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MysteryKat25Participant
So happy to be having a civil discussion about SwanFire! As much as I have issues with them at times, I do get the appeal and the more I hear of what I consider legitimate arguments, the happier I am with having to face the possibility should it happen. I’ll love the show no matter what though.
I was asked about my issues with it not too long ago and after giving them saw that the person asking the questions told someone that CSers only like it cause we think Colin is hotter than MRJ and that we all hate Neal because he left Emma in jail (which is nothing remotely like what I said or feel) so I appreciate having actual discussions on the topic without throwing mud and calling fans delusional because both sides really do have points. We’re all entitled to our opinions and preferences but nothing is set in stone yet and as long as it is still up for debate, it should be up for *civil* debate as well.
We are all Oncers and want our favorite characters to be happy! We just have different ideas of how to get them to that point, that’s all. It doesn’t mean that any of us think couples we have seen on the show are not legitimate. I may argue the finer points of whether I define SF as a couple *right now* but they’ve still been shown on the show as a couple. The thing that started this whole debate was what the list included and its classifications because either it was 1 couple too long/few short or a great many too short. I do believe they are all “legitimate” though – hopefully there wasn’t any confusion on that point. It was all about the classification system for me. They are certainly an important legit couple on the show in that they have been shown to us at one point in time as a couple, but they haven’t been put on a shortlist of proven TLs yet, nor are they a couple *currently*
I haven’t gotten to do my season rewatch yet and I’m hoping with all of these things in mind that I will see more of the positive stuff everyone seems to be enjoying about Neal – I find I do like him when it’s not specifically a SF moment post-Tallahassee and I do genuinely feel for the character and what he has been through. I certainly don’t celebrate when he gets hurt or want anything bad to happen to him. He’s been through a LOT!
I’m hesitant to say anything is definite this early but I like understanding the other side of things, especially since most of my Oncer friends, mostly around here, are on the other side. The more screentime these guys get, and the more fleshed out their stories are, the more we will have to go on and the more opportunity to fall in love with them and appreciate them more / think of them as viable options for Emma – and I do think both have a chance for sure.
I am happy to hear that some are at least a little more open to Hook now and about as equally open to the idea of CS as I am to SF – both of these guys grow on you after awhile and my hope is that by the time they’re all reunited, the audience is a little more torn / at least a sliver open to the other side happening so it’s not such a knock-down, drag-out fight all the time – if only so that everyone can understand Emma’s dilemma and difficulty choosing. SO sick of the mud-slinging directed at fans for having a difference of opinion! Every character/pairing deserves to have passionate fans, they’re all awesome – though I could do without GOAT.
I will agree that Emma does wait til the last second to say how she feels and I’m not discounting those instances and I’m not saying she doesn’t have feelings for Neal. They share a past and a son and he has clearly affected the rest of her life. The only question I have about that declaration between them is how much of it is real and how much of it is the idea of it based on what it used to be. After such a long time, either could be true. H&K keep reminding us that they do have feelings for one another, but it is entirely possible to love someone without being in love with them, especially when lots of time has passed. I understand why some celebrate Emma saying ILY at the portal and others aren’t phased by it because she does love him but it could be closure and not that she’s in love with him and will never love again. Everyone has a different filter and I understand both arguments as she does love him (& H&K remind us of this a lot).
I’ll agree that Neal has a huge mixed bag of emotions and has put himself into a rotten place. He didn’t believe that Emma could forgive him and right when he was about to have a chance to try and fix things he chose to move on. Regardless of his reasons or lack of confidence, he didn’t choose to go after Emma and he didn’t say he loved her until after Tamara was an option so I feel like from EMMA’s point of view after that, he chose Tamara over her – against his real feelings but in that case the situation was bad for all three of them.
I get why he did it and that there are definitely a lot of emotions involved in all of it. I guess I’m mostly disappointed because he learned from Rumple’s mistakes but not Milah’s. He wants to be a better father to Henry because his wasn’t good, but he knew centuries ago that Milah regretted leaving him and never did anything about it. The fact that he did that to someone and chose not to do anything about it when he knows exactly how much it hurts grates me. He had the option, he was reminded of the option, and he chose to walk away.
In not going after her because he was afraid, he didn’t take into account her feelings and wonder how much damage he had done to her. Even if she hated him when she saw him again and asked him to leave after explaining why he did so, they could have found closure on what happened – he would have had a chance to get it off his chest why he let her go and she would have found out what really happened. He clearly knew that finding her family was important to her and he wanted her to have that. That explanation would have been fine if he did that the moment he could.
