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Unfortunately some things get cut so a little of that comes from that. The rest is…interpretation based on what people witness. For instance, any scene might *look* one way, regardless of whether it’s reality or a dream. As for the specific Ariel stuff yeah that was odd – they didn’t meet in NL but he was probably told that Ariel was in NL which she was in present day and it all got jumbled. I think the crab scene was just cut though, as are many things sadly.
At this point I only trust what Adam and Eddy say, and then within the show where there’s context. It’s very easy for people to blow things out of proportion based on what they see when on set or what they’re told at any given time and then things get cut with no prior warning, or what they’re told is only a semi-truth. The Lana as Ursula stuff HAD to be confusing for people because they were told she wasn’t going to be Ursula which is true, yet clearly there she is basically as Ursula which is hard to deny when you see Lana playing the part so again, interpretation is everything.
I’m trying to remember if there were any set things from when dream sequences happened where people would see something going on and say this is what’s happening guys!!! only to be wrong once context is given. Thankfully they don’t do it often but every once in awhile there’s a nightmare to show where a character’s head is at that time and it certainly makes it look real for people who are just on the sidelines. Conflicting information from what they’re told vs what they see, people typically go with what they see and assume that minds were changed or that they didn’t understand the first time and misheard it or something. So I’m not TOO surprised that people are getting all kinds of things apparently wrong these days. It actually makes me a little happy because anytime they film with people around, too much gets out. Even with all that we’ve had get out this season recently, there’s still lots of confusion as to what it all actually means which leaves us to speculate and not just here’s what’s happening. (They really need to go back to not letting things get out though – it spoils plot points that would have been nice as surprises and/or ruins that various people are fine etc etc). I was enjoying having little bits to go off of and speculate more than here’s a shot by shot of what’s happening, so just wait for the editing and dialogue! but we’ll see how close things match up once they’re actually on the show. For now it’s anyone’s guess with regards to…just about everything.
Doesn’t make it any less annoying though since people takes these articles at face value and then act like Adam is the one that personally offended them by saying one thing and doing another. If it’s not a quote from him or Eddy, it just can’t be trusted and even then tone is a necessity since sarcasm doesn’t read well at all. All these articles work off the same material mostly and then put their 2 cents in which means very little in the grand scheme of things, but people take that paraphrasing with the interpretation and run with it that this that or the other is 100% true when it may or may not be. Better to just trust Adam & Eddy and take the rest of these things with a grain of salt.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Not sure if he’s answered this before (can’t remember at this point) but he just said this about the Darlings and which world they’re from – not sure if this helps anybody but here you go!
@RachelWaight our world
— Adam Horowitz (@AdamHorowitzLA) November 16, 2013
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Loved those tumblr links, thanks for sharing! I read them a bit ago and hadn’t made it back here yet so was happy to see them brought over! I love that we have so many long elaborate gifsets of things from other things I love like Princess Bride too! (So far 2 long ones – Princess Bride and Tangled, + metas of Star Wars, love it!). Also um, that long meta with the clues was amazing and puts together a lot of what we’ve been saying all along is significant and serves no purpose other than to direct attention to CaptainSwan and set it up beautifully! Love how so much more will fit into place upon rewatching it and I hope once a choice is made that people WILL see the setup and that it has been there from the start. I am so sick of hearing about “fanservice” or that they switched things up because he got such a positive response etc etc. Adam keeps saying their vision is in tact and this is what has been hinted about for agessss even back when many of us were called delusional!
Setup has definitely been there since Hook was first introduced and I love it! Can’t wait to see it all go together and where they go from here once she makes her choice. So excited with everything I’m seeing right now so keeping the faith for sure. There’s just too much overwhelming evidence for me so as long as I focus on that I’m fine. Even when things seem like they might go remotely the other way I’m pulled back with the abundance of clues saying we have a legit chance or we’re very very right. Either way we’ve been reading Killian right from the start so yay! So many things from the beanstalk have started to pay off that we were “crazy” for seeing originally so I’m thrilled with that. This season has been amazing!
Something else I wanted to add here even though I mentioned it in one of my tumblr posts earlier: the bridge in the Echo cave.
Hook, Snow, and Charming had to give their secrets to reveal the bridge. If it had been missing even one piece, nobody could go across to get Neal so it doesn’t matter which way the bridge is built, from either end, yet they started with HOOK’s secret and they had the bridge going AWAY from Neal instead of toward him. This is significant because Hook’s secret was about moving on from a first love and Emma’s secret was that she was hoping Neal was dead so that it would be easier for her to move on from him, aka her first love.
The bridge COULD have been built going toward Neal and away from Hook but instead the bridge for Emma to go across was built going away from Neal and toward Hook. That entire scene was focused on Hook’s reactions to what he was seeing, and Emma turning to him to get the strength to cross the bridge in the first place, just like she’s looked to him for strength every step of the way so far in NL.
Every CaptainSwan moment we’ve had just the two of them, we didn’t see the reactions from someone watching. It focuses on THEM and nobody else. Yet in the moments when Neal and Emma are alone, they show Hook’s reactions to it. They put the focus on him being hurt by what he sees. The only time they DIDN’T do that? Where they actually showed an Emma/Neal moment alone? Was when Neal told Emma that maybe Henry was the one good thing that came out of them being together.
