASSINATION to learn new information about the past that change things we thought we knew. Just because we come up with what we THINK might have happened in the past doesn’t make us all-knowing. THE STORY IS NOT, NOR HAS EVER BEEN, LINEAR. Are some things added here & there that weren’t fully fleshed out before? Sure. But some things have been pretty consistent and again, Neal choosing not to come find her happened before we saw Hook enter the picture AT ALL.
We learn new things EVERY EP about things the characters did in the past. THESE CHARACTERS ARE NOT SAINTS. They’ve all done some pretty questionable things in the past, Emma included. NOBODY should be on a pedestal! Yet that’s one of the constant complaints I keep seeing that NealFire’s character was destroyed for CS. No, it was there all along. These things HAPPENED. We saw he was supposed to get the postcard, he got the postcard, he DID NOT SHOW UP and guess what – those things happened BEFORE Tallahassee and BEFORE they knew that Hook would work the way they wanted him to and made him 100% the route they were going for the love interest. If he hadn’t worked out for them and they had to change course because of that, the SF reunion would have been different in Manhattan yes, but it WOULD NOT ERASE the fact that he CHOSE NOT TO COME AFTER HER.
I don’t hate the guy, I really don’t. I just get where SHE is coming from with it being too much to repair it and have it be what SHE needs (and it is JMO’s JOB to know what Emma is feeling in order to play it. She has to know if she’s just upset or if she wants him back & she’s been consistent about that in and around placating fans saying tune in and see, she’s been very very Hook is doing these positive things…and Neal is Henry’s dad. That hasn’t changed one iota except now she gets to be more blatant about it, like she was RIGHT AFTER MANHATTAN). It hurts to watch anybody be hurt and he clearly was, but her actions have always been consistent with not wanting to hurt anyone, and feeling bittersweet about the whole thing with him because of circumstances basically out of their hands, but not wanting to go back. It’s not like we ever even saw her apologize for not showing up & she certainly didn’t bother when saying an awkward goodbye to him in 3×11, while Hook got the romantic goodbye that was far more hopeful.
Believe me they could have gone that route, and had her finally forgive & forget (though I feel it would have been way OOC but that’s beside the point because they COULD have turned it around and missed a lot of very obvious opportunities that would make me think they going to) and it would have made the stakes even HIGHER and the emotional impact THAT MUCH MORE on his sudden death. But they didn’t. She has CONSISTENTLY been able to move forward and start to let someone in when he’s not around making her feel bad for wanting that. She doesn’t want to hurt him. She knows now that he did love her which is what she thought which is why she was so confused for so long and afraid to trust anyone, which is basically what Tallahassee was ALL ABOUT.
We’ve seen how the others have dealt with losing their loves and how it destroys them, but she’s more in control now than ever. She’s upset and it hurts to have lost him, but she lost him a LONG TIME AGO. She’s dealt with the decade of misery. She’s free of that now. She has answers, she has closure, and she was ALREADY MOVING TOWARD KILLIAN and that finally culminated at the end of 3B but she has been moving toward that for a long time. It’s not “too soon” – Emma has been MISERABLE for basically her entire life minus a couple of months with a fellow thief over a decade ago. Seriously. I see so many people right now who want her miserable and unhappy and alone and it makes me really really sad. They want the old Emma back? The one who wasn’t happy? Just because HER happiness isn’t what THEY would have chosen? I love early Emma too! S1 Emma was especially awesome but I’m thrilled that she finally is accepting that she has people who love her and are in her corner, and she can more openly express that she does want romantic love in her life, that she wants more than just her & Henry and she’s letting herself FINALLY trust Hook which is what she ALWAYS WANTED TO DO way back on that beanstalk before any of us had a chance to fall in love with him. THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT of her being upset when she cuffed him and left him behind.
Her line at the end of Tallahassee was everything. Because that episode worked, they knew CS would work and got their wish to go with that. I’m sorry if her comments have consistently been “Hook is being supportive and helpful and he’s really surprising her oh and Neal is Henry’s dad” but she HAS BEEN CONSISTENT. She couldn’t outright tell us everything going on and she definitely became way more diplomatic after the fiasco that was the Manhattan fallout with everyone dividing and choosing sides and turning this fandom into a ridiculous train wreck that lends itself to attacking actors for DOING THEIR JOBS but this is absurd.
She’s being HONEST and giving a straight answer that she has been CONSISTENT with. Seriously, go back and look at the Manhattan interviews. Go back and look at PaleyFest where it was *play coy and cute and smile and blush about CS while wondering when Charming is going to punch Neal in the face*
Actors have to know their characters mindsets. It’s why JMO got to know who Henry’s father was first because it was something her character would know. It’s why I’m sure 90% of Colin’s script directions are “gaze longingly/lovingly at Emma.” It’s why MRJ said that Emma was the love of Neal’s life and that’s how he feels. THEY HAVE TO KNOW THEIR OWN CHARACTERS AND WHAT THOUGHTS ARE IN THEIR HEADS SO THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE PARTS. (Funny how MRJ’s is taken as the gospel truth but anything anyone else says must be a lie. His was as accurate as everyone else’s. Emma was basically the love of Neal’s – and pretty much Graham’s too – but that doesn’t mean that’s who SHE ends up with. How many times have we heard couples referred to – never proven but referred to – as the true love of someone and then they died. We’ d have like…no ships if they all just wither into depths of despair. We wouldn’t have CS, or OQ and that would just be depressing, that’s for sure. I love that this show sends the message that just because you love deeply and truly have that connection early on in life, that you don’t *necessarily* have to be alone and miserable forever. The idea that while that loss is unimaginable, and some will choose to never move forward, it’s not the end of the world if you choose to move on and find someone else, especially someone who understands that pain as well. They’ll always be a part of them. It doesn’t diminish Regina’s love for Daniel or Hook’s love for Milah or Emma’s love of Neal from before just because they’re gone. But it doesn’t mean they have to be miserable either. (And I will never get over the hypocrisy of wanting Regina to have love but Emma better stay single. Really? Hasn’t she suffered enough without having done a fraction of the bad things Regina has? – And again I am really rooting for Regina and OQ, I love them I do!)
