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I was wondering about all of that too jenven, hence my concern about loopholes that will have to be closed once Emma makes a choice so that it’s official and done with (a la them saying that we would learn for sure with the pixie dust who Regina is meant to be with).
I completely agree, I’m not Anti-NealFire, I love Bae, I find moments I genuinely like Neal, I just don’t like their relationship and don’t see it fitting in with what we know of TL on this show at all. I never had a ship for Emma before CS because while I liked Graham, that ended rather…quickly, and sadly. Nobody else captured that for me until Hook showed up. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they do have in store for Neal down the line. So far any on-screen relationship for him I’ve actually enjoyed the idea of based on what we’ve seen (DarlingFire, Bae/Morraine, MuFire, etc), most have tanked/aren’t possible anymore but I actually ENJOYED the interaction and was ready and willing to root for it should it happen. We’ve seen him smile so rarely and I want him to be happy and to be happy watching him in a relationship! It’s why I love the big smiles when he saw Tink again. Those are moments I can enjoy for him and I expect the same down the line.
I may ship CS hardcore, but I love a lot of the relationships on the show. I don’t feel the need to dissect them 24/7 like I do with CS because that’s the one I’m heavily invested in, but I do genuinely love most of the other relationships that are meant to be loved (ie: the true love ones). So I want to actually enjoy Neal’s relationship too down the line and I just can’t imagine what kind of character retcon for Emma they’d have to do to make me believe that this is the best thing for her. (If that’s a modern day fairy tale, with the way they’ve set it up so far? Count me out. It had potential to be cute if he came back the moment he got the postcard and fought for it, but the whole Tamara sitaution, not choosing Emma til she’s the only choice etc etc on top of all the prior pain caused and not liking her using magic which is part of who she is now etc, I just don’t see it. It had appeal, 2 lost fairy tale children meeting in the real world…until it was laid out the way it was and then on top of that finding out that it was basically manipulated by Peter Pan to get their kid. I just…no).
Literally the only time I haven’t enjoyed Neal with relationship stuff is present day SF or Neal/Tamara. So I’m looking forward to seeing him a lot happier down the line and am very curious to see who he ends up with. I just can’t make myself enjoy how he and Emma treat each other present-day relationship-wise, though they do work well as friends and co-parents. Those are the only scenes I’ve really enjoyed. Doesn’t mean I don’t love Neal or Bae, I just like him a lot more when he’s not in a relationship with Emma. (MRJ is a riot on twitter and I’m so happy that in recent photos we’ve seen him in FTL clothes and SMILING! Even in SB stuff he’s smiling and spending time with RumBelle and that’s the stuff I love to see!). I just want everyone to be happy and I see Emma and Neal smile but 99% of the time it’s OTHER PEOPLE who are making them actually smile. To me, true loves should make each other happy and they should be thrilled their love is alive after they thought they lost them. I don’t see how it’s so crazy to think that…
There are just too many things about the heart situation. Can Emma take her own heart? Does Henry count as the product of true love if they “truly love” each other even though “just because you truly love someone doesn’t mean you have to end up together?” etc etc. It also begs the question of whether it was a Heart of the Truest Believer thing, or a True Love thing, etc with regards to Henry’s heart. I really don’t think they answered that in that awfully worded question in Lightning Round 10 where they led with Emma’s heart not being able to be taken. Henry’s heart was takable because he did it himself so their answer is still correct, but I seriously doubt they would actually give it away in an interview like that. This is nowhere close to done.
I was surprised to see Pan try to take it though. I thought he needed Henry to give it willingly because of a special thing about being the heart of the truest believer. It seems odd that he didn’t just take it if that’s what he could do before unless he just got desperate, but he seemed genuinely surprised that he couldn’t get to it because of Regina’s spell. I think her doing that now of all times was odd frankly. Why not do that ages ago? She knows she’s not the only one who takes hearts. Just seemed weird. I know many are calling it convenient so that we can’t see if Pan COULD have taken his heart, but at the same time even if he couldn’t, it might not be what we think since his heart is special for another reason.
Henry also had to get magic from Pan to remove it in the first place. Snow and Charming don’t have magic. Emma does. Emma is special because she’s the product of true love and we see her inherently have magic. Pan completely dismisses anything about her other than the fact that she brought Henry into the world and that makes him special because he’s got both darkness and light in his bloodline. He didn’t seem to care at all about her being the product of true love / magical, and he had to actually give Henry magic in order to be able to remove his heart (similar to Hook having his hook enchanted for a one-time-only heart removal for a non-magical person to use). Pan seems to know just about everything, so the fact that he had to give Henry magic makes me think he’s NOT like Emma as far as the product of true love thing, or if it does count as “true love” since they truly love each other even if it’s not who she’s actually supposed to be with down the line, it did NOT make him magical like it made Emma. He has his own brand of specialty with the heart of the truest believer thing, but that’s not the same thing which makes using Henry’s heart as an indicator of anything extremely dicey at best.
And again, even if he is, it may not mean who Emma ends up with. To me it’s like the TLK thing working for Emma/Henry because they truly love each other. Would a kiss work for her and Neal even if she’s not IN love with him because they do genuinely love each other? Or is it like Charming having to wait for Snow to wake him up even though Henry was right there.
Basically it’s all very confusing. I have a feeling that we will learn it and finalize it in SOME way but we have yet to know what that is. Current working theory for myself is that it will be Emma making a choice and then Tink (after getting her wings back) proving her choice with the pixie dust. I really want to see EMMA make a choice, rather than be told she has to be with ___ even though SHE hasn’t made her mind up yet so I’d much rather watch her make a choice and have someone like Tink step in to help prove it to the naysayers who don’t believe it. This is different from the Regina thing because she actually tried to get Regina to go into that room and see him, and Regina needed to be shown that there was hope of loving again. She hasn’t met him yet which is irksome to many and understandably so, but SHE knows when she’ll see that tattoo and it gave her HOPE which is important.
Emma HAS hope and just needs to make a choice, but I think to satiate both the audience and several characters on the show, SOMETHING will have to happen to prove that it’s real before the nonsense stops – even though people are still tweeting Adam about SQ being a thing even though they’ve already showed us OutlawQueen is supposed to be together. I totally get hanging onto hope for the ships we love but that’s what fandom stuff is for! You don’t have to stop loving something just because it’s not canon. At the end of the day I’d rather have answers instead of false hope, and learn to love whatever they throw at me. I love the SHOW and my ships, I just don’t want to get my hopes up unnecessarily – something I have in common with the people in my favorite ship!
I can’t imagine NOT watching if CS doesn’t end up together, but I’d wonder where the heck that corner turned out of nowhere because that’s not the story they’ve been building the way that many of us see it (and unlike around here, it is a big ship elsewhere. We are not alone!) Emma has to work through a lot of stuff to completely close that door with Neal but I have faith it will happen because these writers have proven themselves time and time again and, while I may not love every little detail, I still love the overall story and they KNOW how things are being taken and that they are presenting it in such a way that leads to that.
They knew at the beginning of the season that CS was already coming across as a very viable option for Emma and now they’ve thrown us a kiss, two “As you wish”es and tons of Snowing/CS parallels. If they wanted to overcome SF being voted as the worst tv couple, or make an ACTUAL triangle they’d have evened the playing field a bit and made sure to very carefully craft the Neal as well as Neal/Emma moments to balance that out and they haven’t. He is continually set up as an obstacle and the moments that we DO love Neal are when he’s involved with the things we’ve been saying all along are the roots of HIS story.
If they did what I thought they would do and have Neal come to SB while Emma was in FTL, it would be entirely different. They’d show him actually trying to come back ASAP and explain everything and fight for her to understand that like Snowing he did what he had to do and he came back the moment he could. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. It’s not even about the jail thing or all those years she felt horrible because of him leaving. It’s that she knew he was never going to come back for her and explain, and that he chose Tamara over her repeatedly, after she just spent months watching David not be able to stay away from MM and watching what true love does vs everything else. She’s surrounded by it now, she’s made out of it for crying out loud.
