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Yep, if you watch the scene again he is very careful to say that when Emma didn’t show up he got worried about her and wanted to make sure she was okay – he knew she wasn’t sure about going in the first place so asking if she is okay makes perfect sense.
Then he talks to her about her concerns about Henry. At some point she says she isn’t ready yet but and then he talks to her about “moments” which could be directed toward both Neal or Hook since he never mentions either guy. It’s Emma who says “And you thinking having lunch with Neal would be a good moment.” He doesn’t say yes. He says something like “There’s only one way to find out” and then says he will drive her to Granny’s. Keep in mind that Neal asked her to meet him to TALK – Emma called it a date. Daddy Charming knows that Emma needs to talk to Neal whether she chooses him or not, so driving her to the diner isn’t pushing her toward Neal it’s making her deal with something she has to deal with even if she isn’t going to consider dating either of them. Then when Emma makes the comment about wondering if he isn’t pushing her toward Neal to keep her away from Hook – her never acknowledges that he is or isn’t pushing her toward Neal and cracks a joke to not show his opinion about Hook. So he was VERY careful to make sure he was only giving her general advice about letting her walls down and learning to enjoy moments in spite of the bad parts of life – not getting specific about either guy even when SHE tried to bring one of them up.
I don’t necessarily think he is CS but I think he knows that she really loves Hook. If he knows her well enough to be able to say twice in that episode that she and Snow are so much alike then he knows that she loves Hook. But he is being a good dad and letting her figure it out on her own because he knows she doesn’t like it when Snow gets pushy about Neal so he isn’t about to do the same thing with Hook. I think he wants Emma to choose who SHE wants to choose and who will make her happy. But I do think he thinks very highly of Hook after their time on NL. But since I don’t think he knows the back story on Emma and Neal yet I think he would be fine if Emma decided on SF. That’s why I liked Daddy Charming so much in this episode, he was just being a dad and being supportive of Emma – he wasn’t trying to tell her what to do or what he thought was right. He just gave her advice that he thought would help her be happy.
[adrotate group="5"]I loved Daddy Charming in the last episode. I feel like the flashback of Snowing was also meant to show us that he really knows how to handle Snow, and since he kept pointing out that Snow and Emma are so much alike he therefore also knows how to handle Emma now too. In the flashback what he basically did was give Snow advice but then let her figure things out on her own while being there to guide and protect her. I felt like that was exactly what he did with Emma.
And I think he recognizes that for some reason (that I haven’t exactly figure out yet) Snow isn’t quite as ready as he is to back off with pushing Neal. So I thought it was cute how when Snow said that Emma didn’t listen to them about meeting Neal he immediately said he had it and went to go get her. He knew that Emma did NOT need a lecture about Neal but just needed some fatherly advice.
But it is super interesting that NOTHING he said had anything to do with Neal or pushing her towards Neal. He know she loves Hook but he is being careful not to say or do anything that will put pressure on her. He thinks she needs to talk to Neal (which she does) but he is giving her advice so that she can let her walls down and choose the man she loves – who he KNOWS is Hook.
I think believing he was going to die made him decide that he needed to step up and be a dad, even though he thought he didn’t really know how. At the end of the day dealing with Emma is really no different than dealing with Snow when it comes to figuring out how handle her – they are the same age after all! It’s just a different kind of love. And he saw Hook prove himself to be an honorable man on NL and he made it very clear that he was doing everything for Emma. So Hook has been very upfront with Emma’s dad, which to someone like Charming will count for a lot. His response when Emma wondered if he was trying to keep her away from Hook was perfect. In my experience that’s how dads joke around with their daughters when they know they are interested in someone.
I’m hoping that Snow will follow Charming’s lead. I did like how she told Emma that she could relate to how she feels, even though Emma doesn’t think she can because being the Savior is different. I felt like that was the most MM moment we have had from her in a long time. But I’m wondering if it is going to take something major like whatever happens next week to be the bus that hits Snow and make her suddenly realize that Emma loves Hook and does NOT want Neal. Then I wonder if she is going to be like “Duh, why didn’t I understand how serious she was about Hook sooner???”