So to see the Manhattan interviews where JMO is blatantly saying that Emma wants him in Henry’s life but doesn’t want to go back to him, I don’t see how any of this is actually a surprise at this point? EVERYTHING they have told us all along has supported that THIS was the story they wanted to tell. CaptainSwan is THEIR love story. It parallels the things from some of their favorite stories. Hook “Han Solo’d back” long before they decided to kill Neal in the first place. They wanted Hook from the beginning. It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to say it was fanservice when the fans hadn’t seen the episodes yet! The WRITERS OF THE EPISODE were tweeting encouraging things about shipping Hook & Emma during the airing of Tallahassee. Like, this isn’t new?
I know how painful it is when things don’t go your way. Some shows do change things overtime because their initial ideas didn’t work out the way they hoped it would or something organically changed along the way and made sense from a storytelling perspective. It HURTS when you think it’s so perfect and you don’t understand why they don’t go there! But in this particular case that stuff has been there ALL ALONG.
I’m seriously just so sick of this. It’s an insult to the actors that they’re not allowed to be honest & clarify things. It’s not their fault if people misinterpret having some feelings about something to be “they’re desperately in love with them and have to get back together” when all the other clues have been pointing elsewhere. It’s been in the parallels and the dialogue and everything along the way. It has, I promise. We haven’t been making things up out of thin air this whole time.
It just really bugs me that people argue that Bae was in the show all along so clearly it’s all about him. He was a key player and will always be a part of all the others but it’s not the Emma & Neal show. It was never the Emma & Neal show. He was a vital piece of the puzzle for Henry to exist and bring her to town. But appearing in S1 does not make him the end all be all, especially when wayyy back in S1 they were constantly talking about wanting Hook to be there the ENTIRE TIME. Like, if he had been around would people have accepted it more? I don’t know how much more obvious it can get that they really wanted that always, especially when people don’t bother listening to what they say or believing them.
It’s frustrating for me as a writer as well. I’ll have to steer clear of the internet once I publish I guess because I can’t even begin to fathom the hate. Criticism is fine but telling people the things I’ve seen Adam get sent over a story is absurd. Fans can take whatever they want out of something and make it theirs and say it meant this that or the other but if the person behind it spells something out, I don’t see how you can just dismiss it. Maybe that’s just a skill I haven’t picked up on. I tend to follow canon pretty closely on things and sometimes I don’t love it so much but accept it and move on.
No wonder so many actors end up leaving twitter. JMO is such a positive person who tries to ignore the hate in the world and she gets bashed for being honest about how her character feels? She’s been honest the entire time & people just refuse to believe her! They refuse to believe A&E about anything and on some level I get that but it’s the actors JOBS to know what their character is going through. Such a slap in the face to say that they didn’t do their job right, especially when Emma OBVIOUSLY has to have SOME emotion in regards to Neal. I feel like her actions all along were pretty telling that she didn’t want to go back and it was holding her back, and alllll of S3 was about her wanting to MOVE ON and not show up for the date that she seemed uncomfortable hearing about in the first place etc, but clearly all of her interviews along the way that again, were CONSISTENT, must have been wrong, right?
It’s like the fiasco with the pre-S3 special that aired. Oh A&E didn’t REALLY mean that Neal moved on and loved someone else. Nope, things changed since then! They’re lying, they didn’t REALLY mean that! True Love starts with clocking someone over the face? You mean a blatant Snow/Emma parallel? Nope, that’s garbage, they don’t know what they’re talking about! *headdesk*
I’m beyond frustrated at this point. I’ve managed to avoid a lot of the fandom for awhile and felt much better about it but it seems to just be spiralling out of control at this point. The CONSTANT complaining will never go away and sadly just ruins the enjoyment of others. There are ships I will never get over losing so I get it, but there are some extreme fans that I don’t know why they’re still watching or writing hate-filled letters at this point because if you look back at everything, it’s been there. There was always a mild chance maybe that they changed their minds and made everything OOC and turned it on its head but that’s not what happened. Seriously, if Emma ran off with Gepetto out of the blue, THEN I’d say something was massively wrong & OOC etc, but everything has made PERFECT SENSE as far as her reactions and handling of her love life.
They have ALWAYS SAID that Emma needs someone who is persistent. He doesn’t push. He lets her know he has feelings for her (which frankly she needs to hear) but she’s like her mother – actions speak louder than words. He (& Charming) can make all the grand love declarations they want but it’s their actions that convince their ladies of their feelings.
It’s why it bugs me so much that people dismiss Hook giving up his ship. It was literally everything he had and it was nothing for him to give it up to get back to her. He was never even going to TELL her about it but she wanted to know how he got to her and was in AWE that he did that. It was the final piece of the puzzle showing her irrefutably that he was IN this and everything he’s ever said was true. Yes things were proven to an extent with the echo caves, and he’s been there for her many times since then, but she was still putting her walls up and pushing him away. She wasn’t REJECTING him, she had WALLS and as someone with trust issues galore, that makes TOTAL SENSE.
There is a HUGE difference between saying never going to happen, and testing limits. People will walls need to be PROVEN to that they’re not going to be abandoned again. Emma, especially in 3B after the Walsh fiasco which was the first real relationship she had after the Neal drama from the past, had major abandonment issues and was pushing everyone away. She didn’t want to be near her family and friends in SB because it was easier to run back to NY to that perfect little life where bad things didn’t happen. She pushed EVERYONE away but it doesn’t mean she doesn’t CARE about them. That scene with Killian was so touching because he was mentioning her family and everyone else but the obvious subtext was his hoping that she included him in that group of people she cares about and her response was obvious that she cares about him too, but was still wanting to run because if she runs first, it’s on her.