As I said somewhere in my ramble yesterday, not all CSers hate Neal or don’t want him to be happy! Most of us want him with who he should be with and it’s nothing against him that it doesn’t have to be Emma! Emma is NOT a Gold medal and he’s settling for Silver and Hook gets the Gold. It’s not like that AT ALL. It is literally – everyone should end up with who they’re meant to end up with, and usually that is preceded by tragic circumstances and heartbreak that shapes who you are and eventually you find who you ARE supposed to be with. Emma IS NOT RIGHT for absolutely everyone who ever interacted with her on screen. I realize there are TONS of ships for her, but she is not going to be the absolute perfect person for every single character we see. She just can’t be.
A decade ago they may have been good together for a little bit. Something wonderful came out of that. They’re different people now and it is not a crime if Neal gets hurt NOW if something BETTER is waiting down the line for him. Why would we want ANYONE to be with someone who isn’t their true love and the best for them? If we love the character, we should want the best for them. Case closed. If Hook gets hurt I can’t imagine based on the way they’ve written him that he could move on from this. I just don’t see how he could, when we’ve been shown that Neal can, but as a Hook fan I want him to be with the absolute best person for him which in my opinion IS Emma. The person she is TODAY fits very well with who HE is today. They’re a good match.
There are so many things I love about and see hope in with regards to CaptainSwan, but bringing out the best in each other is a huge part of it, and who they are today is extremely important. Falling in love with a memory means not appreciating who they are right now. Which is why I love the fact that while everyone has flaws and has made bad mistakes at some point, the couples we love the most bring out the best in each other and appreciate who they actually ARE and not just the idea of them on a pedestal somewhere. (It’s why I was so proud of Belle for standing up to Rumple and leaving him for a little bit til he was more open and honest with her. Same thing with Henry, even though he loves Regina, he doesn’t put up with her embracing her evil side). I just can’t imagine Emma being with someone who isn’t ok with who she is now, and wants her to be the way she used to be, especially when the way they used to be meant Neal denying the best part of himself, anything to do with being Baelfire. I want him with someone he can be Bae with and appreciates him for ALL of it. Not someone who was never even let in on that stuff.
That doesn’t mean that Neal will not be right for someone else. It’s not a slight on him that their relationship isn’t perfect. He’ll find someone who IS right for him. I swear sometimes I read these things all over and it’s like, if we were watching Rumple and Milah in chronological order, we’d have the same exact situation we have right now. People would want them together because they have a kid and they should try harder and how dare the pirate get in the way, Rumple and Milah are perfect for each other they have to make it work for Bae etc etc. But we know the end of that story. We know that Milah, and then Cora, break Rumple’s heart but that SOMEDAY down the line, he will meet Belle who is SO MUCH BETTER for him. I cannot stress that enough. SO MUCH BETTER and I can’t think of anyone who actually prefers him with Milah. Literally no one. He belongs with BELLE which makes it more ok that he was tragically hurt in the past because now he has her and it’s going to be ok. Why is it so wrong to believe the same for Neal down the line??
To be fair, Emma is WAY BETTER than Milah and always will be. Hurting someone doesn’t matter how wonderful the person you lost is or not. You’re still hurt and, as fans, we don’t LIKE seeing someone get hurt, whether they deserved it or not. In fact Milah hurting Rumple IS extremely tragic because he did EVERYTHING RIGHT and his world still fell apart. He hadn’t done nearly as much to deserve someone not trusting him or wanting to be with him in the future as his son. He, like he always has, fought to come HOME, to be WITH HIS FAMILY no matter what that took to do it. But that doesn’t mean that he and Milah were a perfect match and should make it work. It meant that it was tragic, absolutely heartbreaking to watch for him, and that something BETTER was waiting for him down the line.
I have no doubt that for Hook we’re either getting Emma or nobody (and nobody would be tragic given his redemption arc and the fact that everything for him is about love and how deeply he loves, just like other reforming villains who have it/will have it soon. I just don’t see how he will ever move past that when he loves so deeply. All the TL couples we’ve seen on the show CAN’T FUNCTION when their true love is out there somewhere and alive (and many can’t function for decades after their death even). Neal knew Emma was out there and they all seem to know the “family means being together” stuff and he decided a long time ago that Emma was better off without him and he could move on. His language has ALWAYS been about the possibility that they won’t end up together, where as Hook’s has always been about how they WILL. There’s no point in building up half the triangle to say “gotcha” and then reverse it. It would be a disservice to ALL of their characters but especially Emma.
We’ve known her the longest. We sat through a whole season of her expressing how painful it is to deal with the idea of Henry’s dad. We saw that again in Manhattan with her phone call to Snow. And again in the echo caves when her secret was that she was terrified he was alive and was hoping he was dead so it would make it EASIER for her to move on (as in, not impossible, just easier). They set so much stuff up before we EVER EVEN SAW HIM so that we would have that in our heads. They set up his entire highlight reel of a relationship in order to understand why Emma was afraid to trust HOOK. He was brought into the show literally as an obstacle for CS and they waited to show him to us until they got the rights to Hook, after hearing how much Emma didn’t want him around and how he wasn’t a good guy.
It really doesn’t matter what we think based on what we know of the circumstances. Emma is the one who has to live with all of that, and the pain that she went through, and then knowing he could have come back and chose not to but instead started a life with someone else (which he STILL has not dealt with even though he was begging her to come back to bed A WEEK AGO). He never CHOSE Emma which is something we have seen in every TL couple in some way shape or form. Choosing love over revenge, choosing in a triangle of some kin, etc etc. These things add up!
So I have faith that they’re going down this path for a reason and I can’t imagine them building it up to this point and not realizing how absolutely lopsided and ridiculous that would be. Unlike in some shows, I don’t see them going down one path and then switching unless it’s a repeat of MM/David/Kathryn where she feels obligated in some way to try something with Neal first. There’s basically NO WAY that she picks Hook and then does a 180 down the line. On a show that’s about hope and TL, we’re not gonna have her flip-flopping all over the place. It wouldn’t make sense for the show or for her. (The only time we’ve seen that in a triangle is when we always KNEW who would end up together and he couldn’t stay away from MM even when he tried. The pull was too strong. We saw the exact opposite for Neal/Tamara).
For Emma, she’s now embracing who she is and that includes all of the bad things that have happened in her life and who that makes her today. It’s like seeing Grumpy as Dreamy – he doesn’t want to get rid of that pain because it makes him who he is and he’s alright with who he is. Emma is embracing who she is completely for the first time and that includes some things that others won’t like (ie: magic). But there’s something from S1 that I love from a conversation with Emma and MM about how she almost ran away from SB with Henry and MM gets mad at her because she thought Emma was better than that and she DIDN’T WANT TO SEE HER REVERT TO WHO SHE WAS BEFORE SHE CAME TO SB. Basically that’s how I’ve felt about the entire idea that she should go back to being that girl who did fit with Neal over a decade ago. She was a DIFFERENT PERSON back then and all of her character growth would be completely null and void if she just up and decides none of it matters after everything she’s been through.
If it goes that way it’s a huge character shift and they’ll have to lead up to it in a way that makes sense, especially after what her secret was since it was proven by the caves. They’ve had plenty of opportunity to do that, and I worried way more at the beginning of the season that they WOULD do that to make it more of an obvious pull between the two guys, but all I see is her past that she lived with for so long, and the hope of a future and she sees that in Hook. It’s harder for her to shut the door when Neal is right there saying he wants another chance, but she has to face it before she can move on, and it would have been too easy for her if she could just sweep it under a rug because he’s gone.
She has to make a CHOICE, even knowing that he’ll get hurt by it. Just like David should have made the actual choice and…as much as it hurt Kathryn when she found out and went after MM, she realized that it wasn’t exactly the best thing for her and that she needed to look elsewhere and live her life. I expect no less from Neal whose language all season has been about Henry and now his Papa, and working on those aspects of his life as much as trying for a second chance with Emma which he even said may not happen. I think as long as she doesn’t give him false hope and he sees that she’s just not dealing with it right now, he won’t be too bad about it when she does make a choice, even if it hurts him, as long as he knows she’s genuinely happy.
*cookies for all*
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Found this on tumblr and wanted to share!
Under spoilers because two of the 3 pics involved come from future eps but loved this!
