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MysteryKat25Participant
Thanks obisgirl! This thread is making me feel lots better now.
I totally agree with the statement that it would be Henry’s happy ending, not necessarily Emma’s. It’s why I’m so adamant that I want them all in Henry’s life but at some point he needs to grow up and realize that their lives AREN’T fairy tales, they have real world experiences and sometimes these things happen but they all need to be able to coexist for his sake. (And by coexist I mean get along, not live together literally!)
I NEED CaptainSwan moments. There was so much hype around PaleyFest and then now it’s all SwanFire because MRJ is doing press and it sounds like they’re gonna be talking stuff out but that doesn’t mean just because they understand the past that they’ll get back together. I feel like we’re being jerked around =/ I’m hoping once hype starts for the finale that Colin will be doing interviews so that there can be some CS hype too….
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participantslurpeez108 – I love that theory! The idea that it's tied up to NealFire makes total sense since it was designed with him in mind. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. Good job!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@HappyEndings wrote:
@RumplesGirl wrote:
@HappyEndings wrote:
Too me there has never been a love triangle, people just see what that want to see or wish to happen when nothing is really there. ❗ I too will be so glad when we get rid of Hook so this sillness stuff of shipping people will stop and we can actually all move on and watch the show without people harping on Emma and a Hook connection good grief. 😡
To be fair to the CS’ers, there is something between Emma and Hook. For me, the most genuine Hook has ever been was toward the end of Tallahassee when he says “Look into my eyes, Swan. Have I lied to you?” I think he honestly would have been on her side and helped her. I do think there is something to explore there because I don’t see Hook as just a “dark” character.
Also, Hook isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. He’s going to be around for a long time and I think he should be, even if I don’t find him as compelling as some fans do. He does have a story that will be interesting.Look into my eyes doesn’t really mean anything, it must be this young generation who wants to add something to a comment or think what is said is fliriting because this is just a statement nothing more to me.
I agree with RG on this one (and thanks even though I know you’re not much of a CS’er except to get to SF!). Hook was the most genuine with his conversation with Emma on their little adventure in Tallahassee. He said quite a few interesting things especially on the trip up the beanstalk but he was also very impressed with how she handled things when they were up there, even telling her she’d make a good pirate (which is a compliment coming from him) and some of the things he said about the lost boys makes me think we’ll be seeing a very different side of him very soon.
He even went so far as to “waste” all the rum he had on him to make sure her hand wasn’t infected before bandaging it himself. Who else would he have bothered to do that for instead of just saying keep going?
I think he was also feeling the most betrayed by her leaving him there because he is a pirate and doesn’t trust easily but he trusted her and they DID make a very good team. Think about how he treats Emma vs everyone else who betrays him. He either uses them and then betrays them (ie: Regina) or spends his life plotting revenge (Rumple) but with Emma, no matter what she does or how much it hurts him, he is always happy to see her and forgives her instantly. How many times has she knocked him out or tied him up now? Just saying.
I will agree with the comment about people seeing what they want to see (or blocking out what they don’t want to see) but there are many of us, though we do have a preference for one side or the other, that do actually see both. Thanks for backing me up on that RG!
Like I said from watching Tallahassee I see the potential for both outcomes. They paralleled them very nicely. To me, the flashback is her past and it won’t be coming back and Hook is the present / future but that doesn’t mean I don’t see the potential for them to go the SwanFire route. BOTH couplings have a lot of parallels with Snowing and BOTH have potential on their own merit. Do I prefer CaptainSwan, sure I do. Doesn’t mean I don’t see what others do in SwanFire. I don’t block out those moments, I just don’t prefer them or dwell on them too much if I can help it. I’m sure that’s what many do with CaptainSwan where they just don’t want to see it so they don’t, but both are there.
I get why love triangles can be a bit of a turnoff but look at how boring Snowing got when they have very little to do in SB (I am hoping they’re more like themselves when we get to a different land again) and even the couples we know have to end up together for sure have more exciting stuff going on. Emma is new and can be anything along the way.
I’d rather they at least explore the idea of the triangle and keep us guessing for a bit than give her a boring coupledom and then backburner all of it. They’ve shown too much potential for both that to get rid of one so easily would cause riots in the fandom and probably kill ratings. Look at how often Graham gets brought up and that was from episode 7! Imagine what would happen now.