The fact that it took her finding him I think is what bugs her the most. She wouldn’t have ever gotten that closure. He may have been fine to never try to go after her and live in his misery and try to make a life with Tamara instead, but he didn’t try to give Emma the peace of mind about what really happened either. It’s not fun to confront someone when you’re expecting them to hate you, but he did have good reasons for what he did and he should have at least tried to put himself in her shoes, especially knowing what it felt like – and he had centuries to remember his mother choosing not to take him with her.
Which is what brings me back to the conversation in Manhattan where he did tell her what happened with Pinocchio but still wanted her to go and quickly so that Rumple wouldn’t find him. I suppose at this point he had already made up his mind about not going to find her and had chosen to move on and I commend him for sticking to that even though Tamara is EVIL, but he didn’t even confirm that he loved her too back then but just felt that it was the right thing to do, even when she told him how much it hurt because she loved him so much (and she was so obviously hurt and pouring out her heart about her feelings from back then and he never backed that up).
Again, I do appreciate that he was in a bad place and didn’t think he had a shot but it’s that lack of faith in them as a couple that is so infuriating to me. Other couples on the show have proven to us that they would do whatever it takes for the ones they love, where he continues to leave (or sacrifice himself in some way) absolutely everyone. It’s all he knows and he hasn’t had the best role models, but every time someone offers him a family, he ends up leaving it one way or another. It makes sense that he was trying to hold on to Tamara, especially since had promised her everything he’s always wanted and up to that point she hadn’t done anything wrong. He certainly couldn’t see Emma’s jealousy and then kick Tamara to the curb. It’s the lack of faith in the first place that upsets me.
Emma has a hard time letting anyone in because she’s been abandoned and it took her a long time with Snowing but she got there so there’s definitely hope. I think one of the uphill climbs will be that she IS back around Snowing. She knows their story and saw them fight (and continue to fight) to be together no matter what. Charming’s “What’s 28 years when you have eternal love?” and “I will always find you” and watching her parents fight SO hard to be together makes anybody who hasn’t fought pale in comparison. Whether that’s fair or not doesn’t change the fact that that’s what she’s seeing in front of her. She’s surrounded by and is the product of TL and sees how it works and in some aspects, it’s the exact opposite of her relationship with Neal.
David screwed up but got his Charming memories back right before leaving town. He could have sat there and said “well, Snow will never forgive me for the Kathryn/Abigail thing, better leave now” and instead chose to have *faith* and *trust* in their relationship and that they could overcome anything. Emma witnessed all of this. She even says way back in 1×06 “It’s one thing to say that he wants you but it’s another to actually make a choice.” Emma fights for those she loves, just like Charming does, and I think she’ll have a hard time accepting this so quickly with him saying that he was too afraid to try so just didn’t. That’s not how real, true love looks to her at this point in her life because she’s seen it and knows what it can be.
She’s had her moments of weakness and almost leaving (just like Charming and Hook and Neal) but the difference is that Charming got to the edge of town and Emma got to the edge of town and Hook had his ship almost out of sight but they all came back and fought for Snow and Henry and Hook came back to help save a town full of people who hated and betrayed him (on behalf of Emma and Bae). Neal knew when he could come back and fight for it when Emma would have her family back and everything would be alright and he chose not to – that is a stark difference for me.
Charming had no problem waiting 28 years, Hook’s been waiting centuries to avenge the woman he loved and was fine with waiting the 28 years in that dome thing Cora put up, and Neal had to wait what, 12? and chose not to try to make it work. Emma’s been fighting for family her whole life and has finally found it and will now fight for them no matter what. All Neal had of family at this point was Emma and the dream of the life they wanted to have together and promised her that dream and then left (for good reasons) and never went back when it was safe to do so and explain that. Choosing to stay with Tamara is admirable because he did promise her a life too, but that was giving up on the dream of the life he promised to Emma from before – a dream that left her searching for him for 2 years in Tallahassee.
