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June 12, 2013 at 10:20 pm in reply to: "OUAT creators promise to ‘tame the beast’ next season" #198135MysteryKat25Participant
@HappyEndings wrote:
Thanks for sharing
I get my tough Snow back from FL finally yea!!!!!
I can’t wait to see Bandit!Snow again. She’s awesome and I have missed her. Wouldn’t mind Sword-Wielding!Charming again either. 😉
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@Jasminegirl84 wrote:
Anybody seeing the crazy hotness all over tumblr today? I smell a Colin O’Pocalypse brewing… 😆 I’m in such a happy place right now…
Heading over there right now! I could use it.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantOooo, I don’t always make the connection if the names are different. All I saw was Phee thanking the person whose name I saw on twitter for asking.
Either way I’m glad we have clarification for it all so we don’t bash our heads in trying to figure out how to connect her to everything else. Adam needs to be more careful, making us jump to conclusions like that! As much as I would have liked to see her in it, I can’t wait til we get actual casting news. Ahh!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantForgot to add:
Phillip & Aurora who were also proven as TL because of the sleeping curse
Abigail & Frederick who, according to the official podcast are off together being happy much like…
Cinderella & ThomasAgain I love the idea of looking at just the actual ships on the show and not all the crackships people love (FrankenWolf anyone?) but I think we have to tread carefully.
Some I know do feel that SF is endgame but that doesn’t mean they’re a couple *right now*.
Conversely, the definition of “canon” is apparently up for debate. I agree within the show that anyone proven as TL is canon: IE: Snowing, RumBelle, Cinderella/Thomas, Phillip/Aurora. Not sure about the “will never change” aspect of the definition because some couples are canon in that they were together on the show for however long, though that may change (with the exception of anyone proven as TL).
Again, LOVE the idea and as a CaptainSwan person I am not upset that they’re not included (though I hope someday they will be eligible). Emma’s TL won’t be proven for some time and until then we’ll just have to wait. I do agree that SwanFire were “legitimately” a couple on the show because their history has shown us that. Wouldn’t argue that for a second.
I’m just not sure I’d narrow the list down to couples who are currently together & “legitimate” and only include these 3 because 1 doesn’t fit (YET, it did in the past but they’ve since gone their separate ways, lingering feelings aside) and a couple of others who have been forgotten about. (Again I don’t know that they’d get any votes, but they still technically are eligible to).
So the only slight I’m seeing here is actually for anybody who loves the side couples who have been proven as TL (and again I’m not sure how many votes Philora or Cinderella/Thomas would actually get). So it’s not really a slight to CS except that it’s once again saying something has been proven for Emma when it hasn’t but they have at least been shown as a couple in the past so I give it a *tiny* bit of leeway (especially because I accept your apology and never thought you were trying to kick CaptainSwan fans to the curb at all). I’m a bit surprised that some still don’t at least expect CS to happen or see it coming, but I do appreciate that many do love SF and want to see them get back together and that because they were once a couple, it comes across *right now* as being more “legitimate.”
Anything that puts ships up against each other is tough because it does require categorization or you get tons of ships involved with little to no basis for them to be there and it can be frustrating watching polls and knowing that a ship with a real chance is being beaten out by a ship where nothing has ever shown even the slightest possibility of being real so I do like the idea of taking a step back and looking only at what we’ve been shown. There are definitely more than 2 established, canon, TL couples though even though Snowing & RumBelle reign supreme – and with good reason ;))
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI get why it might be convoluted to the casual viewer who doesn’t agonize over every detail like we do. I have a few people I know who watch it and then come to me to remind them of things that we already knew or explain why so and so is upset with such and such etc. Most don’t devote the time we do to it but it makes it really fun to be able to talk to someone after the episode and be reminded of all that stuff and sometimes they ask questions that we either didn’t think to ask because we were zoomed so far in on the details that we forgot the bigger picture, or they remind us of something we just skipped over.
Perhaps those who do find it too convoluted and don’t have the time to devote to it are also ones who don’t have a place to go (like here) or people to talk to in the real world about the show and are more likely to throw in the towel. I love catching up with casual viewers I’ve gotten hooked on it, they always have interesting things to add.
I hope that with word of mouth the show will continue to grow (I know Netflix helped tons last year), and that once S2 hits Netflix more people will get into it, especially knowing that S3 scheduling will be tons better. (I dread the thought of winter & summer hiatus but love the back to back episode chunks). I really think it’ll go back up next year. *fingers crossed*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI voted for RumBelle even though I also adore Snowing but I too have an issue with the term “legitimate” because technically that would include anyone ever shown as a couple on the show or vice versa, only those proven as true love. It *seems* like the 2nd option was chosen since the the others that RG listed weren’t included and that’s fine, but in that case SF needs to be taken off the list simply because a) they are not currently a couple and haven’t been for what, 12 years? and b) it hasn’t been proven as true love in any way as of YET like Snowing & RumBelle has.