The outfits that Snow and Emma are wearing in particular are all or almost all red. We’ve seen Emma in various stages of black with a little red before, but this is much closer to a Buttercup/Westley thing and it’s interesting that all 3 of what many of us consider to be the big couples are wearing mostly red in a scene where they’re close to their man who also happens to be in leather! Love how close these match up. The only difference here is, as far as we know/can tell, is that the first two are from Snowing & RumBelle reunions. We don’t know the circumstances yet for the CS hug, but it SEEMS as though Hook was arrested and this happens after so it’s a mini-reunion of sorts depending on the circumstances. Hoping she’s extremely relieved that he’s ok so it matches up even better! I just love that for the reunions, the men are in leather and the women in red. Love especially that Hook’s in black so it matches up for Buttercup & Westley. Yay for Princess Bride references!
Edited – yay finally made it work! Shrunk the image down in spoilers so just click to make it bigger. I miss the preview function so much! Had to edit a gazillion times without knowing if the coding would work and having to jump back to the page (stupid auto-send to page 1 nonsense!) But it’s here now so people can find it more easily!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
So many amazing reunions for this episode! It’s going to be so emotional right off the bat I bet! LOVE how many of the townspeople are out there to welcome them back with open arms!
LOVE LOVE LOVE RumBelle, Snowing (flashbacks yay *swoon* – love their flashbacks especially early stuff and it looks like we’re getting where the pilot wedding left off, yay!), Neal with RumBelle, Neal with the Darlings, Darling Family reunion, Granny hugging Pan!Henry, Ariel & Eric (Gil looks beyond adorable and I’m so happy that Ariel & Eric found their way back to each other in SB – hope we see some of it!).
I really love the shot of Emma with her arms around Henry (well, fake Henry, boo!!!), with Snow, Charming, Grumpy and Hook. They’re all smiling except Grumpy who’s side-eyeing Hook but everyone else is smiling about something. Maybe we’ll finally get the line from Lee about pirates and then they’ll stick up for him. The look Grumpy is giving him makes me think that Charming (likely him anyway) says something about him being helpful/saving his life and Grumpy’s in shock. Very reminiscent of the way he was protective of Snow with Charming when they finally met! Love it!
So many awesome shots. Is it Sunday yet? I need it to be Sunday. I want to see how this all plays out but it looks like it’ll be amazing and emotional and perfect. Hopefully they switch Henry back fast so I can enjoy some of these shots a little bit more (hate that it’s fake Henry), but looking forward to real family shots with him in it!
Pan!Henry and Felix look like they’re up to no good. Boo! Hope they get that straightened out pretty quickly (I think it has to be either 3×10 or 3×11, to wrap up this arc. I don’t think it’ll go beyond that).
So many of these are absolutely adorable and I expect many people will have new avatars as soon as it airs!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Something to think about (shorter I promise!) but that keeps coming up with regards to this episode: the Hook/Neal mini-spat.
The guys have been fairly good about focusing on the mission and doing their part whatever that may be. We haven’t really seen THEM interact much but they’ve been volunteering to help however they can and doing what Emma asks them to. Simple right? So what was with the mini-spat?
Neal is giving out his plan of escape in miniscule sections. Only what is absolutely needed each step of the way. The rest of it is literally “trust me this’ll work” with people who…have various reasons to doubt even though they do trust that he wants Henry safe and to get home. It’s the one thing they can trust him with.
Here’s the thing though. Hook has history with Neverland and Peter Pan as much if not moreso than Neal does. Sure he didn’t escape in the same fashion, but it’s one of the reasons that Emma relies on him for information: she trusts his judgement and knows he’s been here before too. He tells her everything he knows about something and tries his best not to get her hopes up. He believes that they will find a way out, but he still isn’t sure of the exact details of the plan. Only what little bits here and there that Neal is throwing out.
We know that, to Hook, the way to travel in and out of Neverland consists of one of two things:
- Pegasus sail – which he destroyed ages ago
- Magic bean – which nobody has
So TO HOOK – he is concerned about what the plan is. He doesn’t know how the magic coconut trapped shadow is going to get them out of there. He is asking LEGIT QUESTIONS about what the plan is and saying he hopes that Neal has something up his sleeve because he knows he destroyed the easiest way to get out of NL – the pegasus sail. In that moment he is probably kicking himself even though it happened decades if not centuries before Emma or Henry were even born. He never wanted ANYBODY to have to go to NL, the place that basically killed his brother, ever again. But in THIS moment, he is realizing that that stupid sail that he destroyed is exactly what might be needed. So he is WORRIED about the plan that he’s getting in tiny little pieces because Neal hasn’t explained it.
That tension is of course still there between the men for various reasons (a big part of that being Emma of course) but Hook is literally questioning the plan because he doesn’t know what it is! Just that they have to use the coconut somehow but he’s banking on Neal being right about something without having any reason to and it CONCERNS HIM. He hopes that Neal’s plan will work. He needs it to work. But he has history with Neverland as well and isn’t being consulted on any of this so he doesn’t know what Neal has in mind.
Neal’s response to that is to take offense because he knows he’s gotten out of NL before (even though Pan implied it was only because he let him out), and that Hook should just trust him cause it’s his kid that’s involved, not Hook’s. Layer that with wanting to impress Emma and of course he’s upset! His knee-jerk reaction, however, is to insult Hook’s ship…which is basically all he has.
It’s a credit to them that this little spat didn’t escalate as it very well could have. It was a sharp rib to both of them but that trust hasn’t been there in centuries. They can work quite well together and I expect that after they come to an agreement, hopefully about letting Emma choose and letting things go and repairing their friendship that they’ll get along a lot better and of course, someday they’ll have to once Emma has made a choice. I really want the CaptainFire friendship back too though!
That said, all I keep seeing is “yay Neal for not taking Hook’s bait” from that conversation and I just want to scream. Neal insulted the ONE thing that has been consistent in Hook’s life. The ship is his HOME, is the one possession he has that really means anything to him, houses a lot of bad memories etc etc. It is EXTREMELY personal to him, and Neal just insulted it.
This is on BOTH of them. It’s not one egging the other on. It’s both and thankfully they didn’t do anything because of it. They went and did what they had to do for the sake of all. It was full of tension for them yes, but it was a legit question to ask about the plan because Hook SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS a pegasus sail which is the only way he knows to leave other than a bean (as far as we know) and nobody has one of those either. He’s relying heavily on a plan he knows nothing about and made a comment trying to find out what it would be and Neal isn’t budging on that other than to say the plan’s great, hope the ship holds together which implies that he doesn’t think it will. (Neal knows nothing about the state of the Jolly Roger from 3×01, last he saw it was when he drove it back from Manhattan and it was fine then, the comment from what we know he knows, was more of a dig at Hook than anything else).
Hook is big on NOT getting people’s hopes up. We saw that when he told Snowing about Neal being alive first and he actually spelled it out that they should go investigate and rescue him if he is in fact alive so that she doesn’t risk losing him a second time thinking he’s alive if it’s all a lie. Same thing here – he knows that they are all relying on this plan, but he knows nothing about it.
I will be so glad when the tension between the two stops and they can be friends again. Not EVERYTHING they ever say is about the stupid love triangle. It’s not ALWAYS about trying to one-up each other to impress Emma. I feel like Neal feels very threatened right now and reacts that way to absolutely everything Hook says, and Hook doesn’t always go about voicing his opinions on things in the right way to start things, but things get out of control when Neal starts treating it like it IS always about Emma and that nothing else matters. It’s the lighter situation 2.0, but with less shoving and just a quick verbal dig and then walk away.
They HAVE to get along in the future and I’m looking forward to scenes where they are working together and not everything is a knee-jerk reaction about Emma because I really don’t feel like everything they’ve said to each other so far is like that. Hook was legitimately worried about a plan he knows nothing about. It wasn’t as nice of a CaptainFire moment as the magic coconut / are you daft conversation was because the longer this goes on, the more Neal reads into things and gets insulted about it but for all the wrong reasons. They have to build their trust and friendship back up and put it behind them.
But I do think with regards to this specific spat, it was more a case of how are we getting out of here? which turned into “as long as your prized possession holds up, we’ll be fine” with no actual information revealed. For people who were put in their place very recently and were doing whatever Emma told them to, including Hook volunteering to stay behind while Emma goes off with Neal, Regina, and Rumple to complete part of the mission, it seemed like an unnecessary moment to have other than to show there was still a little bit of tension there. It does hark back to the Han/Luke thing with the insulting of the ship and whether it could hold together. Excellent catch on that one!