Emma fought tooth and nail for Henry to save him. She told Rumple that she would go even farther than it takes because that’s who she is, she fights and fights hard no matter what. I’m not sure if she’s wired to understand people who walk away when they say they want something, especially knowing what it feels like to be abandoned. In fact I think it hurts her more because one of the things that really tied her with Neal is the fact that they were both abandoned and wanted to save each other from being alone. To have someone who knows what it feels like do that to her was excruciating and the last straw before her walls went up. It seemed, (from the brief highlight reel that we got in Tallahassee) that she opened up to him fairly quickly and I’m sure that common bond was a huge part of it. That would have been a huge slap in the face, regardless of the reasons, but the reasons would have helped. That quote to MM from back in S1 about wanting something vs choosing to do something about it speaks volumes to me about Emma’s character which is why I have trouble believing she’d be so OK with this so quickly *at this point.*
My point about being 2nd choice is that I agree on Neal’s side that Emma was his first choice, but he gave up on that first choice, moved on to choice #2 and choice #2 is what Emma is seeing in front of her. She’s seeing Neal side with Tamara on everything, even though she thinks he’s lying to her about never believing in her lying ability. If Emma truly thinks that Neal did believe in her ability, and she did call him out on that, then she is left with knowing he knows he should side with her and at least question it and is choosing to defend Tamara to the bitter end and ignore everything he ever knew or trusted of Emma. WE know that he didn’t really have a choice but this is all that Emma sees and that’s gotta hurt. So I didn’t really mean that Emma IS the second choice, but that she may feel like it even if she does believe he cared about her the whole time. His actions speak differently.
I realize there wasn’t a lot of time between finding out that Tamara was up to no good and the ILYs since the two events happened back to back thanks to the portal. I do however feel that it rushed everything and there wasn’t a lot of build up to that moment. There was obvious jealousy along the way, but as much as Emma waits til the last second to declare feelings, it still seemed VERY rushed to me for SF given that it was immediately after Neal’s relationship with Tamara ended (and very badly and not by Neal’s choice). I didn’t see that coming and felt a lack of build up to make that moment really payoff and seem legitimate for the people they are today and not just the idea of what they once were. If anything it felt more like closure than the start of something, especially since they both basically acknowledged the idea he was about to die. It felt like they were finally BOTH admitting that they felt something for each other once and this was their goodbye, without having to address any of the issues along the way because they did genuinely have feelings and it was nice to finally hear him say that he felt that way too.
I’m sure it will be brought up to help them move forward when he returns because he’ll use that to point out she should go easier on him, like he did with the necklace (and we still haven’t seen one word about the car *shakes head*) so it’ll be a starting point, but I don’t think things will be swept under the rug as quickly once it’s clear he’s alive and well. She’ll be happy to see him, but so far her main concern has been zeroed in on Henry (how to tell him about Neal, and then him being kidnapped) and that takes priority over any romantic feelings (and she’s excellent at pushing anything emotional to the side indefinitely).
I’m really really hopeful that we see him fighting really hard to come after her and get back to his family and that it makes me want to root for him with her more. I like the character and have hope for him, my issues truly just stem around his relationship with Emma. The only time I’ve ever felt like he actually fought for her was when he went back to the apartment and interrupted Rumple. He did have a sword and fight side by side with her in Gold’s shop, but he jumped out of the way and Charming jumped in front of Emma when a fireball was thrown her way.
I’m not sure how many obstacles they can endure when everything so far was mostly against the things that Emma seems to need in her life as it stands today (her needs were very different as a teenager). Their relationship in the past was sweet, but I feel like they’re different people now and the Emma that we’ve gotten to know over the last couple of seasons isn’t the same girl she was when she was with Neal. At times I feel like Emma would be reverting when she’s so awesome as the person she is now. When Emma thought about running away from all the craziness in SB, MM said the following in 1×21: “And running is what’s best for him [Henry]? Or is that what’s best for you? You’re reverting, Emma, into the person you were before you got here; and I thought you’d changed.” Which to me says “I thought you were better than that and you’re just becoming the person you were before” and that’s basically how I feel *currently* going back to Neal without much fuss would come across. It’s a sweet story if they can find their way back, I just need it to be realistic. The real world is not a fairy tale and Emma spent 99% of her life in the real world. Her life is not as cut & dried as some of the others are.
They also seem to me to want different things other than to be in Henry’s life and I really do believe that they are different people now and need to learn to co-exist for Henry’s sake. Maybe there will be something more and maybe there won’t. Right now for me, they still love each other and a part of them always will, I’m just not sure it’s really past the *idea* of loving each other at this point – and trust me, the idea of loving someone hurts just as much and feels just as real at the time. Emma thinking he’s dead may lighten her up a bit on some of these things, especially the stuff prior to Manhattan. With her walls up though, mostly because of him, I don’t see her forgetting everything else, especially after what Tamara almost did to the town and has now done to her son. It’s gotta hurt her that of all the people he could move on with to replace her while saying he was in love with her the whole time, it had to be Tamara.
