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@Mich7 wrote:

I think she was talking about Regina getting Henry back at the time she started talking about the plot. I’m wondering if Cora may not try and use Rumple to kill Emma…since Cora couldn’t crush her heart herself…maybe she thinks Rumple can off her …

Love that idea!

@slurpeez108 wrote:

Barbara: “Who is Regina’s enemy, fundamentally, once and for all? And that is the point of the whole thing. Who is Regina’s REAL enemy? Who is it that killed Regina’s happiness?”
Other chick: “Well it was her mother.”
Barbara: “But in CORA’S point of view?……Think about the whooooooooooole thing, at the beginning of the series, and you’ll see what they’re going for.”

@Phee wrote:

It’s just that she was making it sound like it’ll be some big new revelation that’ll make us look at things differently. Rumple screwing over Regina her whole life isn’t exactly a new revelation, I mean, DUH! 😆 Was about to say that maybe Regina didn’t realise the full extent of the manipulation, but then I remembered how I’d assumed that she’d figured out that Jefferson, Viktor and Rumple all conspired against her and set her up, (which is why she made sure that Viktor was cursed, and it explains her extra special disdain for Jefferson), so that wouldn’t really fit as a big twist for me either, if it’s Regina discovering what a pawn she’d been in Rumple’s game.

I beg to differ on this one. Granted, Regina has been catching on ever since S1 that Mr. Gold had some major secrets up his sleeve. Yet, I think it will still come as a major shock to Regina just how much Rumple has made her life a living misery. There are a lot of reasons I believe Regina could be blindsided by Rumplestiltskin’s expert manipulation over her life. Who is Regina’s real enemy? It’s not Snow White. It’s not even Cora. It’s Rumplestiltskin.

My mind keeps returning to the prophesy that Rumplestiltskin gave Snow White and Prince Charming about how the savior would return and the final battle would begin. That was at the very beginning of the show in the very first episode. Well, from Cora’s perspective, Rumplestiltskin stole Regina away from her, the miller’s daughter, even after she tried so hard to secure Regina’s freedom as a baby from Rumple’s control. Yet, Rumple orchestrated events such that he still managed to trick Regina into banishing her own mother to Wonderland and then to practice dark magic. Something tells me Cora’s “peace offering” is just a deploy in her greater quest to get revenge on Rumple by controlling him after he sought to control her and Regina. Despite how controlling and evil Cora is, one might argue that from her perspective, everything she did was done out of love to prevent Regina from becoming Rumple’s pawn to enact the dark curse. In Cora’s viewpoint, Rumple betrayed her and Regina, and there is going to be a final battle, no doubt in my mind.

That’s an excellent point. Looking at it from Cora’s perspective, like Barbara suggested we do, Rumple would be in the position of being the big bad. Regina certainly didn’t know all of Rumple’s motivations, and the finer points of his manipulation, but I do think that she knew enough that it wouldn’t be an overwhelming shock to her system if she discovers the whole truth now. I think that Regina thought that with the casting of this curse, she finally had the upper hand in her relationship with Rumple. She was finally his superior, and could look down on him as such. All that stuff in season 1 was her realising piece by piece that that really wasn’t the case after all, as her schemes came unraveling at the seams when Rumple’s schemes sliced through them.

Regarding Rumple, I don’t think Regina has yet fully realized how much she was his pawn in practicing dark magic or by enacting the dark curse. I think Regina has yet to fully realize the truth of the events that took place in The Doctor 2×5 or that Rumplestiltskin set up Dr. Whale being unable to bring Daniel back to life, otherwise she’d have stopped falling for Mr. Gold’s contuning manipulations of events.

I think that she spent her life, both as EQ and in SB, trying to best Rumple, and when she thought she had, she considered them to be on a more level playing field. Even as he started to shatter that notion in SB, I think she was still clinging to the hope that she’d learned enough by then to keep trying to play him at his own game.

With regards to her poor relationship with Jefferson, we don’t know what happened between the events of 1×17 and 2×5 that made Jefferson give up his realm-jumping ways or to cause a rift between him and Regina. In 1×21, Regina and Jefferson had a conversation that struck me as odd, since the events of 2×5 make it clear they both knew who Daniel was. Jefferson acts like he’s forgotten how important Daniel was to Regina when she shows him her magic ring, and Regina doesn’t hold it against Jefferson for being uninformed. IMO, Regina doesn’t know Jefferson was in on a ploy with Rumple to make it seem like Victor couldn’t bring back her deceased fiancé.

