Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
MysteryKat25Participant
I’ve been thinking about the way this was worded again. It mentions we’ll get more of Snowing AND we’ll get more of BanditSnow but that doesn’t mean they’d have to be together does it?
We just had a Snowing episode with 3×02 so it seems we’re we’d be getting another one super soon (though I was also confused as to why Rumple’s dad would be in 3×08 and 3×11 as well so close together, especially having a Rumple episode 3×04 so what do I know?
I think we’ll definitely get Bandit Snow in 3×06 and then Snowing…whenever it really relates to what’s going on. I don’t think they’ll wrap up the SaveCharming thing til closer to the end of the NL eps. I see it lasting more than just a couple and we just had Snowing. Maybe by 3×09 or something?
Also when are we getting Emma backstory?? I thought we were supposed to learn more about her time as a bail bondsperson in the first half but it seems like we’re full til at least 3×08 but with Rumple’s dad showing up, I imagine that would be at least 3×09…
Basically I’m confused but I think the two teases are separate and that BanditSnow will have history with Ariel and then the Snowing thing will be a different section of the timeline. Maybe. Just a thought.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI don’t know how they do these things but my Oct 18th EW was in my mailbox 2 days ago (No idea how long it was sitting there….) and there was not a drop of OUAT in at all. Didn’t even make the “What to watch” section, the BullsEye or anything. Kind of sad
The Oct 18th one, as in, Friday’s? Hmm. They said it would be on stands Friday and that there’s a picture that CaptainSwan fans would like but they weren’t allowed to say more about it which implies it’s something good and should be a juicy scoop so…how is it not there? Can’t imagine how that would be if there’s nothing in there at all about them! Maybe they did mean it for next week? I’m so confused!
Also it should totally have been in the what to watch column. What is wrong with these people?
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantIt still seems weird that it’s available two days before 3×04, especially if it relates to 3×05 (unless we’re all totally wrong about when it will be but it would make way more sense in 3×05 I think). You would think it would be out next week otherwise…or whichever episode it was relating to. Why tease too far in advance? (Unless they’re afraid of being scooped, especially after JMO’s tease?)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantNonnie, I felt like you do at first. I found it scrolled fast, and although I type super quick, it can be hard to keep up sometimes. Yet it does lend itself to more casual conversation than the formality of organized essays and thoughts. Plus all the fun code we can use to change size/color of text makes me feel like I have magic . MysteryKat: I’m prone to very long posts too. Every time I create a wall of text, I think of Mark Twain.
“I didn’t have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”
Thanks, that just made my day. Also – big shout out, cookies, and apologies for long-windedness to RG who has to read everything, whether she approves of all opinions or not!
Also – I am totally bitter I don’t even get to use the chat feature most of the time. Can’t imagine it being gone though and I love the threads that start with “so we were discussing in chat” – that means somebody actually found it valid enough to post and it was a collaborative effort and/or approved. I love that about this Oncer community. We analyze everything to death and combined, come up with some totally awesome ideas.
*passes out cookies*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI’m on the fence. From what I’ve seen out of the corner of my eye, most of the time if anything of interest is discussed, people usually go make a thread about it so that it ISN’T lost. I can totally understand feeling like you’ve missed a lot (I have to miss it 99% of the time, this browser stopped letting me have access to the box to type in and I haven’t been able to fix it yet/don’t like going to the other one), but since the preview function is still on the fritz, you can post something and by the time you have, 3 other replies show up saying the same thing or pointing out things you want to comment on.
The on-going chat can be entertaining and veer off into non-ouat things too but I enjoy peeking over and seeing if there’s new stuff posted that people are excited about. It’s a nice way to point out new stuff without constantly refreshing like I normally do.
Wish I could join in on the chat more. I feel more distanced just posting in the threads, especially since I end up writing a book instead of having an actual discussion about something. (Writer’s curse, sorry guys!). I may try to pop in more on it but I think it’s a positive thing for now. Plus it gets some of the crazy hairbrained ideas out of the way that lead to some really interesting discoveries that I love reading about in the threads later on!
I imagine (when it’s working which it seems to be for everyone but me *sigh*) that it’s also a great way for people who are super excited about something to have a chance to fangirl/boy together for a minute rather than waiting on long responses and hoping people see the threads. It’s nice not feeling alone when something major happens or new pictures are out or a juicy spoiler you want to discuss.
Like I said, it sucks to miss everything that happens while you’re gone so I totally get the point, but I feel like every time I look over, somebody’s saying “go start a thread about that” or “hey guys I just started a thread here about this: (insert link)” so it’s the best of both worlds.
Mine tends to freeze up until I refresh but again, that’s just my browser being stupid even though it worked when the new forums first started (go figure). But what little I’ve been able to use it / glance over and read I’ve genuinely enjoyed it. Not every little fangirl squeel needs to be documented for posterity, making the threads go on and on and on making it harder to catch up. Right now it doesn’t seem like there’s an option to select a page to go to so you can only go back a page at a time and trust me, in long threads, you don’t want to have to go backwards that far.
Curious to see what others say since I haven’t been able to actively do much but read chat when I’m around but I know a dedicated group use it and they’ve come up with some awesome stuff they’ve then posted about so I imagine it’s fairly popular with those who spend a lot of time on this site (like myself – I would totally use it more if I didn’t have to switch browsers *throws something*).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant*claps* to everything above!
I’ll be honest: the fandom guessed Bae would be Henry’s father in season 1 and I was expecting it. I actually LIKED the idea. I LOVE LOVE LOVE young Bae. I don’t think I can say that enough. Dylan is amazing. In fact I shipped Bae before I ever shipped Emma hardcore (though I did love Graham – RIP).
