[MysteryKat25]

One last little thing to tag onto the end of that since I almost lost everything the first time so posted quickly.

The pressuring thing – I know it bugged a lot of people and if I felt like she was being pressured then I’d be bugged too. I can’t stand people telling what I should do or what I have to do over anything and if a guy wants to try and order me around – good lucky buddy.

That IS the kind of man that women should avoid. I totally get that argument. But one of the things that I love about Hook and Emma’s dynamic is that he can (sometimes seriously, sometimes playfully) ask for what he wants but he still lets her decide if that’s what she wants too.

Usually the innuendo/flirting gets him nothing but an eye roll and walking away. As I discussed heavily when the kiss scene happened, he scratched his ear (just like on the beanstalk) and then transitioned from a very serious moment with her genuinely thanking him (something he’s not used to) into a more playful “here’s what I’m hoping for but probably won’t get” moment that at least got her to smile again like she usually does when they banter even though he gets nothing more out of it than the smile. It’s his hiding spot – behind the facade when his feelings are getting to him.

But then we see how much that kiss affected him. In the cave, when he reveals his secret, he says “it’s what the kiss exposed” – that he really was doing this, that he was ready to move on from Milah and he didn’t realize that until he met Emma (and only just then PROCESSED that – the fact that he had already been acting like that was the case – for the most part – since he met her because he was already giving all of that up and hadn’t realized it until that kiss).

That’s why with the kiss moment, I love that Emma MADE IT CLEAR that she had already thanked him. That she didn’t feel AT ALL like she *needed* to do anything to prove her thanks to him. If somebody tried that with me and downright DEMANDED I owed him something for it, I would have been long gone and I expect the same is true of Emma. That is NOT OK. But she made it clear that not only did she already thank him and NOT feel like she owed him anything, but that she was ENJOYING that moment. It got her to SMILE and flirt and banter a little and yes, it ultimately got him what he wanted in that moment but what he never thought he’d actually GET.

He’s not pressuring her by making it obvious he wants her, and so much has happened since that kiss even that proves that he genuinely cares about her and wants her HEART, not just some fling. He genuinely has real feelings for her and puts her happiness above his own.

As long as it is consensual…what difference does it make? He can ask for something til he’s blue in the face but if Emma doesn’t want it, it’s not gonna happen. Even GRAHAM who everybody loves kissed Emma and she had to push him away, whereas Hook waited for her to WANT to kiss him (with a little prodding but again, she made it clear she didn’t feel like she owed him anything at all) and somehow he’s the bad guy?

We all have different tastes which is why triangles suck so much because there will always be someone who would LOVE to have that other guy because he would be so right for them. But this isn’t about what’s right for person A B or C. This is about what’s right for Emma and Emma…seems to LIKE his honesty and his attention and his eyes on her and knowing he’s right by her side and that he believes in her. These are things that she NEEDS and APPRECIATES. She doesn’t feel threatened or she’d do something about it. She even really liked Graham and WAS jealous over him but she pushed him away when he FORCED HER TO KISS HIM but Hook makes his interest obvious in her and the world ends even though Emma is SMILING and FLIRTING BACK and is oh, I don’t, the one who practically jumped him and when she ended the kiss, it was done.

So I stand by my argument – if Hook goes too far (which I don’t think he will) Emma would kick his butt. She is tough on her own. Now she has magic to fling people across the room if she wanted to. She has all the room in the world to take a step back, or push someone away, or make them stop doing what she doesn’t want (and in the case of Hook, he literally waits for her to meet him halfway, he just closes the gap – not to mention that he actually does what she asks him too *adorable little puppy face + as you wish*).

So if EMMA is not offended I refuse to be offended for her. She was disgusted with both men last night and have every reason to be! But she’s not shutting down Hook and I don’t think she ultimately will. I think she LIKES these qualities in him because it takes someone standing up and saying what he feels and backing all of that up with his actions to get through to someone like her.

I personally have massive trust issues. Like Emma, it would take a lot of words and actions matching up before I’m gonna trust them. I’d probably have backed up by now if anybody got in my personal space like but she leans CLOSER to him. If somebody made me think for a second I didn’t have a choice in something, you better believe I’d have shut him down in a heartbeat and stormed off. That I owed him something? Forget it. But the way that Hook and Emma work together, they understand each other and they *get it* – he understands that it’s going to take a lot to knock those walls down. To get her to believe he’s being genuine. He is literally meeting her halfway and waiting for her to close the gap which she has and I fully expect her to do so again.

I *hate* guys that are exactly like people have been describing Hook lately and on the surface I see why they jump to those conclusions and again, we all have our own filters and what’s right for you won’t be right for me etc etc. (I kinda love not being on the same side of 99% of triangles as my sister. It just means we’ll never fight over the same guy!) but to say that Hook IS one of those examples of the kind of guy no woman should ever want and how dare we put him with the savior on the show even if it makes  her happy is making me sick and that’s all I’ve seen everywhere today.

He is becoming more and more Killian and if it’s fine to fall in love with Rumple who has done goodness knows how many awful things including hold Belle captive, and we root for Regina who cursed everyone, massacred a town, and mentally abused her son into thinking he was crazy, then why not the man who lives by a code and wants to be the best version of himself too. This show is about hope right? There’s no point in redeeming Hook only to say here’s the example of the worst man in the world, ladies take note! (If they wanted to do that, he would have done whatever he had to for a fling with Emma and we wouldn’t see him falling in love with her, or the fact that she makes him want to be a better man and they certainly wouldn’t have proved any of that by showing us the caves or the genuine emotion on his face when she’s not looking).

He is not some fairy tale villain egomaniac with one thing on his mind. He didn’t say he wants to get into her pants (which, in a relationship, he will want to eventually and that’s a good thing if they’re gonna be, you know, in a relationship!!), but that he wants her HEART. He wants her to LOVE HIM as much as he loves her. This is something REAL for him.

He has a LOT of baggage to work through in his life but so does Emma. He’s kept his walls up for hundreds of years and is only just now letting someone else in, like with Emma and her decade+ of one-night-stands so nobody could hurt her. They are both broken but are fixing each other and building one another up to the best possible versions of themselves.

So to see someone who has been shown as a good man who is fighting to get back to that better version of himself (JUST LIKE RUMPLE), to say that someone who is insanely loyal, BELIEVES in the woman he loves completely, doesn’t mind being overridden even though he’s used to giving orders as a captain, respects the woman he loves enough for her to take charge and do things her way (he let both Milah and Emma deal with things the way they wanted to even though he would gladly fight to the death to defend them), the fact that he will always fight by her side and above that, to fight FOR HER HAPPINESS? Seriously sign me up. That’s not even including how incredibly good-looking he is, how much physical attraction/chemistry there is between them etc etc. It’s literally – he’s a good man who has been badly wounded and needs to be loved again just like…pretty much everybody else on this show, and that he and Emma are a good match and helping each other move forward from their tumultuous pasts.

I..can’t even begin to fathom why one side of a triangle is a saint and the other guy is the devil. At this point in the series given what we know and that’s it’s real, genuine emotion from him I just can’t anymore. I don’t get it. Some of us actually LOVE him and guys like him that are direct with how they’re feeling. Do they screw up sometimes or come off as a little pushy or obsessive? Sure they do! But that doesn’t mean that they can’t come back to reality when someone tells them to knock it off.

If he were all the things that people are accusing of him being right now (including things we haven’t even remotely seen like “because he’s a pirate he was clearing raping everyone” *screams*), there is no way in you know where that I would ever give a guy like that a chance. EVER. I wouldn’t dream of putting up with the nonsense. But Killian Jones? The toned down version that isn’t eye-roll worthy like he was at times in the beginning? The guy whose emotion you can hear in his voice when he lets you in? Absolutely.

Apparently my taste is extremely varied. I like nice guys too, but I also like the guy who’s been hurt and has his walls up but when you get to see the real them underneath it all, they just want to be loved like everyone else. Emma and Killian BOTH have walls up. They have baggage. They’re broken people. But that doesn’t mean he’s the worst guy ever and he’s certainly not on a path to be so. “Believe a pirate can be a hero” remember?

So I’ve had just about enough of seeing how “awful” he is absolutely everywhere today. I have issues with Neal and I haven’t always been kind to him but I still want him to find who he’s supposed to be with and think he’s deserving of love, regardless of the pain he caused Emma in the past (he had good intentions and let his fear get in the way etc etc, but it doesn’t mean he won’t get it right next time with someone else!). Rumple was hurt when Milah left even though they had a kid but he is CLEARLY so much better off with Belle and so many people root for them regardless of what he has done! (Including murder the woman who left him for another man). I feel that FOR EMMA, Hook is the better match, and that she can make up her own mind. She’s clearly not a dainty damsel in distress being led one way or another by the bad boy. That could have appealed to her (and probably did) in her one-night-stand days so that she wouldn’t get attached and thus hurt, but she has a kid now. She’s got Henry to think about. On top of that she now knows that fairy tales exist, she’s the product of true love, and watches what her parents have – she’s not gonna settle for less. Together, they “make quite the team” and Hook RESPECTS her for it. He takes orders from her and is by her side in everything! How is that a bad thing?

He’s not making choices for her but he puts his heart on the line and makes it known what he hopes for. He gives her options. He lets her know without a shadow of a doubt that she is loved and doesn’t wait years to make sure she knows it because he knows you can lose someone in the blink of an eye.  He believes in her and supports her and gives up whatever he can to help her even if it means he’ll get his heartbroken. Yep, worst guy ever award right here!

I’m to the point where I love both guys but FOR EMMA I just can’t root for anyone but Hook given everything we know and I firmly believe it’s going in that direction. I want Neal to be happy but I want for him what I want for Rumple – that even though his first love didn’t work out, that somebody BETTER SUITED FOR HIM is out there and will make him happy, and smile, and not be a constant reminder of the pain of the past. We’ve seen a lot of that this season about loving someone and losing them and moving forward and finding who you’re supposed to end up with and that’s pretty much what Emma’s secret boiled down to me: that she wanted the easy way out (Neal being dead) so that she could finally move on and it’s made more difficult by him standing there (especially being nice and apologetic and understanding – it’s totally easy to get lost in the good memories for a bit), but that ultimately she WANTS to put him behind her and move on.