It’s so much easier to blame yourself than open yourself up to someone else hurting you, especially after so much hurt & abandonment. She has been through SO MUCH it makes total sense. I know people seem to think he’s just a puppy dog but they’re actually a really good team and he isn’t afraid to call her out on it when she’s just pushing away for pushing’s sake. He’s not FORCING her to do anything. But being there for her and being supportive of her and yes, even calling her out when she’s being stupid and just pushing everyone away, that’s GOOD for her. She NEEDS that. At the first sign of trouble, in this case the Zelena lips curse thing, she took advantage of it and tried to shut him out. You know what happened after that?
She saved his life. Let me repeat: she let (and helped in a tragic way) Neal die so that they could find out who the witch was so they could defeat her & save everyone. What they found out was that light magic was the way to defeat her so Emma was key (or so they thought but Emma DEFINITELY thought this at this point in time), that in order to save her actual EXISTENCE as well as everyone else she cares about, she needed to keep her magic. She pushed Hook away after learning that if she had kissed him she would have LOST her magic that she has to have and used it as an excuse to be able to walk away from him easier. And then what happened? Oh yeah, she sacrificed ALL OF THAT to save his life.
If that doesn’t say everything RIGHT THERE I don’t know what does. Truly. She let Neal die for the greater good but KNOWING she needed her magic and KNOWING she would lose it, she didn’t let Killian die. Instead she BLATANTLY paralleled to MM begging David “Come back to me” because she COULD NOT LOSE HIM.
I’m just so far beyond fed up with this fandom. I’m sorry canon isn’t what you thought it would be but attacking the writers and actors and other fans like it’s our fault is just absurd. If you look hard enough at anything you can find something to hate and I feel like even non-shipper parts of the show have now been put under a microscope to the degree that NOTHING is allowed to be enjoyed or talked about now. It’s so frustrating for a show and love and hope to see this negativity. I don’t know how JMO puts up with so much of it being such a positive person but I’m 100% sure she’s getting a TON of hate right now for being completely honest and saying the same things she’s always said. It’s just really painful to see.
Looking forward to more interviews where they can actually ENJOY the couple they wanted from the beginning, and that the actors can stop having to be diplomatic about everything but they shouldn’t have to walk on eggshells. There is NO reason for anybody to have to apologize for not wanting to be with someone. NONE. Emma has PLENTY of legit, plausible reasons for not wanting to go back to him. I’m sorry people didn’t pick up on all of those along the way or buy into them, but the acting was there the whole time. It was just read in multiple ways and that’s on us as fans, not the actors when clearly they have to deal with multiple emotions in a situation like that.
I will say this though – I am sick and tired of this fandom putting Emma on a pedestal. She was a thief as a teen, got pregnant, ended up in jail, had a lot of one-night-stands in the last decade, and was a bounty hunter. We were INTRODUCED to her as someone who slammed a guy’s head into a steering wheel. She’s always threatening to punch people. We saw her shove Graham away after he kissed her EVEN THOUGH SHE LIKED HIM because what he did was out of line. Yet people complain about HER kissing Hook? He always lets her come to him, he doesn’t force ANYTHING.
Repeat after me: he is a pirate …..WITH A CODE. He’s super charming on top of that (to some of us at least) and probably doesn’t have to work too hard to get his one-night-stands. That’s clearly how he was dealing with his life post-Milah and during his revenge. Nobody MATTERED to him and he was focused on avenging her death, but that’s EXACTLY how Emma went about life as well. She is not a saint! We love her, but she’s not.
So let’s recap this fandom:
- Regina raped Graham for 28 years – she MUST have her TL & how dare anyone get in the way of it (I love Regina now and OQ is right up there under CS for me but go with it)
- Neal is a few years older than Emma who was a TEENAGER when he got her pregnant and left her in jail (this is statutory rape)
- Hook is a pirate – who talks women into his bed / his crew buys them for him but he’s a pirate so clearly he must be raping people?
Seriously I don’t get this logic. How is it SO FORGIVABLE for anyone not named Hook? They’re all well-loved by someone and we’ve learned to get past this that and the other or nobody on this show deserves a love life at all and they should all be locked up and we’d have no show. But from everything that has actually been SHOWN , we have absolutely ZERO REASON to believe that he has ever had to force himself on anyone, nor would he.
He always lets Emma come to him. If she wants to get away from him, she can. We’ve seen her shove people and make it clear she wants them gone IN THAT MOMENT even if she DOES have some feelings for them. We’ve seen her walk away from Hook before. Even after her hurtful comments to him, he STILL showed up to help her family try and protect “the little royal” and be of use, even as essentially bait. Trust me, if Emma REALLY wanted him gone, she could have shut it all down. All of it.
She was huffy and hurt and putting up walls and pushing him away. SHE’S ALLOWED TO BE UPSET SOMETIMES. But he reads her like an OPEN BOOK and he knows what she’s doing and he calls her out on it. AND SHE SAVED HIS LIFE AND BEGGED HIM TO COME BACK TO HER. TO HER. Yeah she realllllly really wanted him gone so much that she couldn’t let him die for the greater good. Makes perfect sense.
Look if he were HALF the things this fandom has called him especially lately, there’s no way I’d like him AT ALL. I don’t care how good he looks in leather if he’s a horrible person who is doing all the things this fandom says he does. He treats EVERYONE EQUALLY. He doesn’t care who gets in his way, male or female. So he clearly must hate women. Um, okay…no. He respects them. He made Milah basically his second in command and deferred to her. That’s like…a huge no-no on ships. Women are considered bad luck.
He defers to Emma and compliments her plans ALL THE TIME. He has been shown a gazillion times to be supportive and believe in her completely and encourage her to be the BEST VERSION OF HERSELF and this is somehow a crime?
I’m so sick of seeing the hateful trends about OnceUponAHook. Seriously? It’s an ensemble show. There are multiple characters. One could argue that Emma is one of the most central characters of this ensemble which yes, means that her love interest is an INTEGRAL PART OF THINGS, especially on a show about finding TL, but that doesn’t mean that he’s the main character now at all!