I have a feeling that for awhile, like within the fandom, everything that is said will be assumed to come back to the triangle. I’m not sure if either guy was going there, or neither, or one reacted because that’s how HE read it, but that tension will likely remain a bit, even if they’re trying to be on their best behavior and on the bright side, it didn’t result in another physical altercation.
It was interesting though that after Hook was insulted and walked off to leave them to their planning and play by team rules and all (not causing a fuss, letting Emma deal with everything as she needed to which right then was to map out a strategy with Neal etc, and he was walking away and not starting a fight but was clearly insulted by what Neal said which was obviously meant as a little dig at him moreso than the ship), Emma’s eyes followed him and looked hurt for him, and THEN she turned back to finish her conversation with Neal and she didn’t bring it up at all.
When Neal was hurt with stuff, she turned to Hook to find out what the deal was. Every time Hook is hurt (thinking back to what happened to him in Manhattan), Emma looks at Hook like she wishes she could do something to help but now’s not the time. She couldn’t help in NY because Rumple was hurt but they made a point of showing us Emma watching him with almost regret that she couldn’t do anything. Same thing here, she had to focus on the mission but her eyes followed him for a moment.
Reminded me too of Hook spilling his heart out in the echo cave and Emma reaching for him and looking like she was about to say something, only to be interrupted and again, not the time. Their timing has been an obstacle but the genuine worry and sympathy is there – they just haven’t gotten everything out yet. Why show us these things if they’re not important? (Also interesting that they recently spoke of timing being an obstacle with Emma’s love life and figuring things out. Every time Emma and Hook make strides, something gets in the way and prevents these little moments and conversations that are bubbling up underneath it all).
I will be so happy when they can finally admit these things to each other and have actual conversations and have Emma realize what she’s been moving toward all season even though she’s not yet ready to let herself admit it. She knows that both men have feelings for her, but she keeps him close. She lets him think he has hope. NEITHER ONE OF THEM (Hook or Emma) is big on false hope. They’ve BOTH expressed not wanting someone to get their hopes up. But here she is, not shutting him down.
I can’t wait to see what happens when they arrive in SB! Pics from the dock when they arrive have Hook right up near the Charmings which is a good sign! I really want Emma to make it clear to the people who weren’t there and don’t have a good opinion of him that Hook was actually really helpful. I want him to be included like everyone else. (I felt so bad for him that everyone else was hugging on the ship but they didn’t show him being upset so that was good. They showed us the time that mattered, when Charming hugged Emma and that’s enough for me because it was a poignant moment about not getting to say goodbye, but everyone else was getting hugs this episode so I felt bad for him). It would be even better if Emma is the one sticking up for him, and I really hope that Snow does too at some point. She was happy he saved Charming but she seems to hold Rumple in higher regard for that right now because he’s the reason she’s not going to be stuck in NL for eternity so she can stay with him. He wouldn’t even be alive if it weren’t for Hook though! They BOTH saved him. (Charming has a very complicated bromance going with arch-enemies lol!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
So many wonderful little nods, even in an episode that was focused more on parent/child! LOVE getting yet another “As you wish” with an added bonus of “my lady” – can’t wait for it to be “my love!”
Seriously, are they even trying anymore? Was so excited when I saw that tweet even though obviously it was scripted in. They know the fanbase was having a meltdown about it before Good Form even aired and that they’re doing this on purpose. Adding another one in was wonderful and she looked up to him when he said it (and Charming – the other half of my BrOTP – was there as well lol).
The eyes…oh the eyes. I worked on my metas on tumblr last night (safer/easier to ignore all the negative stuff) and talked about the eyes from that one clip where Emma is talking to Neal and Hook walks off. Her eyes follow him til he’s completely off screen and THEN she turns back to actually look at the person she’s talking to (Neal).
I didn’t even think about the Han/Leia thing! It was completely unnecessary otherwise because it wasn’t a shippy episode and they were working well together and hadn’t been bringing anything up. I thought it was a good point about how it was going to work without a pegasus sail because that is all Hook knows DOES work. His ship didn’t need to be criticized in the process. It’s all he has.
(By the way how DID the ship get fixed? Did they just have the Lost Boys fix it or something? Rumple was in a box, Regina and Emma were off dealing with Pan…who fixed it??)
Regina’s lines…she is definitely picking up on CS! Earlier in the season she referred to Hook as “Emma’s boyfriend.” Now, after NOT BEING IN THE ECHO CAVES or seeing any of this other stuff go down because she’s been off on her own with Rumple, Neal is just “this….person” *waves hands dismissively* and adds in that Emma has “a pirate who pines for you” – big flashy neon sign that we’re supposed to be remembering that Hook cares for her too. (Also of note – we don’t see Neal’s reaction to any of that even though he’s RIGHT THERE. We see HOOK’s reactions to a lot of intimate moments with various people and Emma, but Neal is there and we see nothing).
Same thing with Henry being alive. We see his parents and grandparents etc relieved, but we spend a lot of time on Hook offering his quarters for Henry to rest in. He hasn’t even SPOKEN to Henry before, and get more out of him than most of the other characters. The only thing he was left out of was all the hugging going on. LOVED that he was standing next to Charming though! Shows how far he’s come that he now gets to stand next to one of the biggest “heroes” of the group side-by-side. They’ve been in shot together before plenty but this was as a united front! (Charming is on our side guys, he just doesn’t want to admit it yet. I will never get over that gif of him tossing Hook his sword and Neal’s just watching with “HUH?” written all over his face lol).
Once again on the ship we have Hook looking down and watching to see if someone is alive. He hasn’t even met Henry until now and he’s anxious and then relieved when he wakes up. Again, everyone there BUT HIM have reason to be worried/relieved about Henry but he is shown right in the middle of it as a reminder that he’s looking out for him too. He’s not just this “pirate” who will be horrible with kids. It’s a POSITIVE interaction with Henry that leads to the future.
Love how Hook’s reaction to random moments are shown but no one else’s. Just like with the Charming/Emma hug goodbye in camp with the lost boys the other day, we see Hook standing right behind the person Emma is looking toward during a significant part of her speech in this episode. We see her parents reaction when she mentions that she learned TODAY just how loved she is. (Hmm, interesting that she said that – considering that it came after Regina’s speech about how she has her parents, and “this…person” and “a pirate who pines for you” – in this speech we see her look at her parents and then turn around to tell Felix to knock it off because if she could find it he could too, but the thing is…she’s speaking in general too. And because of where Felix is located, it’s hard to see exactly who she’s looking at in that moment with her eyeline, but Hook is standing right behind him, keeping him in line. Right after she says that and looks in that direction, Hook is seen swallowing hard (and likely, hoping it means there’s hope for him yet, even if she was talking to Felix).
Once again, when she looks off toward where a couple of people are standing (Hook/Tink or Hook/Felix), HOOK is in the shot. First time being “we’re all going home, together” when only Hook and Tink were in the area, and now if I could find it you can too with Hook/Felix in the area. Somehow I don’t think she’s overly invested in the idea of either Tink or Felix, even if it makes sense to be talking to them (or the whole group of Lost Boys in this case but she was trying to win Felix over since he was causing all the problems right then). Know who we didn’t see? … (The lack of shots with him in key moments is rather odd, don’t you think? Why keep showing us Hook if we’re not meant to see CS, albeit it subtle and in the background of moments that aren’t shippy? Lots of missed opportunity to show Neal and make it less lopsided, right?)
Speaking of which – Emma finally had reason to smile with Neal being around (hear me out on this). She observed the moments she needed to that actually made her happy. What were these? Well the one that comes to mind in big flashy signs is him reuniting with Rumple, aka one of the biggest parts of his story. That didn’t hurt her, that helped her go to Snowing. The only times we see Emma with a smile on her face around Neal are when he’s involved with Rumple or Henry. THOSE are the moments we’re supposed to see so we’re shown her seeing them. It doesn’t change how she feels, but they’re the things she can actually be happy about for him and for their large twisted family with everyone getting along down the line as well. Emma is our eyes through a lot of things and it highlights Neal’s story a bit more – the one we’ve been saying all along is more about Rumple and Henry than Emma.
