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PoC characters get disposed of proportionately far more often than white characters. I’d wager this is true of wider television too(it’s certainly true of queer characters).
When you talk about “PoC characters get disposed of proportionately far more often than white characters”, are you talking about in terms of all the POC characters get written out in some form or 10 POC characters have been written out as opposed to so many white characters?
Slurpeez wrote: Ariel, Wendy, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Ruby, Archie, Dr. Whale All of these people got their happy endings (maybe not Dr. Whale…?) and have often come back to the show. They are not treated like props to be disposed of when the show is done. They keep coming back or being referenced in order to flesh them out more. Even recently, Ella was mentioned in passing. When was the last time we heard about Rapunzel?
But my point was those “happy endings” were also rushed, sloppy and only served to prop up the core 6 characters. I’m not justifying the lack of racial diversity. My point though is that every secondary character is just a prop. The lack of diversity and the treatment of minority characters won’t improve until (1) the writers learn how to incorporate past characters (e.g. Lancelot, Mulan) and/or (2) cast a POC as a new regular next season (e.g. Aladin and Jasmine)
Agreed. Tinkerbell just disappeared off the face of the earth and isn’t seen or mentioned now. I hope we see Mulan again, there is more story potential for her. I’d also like to see the core characters actually interact with people around the town.
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Keeper of FelixIt’s a shame there aren’t more PoC who’re regulars. As I wrote, A&E had a real chance to bring in a new character who was a PoC after Neal was killed, but instead brought in Will Scarlet, a white man. The shortcoming of the writers is two-fold: (1) shiny toy syndrome and (2) lack of racial diversity among the core cast.
I agree. I don’t know why they’ve even brought in Will to be honest, he’s got no storylines of his own. It seems Will is the new Ruby.
Question about racial diversity among the core cast: Are we talking actual race or skin colour? Lana is latina so there is some diversity but she’s a white latina therefore the core cast is all white?
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Keeper of FelixI wouldn’t necessarily call it racism for the reason that racism is bullying based on someone’s race or skin colour
That is not how racism is defined.
Racism is: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
So being able to group all the PoC in OUAT as “disposable” that’s racism because none of them have been fleshed out at all. They all serve the same purpose because they are all “the same” to the writers.
Racism is a set of beliefs, either intentional or unintentional, not a series of actions taken based on belief.
I stand corrected.
However I stand by the point that it’s not just POC characters that get “disposed” of, it happens to white characters too.
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Keeper of FelixDid they have to cast white actors for Anna/Elsa
Yes. It seems like they only got permission to use Frozen if they kept the characters as close to their movie counterparts as possible and since movie Anna and Elsa were white……
It’s inexcusable, and yes, it’s racist. On top of amazingly heteronormative, not that most TV shows aren’t but when they KNOW they have such a huge queer & PoC fanbase this just becomes all the more ridiculous. Even if they delivered on SQ, a queer inter-racial couple, it doesn’t change the overall story being such a rough ride that made this instance look like an extreme exception instead of a healthy progression.
SQ isn’t happening and it’s not because they’re both women. There is too much history between Regina and Emma’s family. If none of that history had happened and Regina was just the woman who adopted Henry who might still have been an evil queen but without the Snow connection, then I might’ve rooted for SQ as a romantic pairing. But as it currently stands, the Snow connection makes SQ unable to work romantically, still ship them as a friendship though.
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Keeper of FelixUnintentional racism is still racism. Do I think A and E are setting out to be racist? No. Certainly not. But the way they write the PoC on this show does come across as being unintentionally racist, with no one it the writing room realizing it. It’s an issue when every single PoC on the show is being treated the way they are being treated.
I can see your point however I wouldn’t necessarily call it racism for the reason that racism is bullying based on someone’s race or skin colour. Bullying is the persistent and DELIBERATE intent to belittle and cause feelings of negativity and low self-worth in others. Whilst the lack of POC certainly does seem to be a recurring thing, if A&E
aren’t deliberately doing it then it’s not bullying which means it’s not racism. But I can totally see why it does appear that way.And the story they keep writing is that PoC are easily disposed of or secretly white people. It’s…an issue.
It is an issue but there also plenty of white characters that just disappear and what not so it’s not just an issue that’s relegated to POC characters.
