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MysteryKat25Participant
Aren’t we also the highest scripted show in that timeslot and going up against football etc? The network loves the show (or they wouldn’t bother giving it a spinoff) and besides all of that, it does give them something to bargain with international rights, dvds, netflix, and ABC is part of Disney (or is that the other way around) and it’s BOUND to be helping with all things Disney-related: merchandising, especially costumes, trips to DisneyWorld, renewed interest in the classic movies etc etc.
The ratings dipped a little but I think now that it has 2 seasons and people can catch up (Netflix will help, wish it would get here sooner!) it will continue to grow by word of mouth as it did in season 1. In this day and age, I can understand completely why people are afraid to get into new shows because so often they tank and it’s just time wasted. Seeing a show have a successful couple of seasons under it’s belt is encouraging. Hopefully most of the negativity is kept away from said people so they aren’t so discouraged about trying it out!
Back to plot holes – they do start a lot of threads but they weave in as many as they leave hanging. Some things are answered within the same episode, others the next, others may stretch out for awhile but that’s the only way the show can survive. They give us the important pieces as they are relevant, but they leave little teases along the way so that when they do get to it, we can look back and go WOW it was there and I missed it – plus it makes it seem less out of the blue if there was set up to it and they’re pretty good with setting stuff up.
I’m sure they have a general idea of where the majority of the threads are and how / when is an appropriate time to tell those particular stories. I’m sure we will get to find out about Henry’s adoption as it is highly relevant and has been many repeatedly. They couldn’t get around to it just yet as it likely relates to something we haven’t encountered (like perhaps, THO). Just like they couldn’t show us how Storybrooke began until GregOwen was introduced, or why we weren’t going to find out about Henry’s father for ages because they had already set up that he would be far too old and they didn’t have the rights to send him to NL yet.
Patience. We will get answers, I am sure of it! (At least for most things…some trivial things we may have to just deal with someday like on Lost – though they did finally get around to that missing inhaler lol).
Something tells me having learned from Lost, the writers won’t want to have a lot of loose ends, especially when they know how rabid the fanbase is, so we just have to trust that they’re not really “plot holes” but threads to be woven in at a later date when it’s important to the story.
Because of the flashback set-up, we see what information from the past is relevant to the present-day storyline so some things will just have to wait. The characters themselves have lived all of it already and nobody sits down and remembers their lives in chronological order anyway, they remember things that relate to what they’re going through at the moment.
In the meantime it’s fun to notice the various threads and try and piece some of them together – it certainly makes wrapping our heads around what eventually does happen a little easier (though the entire experience can be a little mind-blowing at times).
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantThanks for the support guys! Love my CaptainSwan shipmates and I am determined that this place gets back to being the safe haven it should be for us (goodness knows we could use it!)
Moving on…
I’ve been looking over transcripts (I’ll deal with screenshots etc later on, for now just looking at the quotes) and I’ve found some good stuff lately. Lots of quotes, coming right up! I’m only on 1×06 so far but looked up a couple others that related to points I wanted to make at this particular time.
One sweet thing I had nearly forgotten about with Charming: “What’s 28 years when you have eternal love?” His faith in love is astounding and timeless. He will ALWAYS find Snow and he knew exactly how long he’d be away from her should she go through the wardrobe with Emma. Might I also point out that 28 is far more than the 10-11 somebody else knew about and didn’t have trust in overcoming? David almost made it out of SB after breaking up with MM and trying to leave town, got his memories back as Charming, STILL KNEW all the bad stuff he did as David, but knew he had to go find Snow and that they could overcome anything because their love is THAT STRONG. Just saying. <3 his faith in true love.
Emma: “Telling someone their soulmate is in a coma is probably not helpful. Not having a happy ending is painful enough but giving someone unrealistic hope is far worse.” – Poor Emma 🙁 She’s been through so much!
Graham offering Emma a job and letting her be a part of something: “Well, here’s your chance to see it up close. There’s dental. Why don’t you think about it and stay awhile?” Awwww *sniff*
Of course there’s this classic Emma moment which I LOVE: “People are going to tell you who you are your whole life. You just gotta punch back and say ‘No, this is who I am.’ You want people to look at you differently? Make them. You want to change things you are going to have to go out there and change them yourself because there are no Fairy Godmothers in this world.” *sniff* GO EMMA! (And she didn’t even KNOW yet just how many people were telling her who she was!)
Also from the Cinderella episode, Emma: “Sean, if you want to come, come. Stop letting other people make decisions for you.” You tell ’em!
Even Rumple can see how strong she is from time to time & compliments her awesomeness: “I like you Ms. Swan. You’re not afraid of me and that’s either cocky or presumptuous. Either way I’d rather have you on my side.” I <3 people who appreciate her awesomeness like Hook, Graham, & Rumple. They compliment her rather than tear her down or treat her like a child *cough Snow I love you but your little girl is not so little anymore. Glad you're starting to notice that*
This is one of my favorite quotes from Harry Potter and I think it applies greatly to OUAT.
“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.”
Choice has been a recurring theme and is very important to many of the characters. The word is used often and in pouring over even the first few episodes, I’ve found a lot that helps to parallel CaptainSwan and why it will happen.