They have an uphill climb but it’s certainly not impossible. I think Emma has gotten closure on the past stuff and it’s more present day that will be an issue. I agree with H&K that they do still have feelings for each and I really feel that a part of Emma will always love Neal no matter what which is why he was so influential on her. I don’t see that going away, especially with him being Henry’s father. I just also don’t see that as confirmation yet that he’s her true love and they’re meant to be together. The show has proven that Henry needs his entire dysfunctional family and contrary to some opinions, that Henry needs all of them including both Emma AND Regina. (I can’t stand the argument that they have to be together for Henry’s sake – be in love for being in love’s sake, not because Henry exists, that’s not healthy for anyone. Likewise, Emma grew up in the real world and with that in mind, Henry is super lucky to have everyone in his life to begin with, considering how much they hate each other. The fact that his parents are at least currently separated but both in his life and willing to work together on his behalf is more than most kids in the real world get so hopefully, even if it stays that way, he will learn to be satisfied with that as it it may be all that Emma has to offer him).
I have faith in the writers that with more screentime, the more we know the better I’ll like them. They’ve set up a great triangle and I see compelling arguments for both sides and it should be interesting to watch it play out. I’d like to think that at the end, we’ll all be able to root for Emma’s true love story because it will be epic and beautiful and shown to us enough that it’s obvious and none of these lingering issues remain and I think that will be the case. I truly do see the appeal of both sides, I just have a preference that is somewhat unpopular around here.
So glad we can have these civil debates though. I’m sick of being lumped in with airheads that just think Colin is hotter than MRJ and therefore can’t imagine him with anyone other than Emma *eye roll* (We all have our reasons to ship and I can’t stand superficial reasons – I don’t just love CS because I have issues with SF and therefore need someone else for Emma to be with. Likewise, I don’t ship Neal off just to get rid of him to pave a path for CS to happen. I like having backups just in case so I don’t get my hopes up too high, and I ship because I see potential and loveliness in something with actual reasons, not for my health – and certainly not to be constantly attacked for loving something. Believe me, it would be much easier if I were madly in love with SF!)
The Snowing/Abigail triangle was obvious, the MAP triangle *should* be obvious as a TLK woke Aurora up etc. It seems odd to me that if we’re supposed to be rooting for SF to get back together and watch them overcome obstacles like the other “set in stone” couples that have also been in triangles, that they would put such a great option in there that has lots of potential and make people fall in love with the pairing only to ditch it because Neal’s “alive” – which frankly isn’t a reason – but since they like to throw curveballs I really just don’t know (and contrary to some opinions, nobody else knows either except for H&K).
Emma’s is the one love story that we can see play out and not officially know who it will be because we haven’t grown up knowing her story. I certainly don’t think either side of the triangle is delusional and (sadly) both sides have reason to have high hopes which means some will be very hurt in the end. I hope eventually that they all find happiness and that fans of both men will be happy with who they end up with (as difficult as it is to imagine at the moment).
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@AngieBelle wrote:
They are still in love. The only reason they aren’t still together at this point is because Emma thinks Neal is dead. I don’t mean to offend CSers- only expressing that I’m truly surprised.
Whether or not Swanfire end up together in the longrun, though, their relationship is still a big part of the overall story arc of the series.
I appreciate that Angie & I don’t take offense to it at all.
I agree that their relationship is a very important part of the show – it accounts for why Emma is who she is today and affects every relationship she’s had since then.
I will argue the first point though. We know they still love each other. They have feelings left over after years of deep wounds. Emma’s every relationship since then has suffered because of it. She didn’t understand why she was left, just that the person she believed in most let her down. She has heard the reasons since then.
However, I can’t say for sure that they are currently IN love. Yes they said they loved each other but they didn’t say they were in love now, nor have they actually been a couple for the last 12 or so years.
In fact, up until the moment before Tamara shot him, Neal was still defending her, saying he loved her and needed her, even acknowledging that Emma was hurt by this. He chose Tamara until she was no longer an option – the moment he found out it was all a lie.
Regardless of how much he wished to return to Emma, he never chose to (much like Milah wanting to go back and get him every day but never doing it). In fact he chose the opposite – in Manhattan when she told him how much it hurt because she loved him, he never even said he loved her back then too. His attitude in that scene bothered me because he basically just asked her to leave after we knew he was distraught over giving her up in the first place. He asked her to go so that he wouldn’t have to deal with Rumple, and said that he would never have had anything to do with her if he had known she was from FTL.