The Rumple/Neal reunion. THIS TIMES A MILLION. Loved it. Loved that Neal finally saw what his father has been telling him all along. He came back for him. THAT IS HUGE. Why? Because it shows a BIG DIFFERENCE in the storytelling between certain things. Emma is no saint and she abandoned Henry and she is lucky that he wants so badly to be in her life (same with Hook really, she’s abandoned him multiple times too), but overall, abandonment is a killer with everyone else. Snowing meant well and trusted her to find them and then they’d be there forever after that. It hurt Emma, but they were there ASAP AFTER THE CURSE BROKE to start trying to make things up to her. Emma hugs Snowing DIRECTLY AFTER seeing the Rumple/Neal reunion where Neal realized that his papa CAME BACK FOR HIM. It took a long time and he did a lot of awful things, but it was all out of love and HE CAME BACK FOR HIM, NEVER GIVING UP in that quest.
What’s different you might ask? Well it goes back to what happened after Tallahassee. It doesn’t matter how scared Neal was or that he thought he was doing the right thing by her getting her back to her family. By the time we see him in Selfless, Brave, and True, with a postcard practically right around the corner, he’s more afraid of his father coming after him. He’s made himself believe that Emma wouldn’t want to see him and she’s better off where she is and she’s with her family so it’s fine, but she’s not. She’s not with her family UNTIL SHE BREAKS THE CURSE which he suddenly doesn’t seem like he wants broken at all. In Manhattan he tells her he wanted her with her family (which she now is that the curse is broken) but is upset that his father is there. He even offers her a way to never have to see him again that she tries to take him up on, after a conversation that mirrors Milah/Rumple. (Parallels are important!)
The point being: Rumple spent centuries doing whatever it took to get back to him, just like Regina did a lot of things she should regret but it got her to Henry so it DOES NOT MATTER to her because her kid, like Rumple with his, means everything. Same with Emma letting Regina take the Lost Boy’s heart. It got her back to her kid without completely crossing her own moral lines. Neal DID NOT COME BACK for Emma. He decided she was better off without him and moved on with his life, even once she was back in it. He never came back, he never tried. Rumple had a MUCH better reason to give up ages ago and think that Bae was better off but he couldn’t, because he needed Bae to know that he hated himself for letting go of him in the portal. He needed his son to know HOW MUCH HE REGRETTED doing that and that he would never let him go again. (Lots of parallels with other parent/child relationships in this episode especially).
Neal is important and will always be there and his key stuff is with Rumple and Henry and he’s starting to understand why his relationship with Rumple is different to other things. It’s in HIS OWN WORDS that his dad came back for him and he’s realized that he was always doing that and he’s forgiven him BECAUSE OF THAT. Already this season, we’ve seen him mention his regrets (not to Emma) and say how scared he was (not to Emma) and that he blew it (not to Emma) but now he’s acknowledging what IS redeemable in Rumple because AT LEAST HE TRIED. In 3×01, Mulan tells Neal:
Your belief in love wasn’t strong enough to overcome your fear of rejection
which is the exact opposite of what Rumple did even though he had excellent reasons for giving up. We know that Neal is aware of these things. It’s what was driving him to hope for his 2nd chance with Emma. I’ll be very curious to see how things are handled later on because I really want Neal to be more Bae-like (and he has his moments, I’m hoping we see more of them!), but he’s also verbally recognizing some of these things that are rather…conflicting. He wants his 2nd chance with Emma, but he wouldn’t give his dad more chances. Now he’s realized that his dad came back for him and praises him for actually coming back, when he did none of that with Emma.
Neal and Hook are supposed to be coming to some agreement I think in 3×10 which will hopefully consist of letting Emma choose and stopping the petty squabbling. I want them to repair THEIR relationship and stop acting like children so I think it’s likely this will happen. With that said, I still hope that at some point, Neal recognizes that he’s praising Rumple for doing something to win him over, that he never did to win Emma over on the whole 2nd chance path. I think with the way he’s been written this season though that he’ll come to that conclusion. MRJ even said in an interview that Emma doesn’t owe Neal anything which is telling because his character is in freefall with a ton of emotions but before that interview it was all EMMA EMMA EMMA and now it’s more well, maybe it won’t be that. We said that at the end of Dark Hollow even because he was more understanding that it might be that Henry’s the one good thing that came from them being together. I have hope for him yet.
NO IDEA still what the BTS pics with FTL clothes are since things are so jumbled so we’ll have to wait and see but Neal is looking more like Baelfire and Hook is there and everyone is smiling so I hope they’re working together and getting along. I’m a bit concerned that A&E made it sound like we won’t have a resolution to the Emma situation for awhile because she’s not quite there yet (and she does have a LOT to process still) but at the same time I feel like her choice has basically been made she just can’t see it yet. I’m waiting to see what gigantic obstacle the new curses entails and figure out where everything fits in – like with Hook being in NY hugging her and then we see him in the red vest in FTL with people he didn’t know before. *brain freeze* I just really want everyone getting along and I’ll be so happy when the triangle is officially dead. Sadly that won’t be for awhile regardless because everyone will always have hope for their ship, as they should, but I’m tired of stumbling upon anti-FAN stuff when I go to look something up. We’re entitled to love CS as much as they’re entitled to hate it, but I can’ stand what this fandom is doing to each other as fans.
Back to this episode’s goodies!
Charming echoed Emma’s words when he was praising her. He said he didn’t think they could all work together, heroes, villains, a pirate *insert small smile/smirk from both of them* – and that the one thing that kept them united and together was Emma as their leader. He could have stopped at saying he wasn’t sure how they’d all work together. He already had his big over-reacting moment in 3×01 at the idea of it, but he said it again AND singled out Hook as a pirate again instead of lumping him in with the heroes and villains, just like Emma.
This is the 3rd time (if I’m not mistaken) that Charming has talked to Emma about Hook for no apparent reason:
- The elaborate story of how Hook saved him when Hook didn’t think he should say anything (Charming wanted them all to know how grateful he was to Hook, even if the details were a bit off…)
- Charming tells Emma about Liam (sadly we didn’t get to SEE this but again, why bother with that? After learning that Hook saved Charming, we see the KISS right after. Which means that sometime during her freak-out-about-the-kiss time, Charming filled her in on why Hook may have saved him. We don’t know what details he DID include, but we know he told her about his brother dying from Dreamshade. My guess is he talked about the brother but not about the fact that Hook has feelings for her unless it was after the Echo Cave but doubtful. All we know is that AT SOME POINT, Charming told Emma about Hook’s brother and if he hates him so much, he coulda said just about anything else or nothing at all; chalking it up to “he’s a pirate, who knows why he does anything” but like Point 1, he’s talked to Emma about Hook!
- Praising Emma about being a leader and uniting all of them as mentioned above.
Charming doesn’t have to go out of his way to let Emma know anything about Hook, he chooses to. I really think we’ve got Charming and Regina in our corner for sure. (Love that Regina inherited a worthwhile observant skill from Cora, our original shipper!) Snow was standing over near Neal on the ship while Hook was standing with Charming. I think we’ve won one of them over at least which is a start! Snow has definitely been keeping an eye on Emma/Hook interaction though and she did have a small smile when Emma first mentioned the kiss before deflecting which caused Snow to jump to the Neal side again, so hopefully she’ll be won over soon.
In the crazy FTL BTS pics, it looks like Snow and Charming are getting along fine with both Hook and Neal. I want to know why Hook is on a horse (*swoon*) but at least he finally has good people to serve unlike that rotten king from Good Form, whoever he was! I’m a little worried since we don’t see people like Emma, Henry, and Rumple as to where they might be, but we know next to nothing yet. It’s gonna drive me nuts til March but at least we get pretty pictures in FTL clothes?
I’m assuming we’ll be switching Pan and Henry back before we see Rumple with the dagger so it *should* still be REAL Henry traveling with Emma and Hook. I refuse to think they’re going to take Pan with them to NY. I just don’t see the point and Henry & Hook need their bonding time and Emma needs to see Hook with Henry for this to move forward, even if she hasn’t made a choice yet. I’m…completely lost on what happens in NY, where Henry goes when Emma & Hook are out on the streets, what the potion is, why Hook is arrested, who Chris Gorham is playing etc, but I have faith it’ll make more sense later on. I just need Hook and Henry to bond!