So when Season 2 rolled around and we decided “mystery guy” had to be Bae, I was…(words are escaping me). Not…underwhelmed per se, but there was something I couldn’t quite put my finger on. (I do really like MRJ actually, though he usually doesn’t play the friendliest of guys. He seems like a real sweetheart and I enjoy his interviews and it does not have ANYTHING to do with looks because both MRJ & Colin are adorable in their own ways!)
So I continued down this interesting path of ok SF, I guess that makes sense. I can see where people are coming from and I really liked Bae. I shipped him with Morraine (that didn’t last long) and I adored him with Wendy too (I still want to see him find a way back to the Darling family or them show up in NL or SOMETHING because it was too fast for me, I wanted more). I loved the Bae that stood up for both of them. That WANTED to fight, that WANTED to protect them. It broke my heart when Bae told Hook that he wanted to go back to his “real family” the Darlings.
And then we get to Tallahassee. Tallahassee changed EVERYTHING for me. There were fun moments in The Doctor and that’s where my ship met, but it was Tallahassee that cemented it. It drove home the fact that Emma is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT now than she was then.
It wasn’t just the jail thing. I know people think we need to “let that go” and I’m sure Emma hasn’t but that’s not it. It’s the ways around it. He could have told Pinocchio to take off (but knowing his name FREAKED HIM OUT). He could have promised to take her to SB, Maine around her 28th birthday (where she would have NO reason to stay without Henry being the catalyst unless Neal was going to confess all then and say hey, your parents are here, we need to save them even though you now think I’m crazy but oh yeah, his dad was there too).
It wasn’t even just those things which I’ve written on ad nauseum from the start. It’s the way they were when they were together. The MOMENT things got bad for him, he decided that he needed to leave. That it was “too dangerous” for the woman he formerly called the Bonnie to his Clyde. He was GOING TO LEAVE HER to go to Canada until she said she loved him and that SHE would take care of the watches to get HIM out of trouble and THEN she was left hanging because of Pinocchio. Not great teamwork.
It was her reaction to the idea of settling down. It didn’t seem right to me (I’ve written on it before) but it’s hard to put my finger on it. Once she was swayed she went into it 100% and believed in him but there was just something about that scene that really really bugs me and it has from the start.
Also – the running mentality. As I wrote earlier I was very very worried about what would happen to the little boy I loved after being so hurt by his father (and at this point, all we knew of him was that he went through the portal. That his father chose POWER over LOVE, and FEAR over BELIEF – what does that remind you of?). I WANTED Bae to stand up for people and fight for them and be heroic where his father didn’t manage it and I was afraid he’d turn into a bitter man who was so broken and yet he seemed sweet still, like he retained some of his Bae-ness even in becoming Neal.
And of course in Manhattan, we don’t even KNOW who he’s running from. He clearly didn’t think Emma or his father would be in NY. How did Tamara go visit him without him running for the hills? Call ahead? He was clearly on the run from someone which makes me wonder if he ever really cleared up his act after Emma went to jail. That was part of their dream after all, and it seemed like he had from his suit and engagement but he was still very much a man on the run and this was after becoming Neal. (We need more backstory on what happened to Bae between the portal and becoming Neal, because that…is not my Bae, and I find it hard to find that lovable. At least the thing that made Rumple the “coward” in town was to GET BACK TO HIS SON. The only time he acted like a coward was not fighting for Milah – which could have left Bae fatherless and probably would have – and trying to get Bae to run away from even THEN Bae didn’t want to run! I miss him!)
Literally within the episode, it is clear why JMO has said that Hook reminds her of Neal. They’re both thieves of a sort (Hook is a pirate so same idea). They worked as a team. They had adventures. They prize souvenirs. Emma actually tells Hook that she can’t take the chance she’s wrong about him. She doesn’t say she thinks he’s lying to her (he BELIEVES she truly can tell). She says she’s too afraid to go through that again.
We literally watched her try to work AS A TEAM and get hung out to dry on her own by someone she genuinely LOVED and TRUSTED and here’s a pirate (which automatically comes with a bad reputation no matter how he got that way which we still don’t know even though he does seem to have a bit of a code) who is making a point of BELIEVING in her and her superpower and has worked together AS A TEAM and even POINTED OUT TO HER that they make a great team.
Tallahassee COMPLETELY compared & contrasted these two relationships to explain WHY Emma was too afraid to trust Hook even though EVERYTHING IN HER was telling her to do so. That he wasn’t lying. That he did want to work with her and her friends to get to SB and he was happy as long as they’d take him. He didn’t even take the compass from her or try to, just chuckled that she was smart enough to keep it in her possession, all the while COMPLIMENTING her left and right on how smart and resourceful and amazing she is, aka SUPPORTING her, even when she changed the plan on him. He stopped to TAKE CARE OF HER.
Everything that was WRONG about how Emma and Neal worked as a team was shown to work RIGHT with Hook and Emma, to the point where literally the ONLY excuse Emma could come up with for NOT TRUSTING HIM was that she was too afraid. And even then she made sure he would be looked after and not killed so she could have a headstart. She left him chained up for a few HOURS at most but she hadn’t promised him a life together like Neal had with her. She outright told him this is why I have to do this. She got NOTHING from Neal.
This is all very important because it parallels to SO many other things as well. Awhile back I think I talked about why Anton sees things differently because of Emma and Hook as well so I’ll keep this brief. He saw her Uncle James and Jack and their “teamwork” which consisted of stealing his stuff, killing his family, and then James saying well that sucks and leaving Jill to die alone. Not the best first impression of humans who had promised him friendship.