That sometimes you can love someone without being IN love with them and that even though you’ll always care about one another it doesn’t mean that you’re meant to be together. It’s almost as annoying to me as the argument about Henry’s family/his happy ending because in that case, Emma, Neal, and Regina should all live together under one roof along with Snow, Charming, Rumple and Belle, because his family is NEVER going to be normal. He already has 2 moms and he’s been just fine with that. (Will he wants his parents together? Of course, but TL isn’t about what somebody else wants for you. It has to be about what you want and I believe that Henry – being the trust believer and big on TL from his book and his grandparents etc etc ultimately wants that for all his parents too.)

[MysteryKat25]

I think Hook really didn’t know that Neal didn’t know. As he told Emma, he thought Neal would have heard his secret in the cave which involved not only the kiss but his feelings about it. He probably thought Neal was playing stupid at first for not knowing what he was talking about but it changed partway through that conversation.

Hook seemed extremely hurt and grasping at straws for it to have meant something to Emma. He expected that if Neal HADN’T heard his secret (which was the first not knowing moment) then he expected Emma to have said something, if only to start their reunion with a clean slate (basically an “I kissed Hook when I thought you were dead but it didn’t mean anything” type moment – remember Hook didn’t hear what her secret was).

So when he got a blank stare from Neal about the kiss he practically joked out the words “our dalliance” like…she didn’t mention it? Was it not important at all? Surely she must have mentioned it. The tone in his voice in that moment was so painful to hear because he was so sure it meant something and then to have it just brushed aside like that made him feel like maybe it didn’t for a second. And then he realized that maybe if she didn’t tell him, that she may not have wanted a clean slate with him and they certainly hadn’t been acting like they were a couple (plus everything he knew from before – Emma’s been in love once a long time ago, she has a son, and now he knows that Neal is Henry’s father and likely the guy that caused her trust issues that she had back with him on the beanstalk). So he quickly went from “I think he knows” to “What do you mean you don’t know?” to “But it meant something, I’m sure of it” to “I have a chance here” all within that brief conversation with Neal.

When Hook gave his secret, he was pretty sure he was sending Emma to rescue her love and that his chances were gone. When he saw them interact afterwards (no kissing, walking away looking upset, hearing Neal say he’d fight for her etc) there may have been a brief moment when he thought he had a chance, but we don’t know for sure if he was just watching or what he heard if anything. They’re definitely not acting like a happily reunited couple, and because of how HE interacts with Emma – open and honest about stuff – he thought that if Neal hadn’t heard his secret, then Emma surely would have mentioned something like that to clear the air.

Hook was a little pushy with wanting to be part of the group going after the shadow. Neither guy (at this point) really loves the idea of leaving Emma alone with anyone and it did seem almost a little desperate (though I’m sure at the time Neal just thought he was 1) being helpful and 2) wanted to get away from the arguing Charmings which…who can blame him for not wanting to tag along with a ticked off Snow and her husband right then?)

Hook just wants his hat in the ring and he can’t talk to Emma about anything if he’s not around to say anything. Hook knows what it’s like to lose someone suddenly and without getting a chance to say what needs to be said. When he revealed his secret, Emma ALMOST responded to him. She raced toward him and reached for him and looked about to say something and then Snowing interrupted that moment by launching into their secrets, so that moment went away.

After Neal rejoined the group, he didn’t really know what to think. Again he may or may not have heard what Neal said to Emma but they didn’t look like this was some big happy reunion when they got out of the caves and he doubled-back either. So he’s confused. He’s spilled his heart and put all his cards on the table and hasn’t gotten a reaction from her yet. He cares about Neal but can’t help the way he feels about Emma too.

Apparently some time has passed between the caves and the splitting of the group (not much but Charming says that Snow hasn’t talked to him since the caves, since yesterday, so likely some time has passed with nothing super important for us to have witnessed for ourselves. That being said, Hook probably spent the rest of that day staying back, observing, and being genuinely hurt and torn because he cares about Emma and sees her not quite happy but he did what he did to help and to make her happy, he sees Neal who seems equally unhappy, and he doesn’t know WHERE he stands with Emma at all because he didn’t get a chance to go talk to her (and it would have been weird to go off alone the two of them right when Neal gets back) so he likely spent a whole night stewing on the sidelines wondering what is going on and what he should do.

We’ve seen him put Emma’s happiness before his own but the thing that supposedly would make her happy (based on everything he’s hearing from everyone one else) still has her looking sad, when right before that, when she was alone with him, she seemed happy. She kissed him – something they haven’t gotten to talk about or what it meant really, at least not in a one-sided way. He’s got all these emotions going and he is completely confused about what he should do, but ultimately wants to lay it all out there and see what happens.

So yes it was absolutely a quick let me step in here moment but Emma could easily have said that she’d like some time alone with Neal to work through things, or that it wasn’t necessary & Hook should go with Charming and Snow to talk to Tink since he knows her. These would have been painful for him because he might not understand if she was choosing or just working through something or just genuinely thought it more helpful of him to be elsewhere, but she accepted him coming along, as did Neal. Snow was the only one who voiced concerns about it.

We’ve seen a similar situation before where Charming stepped in to make sure that Emma was alright with Neal. It was in Gold’s shop when he first found out Emma was magical and Charming realized they were alone in a room and came in to get the ok from Emma to make sure she was alright and she said nodded she was ok so he let them be. Emma could very easily and for many reasons, not the least of which not wanting to deal with everything that’s happened with Hook lately, not to mention the awkwardness of being around both men right now – and this was before Neal knew ANYTHING which made it even more awkward – she went along with Hook joining them without question.

I totally see why it was a pushy move but it goes back to wanting to have the conversations before it’s too late. Time and time again, we’ve watched characters be extremely hurt because they never got the chance to say what should have been said and Hook, as much as he’s on point with the mission and being helpful most of the time, still takes those little moments of rest to be clear about his feelings. To show her that she’s cared about or that he believes in her (and sometimes both). She looks to him for reassurance, and he can’t do that if he’s not there.

There are so many ways to read different things and I think it comes down to our own personal tastes. Both men acted like children in this episode but I don’t think in that initial conversation with Hook that it meant it that way at all. He was trying to thank an old friend for forgiving him and being understanding of it and it backfired. He was hurt midway through that it hadn’t warranted a mention to begin with and that made him want to talk to Emma even more, but it was still a CaptainFire moment man-to-man and I don’t think he knew at all. The only comment I found in that conversation to be a dig was Neal’s “OUR son” moment. And then again later when he lashed out about Hook being sentimental (which he was touched by for 2.5 seconds) and then bit out that Emma didn’t need the reminder now, she has him and walked off.

Hook definitely had his moments this episode that could go either way for people – inviting himself along with them, standing in close and saying WHEN not IF and of course the ridiculous lighter moment for sure. But I don’t think he said anything but the truth to Emma about thinking she had mentioned it before and also thinking Neal had heard his secret where it was mentioned to (especially since Charming had a loud reaction! Yet only screaming names across the caves Echo apparently, go figure).

One more thing about the standing in close thing – I think it’s multiple things. Hook believes absolutely in Emma’s lying radar. One of the first interactions they had was begging her to look into his eyes to see he wasn’t lying. So when Hook needs her to see him, to believe in him as much as he believes in her, and needs her to understand what he’s saying, he moves in really close and she studies his eyes almost the entire time (when she’s not staring at his lips). He is moving closer in a way that begs for her to see him and how genuine he’s being. He believes that she will  know if he’s lying and he needs her to see that he means all of it. So when he moves in close, that’s definitely part of it.

It’s also something that has to happen if there’s going to be a relationship. Somebody has to move in close for a kiss to happen. Or a hug. Or anything really. You can talk from a distance all you want but at some point, somebody has to make a move. Even when he wanted the kiss, he moved in close and let her fill in the gap and make the move. There’s nothing wrong with trying to meet someone halfway as long as it’s consensual. He’s not wrapping her up in his arms and pinning her to him when he does this (and the only time he did that remotely was when SHE grabbed HIM but it was about the tripwire). He’s moving in close to see if she likes that and she doesn’t move back even though she’s got all the room in the world. She doesn’t feel boxed in by it and more importantly, she TRUSTS HIM not to do anything that will upset her.

We’ve seen guys get in close before (like Graham) and watch her shut them down or push them away and walk off. She’s even walked off from Hook before when he tried to bond with her. That’s why I trust her judgment and if she’s uncomfortable, I’m uncomfortable for her, but not until then.

I love seeing Hook make it obvious that he wants her. We’re seeing it’s genuine and he’s making her feel loved, something she probably doesn’t feel a lot of the time. It doesn’t help that, even with the best of intentions, pretty much everybody in her life has said they loved her and then abandoned her at some point. SHE abandoned Hook and Henry, and they both came back and have absolute faith in her and it’s hard for her to handle that. It took awhile to let Henry get to her completely. By 1×08 she wanted to be the hero that he wanted her to be but she still doubted herself. He was “kid” for a long time because it distanced him from her, even though she obviously DID care about him and stayed to try and be what he thought she was.