Regardless of who she chooses, JMO has already said that Hook is and always will be important to Emma so that means he’s staying and should therefore start getting along with more people. In the BTS pics both from the ship coming to SB and the FTL gibberish that we can’t decipher yet, Hook is a part of the group. In fact, with the dock pictures, Hook is up with the Charmings while Neal is in the back of the group with Wendy and her brothers and some of the other people there. We know Hook goes with Emma somewhere to do something, details are fuzzy, but he’s still a part of things, and then of course there’s the NY stuff.
So I fully expect him to be continuing to prove himself helpful and a part of things in the future, especially if Emma has anything to say about it. Pretty sure Charming will be in his corner as well. Right now I think Charming (as protective as he is), sees some goodness in Hook and would be open to CS if it’s what Emma wants. He’s been in her position, they need to talk more (preferably ON SCREEN), but I think he’ll ultimately get it. Hook has been going through ProtectiveDaddyCharmingBootcamp and passing with flying colors, making great strides this season so I’m not too worried about that. As for Cora / Regina – the other CS observers, they have no invested interest. To them it’s almost more of an annoyance – Cora being betrayed because he was drawn to Emma, Regina having to put up with Emma always taking his side on things. To me that carries more weight than someone who is already in someone’s corner because they have to be. Rumple doesn’t want Neal to get hurt so of course he’s on Neal’s side. Henry will probably want his parents together, but he’s also a big proponent of TL and likely to realize down the line that they’re better as friends. (I think he’ll like having Hook around too and it’ll help to see him with Charming as well).
I seriously don’t think that they built up this big redemption story for Hook, and showed just HOW DEVOTED and loyal he is when he loves (similar to Snowing who can’t imagine EVER loving someone else), and having him overcome that, like Regina and everyone else this season, only to put Emma back with the guy who broke her heart (well-meaning or not, he never came back to explain and if someone did that to me, and still chose his fiancee until she tried to kill him, and THEN wanted me back there’s no way anybody I know would be ok with that and it’s what EMMA feels, not how badly we feel for Neal and his “sacrifice” that apparently also included moving on with someone else even when Emma is standing right in front of him pouring her heart out about how painful it is to see him with her).
I just can’t see Hook turning around after she chooses Neal and then bam, he’s got a new love interest. I also don’t see the ONE CHARACTER we have been shown who loves fiercely and does everything he does through love, not end up with a happy ending. We also don’t have 300 more years for him to get through for us to see him find someone new. It would be completely tragic, especially since it looks like both Rumple and Regina will have their true loves in Belle and Robin Hood. From what we know of Hook’s character, it just doesn’t add up, whereas we’ve heard and seen Neal several times alude to the idea that he can (and has…) move on, and that Henry might be the only good thing between them. They will be in each others lives no matter what, but he’s already proven that he can leave her behind and, as much as it hurt him to do so initially, was prepared to do it again and again because he was too afraid to go back and try (which goes against EVERYTHING we have seen from TL couples – with TL on this show, if there’s even a CHANCE that the other could be alive, they do whatever it takes to get back to them. Neal knew she was out there and did nothing.)
To me, it is very much like Rumple with this whole 1st love / other love / true love thing. I can’t remember who said it and whether it was here or tumblr or both but let’s compare:
Rumple:
1st love – Milah (son together but not right for each other)
Other love – Cora (psycho)
True Love – Belle (brings out the best in him)
Neal:
1st love – Emma (son together but not right for each other)
Other love – Tamara (psycho doesn’t even begin to cover it)
True Love – ____ ? (brings out the best in him)
Likewise, compare Emma and Hook:
Hook :
1st love – Milah (painful loss but never brought out the best in him)
Flirt / whatever – (never enough to overcome loss of first love)
True Love – Emma (brings out the best in him; work well as a TEAM and respect each other; makes him want to move on from first love)
Emma:
1st love – Neal (painful loss but never brought out the best in her)
One-night-stands / whatever – (never enough to overcome loss of first love)
True Love – Killian Jones (brings out the best in her; work well as a TEAM and respect each other; makes her want to move on from first love)
With a second “As you wish” and everything else we’ve been shown from quotes to camera angles to how things are presented to us, and then the comparisons to couples that we know end up together, on top of parallels to Snowing and parallels for N/E to Milah/Rumple, I just…I can’t start doubting now. It’s not gonna be smooth sailing and they’re gonna drag it out longer than any of us want (I can’t handle it over too many more hiatuses though grr), but I really think with the way they’ve built it up so far this season, that Emma will choose Hook, it’s a matter of when, not if. The language has been pretty clear on that so far.
She will always have a place in her heart for Neal and it’ll be tough to get past for a bit because he’s right there and he’s wanting another chance and sometimes it’s hard to think about the bad stuff when you’re reminded of the good stuff, but I really don’t think she’s going back. They just haven’t been setting them up in line with all the other TL couples on the show. They haven’t. I was afraid they would be this season. That suddenly they were going to try and make us believe that both guys really have a chance but I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing tons of places where they could have made me panic but it’s having the opposite affect right now.
They may do that in the second half, I’m not sure. Neal is on a path to embrace more of his Baelfire side (or so it seems) which will likely just make it more difficult for Emma, but I really just don’t think they can go back to what they were over a decade ago, and it’s a matter of them realizing that. They weren’t “bad” together BACK THEN but they also didn’t have the “make each other the best versions of themselves” thing like all the other couples we’ve seen (or at least the TL ones who have been featured heavily) and we also haven’t seen the complete BELIEF and SUPPORT that we see from the other couples like we have seen with Emma & Hook. It really doesn’t matter what happened over a decade ago, if that same complete belief and support isn’t there *now* – it doesn’t. We’ve seen Emma embracing her magic this season and Neal’s reaction to THAT is always shown, whereas they leave him out of the CS moments while Hook is seen during SF or Charming/Emma moments. It just…I can’t add it up any other way. It’s too lopsided.
Adam has said for a long time that they’re not writing a triangle, they’re telling a story. In the past, triangles have been obstacles but we’ve always known who was supposed to end up together and watching them be drawn to that person even when another option presents itself whether they remember who they are or not. So what is the point of having one? There isn’t. It is literally here is Emma’s past which haunted her for ages, showing how it affects a shot at something real, and then overcoming it and finding who she’s meant to be with. Hmm, sounds kinda like Hook: seeing his past, showing how it affects the choices he makes that could lead to something real with someone else, overcoming it and finding who he’s meant to be with.
The whole season has been about these things! Showing us how TL should look and embracing who people really are and letting go of the pasts that have damaged their potential at anything new. Regina has faced that with Daniel and Robin Hood (she’s getting there at least), Hook with Milah and Emma. It’s just a matter of timing with Neal and getting the “triangle” situation cleared up and then somebody BETTER FOR HIM will appear.
This is not about who’s better Neal or Hook. This isn’t about who “deserves” THE central character. Just because Emma is VASTLY IMPORTANT to the show does not mean that she’s just the best thing ever and that any guy who doesn’t end up with her is getting stuck with someone awful just to have someone. It means that whoever is left IS NOT RIGHT FOR EMMA which means that they ARE RIGHT FOR SOMEONE ELSE and at the end of the day, EVERY character should be with whoever their TRUE LOVE is, not who we as an audience think should get the main girl on the show.
Neal will be around no matter what, he’s part of the twisted family and has a lot of story with Rumple and Henry and he’s the main reason for the curse in the first place. JMO has already said that no matter what, Hook is and always will be important to Emma (because he came back for her, something nobody else – other than Henry – has done; interesting how that seems to be a reason but we get called delusional for putting any emphasis on it. It’s also another parallel from her TL with Henry to Hook!)
Both guys will always be around. So why can’t we want for both of them to actually end up with who they’re supposed to be with? Their TRUE LOVES, whoever that may be? I’m a huge Killian fan. I want him to be HAPPY and the way they’ve written his story, I don’t see how that could be with anyone but Emma. If that’s what they want me to believe, they are falling WAY BEHIND on making it happen and will make it feel very odd if they shove it in later. I want him to not end up alone but I want it to be BELIEVABLE and the way they’ve written his loyalty and undying love, I can’t imagine him moving on from Emma while she’s alive, or getting over her death in the amount of time we have for the show.
