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Was just posting in another thread about how he took that beating on the boat because he felt he deserved the pain, like it was a release for all the emotional pain he’s been dealing with since the day he failed to protect Milah.
For all the nasty crap he’s done, I can’t help it, my heart broke into a frillion pieces for the guy in this ep because his grief and anger is so all consuming and personally destructive.
[adrotate group="5"]Claude! We hardly knew ye, but congrats on getting some back story. 😉
Liked the disagreement between the Charmings and am looking forward to seeing how they resolve it. Also liked Snow’s little mention of how she’d imagined a bigger house, “with turrets.” 😉
For all the spoilers I’d read, I did NOT see the part with Philip coming. Was a cool little twist, and I’m glad we got to see how he and Mulan met, because they always seemed like a really random pairing, but now it makes sense.
@Elle wrote:
I really did love how smart Belle was, but I also thought that she was a little too eager–particularly her storyline in Fariytale Land. The way she approaches the cave with a dagger to kill the demon, all my herself, with no real plan was really silly.
Dude, for real! Good on her for having a go, but seriously, you’re gonna go face a demonic beast while only holding a freakin’ letter opener? 😆 Other than that, I liked what they did with her this ep, having her using her knowledge and wits as she went seeking her adventure.
One other random Belle observation…whoever in FTL made her Wonderbra, I’d like to put in an order for one plz.
@Rbmom wrote:
@Princess wrote:
Ok…have to rethink my logic here and bet 2kfl 138 is a reference to Peter Pan…
I agree. One interpretation of 2KFL 138 as a vanity plate is “took flight”
Good thinking! There have also been theories that he could be the Wizard of Oz, who is another character who “took flight”. I’m more inclined to the Peter theory though, (even though part of me would still love Bae to be Peter).
@AntBee wrote:
I think part of Hook would hate Bae because of who his father is, and he might irrationally blame Bae somewhat for Milah’s death. On the other hand, he couldn’t part with Bae’s shawl because Milah made it, so I think that part of Hook would win out when it came to Bae. While I love to see Hook when he is in villain mode, I also think that it would help give him much needed depth if he in were in scenes with someone else where he didn’t try to “charm” them and he didn’t harm or try to harm the other person, and the other person didn’t end up using him as a punching bag at the end. Not saying that scenes with Nealfire would be like that because he could try to harm Nealfire or vice versa, but they could try to build up some kind of relationship there. Maybe they would both be using each other in that they would both want to inflict pain on Rumple, but at least it would be a nice change of pace from the pattern that Hook has going on now where it’s flirt shamelessly, harm/bully someone else, and end up in serious physical pain.)
Really eager to see how Hook would relate to Bae, (assuming he’s Neal and will likely be turning up in SB at some point). Having had it confirmed that Hook is still very much attached to the memory of Milah, it’ll be fascinating to see how he’d interact with her son. Hope it happens because as you say, it’d be an opportunity for them to give some depth to Hook.
However, I didn’t love how quickly Archie’s “death” was resolved. Not that I wanted them to drag it out for a really long time, but I think it would have made more of an impact if it wasn’t resolved in the very next episode to give Regina time to really think things were hopeless. Also, what took Archie so long to get to the Charmings other than just the writers trying to be all dramatic. I also agree with EvilQueen that the actors in that scene were all flat, so it didn’t have as much impact as it should have had, and the flip-flopping of Henry was really bizarre too. Maybe if we had seen more moments of him struggling to believe that Regina really killed Archie, the flip-flopping at the end would have made sense.
Yes, I was hoping he’d be missing for a few eps, so it was a bit of a bummer to have him set free so soon. And I agree with those who didn’t think the scene with him, Emma and Henry really rang true. For a moment there I was expecting Emma to be all, “Step away from him Henry, we don’t know for sure that it’s even Archie,” though I guess the fact that Pongo was happy to see him was a relatively good indicator he was legit. A bit more confusion and shock would have improved that scene a lot.
Speaking of dragging things out and missed opportunities, now it seems like we’ll never get any closure on the Archie, Marco, and Blue Fairy wardrobe debacle since Eion Bailey will be leaving soon, and they haven’t even mentioned August/Pinocchio at all since “Lady of the Lake”. August isn’t one of my favorite characters especially after “Tallahassee”, but it’s just ridiculous how the show dropped the ball on that story line.
Has there been any word about Eion’s other show being picked up? Even if so, I’d like to think that they could schedule him to come back for an ep here and there so they can wrap up Pinocchio’s storylines. Hadn’t really expected to see him again yet though, because I figured he wouldn’t be back until Neal is.
