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@Stelio I love your theory! Especially since it parallels the episode where Snow had taken the forgetting potion but then ended up kissing Charming even though she didn’t remember who he was yet.
Honestly, I have been completely baffled by all of the spoiler pictures but your theory makes sense of all of them and I just love the idea of it!
[adrotate group="5"]Welcome to the CS Ship Jennifer. Posts often become marathons here!! We like to analyze and most people I know think I’m nuts for taking this show (but especially my ship) so seriously. Feel free to be as long winded as you want to be – wind is good for our sails!!
So I realized something (actually after reading a post on the SF thread). When Emma needed a way for Henry to prove he was really Henry she asked him to tell her about the time they “first connected” – not the time they first met but when they first connected. Because she said that life wasn’t just about events that happen but emotional connections that other people can’t necessarily be aware of.
Henry says that he remembers that the first time they connected was when they were at his castle and she told him why she “gave him up.” She asked him why and he said “So I could have my best chance.”
Interesting and cannot be coincidental that Hook in a manner of speaking “gave Emma up” by deciding to step back to do exactly the same thing – to give Henry his best chance. It’s interesting to me that they brought that up now as a reminder that having that discussion was how Emma and Henry first connected. Because Killian and Henry are going to need to get to know each other and Emma needs to know that any man she dates has Henry’s best interests at heart, and Henry needs to be able to trust anyone his mom dates. This will be especially important to Killian given his history in this area with Bae. So being able to connect with Henry is very important. And we were given a reminder that both Emma and now Killian have given up people they love to make sure Henry has his best chance.
I know I’m nuts but I just went back and watched the cringe-worthy Hook/Tink scene like 5 times in a row because something was odd to me. I feel COMPLETELY differently about it now. I don’t know if it was that I was so concerned that we were going to end up finding out that Hook and Tink had a history or as soon as I saw the two of them I automatically assumed he would be coming onto her in Captain Innuendo mode or what.
I urge you, if you can – go back and watch that scene a few times.
It is HEART-BREAKING (no matter what anyone on another ship tries to tell you). This scene is Killian Jones trying to be Captain Hook BUT IT IS NOT WORKING, because he is in PAIN. Go back and watch any other episode where Hook is flirty or being Captain Innuendo – look at the confident, cocky expression he has on his face. In this scene he has NONE of that. He looks completely miserable. The confidence he had with women – GONE. For the first time he is NOT in charge of a conversation with a woman where he has a chance to make sexual innuendos, and look at his face – HE DOESN’T CARE. He is saying the words but his expression is saying that he doesn’t want to be there doing that or saying that, and he knows that Tink has called him out on it. He says “Who’s Emma?” but if you look at his expression he might as well say “You’re right, I’m whipped.”
He has his bottle of rum but watch the way he looks at it. Once Pan called him out about his drinking on NL I had the impression that he at least cut back on the rum. Watch the way he looks at the flask. He looks at it like “this is what I am supposed to have in my hand but I don’t want this here.” He has it there only because it is Killian Jones trying to be Captain Hook and Captain Hook turns to rum to drown his feelings. But the problem is that Emma has started him on his road to redemption – he isn’t entirely Captain Hook anymore so even if he tries to drown himself in his bad habits to escape his pain – IT DOESN’T work!!!!
I’m not actually even sure he was drunk now or if he was just really depressed and trying so hard to be what he was before Emma came along thinking that will make him feel better but then realizes that he can’t. That has GOT to be hard. He’s been Captain Hook for 300 years, he flirts and is completely inappropriate with his sexual remarks and come-ons, he drinks like a fish. Then he falls in love with Emma. He makes the right decision to back off so that she can choose without pressure and have it be the right decision for Henry too. He thinks that he will do the same thing that he did to numb the pain for 300 years – but it doesn’t work, and he wasn’t expecting that. Welcome to True Love Killian Jones. It changes you.
This completely reminds me of how Snow tried to do the right thing by telling Charming she didn’t love him and then needed the forgetting potion because it was too painful to even know that he was out there.
The best part is that the exact same thing is happening to Emma!! On NL she told both Neal and Killian that she is choosing Henry, she has a conversation with her dad saying that she is thinking about Henry and something bad happening and isn’t ready to date. She tells both her parents that she cant’t have any good moments because she is the savior and doesn’t get a day off. This is all typical Emma walls and excuses. She thinks she can continue keep her walls intact and focus on the job at hand, that is her intention. She hears a scream and in usual savior form is concerned about what she needs to do UNTIL . . . and this is major, just like Killian, she has no control over trying to be who she USED to be. She decided to be Savior Swan with her walls intact but the minute she saw Killian and Tink together, her walls were pulled apart and she felt JEALOUS. Not only did she feel jealous but she actually verbally started to ask if they had “hooked” up. It is not at all like Emma to verbalize emotions but I think this completely took her by surprise. She knows when Hook is lying to her and he knows that he can’t lie to her. So the exchange they have when she asks them if something was going on is interesting. You basically have two people who have no idea how to handle the feelings they have for each other even though they are both desparately trying to do what is right.