This season has been big on BELIEVING and moving on from living in the past and first loves and believing in the power of a couple’s love. It was interesting that in this episode we saw:
- Snowing – Charming wanted Snow to leave NL and not be stuck there with him and he knew she’d gladly stay to be with him which is what their fight was all about; they then talk about needing to believe in each other which is what they’ve always done. Usually it’s Snow faltering and Charming being there to reassure her but in this moment, we saw Snow be the strong one and reminding Charming that they need to believe in each other and that they love and need and believe in each other (CANON TRUE LOVE COUPLE)
- RumBelle – we saw Belle start to not believe in her and Rumple being together forever because she would have happily gone with him but he made her stay behind; then through Ariel, Belle gets the message from Rumple about what he needs her to do and says to believe in the power of their love and she follows the chipped cup to his hiding space and realizes just how much he needs her and loves her and BELIEVES in her (CANON TRUE LOVE COUPLE)
Then we have an interesting thing happen with the CSF triangle:
- CaptainSwan – moments alone talking about how much he believes in her and has no doubt in his mind that she’ll save Henry and that after that she’ll choose him and they’ll be together because she wants that too; and Emma looking to Hook for everything and getting her strength from him / believing him when he believes in her when she gives everyone else who does grief about it including her parents for being “infuriatingly optimistic” when she’s scared about whether she can save him or not (even though she’s determined to do it and like Hook says, he’s never seen her fail)
- SwanFire – no relationship moments alone, no talk of belief, only an acceptance that maybe Henry is the one good thing that came out of them being together and that saving him is the most important thing which it is (for both of them especially as well as everyone else)
So basically we watched Snowing and RumBelle and CaptainSwan all have these moments that were both relationship-related in a positive way as well as focusing on the belief in each other that holds them together and the genuine feelings and gathering strength from their love and using it to go forward and do whatever needs to be done so that they can be together.
- Snowing – Snow is willing to stay in NL, even away from EMMA, so that she can be with Charming because they need to be TOGETHER
- RumBelle – Rumple tells Ariel to let Belle know that she was right, she WILL see him again (prompting a look from Regina like “Do you really want to give her that much hope? We have a ways to go still to defeating Pan…”) where he is confident that they WILL be TOGETHER no matter what
- CaptainSwan – Hook tells Emma that he WILL win her heart and after they get Henry out of NL (which he believes without question that they WILL), THEN they can make steps toward being together because he believes that Emma WILL choose him which again means them being TOGETHER
And then Swanfire – Henry may be the only good thing and that’s enough.
One of these things just is not like the other one and it’s all within the same episode that is focusing on each of these things being highly relevant.
Was so so happy to see more of JMO’s comments because it really is praising Hook and talking about how selfless he’s being and that Emma is being surprised by him in a GOOD WAY and that he’s genuinely HELPING HER and that he’s doing for her things that nobody else has and he will ALWAYS BE IMPORTANT TO HER no matter what. These are all very POSITIVE things from the woman who knows way more about Emma than any of us do and she’s saying that Hook is a GOOD THING in Emma’s life which is what we’ve been saying all along.
Emma may be a savior but she’s not a saint either. JMO has even said that Emma is a bit of a pirate herself at times. We haven’t seen tons of her past yet but there’s enough in it for her to recognize that Snow and Charming see her one way and have no idea the life she’s led (she pointed that out in S2 about not being a good enough mother) and we’ve seen that they don’t know tons about it based on the way they’re behaving right now.
Chomping at the bit for the next episode!!! So sad that we have a week off after that (stupid AMAs, grr) and I have no idea how we’ll survive the hiatus after that but S3 has been so good to us and I have faith it will continue to be! Looking forward to something new to pour over within context and find out what’s actually said in moments rather than guessing and filling in the blanks!
Headcanon is fun but all too often it fills up the blanks that we eventually get information to fill in and it gets blurred together or that other interpretation of what might happen refuses to go away and I feel like Hook especially gets the brunt of that (especially with the pirate stuff that automatically gets all kinds of other horrible things thrown at him we’ve seen no evidence for) but in the long run I fully expect the CaptainSwan love story to be flushed out more and more and in such a way that people will ultimately be happy seeing EMMA be happy. That’s what I want above all for her and Killian makes her smile. Can’t wait until we see them taking advantage of the little moments here and there like Snowing and grabbing a kiss or a hug! Emma deserves to be happy and actually enjoy a man’s company and I could totally see them being affectionate like Snowing is once Emma’s walls come down and she accepts how much Killian means to her! (We also need for her to call him Killian and admit she loves him – both of these things will be huge but we must be patient – hopefully not for too long!) I still think at some point, since we’ve seen Rumple reattach limbs and we’ve known since Skin Deep that he has Hook’s preserved hand, that someday we will see Emma reattach it and literally and figuratively make him whole again and let him be Killian again (which she is the only one who has ever been able to do that, not even Milah could make him the man he once was and wants to be again which IS very important!). So excited!
Best versions of themselves, belief, trust – all of these things are extremely important and only a few of the reasons why I completely believe in CaptainSwan. Yay for S3 being so good to us!