I also hated how Cora wasn’t seen in this episode. I understand that Barbara Hershey’s time might be limited, but couldn’t they have come up with something better than just having her conveniently not around Hook’s ship when Belle goes aboard. Likewise, where was Hook’s crew?
Guess she was out and about, spying on Regina, instead of hanging around the boat? She’s a proactive one, that Cora. Not one to sit on her arse and wait for stuff to happen. As for Hook’s crew, I wasn’t really expecting them to be there. Smee got sucked into the curse, so I could buy that anyone else in the crew was outside the bubble too. I got the impression that Hook and Cora were the only ones on the boat when it sailed into SB.
@playarita wrote:
5. That said will Rumple try and woo Belle again (whoever her counterpart is) but with her being a person of this world she might be unable to “love” him the way Belle had unless her spirit who she was in Fairytale Land still exists deep down.
Can’t wait to see how Rumbelle progresses (or not) now. Surely they’ll get it together eventually, and he’ll figure out how to get her memories back, but in the meantime it’ll be interesting to see how she reacts to him. I mean, if she’s gotta ask people around her who the strange man is, it’s not like they’re gonna paint a pretty picture for her.
@wizard55 wrote:
I agree that I can’t believe hook just took the beating and didn’t even fight back.
Perhaps he felt he deserved it, for not having been able to protect Milah? If he’s been beating himself up emotionally for it for a couple of centuries, then taking the physical pain for it too might be some sort of release for him. There’s a whole lotta pain in that scene coming from both men, and both of their suffering is connected to the one woman. It’s heartbreaking, powerful stuff. Robert and Colin both rocked this ep!
Haven’t had the chance to watch The Outsider yet, but had to peek at these promos, coz I’m impatient like that.
@Naomi wrote:
Oh I hope so! What sort of spell would requre a kiss? And it’s not just Cora kissing Rumple…she leans in an *he* actually kisses her. 😕 Well, Robert did say in an interview that 2×12/2×13 woud be shocking…oh, boy. (Thinking about what that could mean is killing me right now.)
I dunno, looks to me like after they shake, she takes it upon herself to get a bit too cosy, and there’s nothing he can do to get away, even if he wanted to. I’ll be surprised if it turns into a real kiss. More likely that half a second later he pulls away and spits out the CoraCooties.
PS. Emilie knows how to scream. Dayum.
One of my other theories, (there are many random ones floating around in my head 😆 ) is that Rumple had originally intended for Cora to be the one to enact his curse, and the “giving him her first born” thing was actually that Regina was originally intended as the Saviour, (have also thought that perhaps Regina was the “thing she loved most” that Cora had to sacrifice, but am now thinking maybe it was Henry Sr who was meant to be the sacrifice…which he eventually was anyway, the poor bugger), which would explain why Cora seemed to know a bit about the curse. If it proved true that he originally wanted Cora to enact the curse, then she wouldn’t have needed to wield the dagger to force Rumple into teaching her magic, he probably would have been keen to do it, like he was with Regina years later.
I could see Rumple having taken Henry’s father’s kingdom for himself and kicking the whole family out when his curse enaction plans fell through. He ended up living in a big old castle somehow.
I think perhaps the truth did come out that she had been a fraud. Otherwise, why weren’t Henry and Cora ruling as king and queen? Why did Cora need to get her daughter to be a queen, to fulfill her own failed ambitions? Up until these spoilers, had anyone suspected that Henry Sr was royalty? I hadn’t, which had confused me a bit, because the miller’s daughter was supposed to have married into royalty, and it didn’t look like she had. So I think that the truth came out somehow, and maybe Henry was demoted, so to speak, from his royal inheritance, or maybe Henry’s father’s kingdom ended up in ruin, so there was nothing for Henry and Cora to be king and queen of. Then Cora had to make all of those unspeakable deals to keep living in a manner she felt she deserved.
But whatever information came out, Cora never told anyone Rumple’s name, because she probably felt that by being the only one to know it, it gave her some power over him, which allowed her to make all those deals. Maybe she did find out about the dagger’s power at some point. Maybe that’s why Rumple set it up for her to be sent to Wonderland, because he was afraid of her getting her hands on it. But I think that if she’d had the dagger from the beginning and knew how powerful it was, there’s no way she’d have given it up. She’d have stabbed the bugger ASAP and taken the power for herself.
Is the “whispers of a man” bit you’re thinking of when Red told Snow about him? I wasn’t sure if his name was mentioned there, so I looked up the transcript:
Red: Well, there are whispers. Whispers of a man who can achieve even the most unholy of requests. A man who can do what you ask.Snow White: Who is this man?