This is all Emma has to go on: the man she loved, and trusted more than anyone betrayed her (though she now knows the reasons), chose not to come after her and fight for her to believe he had the best of intentions and that he always loved her, and chose to move on with someone else. We know that Neal knew when the curse would be broken, and that he was reminded of this by August shortly before August arrived in SB himself. It was a very short waiting period at that point, a few months if that, and he still fell for and planned a life with Tamara who he chose up until the end.
Emma is a very different person from the girl she was all those years ago and I would assume Neal is different too. Could they find their way back to each other? Yes. Do they love each other? Sure. We know he didn’t want to give her up and we know that she loved him and a part of her always will: he was her first love and the father of her son. But we also know that he has an issue with anything relating to FTL and magic & Emma’s life very much includes that at the moment. (I think this is lessened by his desire to be in Henry’s life, just saying it’s a big obstacle like all the rest).
Can I *definitively* say that without working out their issues and without getting to know each other as the people they are today (especially since Emma is strong and independent now and has a lot of walls up) that all of that will just melt away and they are 100% still IN love right now? I just don’t feel comfortable saying that at this point. With all the lies and the fact that Emma doesn’t really know the real Neal at all, they have a long way to go. I’m not sure if it can be real when the person you think you’re in love with doesn’t actually exist. Also not sure how much of a crash-course in Baelfire she’s had since then and they haven’t really talked and gotten to know each other much as the people they are now (a lot can change in over a decade – remembering feelings of a high school sweetheart can change when you spend a few minutes with them at a reunion).
If Neal hadn’t waited to tell Emma he loved her until he thought he was dying, AND until after the woman he was going to build a life with was no longer an option, then perhaps I would feel differently. If Tamara had never been in the picture and the residual feelings were just as obvious and he wasn’t making Emma feel like a 2nd choice? I’d feel TONS better about it. But the fact remains that he did that.
I’m trying to look at this purely from an Emma standpoint: they haven’t been together in years, she went to jail for his crimes, he explained why but then moved on and defended this person he claimed to love and need so much…and not only was it someone that was replacing Emma in his life, it’s also the person who tried to kill him, send him through a portal, and kidnap their son to take him to Neverland and hand him over to PP. If I were Emma, I’d be even MORE hurt about what just happened than about the earlier stuff which is explained away under the “for the greater good” clause. Emma is very much a person who fights for what she loves (in fact, she fought for him to stay with her and ended up in jail because she didn’t want to let him leave her all alone when he ran off to Canada).
So when Neal does come back, they MAY be able to work through things and get past it. I’m not saying it absolutely won’t happen and be endgame just like I am acknowledging that they do have a very important relationship in the show. What I am saying is that I can’t buy that they are “in love” right now because that just makes Emma look like a cheap 2nd choice – she always should have been 1st and was until he chose to defend Tamara and insist on marrying her and bringing her to SB etc etc, rubbing Emma’s face in his new relationship. He can say he always loved her but he didn’t act like that. Not only does she have to buy that and forgive it for all the time they were apart. She now has to believe that, knowing he chose Tamara in front of her (and of all people too).
If they’re reunited and she just falls into his arms and wipes everything under the rug and they’re just madly in love I’d feel cheated out of their redemption story because it is unrealistic to think that after all of that pain and torment Emma has been through because of Neal, and now directly because of his fiancee, that she’s sitting there thinking “I’m so in love with this guy” right now. Was she? Yes. Can she be again? Possibly. Is she right this very second? If she is it’s only because she thinks he’s dead and it has made her temporarily forget all of the other stuff and remember what it was like to be young and in love with him…but she isn’t that teenage girl anymore.
So that is why I take issue with them being included on such a short list of couples when other proven TL couples aren’t on the list. I take no issue with CS being excluded (for now) and others that haven’t been shown as couples either. I just think that if we’re going to narrow it down to current couples, we can’t include one who 2 mins before he thought he was going to die, was still defending his fiancee. So the way I see it is that they haven’t actually been a couple for ~12 years. Can that change when he gets back? Yes. Immediately? No.
I hope I haven’t offended anybody. I’m sure it will rub SF fans the wrong way. I’m just attempting to explain why I personally don’t feel like they should currently be included in a shortlist of couples who are currently couples / have been proven as TL. I’m not excluding their importance or any possibility for the future.
Ultimately I’d like to see Emma happy and have her make a choice as she is very big on that. So I don’t take offense to the CS comment other than I’d like to think that if CS does happen it won’t simply be that “well she thought Neal was dead” – there’s so much more potential there that it would be a slap in the face to any CS fan were that to be the case. The idea is kinda sickening actually, that the only reason someone else has a shot is because he’s “dead” when there are plenty of other reasons that Emma could choose to look at, but I understand that her residual feelings and not having tons of closure make it difficult for her to move on at all, where thinking he’s dead may help her do that. I just don’t see it as the only reason she would ever go for someone who isn’t him after what she’s been through.