That does seem to be a plothole that he didn’t know who Daniel was. Unless it’s one thing Regina did wipe from his mind. I just think that there had to be an extra special reason that Regina cursed Jefferson to remember, so he could experience the agony of not being with the person he loved most in the world…so close, yet so far, never being able to be with the one he loved. In giving him that specific curse, she played him just like he played her with the Daniel farce…getting her so close, but never with the intention of letting her be reunited with her love…which is why I think she figured it out and gave him that specific punishment in SB.

Despite questioning Rumple’s motives for wanting the curse broken, she’s never even stopped to consider how much he orchestrated her entire family’s sad history just so he could be reunited with his son, Baelfire. I bet Regina doesn’t even know Mr. Gold has a son! When Regina does hear this from Cora, who seems to know everything about Rumple, including the history with his son, about the full design of the dark curse, and about his dagger, I think Regina is going to want revenge against him, too.

It would make her mad as hell, for sure. Like I said earlier in the post, I dunno that it’d be a complete shock to her, because she knows what a devious bugger Rumple is, but it would certainly inspire her to team up with Cora to help get Rumple. So maybe that is the “true enemy” bit that Barbara was alluding to. It just seemed to me, from the way she said it, that it was something that was a revelation to her as a viewer, as well as being something major for Regina. Perhaps I misinterpreted her comments though. We shall soon see.

While I prefer Lana Parrilla in Evil Queen mode over Regina being sad and mopey, I was really annoyed that she was either dumb and/or too arrogant last season not to get that Rumple had his own agenda and wasn’t on her side at all at various times last season.

That was actually some of my fave stuff, because I always laughed and shook my head when silly Regina went off half cocked and was bested by my man Rumple yet again. I loved re-living those moments, reading the quotes that slurpeez posted. 😛

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@Vampirefan12 wrote:

I want to know who Rum’s father is too and the spinsters that raised Rum when he was younger.

Something random and sort of out there that just popped into my head…in the Disney version of Sleeping Beauty, she was taken away by the three good fairies who raised her until her 16th birthday. Those fairies couldn’t be these spinsters, could they? In the movie, one of them was dressed in blue…like I said, it’s a random, crackpot theory…but how perfectly messed up would it be if Blue was one of three fairies who raised Rumple as a child after he lost both his parents.

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OK, didn’t Barbara Burnett say in her spoilers when someone asked her about Belle betraying Rumple that that was not the case? Or am I remembering that wrong? I guess if she doesn’t do it knowingly, it doesn’t really count as betrayal?

Even though it’s gonna rip my heart out, I like that they’re gonna show Rumple making the mistake of not asking for specifics. It sets up how he crafts his words later in life, when he’s making deals with silly people who don’t consider the situation properly.

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@ItachiIshtar wrote:

I wonder if the “blatant lie” is that Emma lies to Henry yet again about Neal, as a way to cover up for her previous lie. She might not be ready to let Henry know, and she’ll just tell Henry that “he’s just Gold’s son. Nothing more.”

Yes, that’s what first popped into my head regarding the lie as well. Emma’s already gonna have enough of an emo mess to deal with without compounding it by risking Henry lashing out at her when he finds out she lied about his dad being dead. So I could see her not telling him the full truth about Neal just yet.

@em28 wrote:

I think the person who gets ‘royally screwed over’ is Hook. Because Cora and Regina are royal, and also Cora and Regina are bound to screw him over at some point. It makes sense because Cora and Hook want different things with the dagger, and Hook wants to kill Rumple, meaning he will become the Dark One, which will mean he will be more powerful than Cora.

My original thought on this was that it’d be that reveal of Regina’s true enemy that we’re supposed to be getting. But having seen a couple of people suggest Hook, that makes more sense to me in relation to this particular spoiler. I can totally see Regina and Cora casting him aside when they have no more use for him.

@Vampirefan12 wrote:

Suffice it to say, do not miss the final 30 seconds of Sunday’s episode.

Have made the executive decision that this is one of those times when I need to find an online stream to watch in real time, because I won’t be able to wait those few extra hours I usually do when I just download the show.

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@slurpeez108 wrote:

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Also, the fact that Nealfire has been running for a long time might lend some credence to the idea that he is Nealfire Pan and was in Neverland for quite some time and is recently in our world: like 28 years recent.

Yes! I was hesitant to bring up this theory here since it’s been posted in other threads, but I agree with you. Neal being on the run really does fit in nicely with him being Peter Pan.