So it’s not going to happen overnight by any means, but she is spending a lot of condensed time with Hook in the jungle. It may have been less than a week since he came back for her and started trying to prove himself, but that’s 6 (I think) days of around the clock in tough situations and she’s been relying on him and sticking close by him and looking to HIM for an opinion on things. He’s been her biggest supporter out there too. It’s not like it’s 6 days of knowing someone well but only spending a couple hours with them here or there. It’s around the clock and absolute trust which she doesn’t have with any of the others. She’s still at odds with her parents and Regina. She’s closer maybe to understanding it all, but Hook is still the one that is proving to her that she was right all along to trust him, even though she was afraid to do so on the beanstalk. That he’s standing by his word and he really wouldn’t have abandoned her. He’s given up everything he holds dear to help her save her son, and shows that he actually gets HER while her parents are still somewhat clueless about a lot of things. (Hook recognized her as an orphan when they first met and has been reading her like an open book since then, but Snow – who was close to Emma as MM, and knows or should know a LOT about her, seems to have forgotten a lot of that when she went into panic mommy mode and doesn’t get her right now at all. She was way more observant as Mary Margaret the friend, than Snow the mother and that’s her arc this season – getting to know how to comfort her own daughter who she’s realizing is upset about things that she had no idea about, or reacting differently to situations than she expected).

I think the only thing that has thrown Hook off this whole time about Emma is that he let some doubt creep in when Pan told him about Neal. He knew that somebody in Emma’s past (likely her son’s father) gave her major trust issues at some point, that she was single now etc) but everyone kept telling him that Neal is the man that Emma loves (loves, not IN love with but the implication is still there when Pan tries to manipulate him) so he does the right thing even though he expects that he’s helping reunite Emma with Neal and he’ll be hurt in the process but it will make her happy at least. Only that doesn’t happen.

In reality, he’s been mourning Neal more than she has. He’s been trying to comfort her and keep his pain to a minimum, but he had the sword, he wanted to toast to him, he got very quiet a couple of times about spending enough time with Bae to miss him, knowing where his cave was, observing he got his sketching ability from his mom (also a painful moment for Hook because of Milah) and they never dig into that. Hook always turned the focus around to what does EMMA need? All the while he’s been in the process of finally letting go of the Milah stuff, and mourning Neal while Emma was feeling like a chapter of her life was finally shut and she was free.

So Neal is the ONLY thing throwing Hook off from reading Emma this well for a little bit and it’s likely because he cares about Neal too. If it were some random guy that hurt her that badly (which he can surmise based on what little he did know from before) he probably would have read him the riot act and mentioned the man unwilling to fight for what he wants quote or something. But he’s changed since we saw that happen with Rumple, and he believes that Neal will fight because he sees that Neal cares about Emma too. I think that’s why Hook almost got injured last episode because for once he took his eyes off of Emma only to have her almost hit in the head with a sword trying to help Neal. (Was so happy to see her say that Hook had it and gave it to her – yay for CaptainFire sentimentality & Hook being sentimental and Emma standing up for Hook and saying it was from something good that he did).

There are so many emotions and assumptions within this triangle right now it’s ridiculous. Each has things they think the other 2 are dealing with and most are wrong and I think it’s because, like with Emma’s superpower, emotions get in the way of things. Hook may have been super confident when he was alone with Emma and seeing how she reacts to him and focusing on all of that, but then seeing her with Neal may make him doubt again at times. He has so much invested in this that it will hurt him badly if she doesn’t choose him so for his own sanity, he has to think that she will and usually, when it comes to Emma, he’s right and everyone else saying how she feels is wrong. They’re kindred spirits. They understand each other, as Emma has pointed out before. But he doesn’t know everything about Emma’s relationship with Neal who is also someone he cares about too. So it’s majorly complicated.

I do think Hook is pretty good about knowing what Emma needs and when. He’s done everything he could to make sure she knew someone believed in her, and he’s done what he could to offer comfort when he thinks she’s hurting (even if it’s just sharing a drink or opening a coconut for her!), but right now HIS radar is a little wonky because he believes, off of everything that has happened between them, that it DOES mean something and that it IS real and it’s only a matter of time before she picks him. But that doesn’t mean he isn’t a little worried that she might not from time to time. So he wants to make sure he’s there to have the opportunity to make sure she knows he’s a good option too and that means being there.

It makes me think of Snowing’s argument in this episode. Snow didn’t care WHERE they were together as long as they WERE together. Love means being together to her. So Hook inviting himself (and not getting shut down when he could have) meant that he was there to get the chance to talk to Emma. At that moment, he thought Neal knew about everything but Hook hadn’t had a chance to talk to Emma to study how SHE feels about everything. There’s nothing worse than wondering if something was said, and then leaving them alone to go talk about it and make everything even worse without getting a chance to explain yourself and AT THAT TIME – he hadn’t had a chance to talk to Neal at all. He doesn’t know what Neal thinks about everything just that he reacted well when Hook volunteered to come along which he took as a GOOD sign of Neal not holding it over Hook’s head.

So I think Hook didn’t want to:

• Be alone with a fighting Snow & Charming
• Leave Emma alone with Neal to give him the upper hand but more importantly
• Make sure things were ok between all 3 of them instead of leaving Emma alone to take the blame for what Hook revealed in the cave

Hook really thought Neal knew that they kissed and that Hook obviously has feelings for her, and without getting to talk to Neal to make sure they were ok with things, and without getting to talk to Emma about everything that’s happened, he doesn’t know where he stands with anybody in that moment! (Man is CSF complicated with all the sub-relationships going on!) – Face time is very important when trying to sort things out. It means that in the middle of a mission, while they’re just walking or have some kind of quiet time, he’s at least THERE to have a chance to say what needs to be said or to get a feel for how things are going. It was Emma’s fault the men were left alone in the cave to have that conversation at all but I do think Hook had the best of intentions to start with. I think it made him happy to see Neal taking it so well because he does care about him and was trying to make sure the elephant in the room wasn’t going to be a problem; that they could be friends. He was hurt and taken aback when Neal had no idea what he was talking about and the switch flipped in the middle somewhere for him to have hope with regards to Emma again, but I really don’t think it started out that way at all.

Hook hasn’t had to play dirty and he’s chosen not to even when it would have greatly benefited him. Charming could have died and he wouldn’t be in the way telling Hook he’ll never get her but then Emma would lose someone she loves and he couldn’t have that. (It’s also way more rewarding to win someone over and prove them wrong than it is for them to just die, but in this particular case, he did it so that Emma wouldn’t lose someone she loves). He told Emma Neal was alive which could have killed his chances right then and there. I think he’ll continue to do that.

Hopefully BOTH men are more respectful in the future and keep their passive agressive petty squabbling to themselves. I totally get the hurt and felt sorry for Neal cause the tone in his voice every time he choked up and walked out was heart-wrenching, but I feel just as much for Killian who has put everything out there and is not getting reactions to any of it.

After the kiss, Emma walked off after saying it was a one-time thing and then said it was just a kiss right before he poured his heart out in the cave to help her get back to Neal, only to discover that it wasn’t the happiest of reunions he expected for her to be happy. He revealed his secret in the cave and she obviously STARTED to react to him and reached for him (which I think is very telling cause why reach for him if you’re just shutting him down?) but again, no time to process any of that TOGETHER and find out if they’re on the same page or not.

Hook tried again to find out if it meant anything to her and she changed it around to him being selfless meant something to her which is all well and good if he took it that way and not in a “Neal’s alive” kind of way, but for the most part, except when Neal is involved making him doubt a little, he reads present day Emma pretty well and knows her better than the others do for the most part. And his reading of her is the same as many of us have been saying, that she has to save Henry first but that someday she will choose him. That what they have DOES mean something and it is special and eventually she’ll realize that. He has to believe that or he’ll go crazy but it’s still her choice to make and until it’s made, there’s always going to be the confidence mixed with occasional doubt (such is the life of a shipper…even a fictional one tugging at our heartstrings!)

So I do think that both guys had their pushy/childish moments about it throughout the episode and if that was a dig at Neal then he more than lobbed it back by reminding Hook that Henry is Neal’s and Emma’s son, but that’s not how I took it. NEAL may have taken it that way, especially at first, but I don’t think Hook would do anything like that to try to hurt Neal. It hurts him that his rival is someone he cares about. It was so much easier when he hated Rumplestiltskin and he really was the enemy. He can’t change how he feels about Emma, and he doesn’t owe it to Neal to step aside unless it makes EMMA happy. I fully believe that if Emma asked him to and made a choice, then he would as long as he knew she was happy. But right now she clearly isn’t, so he knows that he has a chance and that maybe, just maybe, it’s not unrequited. So I don’t think he’s trying to hurt Neal or throw it out there that he and Emma might have a thing.

If anything that would have been better left for him to discover on his own. It’s been obvious for everyone else whether they say that or not. Regina did – she called Hook Emma’s boyfriend. Charming watches the way Hook watches Emma and he told Hook right off the bat that he’s not there out of nobility, he’s there for Emma. Snow…Snow keeps watching Emma and trying to figure her out but she definitely caught the looks when they were making the ropes. In fact, I think when Emma told Snow about the kiss, Snow almost had a knowing smile on her face (reminded me of when MM was so good at reading Emma about the Graham situation) but since Emma SAID it was just a kiss, MM immediately brushed it off and started pushing heavy on the have hope for Neal stuff. She’s admitted she doesn’t know how to handle her daughter and I think that was another moment of well she said….vs how is she acting.

In S1, Emma said something was nothing and MM leapt all over that saying that nothing with her was always something or they wouldn’t be talking about it. But the first thing does when Emma gets a moment alone with her mother after finding out that Neal is alive is talk about Hook? (She could easily have brought up the kiss and agreed with Snow about it bugging her because Neal might be upset about it – but she didn’t. When Snow shifted it to that part of the conversation, Emma got whiny and asked “Why?” when Snow told her to have hope about Neal. It sounded like a kid being asked to eat their vegetables and them pouting saying they don’t want to, why are you making me? So I took that as they were two separate things and Snow just didn’t understand it. She projected her own relationship stuff onto Emma in an attempt to connect to her daughter which she has struggled with, but we know now that Emma didn’t WANT to hope that Neal was alive and unlike what Hook thought, she wasn’t worried about false hope, she was worried he would be alive and she’d have to deal with it all again.

Gonna stop it here for now because the site made me panic when I checked to see if more messages were here or not – so happy I copied/pasted because usually I just lose the whole thing.