Then Emma and Hook come along and work together as a genuine team. He sees this person who is broken and upset and hurt with everything to lose, just trying to get back to her loved ones (having no clue it was her awful uncle who did this to him in the first place), and what does she ask for when he finally decides she must not be such a bad person because she could have killed him and she didn’t? She asks that her partner be taken care of. That Anton just gives her a headstart and promise not to let him die. Emma outright tells Hook “You won’t die” because while she can’t trust herself, she DOES trust Anton not to kill him and to do as he promised.
So Anton has literally seen the horrible couple where the guy left her there to die, and then watched Emma and Hook – a couple with no prior relationship, where Emma still takes a moment to plead not only for her life, but for his and just asks for a headstart rather than just ditching the guy and leaving him to his death. It’s why Emma, for the longest time, was the only human Anton could actually trust and why is that? BECAUSE HE WAS BURNED LIKE THAT BEFORE. WHO do we see get burned and be afraid to trust in that same situation in an earlier episode? Emma, and her actions almost cost her Hook, whereas Anton’s almost lost him his new best buddy Emma but he learned to trust again BECAUSE of her, just like she is BECAUSE of Hook. (I need more Emma/Anton interaction. He is totally the Grumpy to her Snow).
I think we all know how I feel about Manhattan right now but there they paralleled Rumple/Milah to Neal/Emma pretty conclusively even using some of the same language and the fact that a son was involved. To top that off with basically everything Neal said in the bar (I seriously wanted to throw something), and then look at this season where Emma/Hook have been paralleled to Snow/Charming within an episode as well…they add up!
It’s not just random parallels that are similar here and there, extracted from a multitude of episodes (though those are fun too). It’s not the tiny things that sometimes the writers don’t even notice that they did (I cracked up the other day when somebody told Adam thanks for the Lost easter egg and he didn’t know what they were talking about and then said it was an incidental one but yay for finding those, keep sending them cause sometimes we don’t even notice). It’s WITHIN THE SAME EPISODE parallels that are very very important.
It AMAZES me how much I’ve heard lately that people saw nothing remotely of value with the flashbacks of 3×02. Not one mention of any CS interaction or significant point to the backstory. Almost all of the feedback I saw was that the flashbacks were boring or not up to par or didn’t seem to jive with the story or were about stuff we already knew about so why are we seeing it? Seriously? HOW MANY OBVIOUS WAYS did they parallel CS to Snowing? The whole point of that episode was to parallel it. Otherwise the backstory might have seemed a little pointless.
We are not delusional guys. We have seen it and kept saying it over and over again no matter how many people tell us we’re crazy or reading into things too much. We ALL read into things and we seem to read or watch the same things and come up with so many different versions of what it means that it’s crazy. At best ambiguous. But I have faith that there’s just too much there for us to be out of our minds. Too many otherwise pointless moments to show when we know they have to cut so much out as it is.
They have gone so far above and beyond with Hook this season I’m ecstatic. I know last year it was an uphill fight to get some to even like Hook (and I know in particular fans of Belle had reason to hate him, and fans of Rumple too for that matter. I was so upset after the Crocodile because I love Rumple and Hook both and didn’t like them being up against each other AT ALL).
Now, season 3 we’re seeing the real Hook. The side that only Emma has thus far been able to bring out. The side that is saying 300 years and what did it get me? Such a waste. The KILLIAN JONES that we have believed in for about a year now, from that very first climb up the beanstalk. The one who KNEW WHO EMMA WAS DEEP DOWN and wants to know more. The one that can’t keep his eyes off her now. The one whose hope for a 2nd chance at love lies with a certain blonde Savior.
It is beautiful and real and it is sailing. I refuse to believe otherwise at this point. There has been NOTHING they have shown us that eliminates it.
I’ll admit, I have my moments of doubt. I rewatch an episode a couple of times before saying it was a good thing for us. I sometimes wonder if this or that means that it has to be SF and we’re just kidding ourselves. But when I analyze it and breathe, I always come back to being able to put my fears aside because they have set it up so beautifully and I do believe in it. F, T, & P.D. for us right? I BELIEVE.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
October 15, 2013 at 10:21 pm in reply to: DISAPPROVE of Tink encouraging Regina to commit adultery #216220MysteryKat25ParticipantGaultheria wrote: Tinkerbell seems to be a kind of shipper, except that she’s trying to bring together real people (you know what I mean), and she can’t write that they don’t get hurt.
Tink as the in-show representation of zealous shipper fans. Love it!
Me too! I think she definitely sees them as “meant to be” and doesn’t read the “eventually” part in fine print. She wants to get from Point A to Point B as quickly as possible and doesn’t realize all the stops along the way that need to be made in order for them to be right for each other and ready and open to new love at the right time.
So literally all she sees is they’re meant to be and doesn’t understand why Regina spent 40 years being miserable when she told her who she was meant to love again. It’s like us yelling at the screen for any of our couples to just kiss already and be together and stop doing stupid things, when most of the characters are very damaged people that have to fix things in themselves first before being a perfect match for their equally broken love!
Life is a journey, not a destination and that holds true for true love as well. One of my favorite quotes from Jane Austen’s Emma (appropriate!) is from Mr. Knightley to Emma Woodhouse:
Perhaps it is our imperfections that make us so perfect for one another.
This basically sums up how I feel about all of these characters. There’s potential for them to redeem themselves and find love again, but they wouldn’t necessarily even connect with their true love or soul mate when they first met them if they hadn’t been through the things they had before. It is our life experiences and our choices who shape who we are.