Edited to add: now I feel compelled to go watch Syfy’s “Alice” mini-series! Not one of my favorites ever but I do really love Halice! As much as I adore Jefferson/Sebastian Stan, Andrew Lee Potts will always be the Hatter I fell in love with and tumblr people are making tons of gifsets comparing CaptainSwan to Halice now as well. FEELS! (If you haven’t watched it you should just for Hatter and Alice. It makes up for everything else. Trust me!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I love that JMO states plainly that Hook being in Emma’s life is a GOOD THING and that he is being SELFLESS and HELPFUL and surprising her IN A GOOD WAY over and over again. Coming straight from the source so every argument against that is proven false. Love it!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Yay for more pictures even without context. I have a million ideas running through my head but all I can remember right now is that someone pointed out on tumblr that he’s in all black and she’s got a long red coat on and it’s Westley/Buttercup colors! (Yes I know her little red jacket matches Charming’s red jacket so it makes sense but I can’t help remembering Emma wearing a red dress in the pilot – it looks pink in some lights but mostly red – and the red jacket and now a long red jacket and now that it’s been pointed out to me I just can’t stop thinking about it! Kinda like wondering if her tattoo happens to be of a buttercup and just also manages to match Charming’s shield – I need answers!)
Also – the CS theme WAS in Tallahassee so it was there FROM THE BEGINNING as well, just like we’ve said. I’m so sick of people saying that fans forced their hands into doing us some really big fanservice and that it was never their intention to go this route when Adam has said over and over again that his vision for the Hook storyline (and for how Hook and Emma’s storylines would overlap) is still in tact so just keep believing! As a writer I am continually offended on their behalf, especially Adam’s since he puts up with so much garbage on twitter. This is the story they wanted to tell. Sometimes the little details of how they get from point A to point B change along the way, but the general story is the same. That and they wanted Hook IN SEASON 1 and people still think he’s new enough to get rid of since he didn’t start out on the show BECAUSE OF A RIGHTS ISSUE ONLY. *headdesk*
As for the Neal stuff I struggle with that too. I like him sometimes and want to shake him others. I really really think if he WASN’T Bae – it would be way more cut and dried. I can’t imagine anybody being totally fine with me going back to a guy who left me alone and pregnant in a jail cell for his crimes, never came back to explain things, I then happened to bump into, found out he was getting married, he decided to stay with HER until she tried to kill him and THEN he picked me? Yeah that would go over SO WELL with anybody that cares about me! (Um, no). That being said, he IS Bae so the waters are a bit more grey in this area because of that and it does have to be taken into consideration. Still from an Emma standpoint, after all of that I can’t see it happening.
So I really think that the character love is for Bae rather than Neal. We don’t really KNOW Neal except for the choices he made for Emma. We haven’t seen when Bae became Neal, or what his life was like in NY other than being engaged to Tamara and wearing a suit. We do know that he knew if Emma broke the curse, his father would remember who he was and come after him. He didn’t seem happy about the idea of Emma breaking the curse when he was talking to August in NY, and he had already given up on her forgiving him. Yet he told her in Manhattan that the reason he let her go was because he wanted her to find her family (which she couldn’t have *really* done unless she broke the curse). I think he’s as conflicted about everything as everyone else, especially since she gave her the option of lying to his dad and then never seeing him again (an option she tried to take).
As Snowing keeps reminding us, believing in EACH OTHER is a huge thing, and something that I really really love about CaptainSwan – she trusts him when she won’t trust her own parents belief in her, and he believes in her completely. Instead of trying to undermine her like everyone else does, he has faith that she will do whatever she sets out too and does whatever he can to make sure that she believes it too, along with HELPING her accomplish it. He doesn’t let anyone tell her to stay away from her except for her herself (it was a nice parallel with Charming/Hook to August/Neal).
JMO has said repeatedly that Emma is seeing that he’s being more SELFLESS than SELFISH – why I keep seeing the selfish argument I don’t know since she’s said he wasn’t…
It even appears from the sneak peeks that [spoiler]Hook is taking more of a backseat right now and focusing on the mission which is what will make Emma happy and get them home and the sooner those things happen, the sooner he is put out of his misery one way or the other. That doesn’t make him selfish for wanting to HELP HER and MAKE HER HAPPY. He’s proven already that he puts her happiness above his own. He’s given up everything to help her get her son back, even when they weren’t as close as they are now. The echo caves and telling them that Neal was alive proved that, since he admitted that all with the great fear of being rejected and that was THE WHOLE POINT.
We started off the season with the idea that second chances (I use the term second loosely) and outright saying that a fear of rejection was overpowering the belief in their love. They contrasted that by showing us a man who had a very good reason to fear rejection and he did it anyway out of love FOR HER not expecting anything in return. He’s only now sure he’s got a chance because she didn’t go back to Neal.
So I have lots of hope here. I don’t think Emma can get past some of those massive trust issues and walls will always be there to an extent with everyone she does have trust issues with. She’ll love them, care about them, not want to see them hurt in any way and they’ll be in her life, but Killian is someone she actually TRUSTS and is COMFORTABLE WITH and DRAWN TO who has ABSOLUTE FAITH AND BELIEF in her. How is that a bad thing, especially after everything she’s been put through her entire life?
We see all sides of the story but it’s what Emma sees that matters. Putting myself in her shoes, even without Hook in the picture right now, I don’t see her going back unless she feels so unlovable that it’s worth the pain and constant doubt. But she’s strong and getting stronger by the day. She’s got a man in her life now that is under no obligation in any way to care about her, and she’s getting her strength from him. She’s looking TO HIM for that strength, and what does Emma consider strength? LOVE.
She sees it but hasn’t accepted it for what it is yet. She’s heard it and it’s starting to dawn on her but she has so many walls and other things to focus on that she just can’t deal with it right now. It was fine to struggling processing a kiss in her spare time, when her past wasn’t staring her in the face all hurt at the thought of her moving on, but now they’re both acting like 5 year olds and she just can’t handle it, not when it jeopardizes the mission (and good for her!).