As of right now I understand what you’re trying to do and as a huge CaptainSwan person I am NOT upset because they haven’t been shown to be the level of canon needed to be added to the list (ie: a kiss as you mentioned). However there are other couples that have kissed and do have feelings for each other (Grumpy/Nova for instance) that we haven’t gotten to explore more of but I don’t feel like all of those couples should be ignored when SF gets to be included. Not to mention that Cinderella & her prince ARE canon & together off being happy and they weren’t included either. (I presume most would vote for Snowing or RumBelle still, but if we’re going off of canon couples who are actually together, then Cinderella/Thomas would fit better *CURRENTLY* than SwanFire – that is not a slight to SF, they may end up there eventually, just saying if we’re narrowing it down to couples currently together, others fit that better).
So I’m not upset my favorite option isn’t there and I was really excited to see somebody tackle an actual canon coupling poll (though I do hope other options get added to that category in the future). I’m just a little disappointed because I’m not clear on what terms were used, simply because the categorization doesn’t make sense.
I know this started a HUGE fiasco in a livechat one day when someone asked if SF had been proven as true love YET and the fact remains that they haven’t, YET. Henry hasn’t been proven to be magical/product of true love status like Emma, we don’t know if his heart can be taken etc etc and Emma and/or Neal have not been put under a sleeping curse only being able to be woken by each other. Nothing has been PROVEN like it has with RumBelle & Snowing.
So I love the idea, in theory – and I’m not upset about the shipping wars in this particular instance. All I’m saying is I don’t feel like they should have been included because they are not a couple *right now* and if that’s the criteria then all former couples should have been included as well. So I sincerely hope that people continue voting Snowing or RumBelle to make this more “legitimate” because I am curious about what people think about the actual couples we’ve seen on the show and not just all the possibilities people come up with.
Please don’t let this deter you from participating in the forums and having fun with any of it. I applaud the effort, I really do. I just ask that the criteria for a poll that is likely to get heated because of shipper bias have very specific criteria or include more options (however unlikely it is for them to get votes) that fit said criteria instead of including half of a triangle that doesn’t really fit (YET).
Again, has nothing to do with being a CS fan. If you had included them I’d have said I’d love them to be canon but so far they’re not. Not bashing SF, they just haven’t earned their spot if this is a TL poll, and if it’s just any ship in the fandom that has been shown as being an actual couple for however long, then there are a lot of other options that should have been included (Cinderella/Thomas, Regina/Daniel, Grumpy/Nova, etc etc – if we’re only counting those still together, then Cinderella/Thomas should have been added & SwanFire removed – again, for NOW, I’m not saying they won’t make it back there someday, it’s possible).
Just my 2 cents. Sorry for the over-clarification on stuff but it’s not that I don’t want SF, I just don’t think they have earned their spot in canon couples still together, which is apparently what this poll is for, in which case please add to the list.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
I’m actually fairly certain that is Kranen, who started this topic…
Phee meant who asked the question on twitter & got Carly & Adam to respond, giving us clarification so we don’t spend weeks trying to fit her into the OUAT world when she isn’t a part of it.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
June 12, 2013 at 12:26 am in reply to: who’s worse Rumpel or Regina? list all bad things each did #197955MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
The problem here is that your “setting the record straight” is that your interpretation is just that..an interepretation that is colored by your own subjective filter, in this case your love of Regina. Just because you’re an EvilRegal does not mean that you have a deeper understanding of Regina anymore than my being a Dearie means I have a deeper understanding of Rumple. It means you have a greater capacity for sympathy for Regina and I have a greater capacity for sympathy for Rumple. The only two people who truly know and understand these characters are Adam Horrowitz and Eddy Kitiss. That is what I was trying to say and I’m sorry if you took that as fighting with you but we must must must always acknowledge our own agendas and personal stances. There is always room for healthy debate but we have to acknowledge that our love of one particular character always skews our arguments.
RG – I agree with your last statement 100%. Loving one more the other is perfectly fine and you’re right, it does just show the capacity for be more forgiving of them and their mistakes than others might be. We all have different filters and are entitled to our opinions, but they are just that: opinions.
Let me start off by saying I love both Rumple AND Regina. They are both deliciously complex and I can’t wait to see what happens with them because while they’re both on the road to redemption, they still have a long way to go and are very compelling characters.