If somebody new comes into the picture that is viable with either of them than fine, it can taper off and go whichever way as long as it’s believable / organic / feels right. I’m all for a Hook pairing I can root for that doesn’t step on anybody else’s toes so I can enjoy it without being ridiculed. There’s just nobody currently on the show that I see that happening with and most of the new people brought in would already have their OTL set in stone.
We’re spoiled in that this show has LOTS of couples we already know are destined for each other so it’s the journey getting there but we know the destination. With Emma everything is up in the air and new. So we have a journey where we don’t know the outcome, so what? Let’s enjoy the ride getting there and see where we end up! That’s not a bad thing!Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
You’re killing me here. 😥
But if there is no body would they think he is dead? Unless of course it’s just his spirit that goes to FTL.I would imagine it would be similar to the thing with Phillip from the beginning of the season (they like to tie things back to the beginning and a body would make things more credible for everyone to be grieving, especially if they don’t have as much reason to believe there’s a chance like Mulan and Aurora currently do.)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@slurpeez108 wrote:
While I don’t think Emma and Neal will get back together immediately (probably because Neal will get transported to EF), there’s no denying they still “carry a torch” for each other as Mr. Gold points out in the 8-minute preview of 2×21. I don’t mind if Hook and Emma have their little fling, to give the CaptainSwan fans their fill, but I’m convinced Emma and Neal are meant to be. Also, anyone who has seen this special Who is Baelfire? feature knows how hard E & A ship Baelfire with Emma. That means Swanfire is canon.
I am excited based on the stuff in all these MRJ interviews because regardless of shipping stuff, he has a lot of baggage to address with Rumple, Emma, Henry, etc etc and there should be a lot of great stuff with him in the flashbacks (I adore young Bae so am excited to see what his life was like there – hopefully it will help me like him more as an adult too :S)
The writers have certainly been shipping SwanFire a lot lately (and so have various characters..) but around PaleyFest it was completely the other way and felt like canon from that side too (in fact it had a ton of CS moments; especially comments from JMO; and MRJ wasn’t even there nor did SwanFire get much attention at all). Like I said in another thread I feel like BOTH ships are getting teased cause they sound one way then promise the others will get something too and we have yet to see it! Two episodes left in the season and I don’t know what to think right now because it really sounded like there was a lot of CaptainSwan goodness to be had and then all of a sudden everything I see is about SwanFire.
Having a couple of characters ship it, though irksome a bit, doesn’t bother me a ton because we all know Emma is a rebel (just like her parents) so giving Rumple what he might want isn’t exactly on her priority list unless it benefits her in some way, and Henry needs his family but with such a dysfunctional unit already as long as they can coexist in his life, I really won’t care.
I doubt they’ll have her really choose anything anytime soon (she has better priorities than that and is focused / closed off, whichever you prefer) but it really does sound lately like they’re just hyping tiny little moments as something huge for fans of both pairings and we’ll have to wait and see if either gets as big of a payoff in those moments as it sounds like from the hype.
They know both ships are popular and they’ve said they get pretty equal love / hate for both so I’m sure they’re trying to keep everybody interested / have hope (kinda the main point of the show…) but they have definitely switched up which moments they’ve been hyping so it’s either turned a corner or something is part of some huge thing they’ve actually managed to keep under wraps. (I don’t want to believe they’re just catering to people and going where the wind blows and telling us all what we want to hear, and I expect that after all the interviews with MRJ we’ll also get a lot with Co’D since NealFire & Hook are major players in the upcoming story and it’ll probably shift back again).
I really don’t believe the “to give CS fans their fill” aspect of CS though. In viewing Tallahassee I saw the potential in BOTH ships and many feel the same way. There was definitely something there that will hopefully be filled in with the Neverland backstories but there’s a reason that people do like the CS stuff (and it’s not because Colin is hot). There was something in him that was visible in Tallahassee that we just haven’t gotten to really see since then but it was there. It probably got lost in all the swooning over Neal and the lack of Hook or only throwing him on the floor but it was there.
I’d like to think they wouldn’t resort to fanfiction stuff to appease people and frankly, as a huge CS fan, I’d be insulted if all we got was a stupid little fling that didn’t fit anywhere and feel right. Tallahassee gave me hope for something real and I’d hate it with a passion if it was something stupid put in to appease the fans and then disappeared.