It’s so much easier to put somebody completely behind you when you don’t have to see how much you’re hurting them even though they did way more damage to you before. She does care about him and even though she already admitted a lot of her feelings, they’re gonna have to break down and talk and deal with these things and get her some more answers and some real closure before anything can happen with ANYONE for her and she knows that. It’s why she’s not shutting Hook down but hasn’t completely shut Neal down yet. She made a very good start of it and then he said he wouldn’t stop fighting for her and she doesn’t have time to deal with the can of worms saying it’s over entails. He’s gonna want answers or he’s just gonna say he’s gonna keep fighting for her until she makes a decision. (Again, going off where I think her head is).
She doesn’t want to string them along and she’s not cruel and she’s given Neal more than enough reason to not get his hopes up too high but they’ll still be there. She knows he’s not just gonna go away if she says it’s not gonna happen (which is basically what she’s already said) without him having a chance to try and explain himself which is going to take some time and be very emotional and now is just not the time.
The difference in this is with Hook – she doesn’t owe him a chance to explain himself. She could have gone off on him the moment he started talking about their future being a very real thing for him and repeated that it was just a kiss and that Neal’s back and whatever else she wanted to say. That he was comfort, that he was a friend and she only did it cause he practically dared her to, whatever whatever. The point being, she could much more easily shut him down. Yes his convictions that they have a real chance are strong but they are like that because she keeps giving him hope. She isn’t shutting him down and telling him it’s never gonna be him. She says she’s choosing Henry which means she ISN’T OUTRIGHT CHOOSING NEAL which gives him hope.
He says his real chance for her starts once they get Henry home safe and sound and she doesn’t balk at that. That would have been the perfect opportunity for some flirty banter that would have been misconstrued by certain sections of the fandom, and she didn’t even do THAT and tell him he was awfully confident for someone she only kissed and it didn’t mean anything to her or something along those lines.
The fact she hasn’t sat down and really dealt with the Neal situation isn’t surprising given what that’s going to take – a long emotional conversation that they just don’t have time for right now. That and the fact that at this moment, he’s accepting the idea that Henry may be the one good thing that came out of their time together.
But Hook? They get each other. They understand each other. She can always tell (as can we) when he gets serious and wants a real heart-to-heart talk about something getting down to the bottom of it. She could have sincerely shut him down by now with very little and convinced him it wasn’t going to happen and there was NO chance with or without Neal around…and she didn’t.
She leans in closer, she stares at his lips all the time. Emma Swan who has lived for about a decade on one-night-stands and therefore isn’t above a fling is freaking out about a KISS with this man that SHE started. If they wanted her to have a “comfort fling” it would have been totally in character for her and him FROM EARLY LAST SEASON if it was just a mutual mourning thing but that is NOT what they went with. They’re showing REAL FEELINGS developing for these two. Emma was freaked about the kiss before she knew Neal was alive. Hook has been shown over and over to have real feelings for her and that this isn’t some fling or conquest. They’ve been written this way FOR A REASON.
So I have absolute faith here. It’s gonna be bumpy seas for awhile maybe, but as many of us have said all along – they’ve been angling toward Hook’s redemption and his and Emma’s love story FROM THE BEGINNING. They’ve been comparing and contrasting their actions from the start. It’s not really a triangle, it’s an obstacle. It’s showing WHY she’s behaving the way toward him that she is and showing that she has to do what most of the other characters are doing right now which is to put their past behind them and allow themselves to move on. She didn’t have the perfect relationship with him before he “died” – it’s not remotely comparable to what anybody else has gone through when their love died. It’s going to be a HARDER JOURNEY for her because of this. Every time she thinks he’s out of her system he’s gonna be right there reminding her he wants her back.
I do like Neal sometimes, and I love Bae and I want him to be happy. I do. I just can’t in good faith say that she should go back to him just because he’s Bae and has had a rough life – they all have, including her. NEAL did things none of us would want done to any of our loved ones as I expressed above and that’s all she knows. She may get to know the Bae side along the way but that doesn’t make up for everything else. I don’t think he’ll ever make the same mistakes again but believe when I say those trust walls are hard to repair completely. I can see them happily interacting as old friends and co-parents for Henry but I don’t see her giving him her heart again unless she’s truly desperate which she isn’t. So even if Killian weren’t around I’d have a very hard time shipping them with all of that weighing down on me.
A discussion on tumblr yesterday that I thought was very apt given this season is the argument that your TRUE LOVE is the one who makes you the most you that you can be; the best version of yourself. For example: Cora was a toxic relationship for Rumple because it kept feeding the Dark One side, whereas Belle brings him back to the best version of himself; back to being Rumple. Milah didn’t bring the pirate captain back to being the best version of Hook either (he may still have gone by Killian Jones at that point but he was a pirate captain, not the Killian that we saw in Good Form), etc etc.
It’s one of the most important aspects of the CaptainSwan relationship – he sees in her who she is now which IS the best version of her (tough, strong independent, job on the right side of the law etc) and loves that and respects that about her. Likewise, she is helping him become Killian again which is obviously the best version of him, the side that even his beloved Milah couldn’t tap into.
And then we have NealFire – all season long he’s been trying to ditch anything to do with also being Bae. He likely started this process whenever he changed his name in the first place, but either way he’s trying to get away from that when most of the fandom can agree that the Bae side is the BEST VERSION OF HIM. Yet he keeps trying to bury it – why? Because he was hurt too many times as Baelfire. Totally understandable. But so have others been hurt too much as the best versions of themselves and fallen apart and changed their names and are just now starting to get back to who they really are.