I really miss the preview button. It would be so much easier to not lose sight of more questions by the time I get around to posting but hope some of this helped!

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

Yay for pictures! (Thanks for adding them into the thread cause that site was being super slow for me, grr).

OK ABC – I TRIED to give you an out but you just make…no sense to me whatsoever.

It looks like all of them are going after Wendy! (Well.. we don’t see Charming, Snow, Regina, Tink, or Hook with them at Wendy’s cage so I’m not *entirely* sure but Emma is definitely with Neal and Rumple for this which is good.)

DARLINGFIRE REUNION – this makes me so happy!

So many feels in this episode, we’re going to explode. Anticipating major ones for Rumple/Neal, DarlingFire, and CaptainFire especially (remember: the last time *we know of* that Hook and Bae interacted in NL, Bae wanted to go home to his “real family: the Darlings” so it’ll be a little bittersweet for Hook too since Neal obviously is happy to see Wendy but at the same time he’ll be happy for him.

Like that Emma will be there for it all too – she needs to learn some stuff by seeing it rather than just hearing about it since they don’t give conversations tons of time when things have to be happening. It will be a sweet moment to watch Neal be reunited with someone who is very important to him and I fully expect the Darlings to be a part of Neal’s life when they get back to SB, so they’ll be a part of Emma’s too and of course Henry’s (he promised to rescue Wendy too!).

I’m curious to see how old they’ll say Wendy is. The tword is driving me bonkers since her brothers said she’s been held captive for over a century. I’m guessing the only reason the boys have aged so much is because Pan keeps sending them on missions elsewhere so they age when they’re out of NL. I want to know more about how they got to NL in the first place and how old Wendy actually is now (actress is 19 I think? but can play younger if needbe). I still thought we were supposed to see a more grown up Wendy but perhaps that was in experience and not age – poor thing has been through so much!

Definitely interested in what all is going on with the rest of the reunions too! Rumple/Hook should be interesting (no idea what the deal with the sword moment in the promos is about), but realllly looking forward to Neal and Rumple! So happy that Rumple tells them about Wendy for sure though. He probably has no idea that this girl actually means something to his son. DarlingFire reunion will be the ultimate though.

Seeing how they do the shadow stuff makes  it far less scary but I’m sure that will be made up for with the creepy voice!

So excited for this episode! It should give us nice parallels for Rumple/his dad, & Neal/Rumple as well as backstory on that box! Plus young Rumple (excellent casting!) and the aftermath of everything that’s been going on and finally learning what Pan’s up to.

This season has been amazing! (And it better be an amazing episode with an amazing preview cause the week after is AMA’s I think. =/)

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

I’m happy to hear your opinion oncemusicfan, I’m happy to hear everyone’s opinion on this little debate. For me this episode actually put me off CaptainSwan whereas before I was indecisive between CS and SF. I liked Hook’s character in episodes 1-4, 5 I didn’t really care for his backstory- that whole episode felt flat for me, episode 6 was better with Hook immediately revealing the information about Neal on the island. Season 2 I was generally anti-Hook because of the way he treated Belle and Rumple (My two favourite characters) but season 3 I was open to the possibility of CaptainSwan because Hook had almost kind of proven himself as a plausible love interest for Emma. However, this episode, it felt like he kind of went back to season 2 Hook and it wasn’t nice. Of course my opinion of Hook could change again next week but I didn’t like what I saw of him in 307. Thoughts?

I…really miss the preview button. :S

I think Hook was really kicking himself because Emma hadn’t shut him down earlier in the talk that I just discussed, but she was so disgusted (and rightly so) with their petty fight that almost got them all killed just now, that she lashed out (yay Emma!). Hook typically lets her cool off and then talks to her alone later on so I’m interested in seeing how things go with both guys in the aftermath of that moment. Henry is the priority and as Hook said, nothing can move forward with the triangle really until Henry is home safe and sound (and that was even before Emma chose Henry!)

I totally get the RumBelle stuff – I love them too and was devastated in the Crocodile when I realized Hook and Rumple would be at odds because I love them both. Also looking forward to seeing the changed Hook talk to Belle and apologize. He and Rumple were able to let it go, but we haven’t had a chance yet for him and Belle to chat. I was mad at him in that episode too for sure. I don’t excuse any of them for behavior like that. (I get frustrated when people act like Rumple is a saint,even toward Belle, but then can’t stand Hook, but I DO love both of them and want redemption and love for both men). So I don’t excuse the bad behavior at all and I look forward to everyone letting the past go with a lot of this stuff. It was encouraging to see Hook let Rumple on his ship and it was the first step in him letting go of the past which was nice to see.

Personally I feel like in this episode BOTH Hook and Neal backtracked a bit. As soon as they started acting like children it fell apart but I think they’ll snap out of it now. Neal was understandably hurt by what he learned, and Hook thought he had heard the secret so was trying to thank him for being so great about it and not holding it against him only for it to backfire. This caused the passive aggressiveness that Emma thought she handled when she found out what was going on. In fact in the lighter scene, Neal said that Hook was trying to impress Emma and that’s what Emma heard which is what led to the “You’re doing this now? Really?” when that scene played out more to me like, Emma’s chomping at the bit, you’re not making it work, can I try? He gets accused of being selfish (when he really hasn’t been this season), gets a 2 second chance to try followed by it being thrown in his face that it’s not as easy as it looks and then NEAL dives in to make a fight out of it which causes Hook to stoop to his level officially, putting them all in danger.

BOTH guys were disappointing to us and to Emma in that moment which is why she reacted the way she did so that they would knock it off and focus on Henry. I *hope* that’s the end of them being anything but wonderful and themselves from now on.

I really enjoyed Killian’s episode because we understood that there’s a lot more to his hatred of NL and that he’s lost so much too. It was a nice way to show why it’s so important that Emma doesn’t lose Charming. Originally we thought his comments were about Milah with the losing someone suddenly without having a chance to say goodbye, but it was Milah and Liam. It also showed that he was a good man who stuck to a code and that all these other things affected him (like Rumple being the Dark One or Regina losing Daniel) so I thought it was great we were finally seeing a good side of him that wasn’t the Captain Hook facade. It shows that that man is still in him and is starting to shine through but that it takes time. Also really helped cement the fact that Hook is the mask he hides behind but that Emma brings out the Killian side (looking forward to him calling him Killian and saying pirate as a term of endearment rather than one that hurts him!)

No redemption path is perfect – remember Regina was all over the place in S2 – but for the most part, while Hook has done some awful things he’s also tried to correct them as much as possible or do something to a lesser extent than was done to him. I’m very happy with the character growth from S2 though because he spent so much time on his revenge only to feel empty when he thought he got it and it made him realize that’s not who he wants to be anymore. Couple that with Emma getting to him, he started to become the man he used to be, the better version of himself again.

S3 he’s definitely stepped it up, albeit subtly for Emma since she hasn’t always noticed but she’s starting to. He definitely took a tiny step back last episode because of stooping to that level (boys will be boys *sigh*) but I think now more than ever he’s going to be back on track. They’ve shown us this season him starting to win over Charming (like Charming had to with the dwarves) and that Emma is starting to see him for who he really is and how much that means to him. So I have faith that once they stop with the petty 5 year old routine (which I genuinely hope is gone now and that they’re focused on Henry), that he will be impressive again.

No redemption is perfect or easy and it would be too easy if he just completed shed his Hook persona over night. He’s already toned down the things he says and the way he says them, and his voice changes when you know he’s emotional and serious. More and more of Killian is shining through but that doesn’t mean he just forgets all the bad stuff. Emma said his being a pirate was his strength to helping them and she’s learning that he’s so much more than that but it takes time. He HAS been truly helpful to her the entire time they’ve been out there though with literally the exception of the lighter incident which he can only take 1/2 the blame for, so as far as I’m concerned that’s a mark against both men (and both should have known better – especially Hook since he sorta knows where Emma’s head is right now moreso than Neal just because Neal didn’t know about some of the other things on Emma’s mind).

Hook is always mindful of Emma having feelings for Neal. He understands it. It why he gave her his sword. He knows what it feels like to lose your first love and how painful that is. It doesn’t change that he has feelings for her too, but he gets that there’s a connection there so she won’t be leaping into his arms anytime soon and he can’t expect another kiss. But it is telling that she was “feeling good” and able to take a little break (multiple times actually) when she was around Hook and let him comfort her in one way or another and relax a bit, and now that the triangle is in full swing she’s in a constant state of panic. She’s ALWAYS been worried about Henry and is absolutely the priority, but before this Hook was able to read exactly what she needed. He stood up for her when others accused her to screwing up or wanted to take the easy way out, and he has praised her every step of the way. He didn’t even mind her using magic to save them. He accepts her for who she is and makes sure that she knows that at all times.

The mission to save Henry isn’t exactly an ideal time for romance, especially for someone like Emma with trust issues. But love comes at the most inopportune times and in the most surprising ways. She was actually smiling and celebrating the little victories, and feeling comfortable and “good” when she kissed Hook. She had been smiling and flirty and that was definitely not a thank you kiss. But now that so much more information has been revealed to her and Neal’s back, she’s on emotion overload and she can only focus on Henry. She hasn’t been smiling. She’s been annoyed with this fiasco.

Neal being back she was glad he was alive but she was upset and sad and every time they’ve talked she hasn’t been happy about stuff. But in that conversation with Hook before everything fell apart with the lighter, she was SMILING again which makes Hook smile because he wants her to be happy (he put her happiness ahead of his when he told her about Neal – thinking that she’d get him back and they’d go off happy together and he’d lose her but at least she’d be happy). The only person I’ve seen make Neal smile was Tink.

So I definitely think that Hook took it hard that she lashed out at them. He realized they had been in danger because of their petty squabbling and while he made sure she knew they weren’t fighting over the stupid object that she was so offended they were fighting over (even though she must have known it was actually her), she put an end to it right there. Putting out notice that Henry is the most important thing and that nobody has a chance until Henry’s safe. End of story.

