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Yeah, I think @RG is right — in part I think A&E have completely lost control of the meta level of their narrative, and are seemingly assuming that they can control/substitute it with droning on about hope and love and family on social media.
It’s your run of the mill propaganda approach — A&E are constantly attempting to reinterpret their own show in accordance with their stated party line, no matter how poorly the evidence fits it, and hope that their audience is either stupid enough or simply indifferent enough that it’ll take everything they say at face value.
But I think more broadly there’s this overarching feeling that no one — and not even A&E — are into telling this story anymore. I think their own writing is no longer making them think — I don’t get a feeling of play or intellectual excitement from the show the way that it was so obviously there in S1. I think they are all going through the motions, and even the actors are largely, to quote Sean, “serving the writing” and not much beyond that. Even RC and Lana feel a bit lackluster these days — and I think those two are excellent indicator of overall show “morale” because they are superbly talented and also have been on this show since the start. So it seems to me that everyone is going through the motions, and the writing has devolved into typical TV show tropes that are meant to produce “drama,” but there’s very little left that’s actually thought-provoking.
I think there were some really interesting, meaty themes early on in this arc. But then they got dropped, as if following up on them required too much intellectual effort.
[adrotate group="5"]Oh, what to say. How did such a promising half season turn into such a train wreck?
LIKED:
Most of the acting on the part of Sean, Lana, and Bex.
The fact that Hades’s hair didn’t turn blue.
Rumple’s shoes.
And… that’s it. The rest is a ranking of dislikes in increasing order from befuddled annoyance to general disgust.
So, DISLIKED:
1. Arthur and Hook. I can’t with the whitewashing on this show. Now, this is the guy who magic-roofied his wife, and was up to all sorts of other bad juju. And now the guy gets to set the UW straight? Yikes. But aside from that, that entire misadventure in the UW was confusing, silly, and mildly cringe worthy. Also, I motion to introduce a drinking game (or a chocolate eating game for those who abstain) that, should you have the misfortune to rewatch this masterchunk, would provide some palliative relief. Drink (or eat a chocolate) every time that Arthur or Hooks says “quest.” Also, why precisely did Hook go off into the light and get picked up by Zeus and sent back? I mean sure, PLOT, but was Zeus just sort of lurking there waiting him to come through?
2. Moe French. What an upstanding dude. If Rumbelle ever actually get their act together, I predict some seriously awkward family dinners. For all we know, though, Belle’s been put on ice until the end of the series. But then, OUAT deals with awkward family problems with the grace and sensitivity of a two-bit mafia middle man. “No person, no problem.” (More on this below). So actually if Belle and Rumple end up together, Mr. French’s lifespan might end up being shorter than expected. Anyway, if after all this Moe actually does break her curse, I think we can be pretty sure that TLK means absolutely nothing.
3. Hades. Don’t get me wrong, Greg German’s outstanding, and I was pretty sure we’d end up with an unreformed villain, but… I mean the message I got from that whole thing was that all Hades ever wanted in life is to get his heart restarted so that he could use his brother’s Plastic Toy of Doom on some poor hapless victim. So the Lord of the Underworld, who’s been around for thousands of years, who’s had ample time to reflect on his own trajectory and on the vicissitude of mortals’ lives, has the emotional development of a toddler who wants to use the toy his brother didn’t wanna share? Wow. What outstanding storytelling and characterization.
4. So… let me get this straight. True love is absolute sacrifice, to the point of total annihilation. Hmm. That is not a good message. But wait, Hades and Zelena shared a TLK. So True Love is still True Love even if the two people in question are essentially happy to watch the rest of the world burn. Well then.
5. And this brings me to Robin. After Neal, this was the most ridiculously unnecessary, and absurdly cruel death on this show. Poor Roland is now a complete orphan. Both mom and dad are dead. And why? I suspect because, once again, OUAT’s creative bankruptcy means that instead of telling complex and compelling stories about people’s complicated entanglements — say, the Neal/Emma/Hook triangle, or, in this case, the Regina/Robin/Zelena mess, the show decides to simply kill off the undesirable character who was “in the way”. And because OUAT has to constantly up the ante — the super duper biggest everest worst villain ever! The deadest of all the dead! — A&E decided to not just kill off Robin, but annihilate him. Why not have him die and then show him moving on? This was utterly, unnecessarily cruel.
6. So, Emma Swan cares absolutely nothing about anyone or anything other than being with her boyfriend. Ok, then. Because as a general rule a make out session over the casket of a close friend who just died seems so wildly inappropriate and callous that I’m going to assume that Emma’s not someone we are supposed to feel particularly positive about.
Because Emma is now a selfish cow who doesn’t give a crap about others so long as she gets what she wants?
Yup.
Ugh. I can’t even muster the energy to review this episode. I don’t think there was a single thing I liked about it. Except perhaps for the dubious satisfaction of having predicted that Hades was a jerk all along.
That last scene where Hook is back and Emma and him are making out in front of Robin’s grave made me want to throw something at the TV. But then I remembered I could go watch Game of Thrones — which at this point is a whole lot more hopeful, life affirming and psychologically uplifting than OUAT. *sigh*
I’ve no idea anymore. I think Rumple’s devolution into a villain with the complexity of Skeletor is a symptom of the larger problems with the show and what seems to be its creative bankruptcy. There seems to be no overarching plan, sloppy world building, MacGuffins at every turn. It’s not surprising that character writing is also suffering.