Zelena being alive does not necessitate Marian dying in the way past, or as someone else put it, before the show actually had to deal with her in any meaningful way. She spent most of 4A passed out, and then in her big return: she’s been dead all along and is really a white woman. And on top of this, we actually saw a really strong woman in Marian in the EF flashbacks. It’s insult to injury.
Again I think it’s more a case of A&E didn’t know what to do with Marian beyond using her as an obstacle for OQ which backfired on them rather than them deliberately side-lining Marian because she’s a POC.
If they’d made Mulan instead of Will a regular, the fandom would have cheered. They could have given Cruella whatever she wants before Ursula. A thousand little choices that they’ve made that could add up to a more diverse and interesting cast.
I agree. Will hasn’t got a purpose in Once so having Mulan instead would’ve presented more story opportunities IMO. I’m quite enjoying Cruella on the show so I’m glad they didn’t get rid of her too early but I would’ve like Ursula to stick around longer. They should’ve got rid of Maleficent and kept Ursula on.
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Keeper of FelixThere are almost no Muslim/Middle Eastern character on TV in positive roles, possibly due to the fact that the US(And much of the non muslim world) is violently Islamophobic.
I disagree. I don’t think the “non muslim” world is violently islamophobic. Yes you will get certain individuals who group the entire muslim community as part of Isis but those views are not shared by everyone. To group all “Non muslims” into the “violently islamophobic” box is unfair.
In Britain there are muslim characters on TV in positive roles. There is the Masood family in Eastenders and there is the Siddiqui family on Gogglebox.
To group a whole set of people based on the actions and behaviour of a few individuals is wrong.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it racist.
The way I’ve referred to the big shocker since we first figured out what it is, “It’s a plot device to fix the failed plot device.” The failed plot device was re-introducing Marian at the end of 3B. But then adding Marian back into the mix made Robin look like a jerk, but it made Regina look like a saint. And of course, there was a negative backlash from fans. A lot of Outlaw Queen fans were turned off by that love triangle. Adam and Eddy, being the trolls that they are, needed a quick fix — enter Zelena.
Zelena was the answer to fixing the failed plot device, Marian in this case.
I also think, Adam and Eddy don’t write to fill quotas. They write a story.
I agree. I don’t think the writers are being racist. They’re not going out of their way to belittle or demonise POC. It is unfortunate that POC character do seem to drop off the radar easily but there are also white characters that have suffered the same treatment, it’s not just the POC characters this is happening to. It is perhaps more noticeable with the POC characters, but again, it’s not just them it is happening to. The lack of POC on the show is rather unfortunate, but at worse I think it is a lack of foresight on the writers’ part rather than an actual bias. The writers bring in all these characters then don’t know what to do with them once they get past a certain point so they just forget about them and move on to the next shiny set of characters that catches their eye.
I agree with your point about trying to fix the Marian plot device. The writers hoped that people would be rooting for OQ over Robin/Marian. However they made the mistake of having Regina be the reason Marian is dead (and last episode didn’t really fix that, Regina was still the one that tried to kill Marian in the past). People started rooting for Marian over Regina and there was a backlash which is not what the writers wanted so they decided to make Marian not-Marian to try and push OQ into a more favourable light. (All it has done is push Regina into a less favourable light IMO).
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Keeper of FelixI wrote this as I watched the episode.
Liked:
Emma calling her parents out on what they did- I like the fact that Emma is rightly horrified at what her parents and is ignoring their excuses for trying to justify what they did. “We were manipulated” doesn’t matter, you still made the decision to use someone else’s child as a sacrifice for your own selfish wants.
Mixed:
The nod to the Dustin Hoffman movie Midnight Cowboy- As it cuts to Robin and “Marian” getting off the bus in Manhattan, you can hear someone shout “I’m walking here!”. It just seemed like an odd thing to stick in there for no reason.
The Rumple/Robin conversation outside the hospital- I liked what Rumple said about happiness and about how he had it but let it go etc and how Rumple basically told Robin to chose Regina. I dislike Robin’s part in the conversation. Firstly, yet again he’s not making an actual decision of his own, Rumple is all but having to spell it out for him to choose Regina. Secondly, Rumple has nowhere else to go and Robin’s answer is basically “Sorry that your homeless but never mind, here’s some of your dead son’s things that are cluttering up the place”. Where the hell is the compassion?