I think Tink just sees TRUE LOVE and draws little hearts around it and doesn’t understand how anybody could pass that up but I really don’t think Regina was anywhere near ready at the time and Tink pushed her – big time (and in a direction that does NOBODY any good by encouraging her to cheat on King Leopold and run off with the outlaw).
I fully expect Regina and Robin Hood to connect on so many levels and Roland is a definite bonus that wouldn’t have been there had she met him back then. (Pretty sure Robin is happy to have him around too). Everything happens for a reason as Shakespeare so eloquently put it:
The course of true love never did run smooth
As I said earlier, they’ve done a pretty good job of showing how any relationship that starts out in that way has a tragic ending so I think the show in general is keeping to that idea. It would be totally unrealistic for not one character to suggest such a thing though, especially when someone is obviously miserable like Regina (and goodness knows we saw her do that to Genie before too).
I’m not an EvilRegal by any means, though I enjoy most of the characters on the show and can defend them when warranted. I’m just saying that I think this was Tink being overzealous and very big on instant gratification and not in any way a bad thing for the show because it is clearly showing us the RIGHT way to go about doing things since every adulterous relationship has ended badly. That and the fact that this season has already made a point of doing things the RIGHT way vs the easy way (of which adultery would definitely count).
I was so proud of MM for putting an end to things with David even though we know that the REAL Snow & Charming are meant to be together. Perfect example of right vs wrong with REAL Snowing vs. CURSED Snowing. There’s a reason David got a lot of hate from the fans in Season 1. He was being anything other than Charming by cheating on Kathryn and it ended badly.
As someone who values marriage very highly (though I myself am not yet married) I would generally be offended by this idea as well for sure! But I’m not offended that one character suggested such a thing that another character did not act on. WE know it might have saved a heck of a lot of lives which makes it a morally grey area at best, but at the end of the day, it’s not surprising that somebody might think it was ok to do such a thing if it meant finding their true love (and really, what does Tink have to do all day as a fairy? She was probably bored and THOUGHT she was helping this clearly miserable person who she thought tried to kill herself find something to live for. She at least meant well even if she went about it the wrong way).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantLove all the adorable pics everyone is sharing!
I agree on the naming thing. I like the sound of RegalHood but I’m afraid it’ll get confusing if people abbreviate it. Hopefully that’s not the case though. Plus I like the positive word usage like Regal rather than using Evil. Evil doesn’t sound too promising for a redemption storyline!
Whichever it is I’m on board and excited about it. Never thought I’d get that way about a Regina ship (glad I was into but hesitant with EvilFire!) but I’m really liking this so far (especially with little Roland in the mix! He is beyond cute!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantVery very excited about this regardless of whether it’s the kiss or not. I’m surprised she teased it in the first place to be honest.
JMO keeps saying that Emma is focused on finding Henry because she IS. That is her main priority. She’s not running around the jungle trying to figure out her love life. That does not exclude her from having lighter moments or bonding moments with anyone in the group and that includes Hook (who has already gotten her to genuinely smile briefly, as well as enjoy a comfortable silence and even get a tiny bit flirty for a couple of seconds).
For all we know, something major could happen where somebody’s life is in jeopardy and both of them know what it’s like to lose someone quickly without getting a chance to say or show how they feel (Emma with Graham and now Neal; Hook with Milah). I don’t see a kiss taking away from her main priority at all, especially since they’re not trekking through the jungle 24/7 and we’ve even seen them sit down and take a break to think/rest and even do some bonding and address things that have festered between the group for a long time.
Her focus is and will still be on finding her son, but it isn’t going to exclude bonding moments, even potentially romantic ones, 100% for any of them, including Emma. Goodness knows Snowing is taking time to kiss once in awhile and they’re worried about Henry too (Charming thinks he’s dying but that just makes it that much more urgent for him to go find a cure AND save his grandson but he still knows that he and Snow NEED those moments – he doesn’t want to just die on her without telling her he loves her and kissing her when he gets a chance but it doesn’t detract from their mission in any way). They’ve gotta rest every now and then, and sometimes they talk, or kiss.
Since they keep teasing a kiss and saying that Emma’s main priority is finding Henry, we don’t know what leads to the kiss, much less how she reacts to it. She’s likely to put her walls immediately back up so she DOESN’T focus on her love life while trying to save her son. He is and always will be her priority but that doesn’t exclude her from forming a romantic connection with Hook along the way that gets backburnered until a) Henry is found and b) Neal shows up which just complicates things which takes us to Emma REALLY not focusing on her love life.
All of that said I will be SHOCKED if this picture is a CS kiss (and I do agree that she could have flashbacks with Neal where she gets to kiss him as well but with the context of what the guy knew and followed that question with, the one that she seems to be referring to in this particular instance is a CS one which would be huge and very spoilery.) I can’t imagine them releasing that in a picture instead of us giving us the moment on screen though – just like I don’t expect it to be in a sneak peak, not that we’re getting many this year).
Not sure what else it COULD be since we don’t have much to go on and we’ve already seen them share the infamous drink that JMO teased (3 drinks so far actually!) but I am very anxious and excited to see it! Should help me bridge the gap between Friday & Sunday. New material is always good!
I think I’ll take those smelling salts now RG. I found this news late late last night and I’m still not over trying to figure out what else it could be!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantHaha, I saw something about that last night. Love it!
This is going to be long (sorry, I had a lot of feelings!) but one thing I do want to mention early for those who will likely skim.