As it stands right now, I think seeing Neal again has given Emma some closure on the PAST issues – she’s heard that Pinocchio was at fault, she’s heard him say that he loves her and regretted it every day, but she hasn’t SEEN that from him in present day yet. I’d love for him to actually fight to get back to her for once and show that he’s learned from his mistakes. Do I think she will get closer to Hook right now on their quest to save Henry? Yes, but that is because the focus is on saving Henry.
Any trust that is built up there will definitely fuel the triangle and eventually Emma will have to choose, but I don’t think it’ll just be because Neal is “dead”. After all she met Hook before Neal came back into her life and they’re already kindred spirits. If she were just going to NL now and meeting Hook there I’d say there’s a point. But she wanted to trust Hook when they were up the beanstalk and was too afraid to trust her instincts because of her past with Neal. It didn’t stop her from starting something with Graham, nor did it stop her from bonding with Hook along the way to the point where she’s the only one that can get to him and he already reads her like an open book.
Hence a triangle is born.
I hope I haven’t offended anyone (especially Angie since she had such a lovely comment!) – I’m simply disagreeing on some of the finer points because there are a lot of other reasons that they’re not currently together right now. If Tamara hadn’t sent Neal through a portal I don’t think they’d be together right now either. They’d be looking for Henry together yes, but he JUST broke up with Tamara (or rather, she just informed him that their love was all a lie). If Emma were in a relationship with him right this moment I’d be rather disappointed in her because I love her character and she’s better than that & deserves better than to be treated that way.
I hope that answered some of the questions about why it’s such a surprise that CS fans would see it that way. While I have a preference I’m open to whatever they throw at us and I try my best to look at it objectively. There would be no point in holding out hope for a couple (and getting lots of hate for it) if it wasn’t at least mildly realistic and if SF is ever proven to me then I’ll have to take CS off the table and just reminisce about the missed potential – just as I’m sure any SF would have to do if the reverse happens.
To each their own. I love my Oncer friends even when we don’t agree and I hope that I was able to answer that question in as nice a way as possible without bashing or spewing hatred. I like Neal. He’s growing on me and I certainly have hope for him in the future. Not sure I’m ready to buy into his relationship with Emma because they have a lot of baggage, but my issues with Neal only relate to his relationship with Emma. I adore young Bae and have hope for Neal in the future so please don’t take this as bashing. I love everyone (ok, minus GOAT) and want them all to find happiness, truly!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@HappyEndings wrote:
@HappyEndings wrote:
Here is the link: http://www.eonline.com/news/429281/once-upon-a-time-bosses-dish-on-peter-pan-and-season-3-s-epic-adventure-we-re-the-dysfunctional-avengers
Here it is or on the 1st page of the orginal post
That’s still a link to the article itself and not the confirmation that it was misquoted. People in the comment section keep saying that she confirmed she added words somewhere but that’s what we were looking for: her other comments on twitter saying that the article was wrong, not the article itself.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
Oh good. Now that the proof is here…move on?
I’d love to but I’m still not seeing the proof. Just because people are commenting on the article doesn’t mean that the tweet has been shown yet. I hate to think somebody would make that up but since some people are intent on ruining things for others…
So am I missing it or was that just a link to the article again?
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@Josephine wrote:
I’ve learned not to listen to Kristen through the years. Wetpaint will also write anything without facts. TVLine is usually the only I take seriously. Michael Ausiello is usually spot on with his spoilers and rarely incorrect.
I’m not obsessing about Emma’s love life. I hate triangles so I’m not going to like whatever they do. I think I’m coming from it from a different place. In my opinion, she shouldn’t be getting with anyone. Her son is in danger and his father just “died”, and they’re all in turmoil. I know everyone grieves differently, but I think jumping into any type of relationship right now is not something that should happen. It’s just one of those storylines I know I’m not going to like, but there is so much more going on with the show that it won’t affect my tv viewing. Kind of like when I used to tape soap opera’s as a teenager and watch them after school…I’d fast forward through the characters I disliked. 😉 Of course, I’m not going to do that here because so much is integrated plot wise, but not everyone can like everything that ever goes on with your favorite show.
Agreed on most points.