It’s like I’ve always said this isn’t Once Upon a Snow White too. Yes she’s super important but it’s not all about her. It’s not all about any 1 character or ship. There are a LOT of stories going on. One could argue it’s mostly about 1 ginormous dysfunctional family but that’s about it.
Has he gotten multiple centrics yes, but that’s because it was important to what was going on at the time. How many Snowing ones have we had? So going back to Emma’s love interest being a big thing, it makes sense we’ve seen more of him. But the show isn’t all about him, and just because he often appears WITH THE GROUP like he should, he doesn’t always even get to speak! He’s seen with them because that’s where he BELONGS.
There are lots of characters I want to see more of. I’m a fan of them too! Just because I defend CS so much doesn’t mean I don’t love Snowing or RumBelle or OutlawQueen! I want more of Robin’s story! I want more Belle! But sometimes quality > quantity. It’s like saying that Hook stood in the background but was seen so clearly he’s more important, while Belle shows up and makes massive discoveries that unlock huge things that move the plot forward. THEY’RE SUPER IMPORTANT. ALL OF THEM. EVERY LAST PIECE OF THE PUZZLE.
It just really frustrates me as a writer and I know Adam has had some great comebacks to things with regards to how much screen time characters get especially. Some of the most remembered / important / well-loved characters really aren’t in their stories all that much.
Heck, Sleeping Beauty had 18 lines in HER OWN MOVIE. It may have been called Sleeping Beauty but I swear it was mostly about the fairies. Adam used the Star Wars reference saying that Darth Vader only had 11 minutes (?) of screentime but goodness knows he’s a big deal. Going along that same line, in Frozen everyone loves Olaf and quotes him tons and adores him (and seriously how can you not???) and he appears all of 11 minutes I think too.
Guess I had a lot more to say than I thought but that’s what I get for not stopping in more often. I’ve been doing other things to avoid the ridiculousness of OUAT (the OUAT hiatus blues are the worst!) and have been happier for it mostly. Binging other things to keep my mind off it but certain things really hit my buttons and seeing her get so much hate for it when it’s really nothing new set me off so thought I’d add my (rather long – sorry) 2 cents.
*cookies for everyone* I love all of you I really do (even those lurking who hate this ship and I know they exist though I can’t fathom leaving my safety bubble at this point so more power to you if you manage it), but this fandom simultaneously makes me want to hug it for the wonderful people and throw something at it for the ridiculous levels it has gotten to. Comparing Hook to every horrible person ever and calling him things he actually in canon is not is not helpful to ANY of those causes and only causes more problems. There are no damsels in distress on this show & she is not a porcelain doll. She has to do what is right FOR HER and yes, sometimes good people get hurt in the process but if someone isn’t right for them, then it’s not right.
Be upset! Be bitter! Be angry! But don’t call things things that they aren’t! If he were half the things I’ve heard him called he would NOT be loved like he is. The only one who has actually done things to the extent and above & beyond what he actually has done is Regina but there’s a double standard since she’s a woman so it’s “female empowerment” somehow, while Hook letting Emma come to him and letting HER initiate kisses etc is somehow him forcing himself on her. I will never understand. (And it’s not mind games and it is SUCH a slap in the face to her character and the writers and the actors who completely understand what this relationship is and that people are reading into it what they want to. Not to mention a HUGE slap in the face to other fans who find something good in it and don’t see it that way AT ALL and have been backed up with them saying we’re seeing it the way they wanted us to. That will never be true for everyone and it hurts to be wrong & “lose” and we have all been there but I have never seen anything this vicious and absurd to the point of hating on the actors for being honest & calling them and the writers horrible things because of it. You don’t have to like something to be respectful of the people doing their jobs and respect that they have feelings too & that the story just didn’t go your way. The hate in this fandom is getting to obscene levels and rising. It’ll be a miracle if the actors don’t all just disappear from twitter and stop doing interviews. Let them do their jobs and stop hating them for it!
I’ll take honesty & answers & spelling things out and seeing it all make sense with everything along the way than burying my head in the sand every day and complaining to people and calling them horrible things because they didn’t do what *I* wanted them to. Can’t please everyone. It’s impossible. But the fact that being honest and outright saying this won’t happen or that was never going to happen and what have you is now apparently a crime deserving of hate & vitriol? This is just sickening.
It’s so weird too because JMO tends to get a lot of the hate for this that and the other not happening. I don’t see Lana getting hate (too much) for being honest that OQ is happening and that SQ won’t be happening, but JMO gets BLASTED for saying that Emma doesn’t have a lion tattoo – and now this? I know people are hurting but wow, just…wow. She’s been consistent and forthcoming with where Emma’s head is in all of this and the complex emotions she’s been dealing with but heaven forbid she be nice about Killian (her actual present day canon love interest) or be honest about Neal or Regina for that matter. Why does the most positive person get dumped on so much? I WISH I could be as positive as she is and block out all the bad stuff and focus on positive energy. It makes it all the more tragic that she gets dumped on for everything. Actors are people too and they have feelings! Ugh, this fandom – I love you & loathe you all at once. I just want to ENJOY the show in peace! Not be told how everything is so awful. Makes me wish I could have watched something like this long before the internet had its say. *shakes head*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantLove that gifset! Saw it on tumblr and absolutely adored it.
Shots near the end of season finales:
- Season 1 – Snowing & RumBelle
- Season 2 – Snowing, RumBelle & CaptainSwan
- Season 3 – Snowing, RumBelle, CaptainSwan, and OutlawQueen
Are you sensing a pattern yet??? 🙂
SO MANY AWESOME CS THINGS TONIGHT that I was not even remotely expecting. So many thoughts but I’ll likely need some more time to wrap my head around stuff. So just a few random things.
- She called him Hook on the bench when she was planning to leave for NY but called him Killian outside Granny’s
- The dancing was EVERYTHING (and poor Charming didn’t realize he actually was at Emma’s first ball!)