It’s one of the things that I loved about the TinkerFire reunion whether they’re just friends or not, because he didn’t shrink back when she called him Bae. He even smiled and her reaction to him being Bae was beautiful! Sure he still felt the need to point out that people call him Neal now (and goodness knows he hates when Rumple calls him Bae at this point) but it gave me hope that maybe she’d be a good influence on him to bring that side back. I expect the same once he and Wendy are reunited as well. They’ll be good influences on bringing him back to the goodness and sweetness of Bae that sometimes shines through and sometimes doesn’t.
As Bae he was never a coward. He stood up to the Dark One for crying out loud. He sacrificed himself to the shadow and NL to try to keep the Darlings safe even though we know that he wanted to stay there with them and be a family. It wasn’t until somewhere in the middle that he stopped being that sweet, courageous boy and grew into the man who changed his name and started denying who he really was long before he met Emma. It didn’t change when he left Hook either – he continued sketching in his caves and surrounding himself with images of home so I think that he was still the same when he left. It’s those pesky in-between Bae/Neal years that are iffy but we know he stopped sketching.
Emma has never known him as Bae. She’s been learning all season that she didn’t, but the moment he brought Tamara to SB, he was letting her read Henry’s book and telling her everything. He opened up to someone who WASN’T EMMA about his past when he could easily have used that as an excuse to break things off with Tamara and played it off like he wasn’t choosing Emma over her. He could have said something about needing to stay where they were and there’s a lot of stuff she didn’t know about him and it just wasn’t gonna work out since he’s avoided magic and his past for as long as possible (and has been on the run, especially from his father, for a long time) and instead he brings her in and opens up about all of it so that she would know who he really was because it was important to him since he planned on marrying her. THESE ARE THINGS HE NEVER FULLY EXPLAINED TO EMMA, not when they were together, not even in Manhattan in the bar. He said very very little, but all of a sudden he brings Tamara to town and is telling her all about his past. But EMMA never knew all that stuff, whereas slowly but surely she’s getting close to Killian and bringing out the best in him.
It was an admirable thing to do for NealFire to open up like that to the woman he loved and planned to spend the rest of his life with. But he had a million easy outs there without worrying she might think he was crazy and he could have gotten himself out of that relationship and then after awhile pursued Emma. It was the fact that he went to SO MUCH EFFORT to let Tamara see who he really was, something he never did with Emma, that shows that he DID love her and wanted to do things the right way and REALLY KNOW EACH OTHER which is something he never intended to do with Emma – EVER. Everything with Emma has been coming from outside forces. Others appearing in her life and forcing her to find out about who he was and then him having to come clean. He didn’t have to invite Tamara to SB and tell her all about his past -he CHOSE to because he needed her to stay in his life because he loved her and wanted to marry her. Again, putting myself in Emma’s shoes I don’t see how any of that is a positive SF thing at all. In fact it’s downright hurtful, just as every remotely SF episode has been.
- Tallahassee – explained why Emma was hesitant to trust Hook (who she now trusts) because she was afraid he’d do the same things Neal did in her past; Neal/Emma compared directly to POSITIVE Hook/Emma moments and the only reason she left him was the fear of history repeating itself
- Manhattan – Neal/Emma compared directly to Rumple/Milah with almost exact same wording etc as shown in one of those lovely gifsets that someone posted here earlier. Down to the former relationship, and having a son, and it just not working right, and especially because ___ told them to the guy went off and did something that caused the breakdown of their relationship etc etc – other than Neal and Emma actually MEETING EACH OTHER AGAIN, it wasn’t really positive interaction at all, especially once again, Emma was left hurt and upset
- Nasty Habits – Emma is deeply wounded and finally goes off about how she feels because she never got the chance for real closure and that she still cares about him even though he hurt her (which is debilitating, trust me)
- Ariel – finding out that Neal is alive and going to rescue him, she visibly recoils when he calls her name, is terrified of her feelings, and when they are finally reunited, she looks miserable and tells him that her darkest secret is she wishes he were really dead so it would be easier for her to move on and that she can’t change the way she feels, she wants him in the past
None of these things are positive for them. After the initial cuteness of them in the past in Tallahassee before things fell apart, they both just end up being miserable. The hope just isn’t there like it is for Emma and Hook. So I’m not worried about any potential SF episodes, because so far they’ve been compared to CaptainSwan or Rumple/Milah and none of them have been really all that good for them. 3×12 is called New York City Serenade but Adam said it’s “#notwhatyouthink” so I’m waiting until we know more. Even if there IS a SF episode, I feel it way more likely that it’s about them getting CLOSURE and less about them reuniting. Especially since we keep getting images of Emma interacting with Hook instead!
I love that Charming finally called Mary Margaret “Snow” again. He’s David in either world (sometimes a little much like David Nolan…) but when it really came down to it, he needed to talk to SNOW – aka: the best version of herself. Being in NL is reminding them that while they’ve been through a lot in SB and have their cursed memories and are “both” at times, the best sides of themselves are still their true selves, their FTL selves. In fact it is the SB side of things that is giving Snow doubts about how to deal with her daughter, and Charming is making David Nolan-esque stupid choices instead of being the man she knows and loves who always believes in their love and that family means being together, no matter where that is. It was a conversation that may have started with David and MM, but it went back to their cores, to their best selves as Snow and Charming.