Its just like that boyfriend we have all had that tied us up in knots and we thought that the world would end without out him. Then down the line you find Mr Right and you say thank God for whatever caused our break or you would have missed out on the real and true relationship that you have now.
YES, THIS!! This is exactly how I feel. Go back to the guy you KNOW you cried over instead of giving the new guy who makes you happy a chance. You know, because you created a child together that you gave up for adoption and have no legal rights to. Because you are DESTINED to be with the man who allowed you to be shackled to the bed during the birth of said child, it is simply meant to be and oh so very romantic. You know the many ways you understand each other: how you can both hotwire a car, the way you can look across a empty convenience store at one another without saying a word, simply make eye contact and know that you have stolen enough frozen burritos and spam to last the next 3 days. And the memories, oh the memories. Remember your first home? Of course you remember it you’re still driving it. The 40 minute vacations to the Motel 6 complete with complimentary used toiletries. The first time you met, how it was so cute the way he lied to make sure you weren’t both arrested for grand theft auto. Working together as a loving couple to find a way to obtain and sell stolen merchandise – well that didn’t end so well. Times were hard but the important thing is that you LOOOVVVED each other and you were oh, so very happy. It’s been more than 11 years but a love like that only comes along once in a lifetime, it’s just so beautiful. Be strong and embrace it, it’s who you are Emma.
I think I need to vomit.
I said it wrong – I totally agree with you, Emma needs to deal with all her emotional crap with Neal. At some point she WILL have to talk to him, soon – I would prefer soon!
I just can’t stand the argument that Emma needs to see if she and Neal can make things work because of Henry and because of how much they LOOOVVVED each other when they were committing crimes together. She doesn’t need to revisit an actual relationship with him. She does not love him. I’m holding out hope that Daddy Charming has it figured out and is just being stealth in his approach.
Have you seen the SF speculation about the promo? That there is a new curse and Emma becomes some weird version of herself so she and Hook end up together but since it isn’t really her it doesn’t really “count” – or something along those lines???
It doesn’t make you childish! I agree that I think CS is endgame. I have also spent hours pouring over old episodes finding all the CS clues from early episodes. But I also thought I would live and die with Rumbelle and now I like CS so much better than them!! And I honestly never really got all that into Emma’s character until Hook showed up. So while CS is most definately my thing now – I don’t know where the show will go or what will happen to the characters so I have no idea how I might feel about things in the future.
But you know I am not a fan of SF regardless of whether Hook is around or not. I just don’t care for Emma and Neal together and when I watch the show I don’t feel like they have been writing it for us to WANT them to be together. But sometimes I wonder if that is just the mom in me being unable to see a viable future for SF considering their past. I know the SF folks look at their past relationship and see young love, I see disastrous out of control teenage delinquency with enabling behavior and a lost girl who was desparately clinging to the only person who she felt connected to. I never saw love at all. Emma is an adult now, she has no reason to need to revisit that relationship – not even because she and Neal are Henry’s parents. Yes, she may have felt like she still loved Neal when he abandoned her – and based upon what she had known of relationships up to that point the connection she had with Neal was probably the closest thing to love she had known. And now I’m sure she has A love for Neal since they are Henry’s parents, but again, that is not a reason to revisit dysfunctional relationships from your past.
@Jennifer Yes, I am truly perplexed by the CS hatred and nastiness that can be found too. And just in general attacking writers, actors, producers, etc.,regardless of someone’s ship, makes absolutely no sense at all to me. I get being totally into your ship, I am obsessed with CS afterall, but I do not understand personal attacks of others because they sail a different ship.