Then when Snow goes to see him:
Snow White: So you’re Rumpelstiltskin?Rumpelstiltskin: Indeed, I am.
So his name was in use by then, if Red knew it to tell to Snow. But it wasn’t common knowledge before Regina met him. If it was, Henry Sr wouldn’t have made a point of saying he didn’t know his name, and Regina wouldn’t have had to steal the spell book to find his name out.
Back in the day, before he was the Dark One, everyone obviously knew his name. Then he became the Dark One, and as his reputation grew, everyone mostly called him “The Dark One” and so over the next couple hundred years, his actual name was eventually forgotten, as all those who had known him by that name died out. So by the time of his dealings with Cora, I think that his name had become redundant and forgotten. Then some years later, around the time he began dealings with Regina, his name started to be used again. Just went and had a quick look at the transcript for The Doctor and Regina uses his name in front of Jefferson, who later uses the name too, so it was starting to be used again around that time. By the time they had him locked up in the Pilot, the guard was calling out his name, so it was certainly no secret by that point. But I maintain that it had to have been secret at some point, just because Henry Sr of all people would have known it if that bit of info had leaked out. It wouldn’t have been a big secret that Regina had to discover by stealing the spell book.
@AllThatGlitters wrote:
This may be a little more far fetched but Hook could align himself with Emma/Charmings. He would have to go against Cora in order to do that. Emma didn’t seem too upset when Hook said he wanted to kill Rumpel. I could see Hook form an alliance with the good guys against Cora if it benefits himself in some way. That would give him some protection against Rumpel.
That could be an interesting dynamic if Hook became part of TeamCharmings, and maybe not completely far fetched. He did a couple of favours for Emma the last time they saw each other, getting Aurora’s heart back, and letting Emma win the swordfight. Of course, he didn’t really lose anything by losing that fight, because he had his bean as a backup plan even if he lost the compass, but still, he did help Emma and Snow get home, and that was even after Emma had left him with the Giant, so they may feel that they owe him for that, and may be open to aligning with him in SB, should the need arise. It could help his case that he knows stuff about Cora, and everyone will be wanting to take her out, so he could be a valuable asset to have on their side.
That could also allow for a bit of a love triangle situation, (I know, I know *groan* everyone hates love triangles, but bear with me here ;)), if Hook’s trying to crack onto Emma while they’re working together, and if Neal is also in town by then and hoping to reconcile with her, and Emma being stuck in the middle, not necessarily feeling ready to get involved with either of them, (because she’s got her hands full dealing with her kid who is pissed because she’d told him his dad was dead). Add to that, if Neal is Bae, the emo conflict going on with him and Rumple, and trying to decide if he’s willing to reconcile with his father, but wanting to side with Emma, in part to stay close to her so Hook doesn’t get his claws in while they’re working together. Could lead to some juicy drama as everyone tries to make sense of their various relationships.
@slurpeez108 wrote:
TV Line has a few spoilers for us:
All told, Horowitz says the episode “The Outsider” — guest-starring Ethan Embry (Can’t Hardly Wait) as the titular “test subject” Mr. Gold uses to experiment with the town line’s memory-sapping qualities —
How on earth does that work, if Ethan’s character is some random who comes barreling into town? Or have we got his role in this all wrong? It has been stated that he’s coming from our world into SB, right? So a) he’s not a textbook cursed SBer case, and 2) he’s not someone Rumple would know. Or am I mis-remembering the spoilers? This ep needs to air already to save me from confusion. 😛
I think it’s still his name that’s the secret, and the key to Cora getting out of the deal, because otherwise Henry Sr would have known it, but his name wasn’t common knowledge until years later. I think it’ll just be that Cora (or a spy for her) sees it written on the dagger, instead of hearing Rumple singing about it as he dances around a fire as in the traditional story.
@myril wrote:
A thing I noticed when rewatching the episode, in which Regina learns that her mother has become who she is because of Rumple (episode 2×02): Henry sr. tells his daughter, that Cora never told him the name of that man (aka Rumple), and that Cora and that man met before Henry sr. met Cora. Something to bear in mind for story ideas and theory building.
That’s something that I’d thought could have suggested that the Miller’s Daughter story with Rumple may have involved another king, potentially George, and Henry Sr came into the story later, after she got out of her deal to marry the king. But now we know that Henry Sr was indeed royalty, and the one involved in the Once version of the Miller’s Daughter story. I liked that they kept that air of secrecy surrounding Rumple’s name back then, because it certainly wasn’t like that in the latter days of FTL, which some had questioned as being a bit inconsistent.