Depends on one’s definition of a “long time”, but for someone like Rumple, you’d think that 28 years wouldn’t be considered that long, given that he’s been around for about 300. So I’m liking this as a nod to Bae having been on the run in Neverland for quite some time, before eventually landing in our world.

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Maybe his mother died in childbirth and his father was never around or actually LEFT Rumple. If so, it would make motherhood a really noble endeavor in Rumple’s mind as well as being a good father. So when Milah becomes like she was in “The Crocodile” it’s a real slap in the face because Rumple was a good papa Pre-Dark One and Milah loved her son, but did leave him, something that happened to Rumple so he understood it. And then he went and did exactly what his father did. Oh man. Issues, guys. Issues.

SO many issues! 😥 It just adds so much more gravity to the “coward” theme if Rumple’s goal in life had been to be anything but a coward, but ended up with the label anyway. And I suspect he didn’t even actually do anything particularly cowardly to earn that label either, which would make it an even bigger slap in the face.

Given the tweet where Gold is telling Henry that seeing the future isn’t an exact science, I’m thinking that the Seer tells Rumple about his son, and about how he’s going to lose him. So, fearing that his newborn son is in danger, he runs home to protect him. In doing so, he somehow earns the coward tag, which sets in motion the events that did actually lead to him losing his son. Self fulfilling prophecy is a real bugger!!!

@ItachiIshtar wrote:

And another!

Yesterday in another thread, I posted that perhaps his piratey skill that he was apparently gonna use to deduce something about the dagger was that he’d school Cora and Regina in the finer points of buried treasure. I said it half jokingly, so when I saw this tweet, I literally LOLd. 😆

[Phee]

Ah, finally an answer as to the state of August’s body. I’d figured he was still a chunk of wood. Maybe this will be where he fesses up to Emma about how he screwed her over, and then eavesdropping Blue will make him human again as a reward for finally being honest? Looks like he’s on the ground, in a reclining position, like he was in the scene where Blue originally made him a real boy, so it’d be a nice little mirror to that scene, especially if Geppetto pops up here too.

[Phee]

@King Arthur wrote:

Maybe when Storybrook formed it somehow caused an accident (maybe car accident) that caused Owen’s mother to die and turned Ben into a widower.

That would certainly make for a nice parallel to Greg’s car crash entry to town. It wouldn’t instantly convince me that Owen is youngGreg, but it’d certainly be a good way of explaining how outsiders could have gotten stuck in SB back in the day.

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@oceangypsy wrote:

As for where the chase occurs, my bet is Manhattan or Phuket. Probably not SB.

Phuket is definitely another option. Looking at the avi of the girl who tweeted about being an extra in the scene, I could buy her as being a Phuket local.

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@oceangypsy wrote:

I asked my friend where the spoiler came from. It was an extra who was on set. She posted about the scene on Twitter, but has since deleted the tweets. You can read the transaction here to see the reactions of other Twitter users.

I know the person chasing him was a woman. I’m assuming it’s gotta be Tamara.

Thanks for the link! And 😆 at her first tweet at the top of the page.

Wonder if this was on the SB set or the NYC set? The other day I was wondering if Tamara was perhaps spying on Neal for Blue. I’ve always thought that August was working for Blue when he found Neal and Emma, and after that, he ran off to Phuket and didn’t come back until the dramas with his leg. So perhaps Tamara is another “agent” for Blue, who was sent to check on Neal because August was still MIA. She’s sitting inside, behind a big window, when Neal and August are talking outside. She may have been sent to find Neal, but then also found August as a bonus, so tried to contact him as well, knowing he’s someone Blue is interested in. I’d figured that was all just my imagination running riot as per usual, but now with the news of a woman chasing August through a crowd…I wonder. (BTW, I’m assuming that this stuff with August, Neal, and Tamara fits in the timeline back when August was on his way to SB.)

[Phee]

@Mich7 wrote:

The article said go back to the beginning…got any other ideas? They are supposed to be drawing up sides now…I doubt Rumple and Regina will be on the same side regardless if The Miller’s Daughter is any indication. I suppose a surprise could be the Blue Fairy…she was there at the start with Rumple and Bae which threw this whole thing in motion.

Ah, now you’re talking, that’s a twist that I would actually consider to be a twist, because most viewers don’t consider her to be dodgy, (though I personally wouldn’t be surprised if she ends up being the ultimate puppetmaster).

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