If CS does happen and then eventually goes to SwanFire, I think it will be as RG said, more of a stepping stone to get to the point where Emma is capable of giving NealFire another chance after everything he put her through. If Emma is consistent about anything it’s her hatred of being manipulated and controlled. She had her whole life mapped out for her and whether his reasons were noble or not, NealFire helped manipulate and control the direction of her life, not to mention throw her in jail. She’s gonna need some stepping stones to get to that point for sure. (I’d like to think CS wouldn’t be a stepping stone since I do see a lot of potential for them, but at least if it is I hope it’s more real and not just to appease the fans. I’d rather not be given reason to hope for them if there’s no way it’ll happen, regardless of them hyping different things at different times.
PS: Are there any spare cookies around, RG? I could use some today and I think it’s showing. Sorry guys for the long rambles/rants! I am excited about the new info from MRJ, just tired of being jerked around between what they hype and what they used to hype / it’s contradictory-ness. :S
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI’ll agree with the not holding on for no reason thing. I just also know that she spent a couple years in Tallahasse presumably looking for him, and that he was told not once but twice (once very close to the curse being broken I might add) that August was going to let him know when he could go get Emma back and what does he do? Turns around and starts dating Tamara *smacks forehead*. Perhaps he really is like Rumple and is just good at making stupid mistakes at just the right time because he doesn’t believe he’s worthy.
That being said with as much time as she wasted being miserable because of him, that doesn’t go away overnight so hopefully she’ll at least get a good shot at being with someone else. I’d rather her not come across as pathetic just because she finally understands why he did what he did. I don’t see them falling back into each others arms anytime soon, nor do I think they need to (I really think it undermines the “we are both” thing if the real world side of people, ESPECIALLY Emma, gets overlooked to just fall into fairy tale traps but that’s an endgame problem I have at the moment, one of the main things holding me back I think).
I like what you said RG about the Hook / Graham thing (and hopefully it wont’ be a repeat of start to open up then somebody dies thing. I’d rather be mad at her for choosing NealFire over Hook and see why it was that way than just falling back into old habits cause yet another love dies, and I like the idea of them opening each other up again (even though I’d prefer they stay together…).
On the bright side, after seeing Tallahassee, I’m pretty sure her endgame is with one of the two and no matter which she ends up with all roads lead to NEVERLAND!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantAt the time I was under the impression that the wizard of oz thing was a misdirect for that ep (even though the promo gave away it was Frankenstein, grr) BUT that info came from Jane Espenson who has also said that she learns new things in the writer’s room every day and isn’t always told some of the big over-arcing stuff until necessary so it wouldn’t surprise me if they had her go that route not knowing just how much of an impact it would have later.
There IS a name connection between the two, as VICTOR Fleming directed The Wizard of Oz, much like Jacob WHALE directed Frankenstein where the lead character is named Victor. Could be coincidence, could have helped with the red herrings in The Doctor, or it could be an eventual combining of the two. I’m not sure yet but wanted to throw that out there for anybody who was looking for connections with the idea.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI’m happy so far as Emma & Neal talking out the past and coming to terms with exactly what went down. Also excited to see what the NealFire / Rumple game changer is. So many ideas and still no clue!
I’m still adament however that a lot of time has passed, Emma & Neal are different people now, and just because they had something 10 years ago (and a kid…) doesn’t mean that they absolutely 100% HAVE to be endgame. They might be, but they don’t “have” to be. Yes it’s a fairy tale story but they have real world experiences (especially Emma) so as much as Henry might want his parents together, sometimes that’s not the case in the real world, fairy tale influence or not, so we’ll have to see.
It’s the end of season 2. Hopefully there’s a long slow burn for whoever Emma ends up with or she’ll just become boring in that department like all the others that we know have to end up together. (Also, as annoying as it is that RumBelle is often split up, RumBelle is still interesting / exciting and Snowing is *somewhat* boring. I’d rather not end up with a boring, predictable SwanFire this early in the game which is one of the reasons I love the excitement of the CaptainSwan possibility – don’t get me wrong I love Snowing, it’s just not as interesting most of the time these days (their FTL flashbacks are significantly more interesting). Emma is the one character who has no set, predetermined true love we’ve grown up knowing. I like that.)
I AM thrilled, however, that Emma & Neal will be addressing stuff. They have a lot of history that needs clearing up in order to coexist in Henry’s life which to me IS the perfect endgame, regardless of how any couplings shake out. His family tree is tangled enough but he needs them all there: his mom, dad, adopted mom, grandparents, etc etc. He has a lot of people who love him and that is the ultimate happy ending, whether at 11 he believes that or not.