Neal took that well and I actually really appreciated that and then his comment later on. It was like a reverse of last week when he didn’t seem to be hearing what she said so it was nice, especially the one later on where it was a callback to everything she said to him before that he ignored at first.

Hook…was hurt because she was hurt. No longer was she smiling and appreciating his company, she was MAD at  him (and Neal but he doesn’t like her being mad at him). On top of that he screwed up and it jeopardized his chances which he is very very invested in. Hook tends to let her cool off for a bit and then talk. He knew she wasn’t having any of it right then and even when Neal caught up to her later she was just like “ugh what now” and not wanting to have any one-on-ones to deal with their feelings any more.

This episode reminded me a lot of how Hook lets Emma cool off and then goes to be whatever she needs. He witnessed the issues on the ship and let her have a bit of time before going downstairs to check on her. It was very similar with Snowing in this episode. Charming let her have a day of not talking to him and then was finally like “we have to talk. say SOMETHING” – Snow and Emma are very similar at times as well as Charming and Hook. They recognize that the girls need a little space to cool off a bit but then they also have to convince them to actually talk about their feelings too or they shut down completely.

It was reminiscent too of Heart of Darkness where Snow didn’t care about Charming’s words and he tried to break it with TLK and she shoved him away and it wasn’t until he took an arrow for her that she realized that maybe his words actually meant something and then she kissed him which brought all her memories back. They know when to push and when to take a step back and Hook wisely took a step back this time.

I’m really really interested in the aftermath of all this. I expect them to talk about everything at some point but there may not be a good time to do that anytime soon. Right now, Hook is focused on getting Henry because that means they can get out of NL (he has major reasons to hate it to begin with) and Emma will be happy because she’ll have Henry back and THEN he won’t have a chance until they’ve done that. He had to interrupt the Tink/Neal reunion because it wasn’t being focused on the mission and he was still upset that he was in the doghouse with Emma and the fact that Neal was too but was smiling and practically flirting with Tink instead of continuing on with the mission. (He could have easily let that continue and just watch Emma’s face and see what she thought of everything, but he put the mission above a chance for Emma and Neal to connect on something by interrupting the interesting exchange for TinkerFire – Neal was completely smiling and I was waiting for Tink to go hug him and then have a moment where we see Emma’s reaction to everything and there was none of it).

So I totally get not loving what he’s done this week. The path to redemption is definitely not smooth sailing (and neither is any path to love), and both men regressed this week a bit. I’m encouraged by the fact that Hook’s made great strides in S3 though and that ultimately, he’s shown that Emma’s happiness is important to him so that he’ll put her first and focus on the mission. I don’t expect him to stop feeling anything or stop letting her know that be it by his actions or words, but I fully expect it to be more actions for the time being. He’s put himself out there and now he’s got to follow through and prove it to her. I think she’ll be more likely to pay attention to it now though since it was made a big deal out of. She’ll be curious and paying attention to it. This is a woman who isn’t used to being put first, but Hook keeps surprising her by saving her dad, or telling them Neal was alive when he didn’t have to (and in fact, his path to Emma might have been shorter and she’d have never had reason to suspect anything was wrong but he’s making a point of doing all of this for her).

So hopefully next week will be much better for people who are on the fence. It’s a long bumpy ride and as someone who has been part of CaptainSwan from the beginning, it certainly hasn’t been easy and I imagine the case is the same for anyone who likes ANY couple on this show because they’ve all made mistakes – not one character is perfect. I can’t wait til I can watch the whole season together and see how far some of them have come. It would be unrealistic for Hook to suddenly become a saint so it doesn’t surprise me he slipped up in this episode a little bit with the petty fighting but I hope he improves for those who aren’t sure about him!

I’ve found with a lot of episodes, especially this season, the first time through I think on the surface it seemed like ___ came out looking better and almost starting to panic about whether they’ll go this way or that way, and I’ve learned the longer the season goes on that even a lot of the stuff that seems good for SF at first can also be seen as very good for CS when I go back and analyze so I’ve stopped panicking and am just enjoying the ride now. There are many many layers at play and the characters sometimes surprise us even when we think we know them.(It’s one of the reasons I react so badly to all the assumptions about Hook because he was a pirate even though we’ve NEVER seen him going around and raping women even though that gets thrown out ALL THE TIME as an argument against him. He’s a pirate with a code and he’s quite charming when he wants to be. If they haven’t shown us something that, I don’t believe it for a second. He may have been a bit of a womanizer BEFORE MILAH, we just don’t know, but he’s been loyal to her memory for centuries and I expect the same kind of loyalty for Emma as well (though with an improved sense of self, becoming the GOOD Killian again and not the pirate or Hook.) Killian isn’t perfect but we love him and I have faith he will continue to improve and be more than a viable option for Emma’s heart but the right one for her.

(That said I do genuinely want Neal to find someone he is meant to be with and better suited for. I found out a long time ago that my issues with him are just with regards to Emma but I love Bae and want him to be happy too!) The show has made a point that families are sometimes not the typical family, and that first love isn’t always true love so Emma is open either way. Personally I feel like they’re setting it up to be with Killian but he hasn’t won her over…YET. I hope that by the time Emma makes a choice, whoever it is that it 1) sticks – no flip-flopping, and 2) is made obvious that it’s right for her and explains why so that this stupid triangle  (which I’m not convinced is really a triangle except for the media hype and the shipper wars) is over once and for all, and then we see them working as a team and fighting against all odds like all the other core couples on this show.

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

I’m just interested in the CS shipper view of this, rather than trying to cause trouble. I’ve seen in this thread that it’s believed that a theme of CS is choice. How is Hook telling Emma that “WHEN he wins her heart” and “He WILL win it” giving Emma any semblance of choice in the matter?

I completely get why this bugs some people so I will try by best to answer your question!

Yes he is confident, just as confident in the fact that he will be her choice as he is in her ability to save Henry. But what he is telling her is that this silliness with him and Neal won’t end until she makes a choice because until that moment, neither is going to stop or give up hope. It’s a FACT that they won’t stop trying until she actually makes a CHOICE.

He is extremely confident that he WILL be her choice but he makes a point of saying that when she chooses him (which he believes she will) it won’t be because of him doing something underhanded like keeping information to himself that she just thanked him for not doing (she thanked him for risking his chance by telling them about Neal basically – appreciating the selflessness of that action), and that when she chooses him it will be because she wants to, not because of any manipulation.

Hook tests things by getting in close – it’s a dance to see if the person you’re interested in is interested at all. Most people back up from those they’re not comfortable with and sometimes even ones they are a bit, but Emma never backs away from him. It doesn’t bother her (at least in a bad way) that he’s that close, and she doesn’t shut him down or walk away in this moment like we’ve seen her do in the past. She wants to hear what he has to say.

There were many many opportunities after he said that line that she could have shut him down right then and there. She could have mocked his confidence with something like “what makes you so sure?” she could have told them both to knock it off right then, she could have told him it’s not going to happen, any of a number of things. But she didn’t. She didn’t seem to mind that conversation or his closeness at all.

I completely understand why some people get offended when he gets in close and makes grand statements like that but it’s also him taking his shot to make sure she knows he’s in this and means it when he says he wants a chance. Could it have been done better? Sure. Could the men have acted like grown ups this entire episode? Sure. Finding love and then having to fight for it on top of that is making them both act childish at times.

But pointing out the facts when she asks a question and saying that eventually she’ll have to CHOOSE (he specifically tells her SHE will have to choose), and then believing in that and showing he believes in that AS MUCH AS he believes in her which has been unwavering, shows her he means it.

If Emma doesn’t want the attention she’ll push someone away and we’ve even seen her do that to Hook before in the cave. If she doesn’t have a problem with it and his closeness, I’m not sure why we should be offended for her and many of us actually love the fact that he’s direct about it and lays it out like that. Because the guys won’t stop fighting for her until she makes a choice. It’s why later in the episode she tells them she chooses Henry because she can’t take the childishness anymore – they have a mission to do.

Hook told her in all of that that he totally gets that Henry comes first and that after that is when things really get started. She could have shut him down there AGAIN and instead of dealing with him/any potential chance he has (which she could have just said nope, not gonna happen and ended it), she marvels at his unwavering faith in her and focuses on that instead.

Confidence can be disconcerting to people and I totally see how that scene could have backfired to many who were on the fence / on the opposing side, but his confidence that he would eventually be her choice isn’t the worst thing ever. He didn’t say “choose right now” and he didn’t say “I’ll have you no matter what.” He also made a point of saying it was her HEART that he wanted. He wants it to MEAN SOMETHING like the kiss meant something to him. Without that, it is meaningless and it shows that he really does want her and not just some fling. It isn’t a contest to add a notch to the bedpost (and he’s been loyal to Milah’s memory for centuries). It’s about Emma and his faith that when everything is said and done, she will pick him and it will be because she wants to.

He was hurt when Emma doubted his good intentions when he said he chose to tell her about Neal because he considers him an old friend. It surprised her and he was hurt by that. It knocked him back into a corner which made him say that he won’t win her over in that way and he knows it. That playing underhanded like that isn’t what’s going to make her want to be with him. He’s been slowly winning her over all season by being more like Killian than Hook in most situations and he’s saying he’s going to continue that. It’s like what Rumple said about Belle – she makes him want to be the best version of himself and we’ve seen that with Hook mostly for S3 (BOTH guys reverted a little in this episode by being childish and reacting snappily and going about things the wrong way).

So I get the confusion but it is still a matter of choice. The captain is just…very confident. But the fact that he downright told her she would have to choose in order to stop all this nonsense is just that – a fact. It’s still her choice and if she were offended by his confidence she coulda knocked him back or said something about it being her choice not his but she didn’t react to that because he WAS saying it was her choice, and that he was confident she’d choose him.