Looks like we’ll be getting some Emma/Snow talking about this in the latest sneak for this week’s episode! Sounds like Emma thinks Snow is giving up by separating them all again and agreeing to stay in NL with Charming. Emma even reiterates Snow’s line of family means being together – all of us so yay for Emma not giving up on finding a way to get Charming home with them! In this instance it’s like Emma has taken over Charming’s usual role – it’s not surprising for Snow to give up in these situations, she did it before Emma was even born but it was Charming’s faith that got her through it. Now they’ve both kinda given in to this is the way it has to be and Emma is taking over that role and saying there has to be another way. There’s always hope. This whole exchange reminds me so much of CaptainSwan it’s ridiculous. That utter faith and absolute belief he has in her. The fact that he is and has been THERE for her and the one time he was stupid enough to leave her behind he got back to her asap (like Charming at the town line coming back for Snow, knowing he hurt her badly when he was just David Nolan).
Hook is breaking down Emma’s walls by being there and being supportive and showing her that she has good reason to trust him because he’s not letting her down. It’s going to take awhile but she’s definitely starting to notice it more and more and she’s relying on him and drawing strength from him, just like Snow often does with Charming and Rumple with Belle. LOVE IS STRENGTH. Even when she could look to someone else, it’s HOOK’s opinion that means the most to her. She didn’t buy into Snow and Charming’s “infuriatingly optimistic” attitude on the ship, but is almost in awe when Hook tells her that he doesn’t doubt her for a second. Instead of fighting him on it she just asks if he really thinks that and looks up at him and SMILES.
On the love is strength thing – Hook is making her stronger by believing in her and being there for her and proving that his actions match his words, whereas Neal just being there is making her weaker – she’s literally falling apart at times. On occasion, she’s turned back into that 17 year old girl who remembers loving him but she isn’t that girl anymore. She’s turned her life around and he doesn’t know that Emma AT ALL. Hook believes in her completely and she relies on him for strength because of that, but still has her moments of weakness when she remembers what it felt like to lose Neal that first time, and again and again. Even in S1, MM didn’t want Emma to revert back to being the person she was before she came to SB. That she thought Emma was better than that. (SHE IS. But it’s easy to slip and feel like you’re that teenager again when you see someone you loved back then – totally human moments for Emma this season and I love it).
Emma HAS to fall apart occasionally to deal with her emotions. It’s the only way she will. She was already a little frazzled with the kiss but it was in a more positive way. Like he was breaking through her armor a little bit and it reminded me a lot of Gremma moments. Ever since then though she’s been falling apart and reverting back to teenage Emma when she deals with her emotions and that’s just not who she is now. That 17 year old inside of her needs those answers, but it’s the woman she is today that thrives on Hook staying by her side and supporting her and believing in her. Right now she has to focus on Henry because he’s the most important thing and otherwise she’ll just fall apart, but she still gets her STRENGTH from Hook the majority of the time. She has some inner strength but she’s not used to anybody believing in her except for Henry and Hook – those are the only people she accepts doing that. Snow has taken a step back on that list because while she was a trusted confidant as MM, she hasn’t been reading Emma as well since she went into full-on MommaSnow mode and has no idea how to deal with her daughter anymore. So literally Emma is getting her strength right now from being a mother fighting for her son, and from Hook. That’s deliberate.
Is it so bad to want Emma to actually smile and look back and have happy memories in a relationship? Or for anyone to? Hook actually makes her smile, as she makes him smile too. It’s so refreshing to see her HAPPY for once instead of dwelling on the past; on a version of herself that she hasn’t been in over a decade. A version of herself that she put behind her because she wasn’t as good or well-rounded of a person back then. She’s her best self NOW and Hook brings that out in her and says it’s ok to be that person and that he admires her for being who she is and that’s a GOOD THING.
I actually really enjoyed Neal finally getting to smile when Tink showed up! (And she finally smiled too!) Every couple should have present day moments when they can genuinely smile and believe in each other and above trust each other. I don’t want to watch a relationship where they’re both miserable all the time and can’t stop living in the past. It’s been great this season to see people really stepping up and starting to go back to the best versions of themselves that we know exist! (And seeing who brings them to that in the first place!) I really do want to see more of Bae in Neal. I’ll like him tons more if he goes back to that and Emma – Emma has never brought him back to that. She didn’t even know he liked to draw which was apparently a big thing for him as Bae because his mother liked to draw. That whole side of him was a non-thing when he was with Emma, but Tink knew him as Bae, as did Wendy, so I fully expect whether it’s friendly or romantic or whatever you want, that they will help return him to pieces of that side of himself. I see that as very telling. We know that Hook loved Milah with everything he had but she wasn’t enough to bring him back to the good Killian he used to be; same with Rumple being so hurt by Milah and then Cora that he didn’t think he was lovable enough by the time Belle came along.
They ALL have to go through horrible things but as it’s been said so many times it’s about going through them TOGETHER. Most of the quotes for CaptainSwan moments can be turned into something GOOD to reminisce on later, JUST LIKE SNOWING. (I swear the “does that surprise you?” is very much a “did you ever doubt that I would?”) but it also goes back to Snowing’s “I will always find you” which was a THREAT from Charming originally since they didn’t get along at first either and that was when even Snow didn’t believe in love *cough* Emma your Snow-ness is showing *cough*) but was turned into something beautiful for them later on.