Regina acknowledges that Zelena MURDERED Neal- If Regina acknowledges that, then why the hell was she so gung ho for giving Zelena another chance in Kansas? Now that it’s Robin in the firing line, Regina’s not about to throw a welcome home party for Zelena. Regina is a massive hypocrite.
Disliked:
Regina giving Robin the keys to Neal’s apartment- Rumple has more right to be there than Robin does and the fact Robin point blankly refuses to leave when Rumple tells him to get out of his son’s apartment is wrong. It annoys me when the “heroes” throw their wait around like that. Regina had no right to give Neal’s apartment away to Robin like that, it wasn’t hers to give and she’s not even Neal’s next of kin or related.
The implication that Belle, by banishing Rumple, unwittingly sent him out to die- Belle banished Rumple because it meant everyone would be safe from him without having to control him or kill him. Belle would have never sent Rumple to die.
Robin saying he wouldn’t turn his back on a dying man and can’t just let him die because of his code yet was about to do that exactly two scenes beforehand- This is very hypocritical. Robin only has a code when it suits him. Especially when Robin then blackmails said dying man into giving up his dead son’s apartment so that Robin would give him the potion that enables him to live. Robin also lies to Will in flashback. Robin’s “code of honour” is laughable and not in a funny way.
Zelena being Marian- The idea itself was so clearly to fix OQ but the execution was so poor it fixes nothing. Regina was still going to murder the real Marian in the flashback. The OQ drama in 4A was a waste of time. Lets see how forgiving Regina is of Zelena this time around when she’s the actual one who’s suffered. Chances are she won’t be giving any more “heroes don’t kill” speeches.
Zelena taunting Rumple over Neal’s death- It just shows what a callous witch she is and I hope she gets what’s coming to her. It makes Regina’s actions in Kansas even more stupid and hypocritical. Zelena feels no remorse for what she did to Neal, she doesn’t want redemption. I am actually really annoyed with Regina now and there is nothing Regina can do now in regards to Zelena that won’t make Regina look bad. If she kills Zelena, Regina is just a massive hypocrite not that the shoe is on the other foot. If she lets Zelena live, then I am done with Regina. In one episode, the writers have effectively taken Regina’s character and crapped all over it.
Zelena- I want to punch her in the face. She is such a nasty piece of work, she should’ve been left dead.
Robin choosing Marian- Rumple all but said choose Regina and yet Robin still made the wrong decision. I would’ve been happy for him choosing Marian in 3B but now that she’s not Marian, it like “Is Robin going to flip flop yet again?” because no way are they going to leave Robin with Zelena. Come on Robin, man up and grow a pair of balls and actually make a decision.
Robin not contacting anyone in Storybrooke- He deleted Regina’s number but he still had Will’s, Charming’s and Emma’s number. He also had Granny’s Diner’s number and apparently “Marian” has a mobile number too despite not actually being around long enough in 4A to get one since she spent most of it Frozen.
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Keeper of FelixI think she’s pregnant too. Why else do a time jump like that?
Would explain some of the pictures of Lana we’ve seen. If Regina does have a baby what’s the odds she might call it Hope if it’s a girl?
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Keeper of FelixHere's one more #OnceUponATime #scripttease — hope to see you tonight! #WickedIsBack pic.twitter.com/YY0NcOrYe0
— Adam Horowitz (@AdamHorowitzLA) April 12, 2015
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Keeper of FelixQuote
Ah…but there’s another shocker that Sean Maguire says no one sees coming….that’s the one I’m a little worried about.
Is it different than the Zelena=Marian one?? If so, that may be interesting. Or incredibly bad. Like it could turn out Marian doesn’t actually exist and Zelena was her the ENTIRE time Robin knew her which means that Roland is actually ZELENA’S son and not Marian’s . So yeah. Imagine that.
Would explain why Roland has a light skin tone instead of a skin tone closer to Marian’s. However, if they did try and pull a “Marian never existed, it was Zelena all along” ploy then I’d be quite annoyed because not only would they be erasing yet another POC from the show, but it would seem like they only pulled this plot device to make OQ work. They’re already trying to fix OQ with the Marian=Zelena thing, to make Marian not have been real all along would be overkill.
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Keeper of Felix