Some see Hook as off-putting but Emma’s body-language suggests that she isn’t one of them. When he was completely in the Hook facade, she was rolling her eyes at him all the time and side-stepping him and his innuendos even though she wanted to trust him. Now he’s been proving himself and getting closer and closer to her and it’s still about her choice (like with the kiss – of course he was hoping for something but usually she rolls her eyes and walk away and she made it perfectly clear that she didn’t feel like she HAD to kiss him to thank him because she already had. He moved in close – somebody has to before a kiss might happen! – but then he waited and let HER decide whether to walk away or do something. He didn’t have her trapped. She’s tough & shuts things down when she doesn’t want to deal with it but she kissed him and that was no thank you kiss – and that was after flirting and smiling a bit).

So I do still consider choice a CS theme, absolutely. He’ll make his intentions known and get in close but he waits for her to do something. He lets it ultimately be her choice, and he said as much (just in a way that offends some people). At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what any of us think because it will be Emma’s choice and what she feels comfortable with and wants (and that’s basically what he said – common sense really, that if she picks him it’ll be because she wants him; he just was a bit more confident than “if” is all).

I find it really offensive what I’ve been seeing the last couple of days because suddenly so many people (I’ve seen a lot of this out in the wilds as RG calls it and it makes me sick) are sending such hate toward Hook for being open and honest with her and saying he’s being written as the worst kind of man that women should stay away from but his arc this year is “Believe a pirate can be a hero” and then bringing up the “hero’s journey” in the past with Charming asking if he’s ready to be a hero, and watching him genuinely learn to move on from Milah and Emma being his hope and continuing to do the non-selfish things. He’s completely devoted to her but will do basically whatever she asks of him, and it’s insulting as a woman to be told “you’re romanticizing him, you should stay away from guys like this” – yet watch the same people fawn over rumple (as an extreme example – I love him too!).

It’s just…extremely upsetting. We’re all more than entitled to our own personal tastes and some of us actually love that Hook is so open and honest and gets in close but doesn’t push things. He tells her what’s on his mind and waits for her to do something about which sometimes is to walk off and others is to kiss him. *Most* people love Han & Leia and he was way more pushy with their kiss but people cheer over that, yet Hook says something remotely confident or tells her outright what he wants instead of playing games and we should be offended on her behalf when he waits for her to make a move. I’m sick of it. Emma can take care of herself and she’s proven that time and time again. There’s no way she can’t handle a pirate who is literally a puppy dog when she asks him to do something. She’s walked away from him before but she stayed firmly in place and reacted to what she felt was important out of all that right now and didn’t seem the least bit like her choice had been made for her because it hasn’t (and she would have reacted badly and strongly if she felt like he wasn’t telling her she ultimately had a choice because that’s who she is).

She is a strong independent woman who from Season1 we’ve known is someone who doesn’t take nonsense like that. She is her own person and can make up her own mind. She stands up and puts people in their place when they’re bothering her and she didn’t react to any of that but focused on the fact that he had been SELFLESS when as she pointed out he easily could have kept the information to himself and tried to further his relationship with her before knowing Neal was alive but she appreciated that in him. After he said everything else, she latched on to his unwavering belief in her which is a huge deal for her.

She’s not a dainty little flower, she’s a tough woman. I fully trust that if somebody gets too close for comfort and starts making her feel like she doesn’t have a choice in a matter? She’s gonna push back and start a fight about it. Emma DOES NOT PUT UP with stuff like that. She pushes back. She wouldn’t have let him stand that closely if she had a problem with it. In fact it would have made MORE sense to keep some distance because of the triangle situation, instead of having Neal walk back into frame with them standing that close (which probably didn’t help for him at all).

She moves when she doesn’t want to be there. She shuts things down when she feels threatened and she is big big big on choice. Her entire life has basically been manipulated and only now is she getting to really choose how things go down. So based on her reactions to all of it and how many of us took it as well, he was extremely confident in saying that he believes it’s a when, not an if situation, but she didn’t even mock that. He still said it was her choice and why he believes that she will choose him and it will be because she wants him (which…again, common sense, I would hope she wants whoever she chooses!), but I didn’t find it offensive. His honesty is refreshing even if he is over confident and I probably would have said something to that affect had I been in her shoes.

He’s got a lot to lose in this situation and as we’ve seen this season with many storylines, NOT saying something is usually what keeps people apart. He’s making sure that she knows he’s in this and it’s real for him. He genuinely thought in the cave that he was leading her back to the man everyone said she loved and he’s seeing that there’s a crack in the door. That he might stand a chance and this is something that means a LOT to him. If he weren’t confident in himself? He’d blow it for sure. It’s hard to convince someone you’re right for them if you don’t believe it yourself. He’s making sure WITHOUT HESITATING that she knows how amazing she is and that he’s in this. He’s not waiting around to have something to regret. If he does lose her he’ll know that he did everything he could (within his code) to try to win her heart. He’s as big on good form as she is on choice so he’s saying things that she understands. Just like she knew what a big deal the Milah thing was, she acknowledges that good form is a thing for him and he’s not being selfish with this even though it clearly means something to him. He’s going to try to win her over and he thinks he can but it will be in the right way (which she appreciates).

Granted, when he does get overly confident, she USUALLY ends up flirting with him by bantering back and pointing that out (“wouldn’t you like to know?” “you couldn’t handle it” etc etc)  and last time she kissed him, so she probably went immediately to “change the subject. Focus on his belief that Henry will be saved.” mode because she doesn’t really want to deal with the feelings angle. But she definitely didn’t mind him being that close to her and she leans in when he gets close too, so I just can’t say I’m offended for her, nor that women everywhere should stay away from men who are unwavering loyal, believe fully in you, will do anything for you even if it hurts them / risks their chance with you, and makes sure that you know you’re loved/worthy of being loved/something special to them. It’s a lot better than hearing one thing and seeing another, and his actions back up his words which continues to impress her since that never happens for her which makes it harder for men who haven’t screwed up to get a chance in the first place (something I personally understand very well with the trust issue thing).

Was it the best way to do things ever? Probably not since it clearly had a negative affect on people who were on the fence. But we’ve seen how much this MEANS to Killian. How hurt he was when he didn’t warrant a mention. His secret (something that was proven true by the cave working) is how much she means to him – this is NOT a fling, he genuinely has feelings for her and it’s the first time he’s been able to let himself move on after Milah which is HUGE. So he’s telling her that he wants to win her HEART (aka: he needs it to mean something) and that he believes he will when she MAKES A CHOICE and she doesn’t argue with him about it at all. She studies his eyes the entire time. She accepts that he feels that way and is telling her he does and she knows that he’s right, the nonsense won’t be over until she makes a choice but that’s something she can’t focus on right now. So instead of bantering back or mocking him about any of it, she sees the conviction in his eyes (that his actions continue to match and pleasantly surprise her) and then she focuses on something else; namely his complete belief in her.

She needs to process a LOT of stuff. But if she wasn’t at least potentially interested, she would have shut it down already. Emma hates false hope and thanks to the cave, she knows how much this means to Hook. I don’t think she’d string him along if there wasn’t at least a chance she wanted him (and I think that once she lets go of her walls, she will realize that she does). She HATES this so if there were any chance to make it go away, she’d pretty much take it. Focusing on Henry only helps in the shortterm. She gets why Neal is fighting and there’s a lot of things that have to be sorted out there, but she could spare Hook (knowing how much it means to him thanks to the cave) and say she’s flattered but not interested and she hasn’t done that (and her actions/body language suggest otherwise to begin with).

I think what gets lost in reading the words sometimes is the body  language/visual cues. Emma was SMILING in that conversation (as was Hook). She wasn’t put off by it. She leans in close when he gets close, she doesn’t back away. She was only angry at him at first because she thought he must have done something to make Neal behave that way and after she asked why and got her answer, it became about them again. About the fact that he wanted it to mean something when they kissed (which she diverted to showing appreciation for his selflessness and that that was even more important than the kiss – which she hasn’t had time to process yet). After that, he took the chance to lay his feelings on the table because he was hurt that she even thought he wouldn’t try to win her over the right way. He is sick of being told he’s a pirate and therefore scum. He has a good. He believes in good form and he made a point of saying that. So to him, he does think they’ll end up together, but he wants it to be because she wants him and because he did things the way he should – in a way that continues to bring out the best in him and to help him be a better man; the man he used to be. Emma brings out the best in him and she hasn’t been paying too much attention to it but his actions are starting to be noticed by her and she’s appreciating them.

Would it have come across better if he said “If” absolutely – and as much as I love his conviction I kinda wish now that he had said it that way so that people wouldn’t read it as him taking away her choice because it is still hers and he acknowledges that. He’s just displaying as much confidence as he can because he can’t deal with imagining the heartbreak and if he’s not confident about it, why should she believe it either? But at the end of the day, it IS her choice and he’ll respect what she wants as he always does. He continues to put her happiness before his own and he thought he had lost her completely only to find out there still might be a chance so he’s going to take it.

All season Neal has said that he didn’t do what he should have which is tell her he loves her (which we haven’t heard yet now that he’s back with her). Mulan went to go tell Aurora and didn’t get to tell her because of other circumstances and walked away. Ariel was punished by Regina with the taking of her voice saying it was the worst kind of punishment, not being able to say that you love someone and getting a chance out of that. On top of that with the Ariel thing, she chose her friend over running off to Eric even though pretty sure they’re meant to be together. Hook did the same thing here – he chose to tell her his old friend was alive, knowing it might kill any chance he had of being with her, and instead she appreciates that about him and is seeing him in a different light, but that doesn’t mean he won’t end up with her.

So it’s refreshing to see someone who actually isn’t afraid to voice their feelings (even though in the quiet moments we see how much it pains Hook and how very important this is, he still makes a point of saying it because not saying it is worse). On the plus side he might have a chance with her and if he doesn’t then at least she knows that someone genuinely cares for her and behaves that way. In her past, she’s been promised the world only to have the rug yanked out from under her so of COURSE she doesn’t trust easily. (It’s one of my pet peeves when dealing with the opposite gender – words and actions need to back each other up. Don’t say what you think we want to hear and then behave in the opposite manner!)