Likewise, I’m sure there are many who love Neal (I like him as a character outside of his relationship with Emma, and I actually want him HAPPY TOO – plus of course I love Bae), who want him to be happy. OF COURSE it will hurt if he loses Emma again. But he’s already shown that he can move on so it’s a matter of when that will happen. RIGHT NOW he’s focused on Emma (even though he was engaged a week ago and still hasn’t dealt with it) but at the end of all this, I want him to be with who HIS True Love is. If it’s their TRUE LOVE, nobody is settling for 2nd best or taking what they can get because they lost the one. They’re NOT the one if it’s not the true love. They’re just not.
The way they’ve written Neal, while he obviously has feelings for Emma, he also has a lot of other stuff going on, it hasn’t been paralleled to the other TLs on the show, and he’s already proven he can move on and said he can move on if he knows she’s happy. I would hope at the end of the day that we want ALL 3 CHARACTERS to find who they’re actually supposed to be with, rather than just hoping that our favorite guy gets “THE girl.”
Milah and Rumple was tragic, as was Rumple and Cora. If we saw their stories in linear progression, hoping that they wouldn’t get hurt RIGHT THEN, would have been extremely painful. It was only in SEEING that better things lay ahead for him that it became “ok” to block that stuff out. Milah/Rumple is very very similar to Emma/Neal. (It’s why it scares me that if Emma hurts Neal the fanbase will turn on her and some of it already has…) but when push comes to shove, Rumple BELONGS with Belle. He didn’t know that all those years ago when he was hurt BADLY and then hurt AGAIN by Cora (like Neal with Emma and then Tamara under different circumstances at least), but now he has BELLE and it’s BEAUTIFUL. I love RumBelle!
I expect the same thing for Neal and they’ve written him in such a way that while Neal/Emma and Neal/Tamara were tragic in their own ways for him, he WILL end up with whoever he is SUPPOSED to be with. They’ve written him in a way that he CAN move on and that when he does, it’ll be because he’s actually moved on and not because he lost his first choice. It’ll be because he genuinely loves the other person and realizes how wrong the earlier ones were for him.
Rumple figured that out when he found out Milah was alive and had willingly run off with Hook. It hurt him more that she abandoned Bae. By the time we see him with Cora again, he’s in love with Belle and Cora, while she’ll probably always have a little piece of his heart because he remembers caring for her, is of no importance. She’s in the past. He has Belle now. I want the same for Neal. Like Emma said, they’ll always love each other. But that doesn’t have to mean that they’re IN love with one another and will never love anyone else. Emma didn’t let herself care about anyone until she thought Neal was officially in the past and dead, and then when he came back before she had time to process that, she crumbled and pushed it down. Neal knew she was out there somewhere and decided that it didn’t matter and tried to move on. The woman he moved on with was psycho but I have faith he will find whoever he is MEANT to be with and that’s all that matters. It’s tragic AT THE TIME, but it can’t be/won’t be True Love if it’s not with the actual, you know, TL. Just saying.
As for the manipulation stuff from Pan – completely agree with everything that has been said here. It’s kinda sickening, especially since we know how Emma feels about the idea that her relationship with Neal was orchestrated by someone (though she thought it was him or his father. Emma – you forgot a generation, just go up one). Seriously, I can’t see how it WASN’T orchestrated. Neal left NL at a convenient time, they just happened to find each other in the real world and make a child that Pan so desperately wanted that he send the Darling boys to go adopt Henry in Boston – a place where the kid shouldn’t have been in the first place since he was born in Phoenix. TOO MANY COINCIDENCES. Emma is big on CHOICE and doesn’t like having her entire life be one big manipulation by forces beyond her control. That’s why with Emma it needs to BE a choice and it’s up to her and her alone. (And I really truly believe for enough reasons I could probably write 5 books on, that her choice will be Killian. It’s just a matter of time).
As for proving that….I don’t think they really can anytime soon. Every way that we’ve heard of for proving it has some loophole that I can come up with that potentially makes it null and void. Their interviews about various things are confusing at best (I refuse to believe they meant to imply the outcome of the triangle where there are so many loopholes on Henry’s heart it’s ridiculous), and there’s too many onscreen loopholes as well. (Not that all of their interviews are taken in 100% trust or many would have stopped theorizing years ago that Blue was bad or sneaky) but each way of proving anything *potentially – depending on how they present it* has a massive loophole.
The only thing that might not, since they used it as 100% proof earlier this season for Regina and Robin Hood (followed by them saying it was proof) would be the pixie dust (which, conveniently, Tink now has! She just needs her wings back first but maybe after that – which I’m guessing will take some time…. – she could use it on her good friend Hook and have it lead to Emma or vice versa.) Anything else could be questionable since we know she “loves” Neal genuinely but that doesn’t mean it has to be that they’re IN love. The dust shows soulmate / who they’re meant to be with (as per Tink and A&E) so I have a feeling we may be waiting on Tink to go on a quest to get her wings back before we have any definitive answers. I doubt they’ll go to Blue to settle this, and, I really hope that when we find out, it’s because Emma has made a choice and THEN Tink offers to help prove it for whoever still doubts it kind of thing IF they feel the need to go that route. I’d love it if Emma’s word on whatever was enough, but then there will always be doubts of some kind and every “proof” has a loophole so far so…until we know more, hopefully her choice will be enough to convince the characters and the fans and we can be rid of this stupid “triangle” perpetuated by the fans even though we’ve seen saying this from the beginning.
I seriously was afraid of this season because I thought they would amp up the triangle and make it a free-for-all but I am more and more convinced that it really isn’t one. It’s about letting go of the past so that she can get to the future she’s meant to, just like Regina, Hook, and Neal eventually too. That’s the journey they’re on right now.
So many wonderful things even in a non-shippy episode. They’re REMINDING US that Hook and Emma have this thing going on, even when they don’t share quiet moments alone. They’re keeping it at the forefront of our minds just like they have all season, and now that they’re home (though they now have the obstacle of fixing Henry and then goodness knows what will happen after that), that’s when the fun begins!
So keep calm & ship CaptainSwan. Have faith! (And cookies, rum, coconuts, whatever else you wish). There’s still a VERY good chance we’re right about all of this and that she will choose him. Look how far we’ve come!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I’ve been swamped lately so haven’t had much time to stop in here but I have…no idea what’s going on at this point but have seen some lovely BTS pics on tumblr.
I love FTL stuff so I’m looking forward to it being explained why they’re all there and in their FTL costumes even though it should definitely be after everything that’s happened despite the fact that Snow has long hair again (very confusing but seems to be too much for a dream sequence so…I’ll have to wait for more info).
Obviously love seeing Hook on a horse *swoon*, no idea what that’s about yet but I like it. Also – red vest (YAY!). Hotness does not affect my shipping choices (both men are amazing) but I definitely appreciate whoever decided to put him on a horse cause those shots are gorgeous.
Neal in Bae clothes? Does that mean he’s finally embracing the best part of himself? I hope so! I really want to like the character more (he does have his moments for me even though I usually only talk about him in relationship with Emma) and the biggest issue for me stopping that is that I love love love Bae but there’s a disconnect with Neal most of the time so I’m really excited to see him in FTL clothes and hopefully embracing his Bae side.
Plus the point of the NL arc was to help them embrace who they really are and he’s been pushing that version of himself down for a long time. Accepting being Baelfire would go a long way to connect the child to the adult I think. If he’s going to find love (which I’m sure of, it’s just a matter of when and who, be it Emma or someone else), he needs to become the best version of himself like we see Belle bring out in Rumple etc. It has saddened me, this season especially, to see how much he’s trying to erase the Baelfire side because that is the best version of him (in my opinion). So yay for seeing him in Bae-esque clothing as an adult (and looking great in them too! Not that it matters cause the entire cast is gorgeous and I definitely don’t ship based on hotness factor *gag at the ridiculousness of that concept* but I am capable of appreciating how gorgeous this cast is, even if I don’t want every hot guy with Emma! OUAT has a giant fleet but I swear Emma has the largest section of it all to herself!)