Any new thoughts about the group pic that Ginny said had a lot of spoilers in it? Josh was holding an arrow which is obviously Charming getting hit with it, Emma is holding a lantern above Tink and Neal (interesting…), Neal is holding a coconut (should have been HOOK, it’s a CS thing!!), Ginny is standing between Emma and Hook with her arm around both of them (potential for Snow to get used to the idea? Ginny did seem a little more pro CS possibly toward the time when the premiere started…what ep were they filming then?)
On to the rest of my long-windedness:
I too always struggled with how young Bae would turn out because I LOVE and ADORE young Bae. He stands up to people (including his father), he does what’s right, he risks his life to save Morraine and Wendy (and her brothers).
But I was afraid. Very very afraid of what he may have turned into. Would he stay that boy and prevail? Or would some of his father’s darkness rub off on him after being bitter about his father ditching their deal and falling through the portal?
He seemed to really love it with the Darlings. In fact, he told Hook that they were his “real family” and he wanted to go back to them. (Reminds me of Henry actually – whoever he’s on good terms with, THAT’S his “real family” at the time). But I still loved him. He’d been through a lot already and his pain, like Hook’s, was understandable. Both had been burned by Rumple and had their lives turned upside down but they were adorable together and Hook was giving up everything. He had chosen HOPE and LOVE for Milah over bitterness and anger and revenge for her death. He was taking care of her son the way she would want him to, and Bae couldn’t see past HIS anger and resentment and threw it in his face, blaming him for everything and opening old wounds.
Neither was right in this instance. Hook had a crew to look out for and Lost Boys coming after them to get to Bae at all times and now Bae wanted to leave. There were NO good choices for anyone, and Bae kept digging at him to the point where he pretended not to care anymore. It was too painful. It was EASIER to fall into his hate and anger and rage and go back to plotting his revenge on the man who not only screwed up his life, but ended Milah’s and changed Bae’s.
And yet, I still adore young Bae. I keep hoping that some of that goodness is in there. That he wasn’t completely destroyed by what his father did. And yet he’s different (they all are. They’ve ALL been through so much heartache and anger and pain).
When we first saw him in NY, I had no idea what to think. He seemed sad and distant but not quite as bad off as I expected him to be. He hadn’t changed into some monster that I had been expecting from the moment he fell through the portal. It’s like he was stronger than that. He wasn’t falling into the trap his father had of letting his anger dictate his life and turn him into something he wasn’t. He was holding it off for the time being but clearly wasn’t happy or unaffected by it.
Tallahassee showed that he still had a sweet side. He was still thieving and doing what he had to get by but there was still hope for goodness in him. We saw him react to the dreamcatcher and realized that he still suffers nightmares of the portal where his father let go of him. He didn’t come out unscathed and it’s been building for a LONG time.
I see why people enjoy their relationship. I get it. It’s the choices he’s made since listening to Pinocchio I have a problem with. (Jail is bad enough but afterwards is where he really screwed up and hasn’t held himself accountable until recently). He showed a lot of self-doubt and a lack of faith in the one person who always backed him up, always believed in him. He had already tried to leave her once and she insisted on being a part of things and ended up going to jail for his crimes (reminds of the Regina/Genie relationship except Neal wasn’t outright using Emma).
But now we have a DESPERATE Neal. One who thinks nothing of putting a 4 year old at risk (who, let’s face it, I will be SHOCKED if the kid doesn’t say “I believe” again and calls the shadow – seriously). The way he was going through that cupboard to find a portal was the act of a desperate man with everything to lose. That makes him VERY dangerous.
He was 14 for a VERY long time. That HAS to leave some emotional scarring (especially given his reaction to Rumple suggesting that he turn back the clock). He knows his life isn’t perfect but he doesn’t want to undo all of it either. That doesn’t mean that his mentality wasn’t stuck at a rotten age for too long.
One of the things I loved about young Bae was the fact that he DID stand up to his father (was the only one who could really). He loved him but he saw him for what he was and he called him out on it. It was him trying to change his father and set him back down the right path that caused all this mess in the first place but he MEANT well.
Now, I fear he’ll go the same way and start down that path. He’s starting to UNDERSTAND Rumple. To see why he does things the way he does. Why he NEEDS magic. But that is taking the easy route. The short-cut.
He spent enough time in NL surely to know about PP and his games. We know that, at least for right now, PP is all about HOW you get there, not getting to Henry in the first place. This will be significant, and I don’t think just for Emma.
Sure Neal got taken by the shadow and was found by Felix and may get closer to Henry first, we don’t know. But did he get there in the RIGHT way? PP isn’t one to mess with and he’s in the middle of his game and doesn’t like it when people mess with the rules.
This season’s theme is about BELIEF and doing things the RIGHT way vs the EASY way. We had that drilled into us as to why Regina can’t just magic her way around the island and catch PP that way. We’ve seen Neal actually say he took the easy way and now we’re watching him do it again out of desperation. Mulan outright told him that his BELIEF in love wasn’t strong enough to outweigh his fear of rejection. (Reminiscent of Manhattan where he was more upset with Emma for bringing his father to him and making a deal that she would never have to see him again if she lied to Rumple and left – a deal which she tried to take but Rumple saw through).
On top of that, Emma BELIEVES Neal is dead. We’ve already seen in the promo Snow FREAKING OUT at at least the idea of Charming dying – we don’t know if she knows or if he’s hinted at the idea and she’s just freaking out. Either way, she can’t IMAGINE moving on. Likewise, look at how Regina spiralled after Daniel’s death. The change it made in her. Or the change in Hook after Milah was killed. It’s taken him 300 years to step away from that revenge. Now look at Emma: she’s still strong. The woman who falls apart over everything emotional including doing whatever it takes to get her son back, is NOT FREAKING OUT.