For Emma, Neal said he loved her, they had their dream of Tallahassee – but when she got out of jail and spent 2 years there looking for him, he was gone. Then she discovers him in Manhattan and he’s engaged to someone else when he could have come looking for her to explain. Hook continues to back up his words with his actions and she’s starting, bit by bit, to notice that. He keeps making sure she knows that she is special and amazing and brilliant and someone worth fighting for which is a big deal for him since he hasn’t felt that way about anybody for ages and gave ALL of that up to help Emma find her son and believes that she will. He continues to believe in her (like Henry did in S1 especially). These are the two men that SHE abandoned: Hook and Henry, and both have unwavering faith in her to do what needs to be done. We just now heard Snow say how amazing and wonderful Emma turned out to be, when Hook has been saying that since the beanstalk. Not many people can override a captain’s plan and be 1) listened to immediately and 2) complimented for it. He RESPECTS her.

Yes he may have been a little heavy on the innuendos before and said some questionable things but she’s hit right back with him on occasion and smiles when doing so. That was the Hook FACADE/mask and she sees right through that now. He’s toned it way down because he genuinely cares and she’s getting to him. He’s no longer in “use your charm and flash a fake smile to get some girl to help you with your mission” mode. He’s been a pirate for a long time and it’s starting to wear off a bit finally. It MEANS something to him now. None of the flirting meant anything to him before but Emma has always gotten under her skin. His voice changes when it’s the real him vs the pirate facade. It was evident on the beanstalk for some of us, when things were a real moment vs him just being a pirate.

Emma didn’t care much for him in his facade moments. They showed us Emma and Snow rolling their eyes at him a lot for his stupid comments. It’s what he hid behind. It was his armor. But she’s getting to him as much as he’s getting to her. He *almost* broke through her walls on that beanstalk. She was so petrified that he’d double cross her that she left him up there because she “can’t take the chance I’m wrong about you” meaning that she DID believe he wouldn’t betray her (and he wouldn’t have) but because of HER walls and trust issues, she was too afraid to risk it because of what was on the line (Henry). This time around, she’s trusting him completely and looking to him for answers and sticking close to him, even when someone else should be asked about something. She’s seeing a lot more of Killian Jones than his Captain Hook mask and she’s thanking him for that/for letting her in, and he’s slowly but surely being let in with her as well.

But at the end of the day, it’s still HER CHOICE which is HUGE for someone whose whole life has been manipulated and the choices have been made for her with devastating consequences to her psyche.

• Snow and Charming sending her through a wardrobe so that she could save them all (forcing her into being the savior and away from her parents growing up)
• Pinocchio leaving her in the foster system while he ran off and had a good time
• Neal choosing to go to Canada without her because it would be too dangerous (she talked him out of it)
• Neal listening to Pinocchio to stay away from Emma leaving her in jail
• Neal not choosing to come back when he could have after the curse broke
• Neal choosing to move on with Tamara rather than fight to explain everything to Emma
• Apparently Pan orchestrating ALL of that so that the son of the Dark One and the product of true love meet and have Henry (waiting for more on how that all plays out but I can’t imagine Emma will be thrilled about that if it was in fact more orchestrated than them just happening to meet since she was VERY hurt at the idea in Manhattan)

There have so many HURTFUL times when others have made choices that greatly affect her life without consulting her. So with how tough she is and how bitter she is about things like that, choices that affected her own choices etc, I don’t see her being upset with the way that Hook worded that because if she had felt like he was choosing for her: she would have reacted. I firmly believe that based on everything we know about her. Choice is a big deal for her, and Hook may say he wants something (which isn’t a crime to tell her how amazing she is and that he has feelings for her!) but he ultimately lets her choose everytime. Just like he lets her override his plans, or when he’s said no to something and she asks him to do it, he does it anyway. So it IS a big theme for CS. Our captain may be confident that she will choose him and he said why, but the choice still has to be made which leaves the ball firmly in Emma’s corner and it IS a choice (and he called it as such).

Hope that answered the question!

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

Thanks TheGoldenKey! Means a lot especially from you since you usually find these elaborate connections I never even dreamed of even for stories I’m familiar with!

I’m usually so far behind on all these connections and I know many are confused/disappointed about the name so I looked into it and there were just too many coincidences for it not to be important somehow (especially given some of the potential routes we’re now thinking they’re going). It’s such an odd little story but it’s nice when they make connections like that and make it mean something. (Plus it makes us look into the original stories deeper and find all of them which is cool too!)

I totally understand wanting a name like Adam (I was expecting it too since he’s Beast but since I really can’t imagine Belle calling him anything other than Rumple I don’t think it matters much) and really…Rumplestiltskin is what he is. He assumed the typical role in various other stories INCLUDING B&tB, Peter Pan, and even Cinderella, but he is still Rumplestiltskin and Belle has always called him Rumple so it’s fine the more I think of it that way. Belle never fell in love with someone called Beast. He was always her Rumple.

So it makes sense that they’re using the long-kept-secret first name of Mr. Gold (if they’re still going that route) for his father’s name and giving us his backstory. It doesn’t MATTER what the Storybrooke cursed name is at this point because while they are both, they are still mostly the FTL part of their character deep down (but have SB memories sprinkled in which changes who they would have been somewhat but not at their core), and so it makes sense that the name connects to whoever they’re making HIM connect to – in this case, as long thought, it’s in connection to the story of Peter Pan which is why we’re finding out about it now.

It’s looking more and more likely that Malcolm and Pan are connected and possibly one in the same. I’m still very curious as to why that might be and to see how it plays out. We need his motivations for doing such a strange thing and we need to find out what Rumple knows etc. But there are a LOT of coincidences in that strange little excerpt from one of Barrie’s Peter Pan stories for them not to have taken it from there to relate Rumple to Pan in some way. The more I think about it the more excited about it I am (still not a huge fan of the name but once it makes sense with connections then it becomes vastly more appealing!)

 

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

I’m thoroughly confused now.

I think what was meant was that they were tired of having the “pirate thing” thrown in his face repeatedly because he’s so much more than that! Charming has (I think) gotten past it and I really don’t think Emma meant it in a bad way, just saying that there is that pirate reputation but she almost had a small smile on her face and then it fell apart because once again, someone was saying he was a pirate and it hurt him. I look forward to the day when it’s more a term of endearment!

It was definitely not a get rid of Hook comment! Not by a long shot. I love the captain and hope he always retains some of that side too (and I think he will for sure). Just remember: when Emma was spelling out everybody’s strengths at the beginning of the season she included hero and villain…and pirate (which not only singled him out but also listed him as important and vital to the mission!) The thing that was quoted was merely showing how painful it must be for Hook to be told he’s not good enough for Emma because he’s a pirate, especially when it comes from Charming who was once put down for being a shepherd and he still got Snow who was a princess.

Hook definitely has a huge following and well-deserved at that. Colin is incredible and never ceases to amaze me at the depths of emotion he conveys!

Sorry if I completely misunderstood the reaction to that quote but I was very confused! We love Hook! (And Killian <3)

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

I was a little underwhelmed with the name Malcolm as well, until I found this:

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMHQW4_St_Govors_Well_Kensington_Gardens_London_UK

Basically there’s a well from “Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens” and the story features someone named Malcolm the Bold. Here’s the excerpt off that page but there might have been something I missed as well!

Next comes St. Govor’s Well, which was full of water when Malcolm the Bold fell into it. He was his mother’s favourite, and he let her put her arm round his neck in public because she was a widow; but he was also partial to adventures, and liked to play with a chimney-sweep who had killed a good many bears. The sweep’s name was Sooty, and one day, when they were playing near the well, Malcolm fell in and would have been drowned had not Sooty dived in and rescued him; and the water had washed Sooty clean, and he now stood revealed as Malcolm’s long-lost father. So Malcolm would not let his mother put her arm round his neck any more.

It’s…very strange but at least it does connect to Pan in some way shape or form?

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

I will never cease to be amazed that people read my long ridiculous posts! Thank you!

In answer to one of your questions, I think that Hook didn’t really think he had a chance with Emma when he revealed his secret but since then a couple of things have happened:

1. Hook heard Neal say that he’d fight for Emma which means…they’re not together (also there was just a hug, no kisses or grand declarations and no hanging around each other afterwards – Emma looked uncomfortable, they both looked sad, and Neal walked off – not exactly a big lovely reunion and we know Hook witnessed this)
2. Hook’s conversation with Neal – he thought that Neal heard him basically reveal that he’s in love with Emma so he was thanking him for not freaking out about that/the kiss (which he also mentioned as part of the secret) only to find out that Emma hadn’t mentioned it at all! – Initially he is very hurt by this (the pain in his voice *sobs*) but then it’s like a little lightswitch goes on, where he suddenly realizes that she wasn’t trying to get a clean slate with Neal. She could easily have said she kissed Hook but it didn’t mean anything and please don’t hold it against me because I thought you were dead, but she didn’t feel the need to.

This last point is shown again later when she asks Hook why Neal’s acting like that and he tells her he thought Neal heard him say they kissed and she got upset as to why he might think she had bothered to tell him. I really think that he knows her well enough to know that had she wanted to dive back into something with Neal, she WOULD have told him and the fact that she didn’t, again that she wasn’t trying for a clean slate ON TOP OF the fact that it didn’t look like a happy reunion to begin with, gave him reason to hope.

And now that he does have hope, he’s in this completely. He’s got a shot and he’s not going to step aside until EMMA tells him to. Just like it didn’t matter what Charming had to say about it. Hook’s right – until Emma makes a CHOICE – and she will eventually have to – both guys are gonna fight for her.

Hook did kinda push himself in a little bit and join them on shadow duty (turns out she didn’t really need either one of them but still, probably best not to wander around alone), and of course it was because he doesn’t want Neal left alone with her! He doesn’t want to give up a chance to continue proving to her that he’s right for her!