- “My Princess”
- CaptainCharming
- Killian being comforting and holding her close when she fell apart
- Killian being jealous of Hook
- Lots and lots of kissing
Basically everything CS was swoon-worthy. And that’s all without an as you wish, ILY, or TLK! So happy that this adventure finally put Emma’s mind at ease and let her realize how much she cared about everyone in SB and that it really was HOME for her! (Bonus points for finally realizing and accepting how deep Killian’s love is for her and that he would literally go back in time, follow her to any realm, be supportive/protective/comforting of her, and give up the one thing most precious to him in the world to get back to her and FINALLY letting him in!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantYep! Forgot to mention that but they did basically say that about him on the audio commentary. They were SO thankful he worked out.
But I am definitely convinced that anything from S1 wouldn’t have conflicted with whichever way they went with things. They made a plausible backup option in a season when they didn’t know if they’d get him by the end or not. But the show was never always about SF. They’re pieces of the puzzle and an important section of it. But nothing has gone against that.
Less than 5 minutes!!!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI love you guys.
It’s Once day, it should be a good day with a finale and all, and we have a lot to look forward to. Hope that everyone enjoys it no matter where they watch or chat or avoid or whatever. (I have no idea what I’m doing yet – principal side of me says “say what you want to say” and the trying not to start a fight says “keep dreaming”). So one last thought before the wonderful finale starts and we’ll be too busy fangirling!
WE know and appreciate the bread crumbs that have been there all along and that all the interviews and things that have been said fall into place and make perfectly logical sense. They wanted him in S1, the pre-S1 sketches of Emma included her pirate jacket, they fought to get the rights to Hook who was the ONE character they wanted in S1 but didn’t get.
The way the season was set up, there were lots of compelling ideas of stories that people latched onto for various reasons, all of which could have been the ultimate way to go.
- SF – reason for and breaker of the curse
- SQ – caster of and breaker of the curse
- WS – two lost FTL children who grew up in the real world (similar to SF in that regard)
- Gremma – Emma getting a fresh start with a good guy who hasn’t done anything to hurt her & gives her a flicker of hope that things won’t always be that way (JMO has actually said Emma had a flicker of hope with Graham and then was starting to with Hook…just saying)
All of these things were set up in S1 when they didn’t have the rights to the character they always intended to have. Romance has never been Emma’s total focus, so it was ok that while ideas for ships involving her were all over the place, nothing was set in stone at this time.
Then comes S2 – they finally have the rights to Hook. They “always” intended him to love Emma and tested him out in his first 3 episodes and specifically wrote into Tallahassee all the ways they’re similar and “kindred spirits” and loved it so much and it worked out how they wanted to so they upped him to a regular before we even saw his first episode aired (there goes fanservice).
Then we have a large gap between Tallahassee and Manhattan. By then they knew that they could continue on with what they always planned to do which is CS. By the time Manhattan rolled around, they were blatantly paralleling Neal/Emma to Milah/Rumple (almost verbatim) and making a point that maybe they were meant to have been together for something (namely Henry) and that was it. That was in there from their very first reunion (along with JMO’s interview right after that episode aired that made it clear that Emma wanted him in Henry’s life but that she wasn’t going back to him. Pretty sure JMO has to know that kind of stuff to play it accurately, just like I’m sure Colin’s scripts almost always have something about staring longingly at Emma. They have to know what their character is up to and already knows, much like JMO knowing who Henry’s father was in S1 even though others didn’t.)
They’ve set up the foreshadowy bread crumbs from the start of S2 when they first tested out and then went full speed ahead with Hook and Emma. He may not have been around in season 1, but he was ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO BE. They have maintained all along that they wanted him there from the start, and that they had a specific purpose in mind for him and that that hadn’t played out yet.
Past/Present, Fire/Water, it’s all been there for ages. Even though we didn’t see Hook in S1 which was not their fault, we’ve seen Emma surrounded by water motifs, and even in Tallahassee, the episode they set they specifically put in the kindred spirit stuff and really kicked this whole thing off that made them realize they COULD continue with their original plans, Emma’s request was that they go somewhere near water (2 hrs away isn’t what she had in mind I’m sure).
As for the “villain” stuff, I love that in 3×01 Emma didn’t group him into either villain or hero categories. He was off to the side, his skills as a pirate were valued, and that was that. He’s never really been a “villain” unless he was just a very bad one. He’s always been presented as more of an anti-hero/byronic hero. He’s the only villain I can think of that we actually saw a big chunk of that transformation in his debut. Yes he was already a pirate at the time, but he didn’t become the revenge-hungry Captain Hook until the episode was over, after we watched Rumple kill the woman he loved who died in his arms. We saw what changed him, whereas people like Regina and Rumple who have at one point in time or another been outright villains, were introduced as such and then their backstories that seek to explain this are sometimes hit and miss until more has been explored.
I don’t know why I bother trying to explain this anymore, since apparently people who disagree are all-knowing and were inside their heads from the start, but I never once thought we were watching the Emma/Neal show from the start. Emma’s a main character but it’s always been an ensemble and covering a lot of stories. Again, like that list above, there were a lot of compelling ideas of ways they could go from back in S1 as far as the ships go, and they all make for great story ideas, but the one they always WANTED to go with is only up to them to say. NOBODY can definitively say that it was always about ___ and that’s what a lot have been throwing at us lately, as though it’s our fault that things were changed.
What the writers have said recently just confirms everything we’ve said all along. We didn’t make this up out of thin air. Tallahassee aired far enough ahead of Manhattan for them to say “ok, we’re going with Plan A then because it works and we wanted it all along” and they set things up accordingly from thereon out. That’s why a lot of CSers have always said when he came back into the picture that that’s where we have a lot of our problems stemming from. WL proved that even with horrible pasts, someone can be redeemed enough to be forgiven and loved by the one they hurt badly (and that was within a few episodes!) but on the main show, they redeemed and forgave him, but never put Emma into a position where she was going to take him back (I think the last gifset I posted shows a lot of that particular sentiment based on what she was and wasn’t willing to sacrifice and we’ve discussed her post-Neal “death”/death life ad naseum, I’ll be so glad when we can stop mentioning him again because he served as her past and shaped a lot of her issues but Killian is close to breaking through those walls, thank goodness).