I don’t always understand or agree with the perspectives of other ships, and when I get frustrated about something I see or hear I only post it here and still try to be careful about what I write. I do sometimes post on other ships threads when I want to try to understand a different ship’s perspective for some reason. What I don’t get is when some shippers automatically jump to the conclusion that you must HATE the character involved in their ship if you are from another ship and then are therefore mean to you even if you ask a question in a friendly manner. For example, I don’t hate Neal. In fact, it bothers me quite a bit that I haven’t been able to bond with Neal since I love Bae so much. But I have had people tell me well since I come into it with such a negative attitude to begin with there is no way I will ever be able to bond with Neal. And I am like ummm . . . WHAT negative attitude?? I just said I am upset that I haven’t been able to bond with Neal. The response is typically that if I am CS I am already biased against Neal. Well, no. My brain does actually have the capacity for broader concepts than just black or white. I don’t have to hate Neal just because I want Emma with Hook. And I’m not so narrow minded to think I will always necessarily be CS. I was always pretty certain Bae was Henry’s dad so I always kind of hoped Emma would end up with him (even though it was kind of weird at the time because we had only seen him as a kid), but then when I saw her with Hook I was totally CS, even after Neal showed up. But that doesn’t mean that something could happen later on to change how I feel about things.
What puzzles me are the number of people who love Rumple but hate Hook. Because I love Rumple too and as a Rumple lover I am well aware of the horrible things he has done through his life. I have cringed and yelled at him through the TV screen at times but still love him. In my opinion, the things that Rumple has done are about a gazillion times worse than the things that Hook has done yet Rumple lovers talk about Hook as if he is Satan himself. And they will talk about what a beautiful love story Rumple and Belle have yet will threaten to stop watching the show if CS becomes endgame because of the horrible message it will be sending to women if Emma ends up with Hook. Ummm, but Rumple/Gold is the role model we want for our daughters on the kind of men they should be seeking out????
I can’t imagine sending a nasty gram to one of the writers or the producers because the show isn’t going the way I want it to. That’s just childish and the result of being able to hide behind technology in our world today. There are times I think all shows go through ebbs and flows. If I find myself no longer enjoying a show I don’t start sending nasty grams, I stop watching the show – that speaks louder than childish tweets ever will.
I do think that some people have had things happen in their past that make them particularly sensitive to some characters or to same pairings. And for me, being a bit older, married with kids I come at things with a different perspective sometimes. But to me there is never an excuse to be mean or rude to people. After all, it is just a TV show.
Can someone please help me understand why Hook is a scum for stepping back and allowing Henry’s parents to make a go of it for Henry??? Considering we have seen the back story where Hook dealt with this same issue with young Baelfire and clearly had immense guilt over it???
And how telling Neal that he isn’t sure that Emma will take him back since he already abandoned her once is setting Neal up to be run over by a bus???
So let me make sure I understand this. If Hook fights for Emma and she chooses him, Hook is a scum because he has broken up a family (a non-existent family because the parents were never married and the “father” abandoned the mother before he even knew she was pregnant and the mother then gave the child up for adoption so neither biological parent actually has any legal rights to the child any way).
But if Hook steps back and Emma decides she doesn’t want Neal anyway and still chooses Hook, Hook is a scum because by stepping back he was somehow playing a game that was setting Neal up for failure because Emma wouldn’t choose him??? How exactly does he do this??
So basically if Emma doesn’t choose Neal and chooses Hook, it is only because of an inability to use to her own brain and make her own decisions – something she has never had any problem doing before on the history of the show. Because if Emma chooses Hook it couldn’t possibly be because she loves him???
But if Emma chooses Neal it is because she loves him and all is right with the world, there will be peace in the Middle East, and no child will ever go hungry again. Oh, and then Hook will have shown tremendous character growth for allowing a loving family to be together the way they should have been all along (we’ll just forget all about the above).
I am super confused. I love my ship but if Emma chooses Neal – she chooses Neal. Short of Neal tying Hook up and leaving him for dead in the JR floating at sea or threatening to murder Henry if he doesn’t leave SB to get Hook out of the picture so he isn’t an option for her to choose anymore, I don’t see how someone could MAKE Emma choose one of them if she really loved the other.