I get why they’re teasing it so much because Emma will be on the same ship as Hook and she does think Neal is dead right now, but let’s face it: Emma has her priorities and right now that’s Henry. Will she be having interaction with Hook that may lead to her feeling closer to him and trusting him right around the time Neal comes back? Sure. Is Emma going to be jumping into a relationship with Hook in NL instead of focusing on trying to get Henry back? Um…have you met Emma? Cause I’m thinking NO. They may have their moments like the last adventure they were on together, but Emma will definitely be focused on one thing: getting Henry back. I certainly don’t see her jumping into something with Hook to help her grieve Neal and ignoring the fact that her son is out there. She fights for people she loves and that will be her priority.
They tease the triangle because of the shippers and I get that, but really, can’t you just see Emma pushing all of it (and both guys) to the side instead of actually dealing with her feelings anyway, even once Henry is safe and everyone is reunited? If she feels remotely torn between them at all, she’ll shut it all out like she did with Snowing in the beginning of S2 (and like she pushed Graham aside when she didn’t want to talk about his thing with Regina because it hurt too much to think about) and want to go focus on whatever the next catastrophic event is going on instead of dealing with her feelings for whomever. She is Emma and she has walls!
I wish everyone could agree but nobody is ever going to be 100% happy with everything on the show because we all want different things and that is perfectly OK. As long as we remember we’re all Oncers and everybody loves something and somebody will always get hurt by it and even if we’re a little upset with the show sometimes it’s still a million times better than not having the show to begin with, we will be fine.
I’ll agree on the Ausiello thing. Even with his very leading questions the other day he at least immediately acknowledged that in the comment section and cleared everything right up. Since this isn’t the first time people have had issues with Kristin (and don’t get me started on WetPaint and their editorializing of EVERYTHING), I’m inclined to agree that we need to pay closer attention to the source and take everything we can’t see and hear for ourselves with a grain of salt. :S
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI’m STILL looking for the link to it (after throwing many tantrums at how ridiculously bad the wording was on that because it makes NO sense for them to tease a triangle and appease everyone over the hiatus to then make it SO obvious what they were planning on doing).
I’ve seen many places say that she confirmed it on twitter but either I’m looking at the wrong person or she has since deleted it. That being said, she is notorious (apparently, or so I’m learning) for adding her own bias into things and not necessarily actually quoting. THIS bugs me more than anything on principle because rule #1 is don’t put quotes around it if it’s not an actual quote! Leave the paraphrasing for your article so I can figure out what is real and what isn’t!
I’m hoping that Adam tweets about it at some point and clarifies (he often does this by saying somebody misspoke or was misquoted) but I can’t really take anything she says for what it is because I can’t believe in her quotes. =/
I was really happy for everyone that got something good out of it (even though it directly conflicted with what they’ve been saying for ages and made me want to throw things) but until I actually hear one of them say something as MAJOR as that in an interview before showing it on screen I’m gonna have to take it with a grain of salt. I realllly don’t think they’d be stupid enough to do that though and apparently Kristin has a history with saying oh this will never happen or that is sure to happen and then low and behold, she’s proven wrong because she inserted her own bias into it.
What I’m guessing happened is that she just put the “s in the wrong place. I can picture them saying they’re having fun with the dynamics of Emma being on the ship with Hook and I’m pretty sure we’ve heard them say recently something about Emma thinking Neal is dead, so it feels like she just took that quote and forgot to put a LOT of stuff in brackets to show it was what she thought was being talked about.
Every ounce of me is screaming at this article as a whole simply because she doesn’t know how to properly quote things. If that was an actual quote there are so many things wrong with it and I wonder what he would have had to be on to slip up THAT much and give away major plot points when they’ve been pretty good at teasing and being secretive about most things. I would think since they keep NOT shutting down various couplings for Emma that it would be beyond idiotic to outright say who she’ll end up with before a season has even begun, not to mention that it would completely cancel out the whole triangle they’ve been promoting.
Hopefully somebody can find the actual “confirmation” because it’s been getting around that it exists but I haven’t actually seen it yet and would feel a lot better about the show in general if that particular quote wasn’t actually a quote – not because I don’t want to have to give up on my ship, but because I just can’t fathom them blowing it by saying that much so early and cancelling out the point of presumably the first half of the season. My brain is exploding just trying to imagine him actually having said that and meaning it in the way that I’m sure it’s being taken.
I swear with these 2 we need to HEAR them say something, not just read it in print. Meanings can change vastly and it’s hard to tell what’s serious, what’s them having a little fun, and what is so far out of context it never actually existed in the first place.