I’m just completely baffled that when BOTH sides say they have a long list of evidence as to how it was always going to be ____ as a couple, and then the show goes one way and the writers say they always intended for that couple to be it, that the fans somehow know “better” than the writers, that it was always going to be something else and attack us for it not happening that way. (And don’t get me started on writer hate, nothing makes me more furious than seeing them be told that their characters are messed up or they screwed up the story. That’s not to say I always agree with them, but it’s their story to tell. Goodness knows we all have stories we want to scream at writers about because we think they’re blind and made a bad choice, but in this particular case, the bread crumbs were there the whole time and knowing now officially that they were essentially “testing out” Hook in those early episodes and after 2×06 was shot and locked they upped him to a regular, it actually makes things make a LOT more sense.)
Think of it this way – what if they wanted Hook and Colin had somehow been…lackluster? (Ok let’s say that actually they just cast someone else by mistake cause Colin is perfect as Hook and of course didn’t mess it up! After all he was told going in that there was a bit of PB in him and he even did the voice in 2×04 – it was always part of his character to be compared to Westley/DPR!) So let’s say that whoever was in his place failed MISERABLY and they were dreadful together but he was already introduced as Captain Hook so that was just over and done with, shall we? (Yes it’s depressing but let’s go with it a second)
- They spent a season building up how much hatred Emma has regarding Neal and their past
- Hook was supposed to come in and be her love interest but have to test things first
- Parallel her past to her present to make sense of why she’s reacting the way she is (ie: too afraid to trust him because she’s been burned before)
- THEN IT ALL FAILS
So what happens?
- They would have set up a somewhat sweet/bittersweet tale of SF from the past which makes Neal a *viable* option that they could fall back on (that kind of story CAN be sweet, we saw it work beautifully on WL and there are always couples that we root for that have that kind of history)
- Hook would have still been out to get Rumple who obviously wasn’t going anywhere
- Hook would have been gotten rid of a la Cora at some point in S2 and therefore would never have been a regular etc
- And they had the perfect fall back plan with 7 episodes between Tallahassee and Manhattan to rework the SF reunion and everything after that
It could have gone that way if Colin hadn’t worked out. It could have, and it would have been realistic and not gone against what they set up even with Emma having a lot of bitter feelings for a long time because she didn’t know what happened and it COULD have been approached in a different way.
But that’s not what happened because what they always wanted to happen was able to happen and still worked perfectly with everything they set up. A LOT of us CSers have had issues more with what happened in NY onwards, and not just the jail thing. We get the jail thing and Emma has forgiven that and understands now at least and has closure on that no matter how painful it was, so that’s a non-thing. But all of those massive problems with the way he was written in Manhattan onward WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED if they went that route, but they knew after Tallahassee that their Plan A was a go and went forward accordingly.
It was a nice idea that COULD have been great if written in a way that was meant to make us feel that way. I LIKED THE IDEA BEFORE S2. (Yes I just said that.) It was an interesting idea, I could see the appeal. And this is why I try to let things play out before I get excited about things….
As for the anti-Hook stuff in general (other than him being in the way of another ship and the enemy of a beloved character) comes from certain triggers and if half of them were actually true about the character I wouldn’t like or approve of him either! He gets a bad reputation because he’s a pirate who talks big but he didn’t “take” Milah, she chose to run off with him (she was a lousy wife and mother, but that’s all on her). He was antagonizing Rumple into fighting but again, Hook is the mask he wears.
He has NEVER been shown to be a rapist so I wish people would stop acting like he is one just because he’s a pirate. He charms his way wherever he needs to go, and he is at his core an honorable man who has spent hundreds of years avenging the death of his love. THAT is what his story is. And don’t even get me started on the misogyny reputation! He ADMIRED Milah and let her act like she owned the place and was running point on HIS SHIP. He protected her from Rumple, acting like she was dead and was willing to DIE for it. He let her handle things the way she wanted to on the ship. Women aren’t usually even ON ships because they’re considered bad luck.
From the beginning with Emma, he has openly ADMIRED and been genuinely IMPRESSED BY her and telling her that constantly. When she doubts herself and others are putting her down, he is the one that is building her up and following her lead and going along with her plans. Yeah he must really have a problem with strong women. He treats EVERYONE the same and anybody who gets in his way is fair game, man or woman.
Just so tired of having him ganged up on. Glad I never saw that thread!
In answer to a question, my tumblr can be found here: I tend to reblog a lot of stuff and occasionally meta there. Nice little hideout bubble.
Hope everyone has a WONDERFUL Once night and that we have a lot of stuff to fangirl over very very soon!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantIT’S ONCE DAY! So excited (especially for today’s ep!)
mini-rant (feel free to skip over)
Just got a lot off my chest on tumblr to try and keep things more peaceful here. At least there it’s under a cut and mostly out of the way. Sadly the people that need a reality check in the fandom will never see it no matter where it’s posted but at least it’s off my chest and I don’t even care if anyone reads it – it’s just therapeutic to write sometimes and not immediately hit delete for fear of upsetting someone else. Beyond frustrated being told by other fans what the show was always about as if they know for a fact even though both sides always believed they had come to the right conclusions and things have been consistent and some outright stated. When’s it going to be enough?? I guess it’s easier to have faith and blame everyone else, even other fans, instead of saying maybe they were wrong. I get why the idea of it was appealing in S1 (I liked the idea before S2) but I also see the setup from the start for CS and remember how badly they wanted Hook in S1 (I seriously wonder how things would have been different but I also love what we had!) I mean for crying out loud, Emma was in a piratey outfit in a pre-S1 character sketch! We didn’t make that up (or anything else for that matter). Seriously, JMO’s post-Manhattan interviews say everything and now A&E have outright said that Hook was always brought in for a specific purpose, was always intended to love Emma, and that we didn’t imagine everything we’ve been saying about Tallahassee for FOREVER and said it was all intentional to show how much they’re kindred spirits and start their beautiful journey (which was BEFORE fans could react so clearly not fanservice – sick of that word, especially from people who are simultaneously begging for fanservice!)