Also, if we take Rumple’s statement at face value, I think the villains in the show seem to have a seriously inflated sense of the attractiveness of SB. We’ve now had Zelena, Hades, Arthur, and presumably now Rumple plotting to take over. I mean have they seen the place? Doesn’t anyone else find it mildly ridiculous that we have a parade of ultra-powerful villains with untold magical powers fighting over a little suburban Podunk (no offense to Steveston, it seems like a perfectly charming place, but…)
To me there are two aspects to the question — is Emma likable/relatable and is the world building compelling enough that whatever Emma’s less likable traits might be, the audience still hopes she overcomes the external threats she faces. I think CS is only part of the problem. It’s the overall shoddy storytelling and world building that contributes to the sense that Emma is a cardboard prop battling trivial or ridiculous obstacles.
All of these duos/ships men started out “villains” that were really just “misunderstood bad boys” that could be “fixed” or “changed” by having women loving them. I just also wonder what kind of messages that is, intentionally or not, communicated with these stories, when considering the similar and/or different paths they have taken or are taking.
It’s not a message I am comfortable with, personally. Women aren’t saints and we aren’t the way to redemption for men, which more or less takes away our importance as individuals and agency with our own ambitions, struggles, joys and woes that has nothing to do with men, be they our fathers, brothers, husbands, or lovers. But, most people ’round this joint will tell you, I tend to see everything heavily skewed threw a feminist lens. The other flip of this is that women on this show are redeemed via childbirth. Babies are apparently magical for women. It’s all we need to feel whole and be “complete.”
THIS! So many times this. Though, @RG, I also share your feminist soapbox so I will readily admit to a particular perspective on these two tropes.
To answer@sierraleone ‘s original question, which I think is really pertinent, about “what kind of message that is” — well, it’s a tried and true one. It’s been around the block at least a few times: say, from the original B&B fairytale to Jane Eyre to something like The Breakfast Club to Twilight, to 50 shades of gray, to you name it. The broader question is why the heck is it appealing? And to whom? Or is it just the case that we have a reactionary, misogynist, aging group of entertainment professionals (lets call it Hollywood culture) trying to peddle a message that no longer rings true with the current moment/audience, but said professionals are too set in their ways to pay attention? I mean, it looks like by and large (this here fan community notwithstanding), it is appealing to people. Which is kinda mind-boggling.
Salvation by baby is also incredibly tiresome. I wish I could say that this is a gender issue that stems from the fact that a good chunk of the senior writers, except for Jane, are men. And to some extent, considering how laughably unrealistic everything having to do with babies has been on this show — from labor to care — it does feel like it’s being written by pre-teen boys with as clear an idea of human reproduction as they might have of String theory. But I think the whole “woman’s ultimate fulfillment is motherhood” is actually deeper than that, and has something to do with an ingrained US middle/upper class white parenting ideology.
True love in general has become some sort of goal and it’s what proves a couple as “valid.
Yes, exactly. And the fact that the cases of TL that aren’t romantic love — and, increasingly, some kind of love at first sight version thereof — are now almost nonexistent really feels jarring to me.
I think a story where Regina and Snow share a version of TLK — as “sisterly” love or friendship, after years of bitter enmity — would have made for such a wonderful completion to the original story of Snow White and the EQ.As I said in another thread, I don’t think Regina will become the Evil Queen again by choice. I highly suspect that she is somehow given Jekyll’s potion, and turns into the Evil Queen against her own will. I think the writers miss writing certain characters when they were evil, and can’t help but figure out ways to do so again in the present. We’ve seen them do so with Rumple countless times, and we even saw them do it with Hook at the end of 5A.
The writers have kinda sorta drawn on RL Stevenson before with the oblique nod to Captain Silver, and Treasure Island, but never fully committed. But Jekyll and Hyde do seem like a rather random choice aside from the possibility of using Dr. Jekyll’s MacGuffin — excuse me, serum — to get Regina back to EQ.
But I do wonder, how effective would this whole thing be? If the plot is the recuperation of the science vs magic story, with yet another instantiation of the previously half-baked Rumple is evil and goes after Henry, who is suddenly against magic — I mean, not every half-baked draft that ended up in their metaphorical trash bin needs to be resurrected. This story would have been great on the heels of S1 because this was exactly what S1 was setting up. But now — I just don’t see how these past few seasons have set up anything, period. It’s just aimless hopping from one flashy plot point and romance-driven hand wringing to the next. I don’t personally sense an overarching narrative structure. Also, Henry’s now what, 15? What might have been cute and understandable when he was 10 (magic causes misery, lets get rid of ALL MAGIC) is not going to come across in the same way from a teenager, who is, presumably, capable of much more sophisticated, complex, non-linear thinking.
You said it yourself with Rumple — they’ve done this. And done this. And done this some more. Too much plot recycling and flip flopping on a character, and the whole thing will start feeling like they’re peddling the TV version of pre-owned chewing gum.
They’ve more or less ruined Rumple’s character to the point where even Robert Carlyle’s amazing acting talent can’t really salvage it. And that takes some serious ineptitude. I really don’t want Regina’s character to suffer the same fate.
^^
Good point about Zades – I haven’t actually thought of that but yes, he got exactly what he wanted. Tearing up he contract — if it in fact WAS the real thing — didn’t make much of a dent in Hades’s plans. In other words, TLK is just another MacGuffiny deus ex machina device that works or doesn’t to fulfill the needs of the plot.
And actually, now that I think of it, it’s really morphing in the last few season into some sort of merit badge. Who is gonna get a gold star on their relationship homework? This week, it’s Zelena and Hades! Oh and Rumbelle fails again — booh! Next week, it will be some other random new and shiny couple!
What a truly vapid message.