I’m glad that pretty much every character has people who are so willing to passionately defend them above all others. Everyone needs someone in their corner. I think part of the problem with this particular thread, other than the two characters in question having such passionate fans, is that some of the wording is coming across as very patronizing and “I’m right, you’re wrong” and it’s ruffling a lot of feathers. Some may be more familiar with Regina’s side of things, others with Rumple’s, but that doesn’t make anybody “right” or “wrong” about their OPINIONS on the matter. To each their own, it’s not worth tearing other fans apart. Love what you love & be happy about it, but we really don’t need more chances to rip each other to pieces for no reason. BOTH characters are complex and wonderful and are backbones of this show and I can’t wait to see what they do in the future.
As for what we haven’t seen but can guess at this is one of the problems. Just because we know versions of the stories doesn’t mean we know how OUAT will handle them. Likewise, a good general rule of thumb with these writers in particular is if we haven’t seen how it actually happened yet, don’t assume we know exactly what went down in any given situation. We can guess til we’re blue in the face and blame certain people, but there is always the chance that they throw us a curveball and shake up everything we thought we knew before. Let’s just wait and see.
Having said all that:
Nobody on this show is a saint and some characters (especially Regina & Rumple) have done some awful things along the way. (Not one or the other; BOTH). I don’t see much point in trying to debate who is worse, when both are set up for (long, drawn-out) redemption arcs and are at least trying to be better people than their pasts would lead you to believe. Defending one and condemning the other is silly & makes the arguments laughable and takes away from any serious discussion on the matter because of it.
The nice thing about a show like this vs real life is that in real life they’d all be locked up or killed by now and we wouldn’t have a story. The shades of grey with these characters and watching them struggle to redeem themselves is what is so compelling about this show. Regina & Rumple both were good people once and trying to become that way again (with the right motivation).
For some of us, it’s actually quite easy to be open to both of their arcs and see them both happening. Loving one more than the other is fine, but defending one and ridiculing the other is hypocritical. What’s good for one is good for the other. They have both done truly awful things. I don’t believe for a second that the show has any plans to give only one or the other a happy ending. They are not setting up Rumple to have Belle & Bae and kicking Regina to the curb with nothing. She has an equally long arc but they have set up more than enough to show it moving in that direction.
Loving the character and wanting to root for them doesn’t mean putting blinders on and defending absolutely every stupid mistake they’ve ever made either, regardless of what led them to make them in the first place. Every person on this show has done something stupid at some point in time and declaring them perfect or excusing every awful thing they’ve ever done gets us absolutely nowhere.
In loving a particular character, it’s easy to defend them (especially when it feels like they’re being attacked – believe me, I know the feeling) but while each character has been manipulated by something (yes, BOTH Regina & Rumple have been manipulated into being who they are), blaming one for the other doesn’t get us anywhere either. There’s always someone higher up the ladder to blame for why they are the way they are and BOTH can be defended in this manner. It’s not nor will ever be as cut & dried as “Rumple made Regina the way she is so clearly he’s worse, stop defending him” because as was pointed out, a LOT of things went into making Regina the way she is, going back to Cora & Xavier as much as Rumple.
With regards to Rumple, we can also blame the other Dark One, the Seer, not to mention that technically none of the events we know of with Regina would have happened if Bae hadn’t wanted Rumple to change back to being who he was when he wasn’t ready to do that.
If you look hard enough, you can probably place blame on just about anybody for anything and we still don’t know how Peter Pan/NL fit into everything since they have a picture of Henry long before he’s born so we may not yet know WHO is at the top of this chain of events yet.
As with anything, there is always a choice: Rumple made the choices he made and was led down those paths by Zoso and the Seer. Regina made the choices she made. Was she directed down a certain path? Sure she was, it’s what Rumple wanted. Did she HAVE to do the things he wanted her to? No – she had a choice as her father reminded her right before she killed him to enact the curse.
As far as the BF goes, it seems that she needs to be wished for or called. I don’t think she’s out patrolling say “oh look, that person might need me even though they’ve never heard of me and don’t know how to reach me.” Do the upbringings for a lot of the characters on the show suck? Yes. Does that mean that every little thing is the BF’s fault because she didn’t step in and stop it all from happening? No.
I love the complexity of these characters and look forward to how they’re dealt with but some have a longer road to redemption/love/whatever it is than others do. These are H&K’s characters, their babies if you will, and they love them all. Just because we haven’t seen things happen for them soooo quickly doesn’t mean that they don’t have wonderful plans for them down the line. There’s lots of story left to tell and I look forward to seeing everyone be happy but if that happens right this second, we have no more show.
Believe me I get what it feels like to have your favorite characters on the backburner and feel like everything is going soooo well for others and yours is getting ignored, but as a writer myself and more importantly as a FAN I am sick of seeing people attack Adam on twitter because they feel their character is being underserved or treated horribly. They love all the characters and have big plans for them (and Regina got a lot more airtime this season than most). Let’s let it play out the way they want it to and stop tearing their baby apart. They have said repeatedly how much they love Rumple & Regina. They are not trying to destroy them or play favorites, there are story arcs and things that don’t involve them sometimes or show them taking a step backward when they were doing well before that, but that’s realistic. Nobody is going to recover from being a magic-addict overnight and just because Rumple has found his family (even though he has a long way to go at solidifying those relationships) doesn’t mean that they hate Regina and just want her to suffer. They love her too and I’m sure she has a great path ahead of her just like everyone else (and she made HUGE steps forward in the finale).