Who knows, maybe the last 2 episodes of the season will change my mind since we’re getting more on NealFire but as much as I love young Bae I’m not impressed with what he became (though he is infinitely better than what I expected knowing what he went through with falling through the portal and Rumple abandoning him. I expected him to grow up into a very different person, especially with the way Emma used to talk about him – whatever happened with that married person thing she hinted at? Must have been a different relationship). Anyway, he’s better than he was and has potential so perhaps in filling more gaps I’ll see more of it too but I really think if we get SwanFire any time soon it’ll mostly be boring hohum stuff and then they better introduce somebody awesome for Hook so I can get behind that – can’t stand the idea of anybody we’ve seen on the show so far with him, at least at this point in time.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantThanks guys. I’ve always been of the mindset that Emma & Neal have to have a lot of talks about the past and come to grips with it but learn that they are different people now and aren’t necessarily right for each other. I keep waiting for all the CS goodness we’ve been promised and it seems like everybody is so focused on SwanFire right now it’s frustrating! Not to mention the fact that a lot of the characters themselves ship it which makes everybody seem to think it has to happen for Henry to have his happy ending too.
(I’m very adament that Henry can have everybody in his life but there HAS to be some merging of the FTL + real world stuff, given that our characters, especially Emma, have had that as a major influence in their lives now and Henry needs to grow up and realize that they can all still love him and be civil with each other without absolutely having to have his parents back together. With their crazy dysfunctional family – since he has Regina in there as well – he’s just gotta learn that having them all in his life and hopefully getting along with each other eventually is enough – at least I hope that’s the case).
Like I said I love Hook and I want to be happy with who he ends up with and right now, for me, that’s just Emma. We had too many wonderful moments in Tallahassee for it all to be for naught!
Obisgirl I absolutely love that pic! I feel so much better now. *Fingers crossed for something wonderful in the last couple of eps* (and by something wonderful, I mean Emma & Neal addressing the past and moving the heck on. Neal can be sweet and all but I don’t want him with Emma anytime soon and there isn’t a magic button to undo the past even if they both learn / understand what exactly happened to tear them apart.
BRING ON CAPTAIN SWAN! (And please, please show Hook in a more positive light so that others see what we saw in Tallahassee. I’m begging you!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantAnybody else slightly bummed right now or is everybody still hopeful?
I feel like awhile back with PaleyFest etc we got so many hints that we were gonna be super happy and that CaptainSwan would get a lot of moments etc and then lately it seems like everything positive that comes out about a ship is SwanFire….I don’t get it!
I know we need SwanFire to talk about stuff and move past it in order for CaptainSwan to have any legit chance but I feel like the way the interviews etc have been going lately they’re really trying to tease that those two have deep feelings and will be together again soon (especially once Tamara is out of the picture / shown to be evil in front of NealFire) and I just feel so frustrated!
Why tease all the lovely CaptainSwan stuff we haven’t gotten any of in ages (nothing REAL since Tallahassee mostly) and now all of a sudden the focus is on SwanFire again. Sure they have to interact but I almost feel like BOTH ships are being teased mercilessly! WHY!?!?!
I get they want all of us to tune in and one side is upset if everybody is teasing the other but I’m so sick of seeing stuff about it being “definite” that so and so is endgame. We’re at the end of season 2, anything could happen and they sounded so positive about CaptainSwan not too long ago and now it sounds like the writers ship SwanFire like crazy. What gives??
I know we’re supposed to see an interview with Jennifer & Colin sometime closer to the finale so I’m still hopeful that in these last two eps we get some major CaptainSwan goodness but I’m starting to panic a little. If it hadn’t been teased so much before I wouldn’t have my hopes up so high and I feel the same way for the SwanFire people right now who are celebrating because they think their ship is definitely happening too. It’s frustrating all around and I hope we get some good stuff in these last two eps.
People are already trying to ship Hook with people we haven’t seen already and I love Hook so IF they do it well I guess I can deal with him finding a different love but sooo not in EvilCaptain territory so for now I still need my CaptainSwan. I don’t want to have to deal with a backup ship unless it’s so awesome right out of the gate that it blows me away and nobody else that we’ve seen yet makes me want to ship them with Hook at all!
I need hope for CaptainSwan, somebody help!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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