She is focused on saving Henry, and is genuinely SMILING and being a little flirty at times in Hook’s company. This is DAYS after she thinks Neal died. She was sad for him (and for Henry), but she toasted to him, took his sword, and moved on. She’s not crumbling. She’s not sitting around crying about it. She’s off working with a guy who is CLEARLY INTO HER and HAS SAID SO and is NOT pushing him away – even when Regina suggests they’re a couple. Sorry but sitting that closely and sharing coconuts is not exactly “What? Why would you think he’s my boyfriend? You’re crazy!” material. If anything, she’s adding fuel to the fire of that rumor but she’s certainly not going out of her way to shut it down. I think we’ll be shown Snow’s reaction to the thought of losing Charming to show that this is exactly how Emma is NOT acting. Especially since we just focused on HOW LONG it’s taken Regina to get her act together and maybe even think about choosing love over anger. 40 odd years or so and she still hasn’t gone to find the man with the lion tattoo. Snow’s yelling about never being able to move on and Emma’s…well, Emma’s flirting with a pirate after a matter of days. If that doesn’t tell you she’s moved on after over a decade of hurt and betrayal that finally has closure, I don’t know what does. She’ll still be shocked that Neal’s alive and it may make her panic slightly because of her inner 17 year old but I trust who she is NOW to recognize that that’s all in the past and choose Hook. I really do.
We understand why SNOW thinks it’s too soon because to her, she can’t even fathom loving someone other than Charming. As far as we know, that was her first love and it happened to be her true love as well. She doesn’t WANT to see anything happening between Emma and Hook and doesn’t think it’s possible so she just shuts Regina up and Emma never backs either up on anything but goes back to doing what she does.
For someone who flips out and yells at people who stand in her way of getting her son, the trek so far has been fairly peaceful for Emma. She’s CALM and COLLECTED (for the most part) and Hook has been there every step of the way, SUPPORTING her and BELIEVING in her and COMPLIMENTING her for figuring things out. He goes along with HER plans and she backs HIM up when he is being helpful. He’s taking care of her family as much as he is of her and EVENTUALLY they will be bound to notice this. Some will stay blind to it for as long as possible but just because Emma is focused on Henry doesn’t mean that she’ll stay blind forever to the way he’s been treating her. Especially since he hasn’t been pushing (much like Charming vs Snow – Snow pushes and Charming sits back and does what’s needed but doesn’t push).
We’ve seen what good men have become when they get desperate. Rumple was once a good man with the best of intentions. He loved his family. He did whatever he had to to GET BACK TO HIS BOY including injuring himself and getting a cowardly reputation if it meant living to be with his family. He became the Dark One by accident, hoping just to control him long enough to get the boys home from the Ogres War. To save all the children. Again – best of intentions. But he got desperate and once he tapped into that Dark One power, things started unraveling for him.
He even pushed Belle away when he had the chance at real, true love because he needed his magic to get to his son. He’d do whatever it takes as quickly as possible (which still took forever) including manipulating people into doing horrendous things so that HE could get to HIS SON no matter what it cost anyone else. Who does that sound like right now?
I have hope for most of the characters on the show and that includes Rumple & Neal. But that doesn’t mean that Neal isn’t currently following a path set by Rumple. The fact that he’s willing to risk Roland KNOWING how awful it would be if he was wrong and Roland got sent there, to take the easy, magical way to get to his kid with no regard for anyone else’s, he is now starting down that same slippery slope.
He was a good guy once. I LOVE young Bae. He has had the best of intentions but hurts those closest to him and makes bad decisions about HOW to go about getting the things he wants (and that was BEFORE choosing to embrace magic and by sympathetic towards his dad now that it suits his needs). I HATE that he has had such a horrible life and been manipulated by goodness knows who or what or why (seemingly PP) and that he, like his father, has made some TERRIBLE choices but it doesn’t meant that I want him to suffer.
I was genuinely upset when Tamara finally told him the truth. The hurt and betrayal on his face, once again him being manipulated and walked all over and becoming heartbroken. It was devestating when you think about everything he’s been through for hundreds of years…but he’s NOT THE ONLY ONE.
We will be getting more backstory soon on Hook 3×05!!!!! and I really really hope that people start treating him like a human being after that because we HAVE had way more backstory on NealFire. We’ve seen him as a boy and his rotten childhood. We’ve seen him suffer. But people still say that Killian Jones is “just a pirate” and therefore doesn’t deserve anything. That he hasn’t suffered nearly as much. That he needs to find love elsewhere. Um, why?
That’s like playing Survivor and voting for who is the most deserving of the money at the start based on their jobs and how many kids they have. There’s no point in playing otherwise. Likewise, the person who Emma loves shouldn’t be based on “who’s suffered the most” and we haven’t even SEEN how Hook has suffered other than watching him lose the one he loved and having her die in his arms which would make ANYONE hurt. (I KNOW there are lots of Gremma fans in this fandom and it hurts ME to see them so upset for Emma but make nothing of Hook losing Milah in the same way for practically the SAME REASON).
When we do know more I think people will finally get that BOTH men have suffered greatly and I truly believe that both deserve to find love again but true love needs to be with who they’re meant to be with, not who they take pity on. I hate the argument that NealFire has been through too much so it’s not fair to want Emma to hurt him too but he hurt her first…and repeatedly and in a big way and as she’s demonstrated this season, she can’t just forget that. She may forgive it and find a way to come to terms with it, but it’s something that she lives with every day.
I don’t want to see Neal hurt anymore. I really don’t. Everyone hated Milah and Cora for hurting Rumple but he was MEANT TO BE with Belle. We all know that. Many of us LOVE that. Don’t you think that if Neal is on a similar journey to Rumple (though hopefully not nearly as severe of one!) that he’ll eventually find his true love too??