I’m so ready for a break from the fandom it’s ridiculous. I’ll stop in sometimes but I could use a mini-vacation for sure so will likely stick to tumblr more for a bit. I can only take so much. *clings to happy bubble*
/end rant
Can’t wait to see what happens tonight even if I’ll likely end up having to retreat very quickly into a bubble to avoid anything bringing me down. I am determined to have a much better day than it has started out as and I need some good days. I expect it to be an emotional roller coaster for sure, especially if it brings back a lot of S1 stuff like this whole season has been so far (and especially after seeing the wringer they put us through for the 3A finale!), but so excited that it’s 2 eps back-to-back! We’ve been asking for that for a finale for ages and keep not getting it so it’s nice to see a story not jam-packed into 1 episode or leave it in a cliffhanger (cause they’ll have some surprise at the end anyway for that purpose).
SO HAPPY that this particular adventure is long and airing together. Hoping we get more like that in the future so that stories can be a bit more fleshed out but still not dragged out over too much time. Also hoping for lots of character moments and emotional attachment to everything going on (some of them have been hit and miss and I’m hoping for a lot of important moments for all the characters in some way).
Can’t wait to see what happens! Is it 8 yet?? (Also yay for no spoilers from Canada. I can only imagine how furious they are and I would be too and goodness knows I’ve lived off of them all season, but I’m also kind of relieved that people won’t know for sure every little detail ahead of time so nobody is going in with an opinion on how things actually played out. I think that has ruined a lot of the 3B experience, especially with what’s been going on. I’d rather have a fresh outlook on things and see comments that aren’t influenced by what happens later on. It just kinda kills the enjoyment of it. (Not that I expect to be safe to see comments for very long anyway but still.)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantFound this on tumblr which perfectly represents one of my earlier points about Emma’s sacrifice to save Killian so wanted to share! Like mother, like daughter indeed! (source is here). Love love love parallels!
1×03 Snow using the fairy dust she was keeping for the queen to save Charming from the trolls
3×20 Emma sacrificing her magic aka her biggest form of defense at the moment to save Killian
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantNice Jenna!
YES – there was so much in 2×06 that they referenced the other day in setting them up as kindred spirits etc. It was ALWAYS there and ALWAYS INTENDED to be there and it worked so they were able to continue on with their plan (thank goodness!)
Love love love how many things were set up in that episode that are now paying off more and more as well. She’s even got Henry apartment hunting for her and finding her a place near the water (does he know his mother or what?) I always loved that her first thought after randomly pointing at the map to find a place to live was “is it near water?” because Emma gravitates to water, she always has (makes sense, Snowing’s castle is surrounded by it) and so much of the imagery of S1 even has to do with ships and water. Emma always tries to live near the water (Tallahassee is NOT near the water. It’s like…2 hrs from the beach).
Matt and I were chatting about this the other day so full credit to him but it’s basically a fire vs water thing. Not trying to be harsh or anti-Neal or anything because he was an important part of the puzzle and helped make her who she is (and we were given a LOT of that in Tallahassee to explain why she can’t let herself trust Hook at the end if it), but throughout her life, even in her fake missing year life, fire has burned her and it’s always been water that has soothed her in some way. It’s what she gravitates back towards and that is what Killian represents for her. His great love of his life outside of people has been the sea. It’s part of him, but it’s part of her too.
That’s why I’ve never understood people say that she hates the water or wouldn’t want to be on the ship etc. etc. SHE LIKES WATER. She was born in a castle surrounded by it. It’s what comforts her which is why she wants to go places that have it. Clearly the one time she lived somewhere that didn’t things did not go well, but even before that happened her inclination was to go somewhere that had it. The people she trusted Henry with most in the missing year had boats. Henry knows to look for a place that overlooks the water to make her happy. She’s always surrounded by pictures of the sea, or ships, or ship helms. It adds up!
Love the details in 2×06 though. All the keychains were turned around except the one Neal picked up for her (the swan) and then right next to it is a little hart with a jolly roger on it. *CS feels*
Then we have the ever so subtle (not remotely subtle) “Everything we need is right in front of us” *Hook walks right in front of Emma* and of course, Emma grabbing him more in an embrace rather than just grabbing his jacket.
And we can’t forget the ever incredible hand wrap scene. SO ROMANTIC. He did not have to do that and definitely not that way but *swoon* – she was genuinely surprised but let him.
He read her on DAY 1 and she understood very quickly that they were kindred spirits, even if she was afraid to trust him (which she spelled out and, hello, with that flashback especially of course she wondered if he’d be like Neal was with what she knew at the time).
They set up so many things in that episode (and Jane & Christine both tweeted to the effect of people should be shipping them or they hoped people were shipping them or aren’t they great together), and we had Hook point out they make quite the team, and we saw just how alike they are at times. SO MANY THINGS.
So glad they’re finally paying that off and letting that fully be explored. We’ve seen a lot of him obviously having feelings for her and her being special and bringing out the best in him (I swear Milah just brought out the worst in both of her known suitors – poor Belle and Emma have to do damage control!), but we haven’t gotten to see as much of the blatant Emma is totally into this guy – at least not to the point that the other side can’t deny it exists and is a real thing.