So many things give me hope and I can’t wait for the next episode! There are so many parallels right now to Snowing but they’re still very much their own unique true love story and I love it! Just remember what Adam and Eddy said in the special and we’ll all be fine. They gave us lots of good reasons to hope in that, as well as through everything we’ve been seeing. We’ve come so far in a little over a year when some of us started on this ship and people thought we were nuts and now look at us! More interaction is a good thing and even a seemingly possible SF-heavy ep from time to time is good too as they NEED to get their closure and actually talk and therefore have scenes together (plus they’re family for Henry anyway in this twisted family tree so they need to get along).
I’m not worried. It just gets us one step closer to CaptainSwan! (I really really believe that Emma’s past is their obstacle and that takes human form in Neal since he’s around but it’s just that – an obstacle. His storyline has always really revolved around Rumple and Henry – those are the most important relationships for him to fix. He’s fixated on Emma right now and it’s totally understandable, but I think down the line, Neal wants what everyone wants: family – and that means reconnecting with Rumple to a point, and being a good dad to Henry and meeting Belle and taking care of the Darlings. He’s gonna be like Henry and have so much family he can barely handle it! And then he’ll find who he’s meant to be with vs who he thought he was meant to be with – just like Rumple found Belle!)
There are more pics out of Emma and Hook spending time together alone which seems to be happening a lot in future episodes! So excited but hate that the episodes are so far away cause it’s hard to theorize about it all then. I love Storybrooke etc, but I hate that so much gets out when they’re filming outside. We shouldn’t have any of this stuff yet! We were spoiled with the NL stuff not getting TOO spoiled I guess, but yay for the pictures of Emma usually being right alongside Hook! That means they’re at least on good terms and spending time together which is definitely a good thing! Beats wondering when they’ll share airspace next like last season, man was that rough!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I keep seeing all the iphone/ipad apps but having trouble finding the easiest way to do it on android. =/ Finally got a smartphone recently so figured I was just missing something since I haven’t dealt much with apps but there has to be an easier way!
Obisgirl I have that exact same problem! I really miss the preview option – doesn’t give me much time to fix anything and with the thread being over 100 pages it starts back at page 1 etc etc and then things get quoted before I’ve made sure all the coding worked much less no typos!
Excellent meta!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Is there a specific app I should use on my phone to vote or just go to the site there or what? I’ve mostly been doing it on the computer when I get a chance but keep hearing there’s a phone app and haven’t found it.
Thanks for all the wonderful graphics and calmness around here! I’ve seen so much awful stuff today that had me seething so I appreciate the calmness of it all right now! Sick of dealing with the ridiculousness so love seeing all the positive stuff on a day like today!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Try the [ spoiler] & [ /spoiler] tags hookian (no spaces within the brackets though). Works a lot better for spoilers. 🙂
I was having problems pulling up all the spoiler shots earlier so I may have missed it but I remember seeing Neal, Emma and Rumple around Wendy, and then all of them with various people together in another scene. I was referring specifically to the Wendy in a cage stills. Hook is definitely with Neal Rumple and Emma at some point so he could have been just out of frame in the shots that I saw and I would love it if they weren’t separated, but I can’t *right now* tell which pics are from what scenes and we see some with the whole group together and then some with Neal Emma Rumple and Wendy. Were there any shots that I missed that actually had Hook in the scene with Wendy?
There are so many parts to this that between the promo, the press release, and the stills I can’t decide who’s where doing what at this point!
They are all together at some point, different combinations are different places so it’s possible that they all go after Wendy and we’re just seeing a few, and then we definitely see Rumple, Neal, and Emma with Regina in the cave etc etc, so I’m curious about where Hook is the rest of the time which is why I suggested he might be off having a private conversation with Tink somewhere, even if it is just out of frame while we’re having the DarlingFire reunion or something. I’d prefer if the group is all together at this point, but it really seemed like only Neal Rumple and Emma were with Wendy in that scene. On the bright side, if they’re separated it doesn’t look like it will be for long!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Insider.com: How much room does all this emotional exposition leave for love in Emma’s life?
Jennifer: It was definitely a priority for the writers this year to bring men into her life. Interestingly, I think we can’t truly be in healthy relationships until we work out issues with our parents, so I think it’s fascinating that they’ve chosen the season where she begins to learn about her parents to also be the season where she opens herself up to love. But Emma definitely won’t be the pursuer. She’s a tough nut to crack, but there are men coming into her life who aggressively try to break through her armor.
This was actually from S2 but we know that the narrative shifted slightly partway through that (pretty much when they got Hook and Neverland and that whole story started off!) and that Colin breaking his leg threw a wrench in some of that too but the core character stuff for Emma remains the same and I found the wording interesting given some recent concerns so wanted to share!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Well apparently it did cut off when it tried to post earlier and then I just lost everything I had after that so I’ll skip all the rant stuff (I’m seeing so much hate right now toward Hook and so much about Hook lovers being future victims of evil men because he’s the kind that should be stayed away from it’s ridiculous right now – including from people who a week ago shipped him with Ariel. The wilds should be safe! Tumblr has TAGS! Why am I seeing this garbage? *sigh*)
Anyways…
I don’t mind the questions and I actually really enjoy them and have found this to be a delightful discussion today! Sorry I write so much! It was asked in a respectful way and I hope that we have helped you in some way with our answers!
Even CSers don’t always agree about everything and we ask each other but asking the specific questions is a great thing and I love seeing them! It makes you really think about stuff and wonder if there is a reason you see something a different way, or if there’s something you forgotten – or recently, if I’m being hypocritical which I totally understand why it looked that way!
Other than saying we love love love an episode, we tend to stick to random points about this that or the other and some things get lost in the cracks, especially if we didn’t interpret a moment the way that many others apparently did so it’s nice to get a fresh look at that.