Desperate souls do desperate things and I really do fear the path that he’s on since we all know what road that paves, but just like Rumple it doesn’t make it impossible for him to find love again. It doesn’t (and most CSers genuinely want that for him too, and love young Bae and the potential that he had. We want him to find who he’s meant to be with). It just hurts me that people seem to think that Bae has been through too much so he needs the woman he hurt badly to go back to him. That’s not how it works.
He’s had WAY more than 2 chances to make it up to her and is just now realizing he should have done so already. I honestly don’t know how to feel about his recent declarations because it’s great that he realizes he screwed up but he’s so downhearted about it that it’s like he still doesn’t believe in it. It’s the same mistakes over and over again. On the one hand, I’m thrilled he’s being realistic (even if he’s not giving a full confession of his mistakes to Mulan…) and acknowledging he screwed up and it may be too late, but it also reminds me of him making the choice FOR Emma and not even bothering to try because he just didn’t believe she could take him back. At least now he’s trying and I hope it brings him closure, I really do. I’m just scared of how he’s going about getting to them, especially since he’ll be spending time with a suicidal Rumple in 3×04 .
Contrast that with Hook and it’s like everyone here has been saying: he’s going about this the RIGHT way. He’s not pushing Emma, he’s just being supportive. I loved that Charming and Hook were holding the lanterns for their ladies and letting them lead the way. It’s a subtle supportiveness. On top of that we have Hook occasionally saying positive things out loud and not just the “I fancy you” stuff but telling Emma she did a good job or backing her up when someone doesn’t agree with her plan – which is usually a plan she overrode him on. Captains aren’t used to taking orders, from anyone. Yet Emma has repeatedly changed the plans and instead of being upset with her he is IMPRESSED and let’s her know it.
Even though we didn’t have any big conversations or anything in the last ep, we still had the genuine camaraderie between the two. He was opening a coconut for her which she gladly took instead of saying “I can do it myself, pass me one” (yes letting him use his Hook is more practical, but she’s also VERY independent and not used to anyone putting her first, which he has been doing since they got there).
Seeing people comfortable enough to sit that close in silence is refreshing. Matching that with Snow curled up in Charming’s arms a few feet away, also silent and it was beautiful. Emma and Hook aren’t quite there yet. Emma still has her arms wrapped around her knees, a little closed off and paranoid. Her walls are still up. But instead of refusing a drink, she has accepted 3 of them from him now. She’s trusting him more. He’s getting to her, whether she’s allowing herself to think about it or not.
Her prime objective is getting to Henry. She’s not letting anything get in the way of that and that’s what JMO has been saying. But it doesn’t mean that sometimes love doesn’t sneak up on you when you’re least expecting it. Hook definitely isn’t pushing but is making it clear and Emma, like Snow, is a woman who thinks actions speak louder than words. He is showing her he’s there for her and always will be, all without making a sound. I fully expect them to keep getting closer and closer to the point where she doesn’t feel the need to have her guard up. She was still sitting VERY close to him and she didn’t have to at all (and they certainly didn’t have to show it).
Again, that scene came after Regina’s comment about Hook being Emma’s boyfriend and she definitely wasn’t worried about it or trying to prove anything. She just continued doing what SHE wanted and she clearly gravitates to Hook these days. In almost every shot we see of them, they’re standing closer and closer. Body language, body language, body language. She may not want to think about her emotions right now, but he’s still getting her to take a breather and actually smile sometimes so she’s not all doom and gloom. He’ll be there for her if she starts to panic. We’ve seen nothing but supportive from him, even when it meant leaving his ship in ruins or trying to protect her family who clearly don’t like or respect him much. That’s HUGE!
I feel like we’ve had a lot of foreshadowing in 3×01 and 3×03 to what will happen ultimately once Neal gets back to the group. As much as he’s said he’s going to find them and save them and tell her how he feels cause that’s what you do when you love someone, we’ve already SEEN that from Hook. Mulan says that she believes Emma will forgive him (even though Mulan doesn’t have the whole story) and I think she will too, but that doesn’t mean going back to a relationship.
The fact that they do have Neal saying over and over again that it won’t necessarily means that he’ll get her back but he’s going to try is big. It means he’s finally learned SOMETHING from his mistakes and that he will try, but Emma already has someone there who IS trying, hasn’t left her with nearly as much emotional baggage, and is going about doing things in the RIGHT way and has already made his intentions known.
We know that Neal was upset and regretted leaving Emma in jail and all that, but we’ve heard other characters say they’ve regretted things every day and never did anything to fix that either (Milah is a prime example). We also have seen him NOT go to Emma the moment he could (when the curse was broken), whereas Hook, minutes after leaving, turned back around when he DIDN’T have a good reason to do so. He didn’t owe her anything. In fact, she thwarted his revenge plot at every corner. He didn’t owe her a big explanation or have years of pain to make up for, and HE TURNED AROUND.
They literally book-ended season 2 with the man who didn’t come back for her (when he could and should have) and the one who knew, within a very short time of leaving that it was the absolute WRONG thing to do and HE TURNED AROUND TO MAKE IT RIGHT and has been by her side ever since, offering up absolutely everything he has to help her.
He hasn’t belittled her. He BELIEVES in her superpower. He KNOWS her for who she is and WANTS to know more (direct contrast to Neal saying if he had known who she really was he never would have gone near her). He is super supportive of her and is SHOWING her left and right. This is a man who IS doing things the right way and not letting his past dictate his future. He’s LETTING IT GO in a season where everybody is supposed to embrace who they really are, let go of the past, and move forward.