It is absolutely pointless to bring character goggles into it because obviously when you love a character, you see things from a different angle and don’t get why others can’t see that, but the same is true of people on the opposite side of things. There are pros and cons to both Rumple & Regina and both are well-loved for a reason.
Why people feel the need to pit people against each other or ridicule people for daring to like something different is beyond me. I thought the shipping stuff was getting out of line this summer, the last thing I expected was to go back to S1 arguments of Rumple vs. Regina. Both have made progress, and taken steps back, and that’s OK. We have a lot of story left to tell and ripping other fans to shreds over something that can’t and shouldn’t really be answered because they’re trying to become better people now is pointless.
Maybe I’m a bit touchy because all I’ve seen lately on a variety of characters are things like “but they did ___ therefore they are unredeemable” and with this show, never say never. What’s worse to me is saying “___ did this and it’s unredeemable but it’s perfectly fine for this other person who has done equal if not worse things too but they’re OK now because they’re not like that anymore.” This show is all about HOPE and watching these very complex characters, some who have truly awful things, find their way back and become the people they always wanted to be. Otherwise what is the point of watching?
I really don’t buy the argument that the show itself is putting down Regina and I find it rather insulting to both the writers and myself to be told that the show is telling me to hate certain types of things / certain characters, and I find most of that is specifically brought up with regards to Regina. Her story is SO much more complex than that but we aren’t taught by the show to hate her or put her down. Yes she has been through a lot this season but all of that will help her GROW in the long-run and bring her closer to being the person she wants to be who can be accepted by everyone she alienated when she was doing horrible things. She took a HUGE step in the finale and I’m sure will continue to build off of that in the future. If she hadn’t gone through a lot this season, it wouldn’t have felt realistic and we wouldn’t have seen her much if there wasn’t a point to what she went through.
For the record she is not the only character who has been through a lot. Many others have as well but it is easy to pay more attention to and think more deeply about what a character you relate to is going through and feel like nobody else is feeling that way about their character (we are all guilty of doing this from time to time) but they have ALL been through a lot. I certainly don’t see it as the show telling us not to root for her because we’ve seen her go through a lot. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, right? And she needs to be stronger to give up her magic crutch to prove to Henry that she can be just Regina like she wants to be (I LOVED her comments to Emma in the finale).
So as a fan of Regina’s and wanting her to grow and get the things she wants in the future (and in the right way) then we should be celebrating that. Just like we celebrate Rumple getting closer to having what he wants as well (not to mention every other character on the show).
Man, I thought the shipping wars were bad *shakes head & walks away*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@Sarah_TN wrote:
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
Considering this is a thread for people who love him, you’re not likely to find too many posts about wanting him gone or him being sick or whatever. He’s fine. He’s been tweeting, he’s been working out, he’s been making promotional appearances, etc etc. We love Colin and many people are just naturally skinny.
I’m sure he’s alright and believe it or not, people in a “Hooked on Colin O’Donoghue” thread do in fact find him sexy (shocker, I know).
Can we please go back to enjoying Colin in a pro-Colin thread? Thanks.
Amen, sister! (Or brother, which is it? 😉 )
Haha, thanks Sarah! (And it’s sister, Kat being short for Kate, Katie, or Katherine depending on how far you want to take it) 😉
Most of the pics I’ve seen so far are on Tumblr, various shots with fans but he seemed to be having a great time! Lots of smiles and swooning ladies, what guy wouldn’t? I’m trying to find them again but not having much luck (I think when I joined tumblr I went overboard and started “liking” a few too many things and it’s hard to find it all again!) There are lots of great pics though. If any of you do come across them again please add them here. So many cute shots! All the fan accounts were really great too – he’s very nice, personable, offering pictures, etc etc. Glad to hear he’s as sweet as he seems! (Some can be a total let-down in person but the OUAT cast is exceptional and I love hearing people back that up with personal encounters!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantConsidering this is a thread for people who love him, you’re not likely to find too many posts about wanting him gone or him being sick or whatever. He’s fine. He’s been tweeting, he’s been working out, he’s been making promotional appearances, etc etc. We love Colin and many people are just naturally skinny.
I’m sure he’s alright and believe it or not, people in a “Hooked on Colin O’Donoghue” thread do in fact find him sexy (shocker, I know).
Can we please go back to enjoying Colin in a pro-Colin thread? Thanks.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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