Seems like Hook and Neal are in good with the Charmings which should mean that people are getting along a lot better – yay! I want the CaptainFire relationship repaired regardless of the triangle, but it makes me happy to see the Charmings hanging around nearby Hook on the horse, and Neal was nearby too. This family tree is a tangled web but at the end of the day, they’re all too important to not have them getting along at least a little. Even Regina is nearby the rest of the group!
Side note – now that they’re in FTL, if it is the present/future, does that mean Regina can’t harm Snow or Charming anymore even if she wanted to? If so, I’m glad they’re setting it up right now that she’s cooperating and working alongside them so it’s more of a choice not to harm them anymore than just making it impossible for her to do so. Better for her redemption arc but I’m enjoying her this season and think she’s closer to it than ever so it’ll be interesting to see what happens once she’s back in the EF where she’s in EQ clothing and having to convince people she’s not that person anymore. Maybe we’ll see her clothes change back more toward the younger Regina at some point.
No idea where Rumple is but I’m really curious how he looks at this point. Maybe that’s why we haven’t seen him? They might be keeping his “undoing” under wraps as much as possible and filming him somewhere else to add in later so that we don’t see that he’s not the Dark One if it is a future in FTL? Because everything else gets spoiled and they know that and haven’t stopped trying much in some cases (though they do block the streets a bit for some stuff) but I feel like maybe they really want to hide him so we don’t know for sure that it was his undoing. (Can’t think of another acceptable reason for him not being there unless it is a dream or something happened to him and they need to go rescue him or something cause I’m completely confused).
Belle has new clothes! Love the purple dress – I’m not huge on fashion and some of the outfits are over the top and crazy for me but I really love the color of that dress and yay for seeing her involved with everyone! I’m especially looking forward to her bonding with Neal and working together to be Rumple’s happy ending and all that, but I’m also ecstatic that she’ll be more involved with everything because she’s pretty awesome but hasn’t been given *much* to do that doesn’t directly involve Rumple. When she was on her own she showed how awesome and tough she is so I’m looking forward to that combination. (And I want more RumBelle actually being together too so yay for her being around more).
TEAM PRINCESS – love love love seeing them all together! (Where’s Ariel though, grr, or Cinderella for that matter, but yay for Belle, Snow, Aurora. It’s awesome seeing them all together though, and in FTL clothes, yay!). I really do love the clothes in the EF more so than SB. Plus it’s awesome that Snow’s hair is long again.
The potions – no idea. Seems like a lot of people have possession of potions which is…interesting. I’ve lost track of how many of them we’ve seen so far. The ones that spring to mind are Tamara, Peter Pan, Regina, and Hook. It’s getting out of hand. WHAT IS IN THAT BOTTLE?? And are they the same thing, similar, or just a lot of bottles going around?
I’ve seen so many interesting theories based on all this stuff that I don’t know what to think anymore. Do they remember SB and Emma and Henry? Is this way in the future or present day or flashback? (I don’t see how it would be a flashback with them all there together). I don’t think it’s a re-do alt timeline because too many things don’t add up for me. Even if Regina doesn’t use the curse, Neal is still alive today meaning that Rumple let go of him and he’s in NL and if he knows Hook then the Milah stuff still played out the way it did and they’re both back in the EF instead of Neal being in the real world which defeats the whole purpose of the curse in the first place, whether it was cast or not. I’m so confused! Every theory has too many holes in it (and again, where are Emma and Henry?!? And why was Hook in NY and then in the EF? Are these things connected?)
I really hope they’re right and we get an excellent idea of where things are headed at the end of 3×11 cause I’m just lost. I feel like the more we know, the less makes sense and every great theory has a bunch of holes in it. Hopefully we know more soon that actually adds up! (That being said, a part of me enjoys the idea we might actually be surprised by stuff but I don’t like the idea of having a meltdown for 4 months until we see this stuff).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Not sure what to make of this but just saw this tweet:
Heard @colinodonoghue1 was practicing all day to ride the horse in his scene today! He rode quite well too! #OUAT
— Kollie B (@Kollie) November 27, 2013
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Right now I’m thinking dream for Rumple because everybody is dressed as he’s used to seeing them or has seen them in the past. Snow’s hair is long so unless they’re time-jumping it doesn’t make sense, yet they’re all in their FTL flashback clothes (including Belle’s gown she hasn’t worn since right after she met Rumple), yet Neal and Hook are there too. Something does not add up. There’s no sign of Emma or Henry but it really looks like flashback Snow, only that doesn’t make sense if grown up Neal (in Bae-like clothes) and Hook (in the red vest) are there too. So I’m not jumping for joy about the red vest just yet, because I don’t think it’s actually back much less because of Emma – YET. I do think it will be eventually though!
I’m basically torn on those pics because something just doesn’t add up! It really really looks like a disjointed flashback but we know they can’t all be there and at those ages at the same time. We haven’t seen anybody go back to FTL or NL and just change clothes into their typical attire there with the exception of Rumple, so I find it hard to believe that by 3×13, they’re back in the EF and wearing their old clothes right away and that Snow’s hair has significantly grown unless again – timejump, which is possible. They could do that to write in Ginny’s pregnancy but her hair is realllly long in those pics so I’m just not sure.
Also there’s the confusion that stems from Emma and Henry’s absence here. Hook’s there, but as far as we know, he’s in NY with Emma and Henry. So again…what the heck is going on??
I think we’re all going to stay confused until we get more info. Hopefully by the end of 3×11 we have an idea of what might be real and what would make more sense as a weird dream or something. There ARE those pics of Hook offering some kind of potion to Emma and we have NO IDEA what the deal with the new curse is etc. We don’t even know if the NY stuff is real! (Though I imagine it is cause it seems like there’s way too much filmed for it to be a dream thing) but I’m still very very lost.
I’m kinda like either the dream theory or the photo shoot theory right now. (Someone suggested it might be for new photos for the 2nd half of the season since they’re treating it like 2 mini-seasons and the ones for the first half were all NL.
Still, no idea what’s going on! So many options but things are definitely NOT adding up between the lack of Emma and Henry, the fact that most are supposedly in the EF but NOT Hook and his very sudden wardrobe change from all black in NY to wearing the red vest in the EF which also begs the question of where his ship is at that point because we don’t know if they borrowed it to get to the EF in which case, how’d he get his red vest back?
So many questions! I’m inclined to think that right now most are in the EF, and Hook is with Emma and Henry in NY. I think some of those pics had to have been BTS because I swear Hook was standing with the group and smiling but it could be an AU of some sort as well that shows what might have happened differently, but even that messes up the tword simply because Neal and Hook are there with everyone else we know is MUCH younger than them. So I’m completely confused right now. Especially because Hook’s there and Emma’s not. Between that, the wardrobe, the long hair for Snow, I just don’t know what to think unless there is a massive time jump and everyone’s getting along all of a sudden, or it’s somebody’s dream which…I can’t really explain that happening right now either!
So much to ponder over the stupid hiatus I suppose! Eek! Hope we have more to go on soon at least! But we should get some shots of the red vest again regardless – though I’d prefer it to be because of and around Emma of course. 😉
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I’m inclined to think Dream as well. If they’re shooting 3×13, perhaps it goes along with the idea of Witch Hunt? If it IS the Oz thing, it could totally be a dream someone’s having (and Snow’s hair being long again, Neal wearing Bae-esque clothing etc), and it could be a nod with them waking up and talking about a dream with the “and you were there and you and you” etc etc (although not sure if they could get away with that in too obvious of a way since it’s from the movie and not the books for Oz but it would also be totally plausible if whoever is dreaming snaps out of it and says they saw all of them.
I was debating time jump so that they could write in Ginny’s pregnancy as well. But her hair shouldn’t be that long unless it’s a considerable jump and in that case, where are Emma and Henry? I don’t want them all separated from everyone else for too long but I’d be surprised to see them catch up with the others quickly and it seems strange that everyone is back in their old clothes for no apparent reason, and that Snow’s hair is considerably longer so I think this has to be a dream sequence right? Otherwise it makes very little sense.
I hope we have more to go on by the end of 3×11 cause right now the second half of the season isn’t making a whole lot of sense!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