I’ll be very curious to see where you fall on it in the future PoM! I know many are on the fence or go back and forth at times (I’ve often wondered until recently which way they were going with it and which thing they wanted me to root for vs what I do root for. I think many of us have those moments on both sides of whether we’re getting our hopes up or not!), but I look forward to having the whole half season to look at as a unit as that usually gives more perspective too.
We’re getting bits and pieces and filling in our own blanks as we go along (some I take offense to with Hook like all the things thrown around about him because he’s a pirate even though we haven’t seen it *grr* he’s not going around raping people!!!), but after we’ve had a chance to see it play out, we go back and watch and laugh at the ridiculous headcanons we had back then and what we were worried about, and see it with fresh eyes.
I’ll be so happy when Emma has actually made a choice and it’s done with so we can go back and look for the clues that it was there all along! (I firmly believe they set up both to have something to cling to until this rotten mess is done and clearly both ships are popular and have good merits to either, some of us just have a very specific preference), but based on what we know right now, I still firmly believe in CaptainSwan and am trying not to let it worry me too much. Some episodes seem pro-the other way at first glance and then I still find good stuff that makes me believe even more but I do look forward to it being done with and looking back and I trust the writers.
With regards to upcoming stuff:
Stills are out now. Not sure what to think yet: It looks like Rumple, Neal, and Emma go to get Wendy but I’m not sure where Snowing, Regina, Hook, and Tink are at the time. I thought from the press release that Tink and Neal would be going off somewhere but it looks like if the group is separated, Hook and Emma are apart again. =/ That being said…it could potentially be really good. Should be some interesting looks before they part ways for a bit, and what I’m really really hoping is that we get some Tink and Hook scenes! From Tink’s interview, the actress said that they were friends/former allies and she teased that Tink “may or may not” help CaptainSwan so I’d love it if we got them talking about stuff and Tink saying something like “You really love her, don’t you?” and having a nice friendly chat about that since she’s big on TL and she’s pretty intuitive and should recognize that something is bugging Hook.
I still think she had a thing for him back in the day and whatever she did to pursue him, if she did, was enough to cause him to blush, but he’s firmly with Emma and he didn’t give up his revenge for Tink so I love the idea that they’re friends and we might get to see him have someone to confide in about Emma! He certainly can’t talk to Snowing or Regina about it, and with Neal and Rumple out of earshot and Tink by his side, maybe he can express some of these things he’s been thinking/feeling that haven’t been brought out so that we know his fears officially and stuff? He needs someone to talk to! Plus I’d love it if Tink wants to be helpful to think and I think that will be the case. She seems to think people have to be together if they are meant to be so she’ll want to make sure they get that. (Thankfully she shouldn’t have any pixie dust on her to help prove anything cause I want Emma to choose – not Tink’s dust to do it for her, but I think it would be nice if she offered to help Hook with it someday and he turns her down because he needs Emma to choose him and it would hurt too much knowing she should have if she doesn’t or something.
*we may need to prove it somehow someday so that the other side believes in and it’s officially over and done with but not until Emma chooses unless it’s done really really well* (I don’t want Emma to make a choice based on something looking like it’s proof or not. I’m still not sure what a TLK would do between Emma and Neal even because it worked for Emma and Henry and we know that Emma and Neal do love each other but aren’t in love but you don’t have to be IN love to make TLK work – apparently – so I don’t want to test it out by any of those means).
Likewise I have issues with next week’s Henry’s heart thing. We don’t know if Product of TL automatically = heart can’t be taken and we also don’t know if Emma could WILLINGLY take her own heart out, but it looks like Pan wants Henry to offer to do that with his so is the fact that his heart *might* be removable with permission/doing it himself automatically mean he’s not the product of TL? I just don’t know! So I feel like until they do something that legitimately proves it with none of these pesky technical questions, it won’t be over for the fans even if it’s over on the show. So I really need Emma to make a choice, stick to it and make it crystal clear, and then probably at some point, have her share an actual TLK to break goodness knows what (or pixie dust or SOMETHING to prove once and for all because I don’t think the fandom is going to hold together otherwise).
I do think it’s interesting that we saw pixie dust be brought into the equation this year. I think that TLK *might* work for Emma/Neal because it’s a genuine love and we know it worked for Emma/Henry, but then Charming had to wait for Snow (wouldn’t Henry have been able to wake him up?) – so I’m not clear on the exact dynamics of that which puts an asterisk for me.
Same thing with heart-pulling as I specified a moment ago. So I’m just not sure, but we did get another method introduced to us within this arc with the pixie dust. Tink doesn’t have any right now but if anybody down the line questions it and she does have some? She could always help an old friend out and offer to prove it once and for all so that both characters and fans will have to accept whatever the outcome is (and I fully expect the outcome of pixie dust to = Emma’s choice. I don’t see them having her make this huge emotional decision and then be like, nope, you were wrong, you need to pay attention to this guy.)
The only caveat I see with pixie dust proof is she keeps saying soul mate and there’s a whole big debate about soul mate vs TL though I’d like to think that Killian is both for her since they’ve already been established as kindred spirits and he gets who she is today better than anyone (and vice versa). Basically I don’t see this triangle ever being over within the fandom until a suitable person shows up for the 3rd wheel so that their guy is happy too, whichever it is.
Either way there’s a lot more to go and I can’t wait for the next episode! One step closer to finishing the triangle so that we can just root for our couple in peace!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