For one thing? The Charmings are BIG on choice:
David: “Should be doesn’t matter. Whoever married Kathryn, it’s not me. I didn’t choose her. I’m choosing you. I know you feel it, I can tell.” – Sounds a little bit like Henry there doesn’t he? 🙂
Shepherd David: “When I marry I want it to be because I choose to spend the rest of my life with someone I love.”
David: “With someone I didn’t choose! The man who chose that life, whoever married Kathryn, is gone.”
David: “But if you choose this – if you choose us – you know where I’ll be.”
Emma: “Well he left her. It’s one thing to say that he wants you but it’s another to actively make a choice and now he has. That’s all you can ask for.” – THIS, a million times THIS!
* Charming chose Snow when it would have been easier and more self-preservation
* David chose MM when it would have been easier and neither would have been so vilified (even if it was all a fake obligation)
* Hook chose Emma when it would have been easier and more self-preservation (twice!)Snowing & CaptainSwan parallels <3
And of course, the icing on the cake:
Cora: “You chose her…and the consequences of that decision.”
Now, in regards to the last one, I do acknowledge that Rumple clearly ships SF. However, he is also biased. He was right to tell Neal that he can’t love another while he holds a torch for Emma much like King George spelled out to Charming about the Snowing + Abigail triangle. George wanted his money from Midas so in that case he wanted Charming to get over Snow. Rumple wants Neal to get Tamara out of his system so that SF can happen but ultimately wants his son to be happy and he knows that Neal still clearly has feelings for Emma, I get that.
However, the fact that CORA said it (as much as I despise the woman) is important because it is a far more un-biased comment. She doesn’t want Hook working for the person trying to stop her from getting to her daughter, she wants Hook on her side and she’s disappointed that he chose Emma. She has no personal stake in who he ends up with, just what it means for getting her way right now and she’s acknowledging that this is a problem for her.
Going back to my earlier argument: in the Tamara – Neal – Emma triangle Neal *NEVER* chose Emma. He chose Tamara down to the last second until she was no longer an option for him. Then and only then did he profess to wanting Emma and regretting it all these years. Tamara did not have him under some kind of spell, she just duped him for ages (poor thing has been through enough and didn’t need to be treated like that, but Emma did try to warn him repeatedly and he mocked her for it).
As to the regret thing we’ve seen that many times:
* Ruth & her husband (still no name grr) gave up James and said her husband regretted it every day til he died (did nothing)
* Milah gave up Bae and Hook said she regretted it every day til she died (did nothing)
* Snowing gave up Emma fully expecting her to find them and reunite (accomplished)
* Emma gave up Henry to give him his best chance and he found her and they were reunited (accomplished)
* Rumple gave up Bae (CLEARLY regretted it and has done something about it even though it’s not necessarily in the right way…; accomplished)
* Neal gave up Emma (twice: once for the good of everyone and to find her family; once for their son); regretted leaving her every day (did nothing); is now back in her life because she owed Rumple a favor (still chose someone else til the last second)If / when Henry gets married and has kids he better stick around cause both sides of his family CLEARLY have leaving people issues.
I’m not sure after all that how it’s not clearly set up in a specific way. Nor am I clear on how people think that Neal’s #1 priority is Emma when he puts FAMILY in general above everything else. MRJ even said in one of his interviews that family is what’s important to Bae right now. Emma is a part of it, but she isn’t the only part and I do think they will always care about each other and work their issues out, at least for Henry’s sake
We’ve seen the sacrifice thing a number of times:
* Bae was willing to go fight in the ogre wars rather than running off with Rumple adding to his cowardice
* Bae considered the Darlings to be his family and sacrificed himself and was taken to NL
* Neal sacrificed his love of Emma by letting her go to jail and cutting off all contact so she could fulfill her destiny/find her family (but knew how to find her and didn’t because he was afraid and didn’t think she’d forgive him)
* Neal sacrificed being with Emma again because he didn’t want Henry to grow up like they did (orphans)He’s been putting Henry first (one of the few things I do love about him at the moment) and so has Emma. Her only comment about Neal other than him being “gone” was asking how she would tell Henry and stating why she couldn’t let Regina die.
I realize that was a lot but I really love quotes and there have been a LOT of good ones about choice and it’s one of the things that show how similar Emma & Charming can be at times (not that there aren’t a lot of similarities between Snow & Emma as well, but I love the father/daughter stuff and how strong-willed they are when it comes to love.) Plus I think choice (and Emma’s comments regarding it) really help to show why in the end she’ll choose Hook. Happy shipping! *passes out cookies*
Edited to add:
* Emma tells Graham he’s “observant”
* Hook tells Emma she’s “quite perceptive”😀
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI could see that RG – not sure if they’ll get separate episodes or if it’ll somehow get combined (I hope not, just because it doesn’t leave a lot of time for anything but you never know). There’s lots of questions to be answered, especially regarding Henry getting to SB which I think were originally going to wait a really long time but since they were able to bring his dad in this early plans changed so we should get answers sooner as opposed to later.