*Crossing my fingers that more responsible journalism happens closer to S3* I know we’re all grasping at straws and going absolutely bonkers over the hiatus, but regardless of what anybody, even H&K say in these “interviews,” we’re gonna have to wait and see what actually plays out on screen for any of it to count. Apparently Kristin in particular has been proven to be very very wrong in the past (somebody mentioned a show I don’t watch but something about saying 2 people would never hook up and then the characters did so people were very misled and surprised/annoyed and her and with good reason).
Believe me I was screaming at Eddy in my head (in a MOFFATTTT voice if anybody gets that reference) and then once I calmed down a bit I realized how absolutely idiotic it would have been for him to have said all of that together (sometimes quotes are taken from multiple places and smashed together too) but to word in such a way. He is happy to point out that Emma does have feelings for Neal and they have a past and a son and it would be silly for anybody to think that at least a part of her doesn’t love him. Nobody discounts that, including CS shippers like myself.
Frankly I expect better of them since they’re so good at driving us crazy with cryptic quotes so I’m erring on the side of caution now that I’ve been informed on a lot of stuff regarding Kristin and her “spoilers” / bias, and hopefully we see confirmation / better wording and more importantly, better journalism in the future.
I rely on the source material and most articles I only look at the actual quotes rather than the writer’s interpretation around that so this REALLY irks me. How can I trust in my sources if they’re putting words in their mouths and lying about it with ” marks??? >.<
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantCan somebody post a link to the one of him chomping on the little crocodile? (Don’t get me wrong, I love Rumple too, but it’s adorable that people keep giving Colin crocodiles and that big grin while chomping on the little thing makes for a very cute pic!) Apparently a group of girls gave him a little crocodile too, with a name tag on it saying Rumplestiltskin. People were trying to drag him away but he insisted on going through the crowd to thank them for the present and posed for a picture. He. Is. Wonderful! (And not hard on the eyes either 😉 – his brother isn’t too bad looking either if you find a link to that one. He’s bald but they look very similar feature-wise). Trusting my fellow Colin fans to find good links to these things but I know they exist as I saw them somewhere earlier (whyyy did I not link them then *blames Colin’s gorgeousness for being distracted*)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@Jasminegirl84 wrote:
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
Yeah I saw that too and people have had bad history with Kristin because her stuff usually doesn’t come about the way she thought it did. It bugs me that she puts her bias into quotes though…don’t put quotes around it if they didn’t actually say that! PARAPHRASE. Research 101 people. *grr*
Also…even though people keep saying she confirmed that Eddy didn’t actually say that…I can’t find it anywhere! Has anybody actually SEEN the tweet confirming this??
Can’t seem to find the tweet, but, I agree. I hate when she puts her biases into her quotes. I am surprised she hasn’t been reprimanded for that yet. That really bugs me not as a CSer, but just the principle of it. I can see why celebrities get so frustrated with sloppy journalists who misquote them or take quotes out of context. smh
Exactly! I’m angry on principle more than anything. I rely on people to use the actual quotes so that I can focus on that part of an article instead of the jibberish in between that is obviously skewed however they want it to be. It’s bad enough when quotes are out of context but to actually pretend they said something else entirely is absurd & wrong on so many levels, not only to the person who said it but to the fans, no matter what it’s about. Ugh!
As for this tweet, either somebody made it up or she deleted it fast cause I still have not seen anything about it (though it doesn’t surprise me at all given her track record).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantYeah I saw that too and people have had bad history with Kristin because her stuff usually doesn’t come about the way she thought it did. It bugs me that she puts her bias into quotes though…don’t put quotes around it if they didn’t actually say that! PARAPHRASE. Research 101 people. *grr*
Also…even though people keep saying she confirmed that Eddy didn’t actually say that…I can’t find it anywhere! Has anybody actually SEEN the tweet confirming this??
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantWell I WAS having an excellent day pouring over Colin pics from Monte Carlo, then I just read a new article teasing S3 and Eddy’s recent comment did not make me very happy. Not at all. I just tweeted Adam asking if there was a chance he misspoke or was misquoted or something but ugh…
“It’s fun for us to have Emma on that ship with someone as handsome as Hook thinking the person she truly loves is dead, while he’s trying to get back to her,” Kitsis teases.
…what the heck is that about???
Rest of the article can be seen here: http://www.eonline.com/news/429281/once-upon-a-time-bosses-dish-on-peter-pan-and-season-3-s-epic-adventure-we-re-the-dysfunctional-avengers?cmpid=sn-000000-twitterfeed-365-kristin&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitterfeed_kristin&dlvrit=51396
*screams & throws something*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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