I think what they mean is why didn’t we see an immediate shot of Killian’s face when Neal asked Emma out like we see typically see immediate shots of Killian’s reaction. I still think it is because asking Emma out on a date was nothing – Killian knew that was coming so there was nothing to see, she didn’t even give him an answer. SF are trying to say that Neal asking Emma out is this huge deal because there wasn’t an immediate shot of Killian’s face.
I think the Killian/Tink scene was more his reaction to his own realization of what HE had done by making the decision to step back. He did it to himself – Neal had nothing to do with it. But this just goes to prove our point, we got the long scene of a depressed Killian instead of brief shot of Neal drinking coffee. Who are they trying to emphasize is the one who is depressed? And then we have an interaction between Emma and Hook based upon how Emma interpreted what she saw, yet we get NOTHING about the fact that Emma didn’t show up to Neal’s date??? That speaks volumes!
So I would like to make a few friendly arguments against some of the things that I have been reading on SF sites.
We says very often that we believe CS is endgame because Neal doesn’t seem to serve much of a purpose in advancing individual episode story lines and that he is the person who seems to be in the way of CS, not the other way around. And when there is a “moment” between Emma and Neal we are always shown Killian’s reaction to it but we are never shown Neal’s reaction to CS moments because Neal’s reaction isn’t important since he is just a plot device and not a real relationship threat.
So after the last episode I have seen two things in particular being said by SF folks in response to the above. First, they are saying that if CS if supposed to be endgame and it is so important to see Killian’s reaction to SF moments, why didn’t we see Killian’s reaction to Neal asking Emma out on a date? Their argument is that, using our logic, since we weren’t shown Killian’s reaction this must have been a HUGE deal and was meant to show that SF is really moving moving forward. I totally disagree. Killian had JUST told Neal that he was backing off because he wanted to give Henry a chance to have his parents make a go of it without a pirate involved. Neal responds “Really? Thanks, man.” After that exchange why on earth would we need to see Killian’s reaction to Neal asking Emma out? He KNEW he was going to ask her out – there was absolutely no reaction for us to see. When we are given reactions it is so we can see deep emotional angst or concern. Killian was the one who made the decision to step back so he knew that Neal would immediately ask her out. He also warned Neal that he isn’t entirely sure that Emma will take him back so Killian wasn’t necessarily going to have much of a reaction at all to Neal asking Emma out. Now if Emma had squealed with delight, jumped up and down with happiness, shouted yes, and kissed Neal there is no doubt in my mind – we would have been given a reaction by Killian.
Next, SF fans are arguing that if SF isn’t really going to happen we wouldn’t have been given the scene of Neal alone in the diner when Emma didn’t show up. I agree that we were given that scene for a specific reason but I don’t think it is for the reasons that the SF fans want. Go back and watch it. SF fans are talking about how sad and depressed he looks. Really? I see a guy sitting alone drinking a cup a coffee who does look like he’s thinking about something but he doesn’t look sad or depressed to me. Keep in mind Neal’s history. He tends to say something and then immediately does the opposite. Tallahassee – we’re going home, nope I’m abandoning you. August – If something changes with the curse let me know, oh wait I’m getting engaged. NL – I’ll never stop fighting for you, well if the only thing that comes from us is Henry than that’s great. Back in SB – I really want to date her but if she doesn’t show up I’ll leave her alone.
So we get this scene where we see Neal just sitting in a diner calmly drinking a cup of coffee. Then we see Emma clearly freaking out and upset about Henry and about not being able to relax (hmmm . . . see a problem there??) because she always feels like something bad is going to happen and she is going to have to stop it but she doesn’t know how. So Daddy Charming swoops in to remind her that she needs to learn to enjoy the good moments in spite of the bad. Now when was the last time Emma said she felt good??? When she kissed Killian? When was the last time she looked relaxed?? When she and Killian were talking in NL and Killian told her he believed that she would find Henry because he had yet to see her fail at anything. And when was the last time she looked really moved by what someone said?? When Killian told her his secret in Echo Cave. ALL of those things were good moments that happened in the midst of bad – just like what Charming was talking to Emma about and what the flashback of Snowing was meant to show us.