I agree, I don’t think she really had any substantial relationships in between Tallahassee and early S1 with hints toward Gremma *sniff* and then again in present day Tallahassee (one of the reasons I love the line “It’s about bloody time” because she’s been without love for sooo long with those stupid walls of hers >.< but I digress... Pesky rights – I wonder how they planned on doing things originally and then once they found out they couldn’t get the rights how those plans changed and now that they did get them…well we’ll just have to see how it actually plays out. Pretty much everything we were teased with in S1 was changed because they got the rights (thank goodness but I’m still curious what various teases meant and how they were going to deal with things had they had to go that route – perhaps someday they’ll tell us when we see more things play out.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
@HappyEndings wrote:
What was that fight that Regina was talking to Gold about in Granny’s when Cora was coming to SB, Gold said that he won and Regina said that isn’t how her mother tells it. ❓
We don’t know. I’m almost 99.9% sure we’re going to get that story in S3 because we know that the woman who played young Cora was already asked to come back for an episode in S3. That was spoiled before The Miller's Daughter came out.
Agreed. I keep forgetting there’s more to that story than I thought when that episode aired!
As for more quotes on Emma and her love life, she tells MM later in 1×06:
Here’s the thing: I don’t know a lot about relationships other than having many that failed.
I know at some point later on (haven’t gotten there yet) that she talks to MM about one-night stands and implies that the majority of her relationships have been that way so we may never know who any of these guys are, just that she’s dated some…less-than-worthy guys over the years and it helps explain why her walls are still up.
As to the rest I am very interested in seeing more of her transformation from Tallahassee – Pilot because she’s definitely different. We’ve seen her change a lot in the last 2 seasons but I’d like to see how to she got to that point for sure.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantYeah we didn’t get as many mother/daughter bonding moments as I expected with Snow & Emma being in FTL. The only stuff we really got was when they went to Emma’s old nursery. Hopefully more of that happened and we’ll see it pay off later. It was a start at least.
I’m curious about how / why she became a bounty hunter too. It makes sense that she’s made it her life’s mission to hunt people down (her parents, Neal) but it’s also an interesting turn. It’s a job that specifically requires hunting people down that have done something wrong which I think is part of the mentality for her. She feels wronged and wants other people who do horrible things to go to jail for things they actually did (not that I can blame her, especially since this likely happened well after her 2 years in Tallahassee…)
I think we’ll definitely get more of that at some point, hopefully in and around the story of how Henry ended up in SB at 3 weeks old.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI agree, we don’t know much but the way it sounded, especially with her specifically saying it was a married guy and adding the “trust me” part made it sound like she personally knew what she was talking about. There’s still a large gap of time for her to be filled in and she may have been a different person than we’ve seen when she first got out of jail (or perhaps, after 2 years of waiting in Tallahassee and having her dreams crushed which is more likely). She may have gotten into more trouble or made stupid decisions before turning her life around from thief to bounty hunter to sheriff. We’ve only seen the very beginning of that transformation but not the transformation itself (if that makes sense).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantIf you watch the scene (it’s super early in 1×06 The Shepherd), Kathryn is making introductions and we see who David is being introduced to with the exception of Frank (camera stays just on David while they’re shaking hands) and then the next guy over to say hi to is Dr. Whale. The dialogue being isolated showed me that we literally jump from Frank to Dr. Whale and it never came up in anything that I saw, even on the reasons people thought he was Frankenstein (though I could have forgotten that little tidbit I suppose – it’s been awhile).
As per his name I would assume it was Victor either way and that’s why we were never informed as to what his first name was as Victor would be too easily paired down. Victor works for Frankenstein as well as being the first name of the director of the Wizard of Oz (since they do use director names apparently and they at least tried to mislead us into thinking he might be the wizard) so it could have gone either way in their line of thinking but would still have gotten it way too close to the truth and they managed to *mostly* keep the Frankenstein thing under wraps.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantNo, it’s Victor as per The Doctor – it’s just interesting that Dave / Ellen weren’t important, Frank was never seen but that the NAME Frank was mentioned IMMEDIATELY before Dr. Whale being introduced.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantJust found something cool in looking over the 1×06 transcript (and watched that scene cause I did a triple-take on it).
At David’s welcome home party, he’s introduced to Dave (shakes his hand & is seen), Dave’s wife Ellen (shakes his hand and is seen), “FRANK” (shakes hand, is NOT seen doing so), then the very next person that says hi to David who says hi back is introduced by Kathryn and it’s…DR. WHALE.
They literally went from random nobodies that had names, to “Frank” to quiet and ‘hi’s and Dr. Whale. So the dialogue literally went:
Kathryn makes introductions ending with…
Kathryn: And Frank.
David: Hey.
Dr. Whale: Hey.
Kathryn: Dr. Whale.
HOW DID WE MISS THIS?!?
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI agree HappyEndings: I think they conveniently forgot about little Alexandra (which would have meant Henry taking care of a baby, much like August & Emma only Henry would have done the right thing presumably).
Still, they shouldn’t have forgotten about her, though I have a feeling since it came from Regina she a) doesn’t care about some other random baby and b) *would* feel like Henry would be all alone if she and Emma and everyone else were gone. That’s my only guess on that.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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