Letting go of the past doesn’t mean forgetting. It means learning from it and moving forward. It doesn’t mean forgiving to the point of sweeping everything under the rug like it never happened and going back to something that didn’t work. It means finding a way to co-exist and get along and still care for the people who hurt you (even with the best of intentions) as I believe Emma WILL forgive both her parents and Neal. They’ll always be a part of them and she’ll love them but she won’t be IN love with him and she doesn’t HAVE to be (and especially just because he’s been hurt so much! So has she – and mostly by him).
I don’t know what to think about how things will play out now. Will Neal accept his fate and be ok as long as he knows Emma’s ok? Will he be hypocritical about her moving on even though he moved on and, in Emma’s words, “found Tallahassee with someone else” even though it didn’t work out? What’s his current relationship with Hook like? Did they ever patch things up in NL after we saw Bae go to the Lost Boys? We haven’t seen them have an actual conversation in present day yet.
Neal could yell about how Hook ruined his family and now he’s taking Emma (note: Hook and Milah were NOT married and it was 300 years ago. Also you can’t “steal” a person from one relationship to another. Milah went willingly and was in love with Hook and I think most around here can agree that Rumple is much better off with Belle). I really hope he doesn’t go that route and turn into the 14 year old boy again (it’s definitely where Henry gets it from with the occasional whiny attitude) but I really hope that on this journey, Neal has come to accept the past and that he and Emma can talk about things and come to terms with it and that it won’t end up where he’s slipping further to the dark side for awhile out of bitterness when it was his mistakes that landed her in someone else’s arms in the first place. (Especially since she didn’t throw a fit about him moving on with Tamara, just that Tamara was up to no good – which she was! Likewise Henry I swear if you whine about it, grrrr, he didn’t have a problem with Tamara either. He just got his hopes up with the idea of Tamara being evil but Emma has repeatedly said that she is not getting back together with Neal and I hope she means it).
They all seriously need to talk. I want CaptainSwanFire to get along and co-parent Henry and for Hook & Neal to get along like they used to cause I love the Hook and young Bae scenes on the ship and I love that Neal still knows how to drive the Jolly Roger and all that stuff. They need to get along for Henry’s sake and for their own.
It should make for at least a little bit of Jealous!Killian which should be fun, even if it’s misunderstood jealous (ie: Han Solo in Return of the Jedi when he doesn’t have reason to panic but still thinks that Leia might choose Luke – not knowing why she wouldn’t of course! – and tries to be understanding and step back even though the idea hurts him). I think we’re going to see a lot of emotion and Colin does a GREAT job showing that for Hook. This season has been incredible so far with how genuine Hook’s emotions have been. He’s wearing his heart on his sleeve for the world to see but it’s mostly in stolen glances that nobody but Regina seems to notice so far.
(By the way I kind of love the fact that Regina and Hook are bonding a bit – especially now that we know HQ won’t happen. It’s just a genuine understanding of each other and they talk about finding love again and Regina can read how into Emma he is. It’s cute and I love that she called them out on that).
Also, if Regina is redeemed this season (or mostly redeemed, she’ll still be sassy and snarky and awesome I hope!), and Rumple is willing to sacrifice everything to save Henry, and Hook has already given up everything AND PP will (possibly?) be wrapped up with the first 11 episodes when NL is done…what’s gonna happen in the 2nd half?? And who will the bad guys be? o.O Our current bad guys are all getting redeemed and finding who they’re supposed to be with (even though Regina hasn’t met RH or Roland yet, can’t wait for that!). Just something I thought of when I realized that, with all the goodness we’re getting CS-wise, I have no clue where to even start with the headcanon for a lot of it. (Also makes me mildly worry more about the fact that we are currently seeing Neal go down a slippery slope but I want him to be accepting of it all once he talks to Emma so….yeah, I’m just afraid for him. Or Henry. Gosh I can’t imagine Henry going dark but he does have both in him and goodness knows what he’ll have gone through in NL. I hope he stays a believer and is alright though but we’ve seen him have the capacity to be bitter and jump sides when things aren’t going his way too. Hopefully he’ll grow out of that, I love Henry).
Anyways this was a very long rant about where I think they might be going with the whole CSF thing but I still think it bodes very well for CaptainSwan. I have faith for now, especially with them teasing the heck out of CS and the pic being released on Friday – seriously can’t wait!!!! I want to see it NOW so we can theorize over it. I just don’t see the point in them teasing it to no end, if they weren’t going somewhere with it. After all, we got a poster for Hook saying “Believe a pirate can be a hero” and they’ve been promoting CS like crazy. With how rabid the fanbase is about things they never promoted or intended in the first place, I can’t imagine them being ok with CS being promoted like crazy only to shut it down. Unless they just relish the hate and want to pull the wool over our eyes, but in the past they haven’t changed stuff even when we’ve figured it out so…I trust their vision is still intact (which is what Adam has said about Hook and Emma’s journey before as well).
And keep in mind…these promo people are the same ones who gave up Rumple being the beast, and Whale being Frankenstein early too. (Sure, just the promo the week before, but still). They may get some things wrong from time to time, but I seriously doubt that the tidbits the writers and cast and everyone give to all these magazines and stuff are teasing something that won’t happen, and they’ve already set it up as NOT a fling by showing a slow burn and having Hook have OBVIOUS feelings. This is a great thing and I can’t wait to see it keep building! What are the odds they share another drink next week to keep it going?
(Sorry this was so long-winded but I woke up with a lot of feelings today after hearing about the picture on Friday!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
-
AuthorPosts