So Emma asks Daddy Charming “And you think having lunch with Neal would be a good moment?” The issue is – she already KNOWS she has had good moments with Killian!! She doesn’t HAVE to wonder about that. She tried to talk to her mother about that. I am actually beginning to think that Daddy Charming has already figured out that Emma is in love with Killian. Twice in this episode he made comments about how Emma and Snow are exactly like each other, and he knows that you can’t tell Snow to do anything – she has to figure it out on her own. Which means that he wouldn’t be able to tell Snow to stop forcing Neal on Emma and which also means that he knows Emma is going to have to figure out that she loves Killian all on her own. And although we tend to read the advice he gives her as trying to steer her towards Neal – if you listen to what he says, it actually makes a whole lot of sense if he is thinking that he knows she should pick Killian. Especially in the way he answered her when she asked if he was trying to keep her away from Hook. When she asked if he thought having lunch with Neal would be a moment he only said there is only one way to find out and that he would drive her to Granny’s. And ALL of us agree that Emma HAS to deal with Neal before she can really move on with Hook. I think Daddy Charming might have figured this out too but is just being a good Dad and trying to be supportive and give her advice without putting the kind if pressure on her that Snow does. He knows it’s her decision and he wants her to be happy. I think he has a lot of respect for Killian and knows that he loves his daughter very much.
But, as usual, I got off topic.
Anyway, we go from calm Neal to freaking out Emma and then we get super depressed Hook. The funny part is that SF folks are criticizing his character and not even getting that they are doing EXACTLY what the show WANTS people to be doing. They are saying that he serves no purpose now and that they could remove him from the show and it wouldn’t matter. Bravo writers!!!! Mission accomplished!!!! He is Captain freaking Hook. He came back to SB because he loves Emma but because as Captain Hook he knows his way around a ship, he knows his way in and out of sticky situations, he’s the guy you want around if you are heading somewhere dangerous and need someone who can be threatening, he was the expert on NL, etc, etc. He is Mr. Super overly confident and cocky. Now he is back in SB, Emma isn’t really speaking to him, she is trying to get Henry reassimilated, he realizes the best thing for Henry is to step back so Emma can choose Neal if she wants him and he realizes that he suddenly has no purpose. In NL he suddenly remembered who he was – a man of honor because Emma made him remember that he could be a part of something honorable and he wanted to be her hero. Now that they are back in SB he feels none of that – he has done the honorable thing but without Emma he is lost. So he feels as if he serves no purpose as well.
So we have calm Neal, freaking out Emma, and depressed Killian.
I honestly believe that at the end of the day the ONLY reason Neal and Emma even consider being together again is because of Henry. I think they are both so paranoid about the orphan thing that they don’t even take a good hard look at Henry’s life. That kid is as far from an orphan as any kid could ever be. He is related in one way or another to almost everyone in town and even those he isn’t related to love him like a family member. They are just never going to be right together.
Then you have Emma and Killian. And as far as far as I can tell they are all kinds of right together but as soon as they are apart they fall to pieces. They remind me more and more of Snowing every day just with more intense personalities.
Now, I will say that I do like Neal a bit more since he has reconciled with Rumple. The brooding teenager act was getting old. And it is nice to see him smile. And I liked that he said he wanted to talk to Emma because they do need to talk. And I DO want to see him end up with someone but so far I just don’t see him click with anyone. And like everyone else, I am really hoping for some CF back story and non-Emma discussions as well. I did like the brief banter they had about Granny’s not serving rum and Hook hanging out with the dwarves.