Still on an emotional high from A&E both instantly saying “Always” when asked if they intended Hook to love Emma. This is what they wanted all along and what we’ve said the clues always led to and it was just so nice to see them actually confirm that (not that ANYBODY but CSers believe them – of course – whatever), but I love that they’re finally getting to talk about that. You could TELL at PaleyFest last year they were so excited about it but couldn’t say anything (though they were quick to jump on Ginny’s comment, that’s for sure!) and Jen has said she knew where the CSF situation was going from the time that MRJ & Colin were cast which explains the extreme lack of poker faces.
Pretty sure half of Colin’s script says something to the effect of *stare longingly at Emma* and so many of those types of things were there from the very beginning. They set her up perfectly to be someone who would genuinely IMPRESS HIM as well as be able to understand him and be a kindred spirit for sure. That awe and respect was there from the start. He even put his plan to the side when her plan sounded better and went along with it. Fearsome pirate captain in charge of everything who hates women – right, cause that happened. (Um, no – he was impressed and appreciative of her intelligence.)
Can’t wait for tomorrow night! I feel like the Killian side of me is just hoping he finally is shown that he’s loved too (I think deep down he knows it, it’s just so hard for him to keep being kicked around even though he totally understands she has walls and is protecting her heart and he gets that), and the Emma side of me is just really wanting her to finally let her walls down and accept that she is loved and let herself take that kind of risk again. It’ll tie in nicely to the leap of faith from 3×01 as well as allll the talk in 3×12 that shows she wants this in her life, but she keeps picking the wrong guys who break her heart in one way or another. Killian is there to show her she CAN have it all and that she IS loved and that there is someone out there who will fight for her like her parents fight for each other. That they can be “quite the team” and actually be a TEAM.
I think that’s why she was frustrated more than anything with him keeping secrets (and even pointed out it was EXACTLY like Charming not telling Snow about the poison). Like mother, like daughter. They don’t WANT someone making decisions for them and most of Emma’s life has been decided by other people. It needs to be her choice so of course she was upset. This is the one person who has always treated her like an equal and a partner and hasn’t been making decisions for her without her input, and then he went and did what the others did (in her eyes) and that’s not what she wants – she doesn’t want to fall back down that particular rabbit hole, so to speak.
But that anger drifted away when she gave up everything to save him and they’re back on good terms now even though she’s still planning on leaving which is painful to watch for his sake but I have every faith it will be alright by the end of the finale!
I’m sorry but you can’t tell me she doesn’t care about him. She was willing to let Neal die to get information from Rumple on how to defeat Zelena. She asked Rumple to figure out a way to save him but never tried a kiss, or her magic (which is STRONGLY tied in with her emotions) etc, she went along with the devastating loss because it was “for the greater good.” Fast forward to knowing how to defeat Zelena, and that it was her magic that was needed to do so (or so they thought at the time) AND KNOWING that any contact of her lips with Killian’s would result in the LOSS OF HER MAGIC, aka the thing that would defeat Zelena, aka basically the thing Neal died for, she still rescued Killian and risked EVERYTHING, including her own existence, so that Killian would exist. She couldn’t lose him and her actions speak louder than any words ever could (even though they also parallel S1 MM perfectly. “Come back to me” *major feels*)
This show has always been an ensemble. Everyone is an important piece to the puzzle, even if only for a fraction of the time. They play their parts and are exactly what the writers needed them to be. We don’t like it because they catered it to us, we like it because we saw something beautiful in it from the start and have followed the bread crumbs which led us to the right destination. Seriously, if Emma started dating Gepetto or something (for example – had to think of someone she isn’t usually shipped with!), then THAT would be out of thin air and I’d totally get crying foul but clearly a huge chunk of the fandom has been following the clues that got us here (including a TON of interviews, parallels, foreshadowy comments/camera angles etc; especially JMO’s Manhattan interviews and the Manhattan parallels in general, along with sooo manyyyy quotes).
Emma’s poster is the last one to complete and with the title of this episode etc, everything is coming together! Friendly reminder: Emma and Hook talked about HOME in Tallahassee as well. It is NOT nor has it EVER BEEN what only ONE characters wants/needs/deserves. They ALL do. Sorry it’s just a pet peeve. Nobody owns the word “home” and Emma’s definition of “home” has evolved in the last decade and has meant many things including her life with HENRY and she’s also discussed it with Hook in that VERY SAME EPISODE that everyone keeps quoting but forgetting she said it in present day WITH HOOK. *deep breath*
So glad it’s finally playing out like they always wanted it to. Some things are more set in stone and others evolve as the story goes on but they’ve been pretty upfront about things (they even said they almost killed off Charming in the pilot for crying out loud), but no hesitation that Hook was always meant for Emma. (Add that to allll the other quotes including very early on from JMO in a foreign magazine saying something about a love interest that started as a villain, and then Meghan saying right after 2×06 that more would be happening with Emma & Hook, and The Enemies – Colin’s band – telling the world that they were losing him to the Swan girl I mean really. Colin didn’t uproot his life and give up his band for nothing. He was brought in for a purpose and they said they always had a very specific one in mind for him and that that is playing out – and it is!)
They made him a regular before his episodes even aired because he was everything they wanted for the man they planned on for their main character. The initial SKETCHES of Emma had her wearing a long piratey jacket (see the first Once magazine) etc. etc. These two were always meant to be!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantFound this on tumblr. There’s a CS-friendly chat room open here.
They’re discussing all kinds of random stuff but looks like they’re trying to do a nice big party in prep for the finale! (Pic invite was spoiler blocked because it had a pic from the finale of the dancing which I can’t wait to see! Really hoping Killian has to teach her to dance as that would be fantastic. He’ll at least put her at ease I’m sure.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI will really miss Gabriel & Riley which is mostly what I was watching for (though it wasn’t bad in general anyway) and will really miss seeing Josh Holloway on TV every week. I like the team he made with Meghan and Marg Helgenberger! Boo hiss!
At least that might free Meghan up again. I’d say that might get us some FrankenWolf finally but I think David Anders show got picked up (not that I want to watch anything with zombies in it no matter how much I like Whale and Tink!) but we’ll see.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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