Neal had no reason to suspect anything at that point cause his old friend had a point (surprised he didn’t pick up on the hastiness of him joining them but he may have thought maybe he just doesn’t want to get stuck with Snow and Charming who were clearly fighting right then or something) and Hook had a point about it not hurting to have more than one person there that has experience to help.

It was surprising we didn’t get any “what are you doing back in NL” moments but the revelation about Emma kinda took the majority of screentime for this episode, so we were left with very few NICE CaptainFire moments to work with. It was nice for Neal to tell Hook thanks for offering to help at the beginning and like I said earlier, he’s not behaving toward him like he did when Rumple came back into his life so I have hope (I have hope for Rumple & Neal too but they have farther to go).

I think at some point we’ll get just the two of them working together on something. No idea what given what we know right now, but I feel like if they can focus and work together to help Emma or save Henry or deal with goodness knows what after all of that mess, then they’ll get around to mending those fences.

I’d like to think both guys ultimately want Emma to be happy, and they do care about each other, so while it will be excruciating for one of them, the other will ultimately both understand and still be a part of the others’ life as well as Henry’s. So I do think we’ll eventually get that conversation of “You came here for Emma, didn’t you?” kind of moment from Neal to Hook.

They need it, desperately. Neal reacted badly after a momentary good moment of realizing that Hook was 1) sentimental and 2) cared about him enough to have his sword to give to Emma thinking she needed it in memory of Neal. I think it touched him for about 2.5 seconds and then he lashed out about it because he went back to fight mode and he doesn’t know what to think because they have trust issues between them from the past too (which again, we need way more info on to see how they really left things in NL vs what we know right now).

I would love love love for them to talk by themselves like Hook and Charming did and have Neal come to the realization that they’re in this for the same thing and they need to work together so that they can accomplish this and get everyone they care about safe. Hook has never questioned whether Neal cared about Emma, even realizing that he must be the guy that made Emma the broken woman he met in the EF, since he’s Henry’s father and Emma was deeply wounded by a past love and is clearly on her own now. He, like CSers, has never questioned that or pretended it didn’t exist.

When he met Emma, Neal was not in the picture and he didn’t know who that was. He didn’t know through all of their interaction until literally after he thought Neal was dead. Then it was a shared bond between him and Emma but not something to stop him from having feelings for her because he had them before he knew they shared a past, and after he was gone what difference did it make because it doesn’t change anything.

Now he’s in this completely and Neal pops back up and it hurts him because he does care about him a great deal and it makes this entire situation completely awkward. As far as I’m concerned, other than a few massive apologies here and there, nobody owes anybody anything. They are all adults and entitled to love whomever they love. I do believe CSF can repair themselves and I look forward to watching that happen way more than dealing with the stupid non-triangle. I don’t consider it character growth for any character to back away from what they want because they feel like they owe somebody else something. Just no. They owe it to themselves to say what they feel and what they want and are more than entitled to hope that they get that said in return but nobody owes it to them to feel the same way they do.

Hook is making it very clear that he genuinely loves Emma and will continue to do the things that he’s been doing that prove that every step of the way. Nobody is perfect. They all slip up now and then and Hook is no exception. This is new for him too since he never thought he’d love again. This is a broken man who was basically willing to die if that meant revenge on the man who killed Milah, and finally now has something to fight for; to live for. He’s becoming the best version of himself again after years in the depths of despair and that’s thanks to Emma.

Until that’s acknowledged between Hook and Neal, I don’t know where we go from here. Neal needs to see that this isn’t just some competition to Hook, that he genuinely DOES and CAN care about somebody. Bae thought he only cared about himself and his revenge and it’s likely Neal has the same fears. Like maybe Hook is playing some game and Emma will get hurt just like he did, only he doesn’t realize that Hook genuinely loves him and wanted him to stay so that they could be a family and he was wounded when he left. It’s taken SO LONG for Hook to come around to that mentality again and he’s changed because of Emma.

I want Neal to have a similar moment with Hook/Emma that he had with Rumple awhile back after hearing his phone conversation with Belle. Seeing that side that can care and wants to be good. He’s doubting it right now because of Pan and the prophecy and sadly Rumple couldn’t prove anything to Neal because he tried to do the right thing and send the dagger away so Pan couldn’t control him, but he has genuinely changed for the better and Belle brings out the best in him. So I need Neal to see that Hook is a changed man as well, and that Emma has managed to bring out the best in him too.

It goes both ways, and Neal needs to see that Hook cares about HIM too and that he’s not just some random guy that Hook wants to walk all over. It’s not about that. But not standing up and saying you have feelings for someone and hiding it is just as bad. Walking away is the same as making the choice for them and that’s not fair to them. What do people want Hook to do? STOP FEELING something for Emma and just walk away so that Neal can be with her all the time so that she thinks Hook doesn’t care about her anymore and therefore she might as well choose Neal cause at least he wants her? No!

Both men have behaved badly but Hook should only back off when EMMA wants him to. He thought they were going off to some grand reunion and it didn’t happen. He thought Neal was being extremely kind considering everything only to find out that they obviously weren’t back together and he didn’t even know about Hook and Emma. Of course he thinks he’s got a chance now! Why should he walk away and deny his feelings and essentially choose FOR Emma? Taking away an option is almost as bad as forcing an outcome.

Hook was very very clear in his statement (which admittedly was made in very close quarters but she never bothered to walk away from it like she does with everyone else either so if it doesn’t bother HER it shouldn’t bother US). He will win her, with no trickery, and when he does it will be because she wants him. HER CHOICE, choosing for the RIGHT REASONS, and that in choosing him, it’s because she WANTS TO. Therefore he’s so horrible for her a;slkjdfd;lsak. Seriously? Saying you’re interested is not a crime. Plus he completely believes in her and she goes to him for reassurance. He is her source of strength, even when she’s angry with him at times (and I don’t care what he said in 3×01, he totally fancies her when she’s angry too – he likes feisty women that can fight for THEMSELVES!) Plus it’s adorable that he thinks she’s cute even when she’s angry with him.

It was appropriate that happened in this episode too because we also saw a mini-fight/make-up for Snowing as well, talking about believing in each other and Snow needing Charming to believe in her and watching Hook tell Emma how much he believes in her.

PS: How awesome was it to hear Charming call her Snow for once? It’s about time!

So many incredible CS moments in this episode! I swear the season just gets better and better!

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

Hey Kat about magic being a problem for Neal’s relationship with Emma don’t you think if it was him and Tink that same problem would be there too?

Yep – think I addressed that in the long thing I just wrote but wanted to make sure I definitely addressed this so I’ll try to make it brief.

I think it will be an issue for them if she doesn’t choose him over magic. I think Tink WILL want to prove something to Blue, and might want her wings back and that would negate it since he hates magic and I don’t think fairies can keep their wings if they choose love anyway.

BUT if she were to either prove herself to Blue and then REFUSE her wings, or get them back but eventually choose love over keeping her wings, THAT could be something beautiful. She’s lived without them for a long time and is bitter because she was so sure (and was right) that Regina and Robin were meant to be, but she’ll feel vindicated after she proves that.

She’s big on soul mates and the way they lit up seeing each other, it gave me hope that maybe her path would start in one direction and end in another. I’d love to see her prove to Blue that she was right all along but I also realllly like the appeal of a magical being giving it all up for love, ESPECIALLY for a guy whose father chose magic over him. It would be a HUGE deal for him. (And it was really really nice to see that genuine adorable smile on his face)

So I could see it going either way. There’s definitely potential for it though and I look forward to seeing if it ends up just being good friends (he needs somebody on his side that hasn’t done something awful to him) and maybe just maybe something more.

We saw the idea of a fairy and someone else with Grumpy and Nova, and she would have had to give up her wings to be with him and didn’t. So the idea of someone who has fought to get her wings back, only to have TL win out and refuse them / give them up / find out they’re not as important as they thought and they’re ok being who they are without them…would be a compelling story and Tink is just rebellious enough to do it.

I promise I don’t ship just to get rid of him! I’ve liked many an idea that didn’t work out for him but I do want him to be happy. I just don’t see how, with that much baggage, Neal and Emma could ever be completely happy and trusting and all smiles and not have this unspoken wall between them somehow (as anything other than friends/co-parents), so I want Neal to find his happiness elsewhere with someone who IS right for him, which, out of the people we know *right now* there aren’t many options.

Similar to Regina last season where we didn’t know anything about Robin Hood being her match! So there could very easily be someone else out there for him we just haven’t met yet (perhaps he needs to get over Emma before he’s even introduced to whoever it is!) but for right now, I’m really enjoying the TinkerFire interaction, anxious to know their backstory, and am at least enjoying the headcanon of:

1. Sticking it to Blue for being wrong about her
2. A magical creature that puts true love above all and gives up her wings

We didn’t get to see it for Nova and Grumpy which is why he stayed with them and became Grumpy in the first place. But the precedence is there that a fairy *could* give up her wings for love so I feel like we should see that eventually and if so, why not Tink? (Especially since she’s lived without them for quite some time now and is big on soul mates).

I just think it at least has  potential but I definitely didn’t mean to imply that Neal shouldn’t be with Emma because she has magic so let’s throw him with an even more magical being. In both cases that I’ve shipped him remotely with a magical person, it has ALWAYS had the caveat of: this person is giving up magic and he’ll be a good influence on them to do that/reason for them to do that (with the added bonus of Tink getting to stick it to Blue if she earns her wings back and just feels vindicated now but doesn’t want to be a fairy anymore – she’s rebellious and big on soul mates, I could see it happening).

This show is just too darn shippable! I’m glad we’re finally getting some definitive answers this season on couples but it’s not fast enough to stop a gazillion ships from starting! I’ll be happy when we finally find the right ones for everyone, but for now we can but guess and my current pick for Neal is a wingless Tink.

 

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

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