After I re watched these scenes I feel more than ever that CS is a True Love couple. Just like with Snowing and Rumbelle – neither one of them knows how to handle life without the other. Think about it. On NL Emma was a confident leader but she still always looked to Hook first for advice and his opinion. And Hook was confident and in hero mode because he was helping Emma to reach her goal, even if they weren’t officially a couple. They get back to SB and as far as I can tell, they haven’t spoken since they returned. Hook is obviously miserable without her and doesn’t seem to have any purpose at all in SB anymore. The only reason he returned to SB was to come back to help Emma. And Emma is confused about Henry – everyone is just brushing her concerns aside, she is depressed about the fact that she is overwhelmed with being the savior and always feeling like something bad will happen. On NL, all Emma needed was to hear Killian tell her that he believed in her and suddenly her spirits were raised. Without having each other to turn to they both seem . . . lost. So lost that they almost seem stupid around each other. Come on – does Emma really think that Tink and Hook have something going on?? She knows better than that, she heard his secret and she knows how much he loves her, and she’s the one that controls all the cards there. All she has to do is tell him she loves him and has chosen him and she has the most devoted man on the face of the planet. And does Hook really think he is getting away with making Emma think something happened with Tink? No, he came across as a ridiculous junior high school kid saying that “perhaps” something happened.
We keep being given Snowing parallels for a reason. Snowing met and had a somewhat violent start to their relationship although there was an instant attraction – just like CS. And Snowing go on adventures that bring them closer together – just like CS. And last night we are told twice by Daddy charming that Snow and Emma are just like each other. Neither think they can enjoy life until all the “trouble” is over and they both have to realize that you have to enjoy the happy moments you are given in life. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Emma and Killian were happy together on NL, that Emma said the one time she felt good was when she kissed him, that he told her the fun would start when they returned to SB, that he was able to lift her spirits, etc. but now that they are apart they are both miserable.
I think they used this week to set us up for what is going to happen next week. I do think Emma is finally going to willingly let her walls down next week.
I don’t think she’s dead. I still think she is sneaky and has a major role to play in everything – last night’s episode convinced me even more of that and made me think back to older episodes that she has been in involved in as well.
First off, the scene with Tink in the diner was highly suspicious to me. Upon watching the episode again I confirmed to myself that Blue seemed genuinely bothered by the fact that Tink had Pixie Dust and then seemed relieved to hear that she couldn’t consistently get it to work. And when she said she can’t believe in Tink if Tink can’t even believe in herself I had the feeling she was trying to mess with Tink’s self-confidence because she doesn’t WANT her to be able to get the Pixie Dust to work. I think Blue was clearly fearful for some reason of what would happen if Tink could get the Pixie Dust to work. The fact that she is suddenly attacked and killed by the shadow the next time we see her after that scene seems way too suspicious to me. I think Blue and Pan are working together.
This made me think back to the beginning of the show. So Blue brings in an Enchanted Tree that Geppetto is going to have to carve into a wardrobe that will only allow two people to escape the curse. Wouldn’t you know that Geppetto is a parent who has desparately wanted a child and who would of course want HIS child to escape the curse. And how convenient that the child that the Blue Fairy then sends through with Emma to watch over and protect her is none other than Pinocchio, whom the Blue Fairy would know has about a 1% chance of actually following the rules and doing what he is supposed to do. Given what we know about how the Blue Fairy is with following rules does it make ANY sense that she would lie and allow Pinocchio to go through the wardrobe OR that she would even consider allowing someone like Pinocchio who is known for lying to be in charge of the person responsible for breaking the curse??
Then we have grown up August. He had figured out that Tamara was evil and was trying to warn everyone about her but, no, when the Blue Fairy changes him back to his non-wooden self he is changed back into the child version of Pinochhio who has no memory of Tamara.
Looking back on some of these past things it just seems like Blue has been involved in some things that have actually worked against the good guys. Now that Pan is deciding to enact a curse it seems a bit too convenient to me that suddenly Blue is “dead.” It would be suspicious if she disappeared because she can’t leave town so if she needs to be saved from the curse, “killing” her off to protect her from the curse seems like a good option. Remove her shadow would be, essentially, removing her soul from her body so she wouldn’t be affected by a curse. Once the curse has taken affect her shadow can return to her body.
But she also has a perfect cover if the curse doesn’t work out. If Pan dies or the curse just doesn’t work, she can get her shadow back and say that when Pan’s magic died her shadow returned since his shadow was the one that ripped hers away. Everyone would just be thrilled that she was alive and would never suspect her of being associated or behind the dark magic.
@MysteryKat I was going to point out exactly the same thing about Killian’s motivation for stepping back!!
Anyway – here are my thoughts about the episode.
Hook ended up doing EXACTLY what I thought he was going to do – decide to take a step back to give Emma and Neal a chance to be a family. However, his motivations for doing so ended up being different even though they make complete sense.
So Killian has just returned to SB after bringing a young boy home from NL on the JR. The last time he had a boy on the JR it was Bae and he ended up turning him over to Pan which resulted in him ending UP on NL (although he had little choice since Bae demanded to let him off the ship). Killian has felt guilty about that ever since. So he has obviously felt parallels there between Henry and Bae. Next, with his first love Milah she choose she run away with him leaving both her husband and Bae behind. She always regretted leaving Bae and wanted to go back to get him so that she, Killian, and Bae could be a family. However when Killian tried to explain all of this to Bae, he didn’t believe him and it ruined the father/son relation that had developed between Killian and Bae. Bae blamed Killian for destroying his family and making him an orphan – and we all know how Killian feels about orphans.
Now remember, the only time that Hook ever saw Milah with Bae was when they were drinking in the tavern together and Rumple came to get Milah. Milah rudely gave Rumple the brush off and then Bae wandered in to her. So now we have Killian watching Emma and Henry together in the Diner with an odd expression on his face. Here’s what I think is so important about him stepping back now and how people are totally misreading it. Killian stepping back is not at all going against him just telling her that he will win her heart and it is not going against his motto of a man fighting for what he wants. In fact, what he is doing IS fighting for what he wants and, as he told Neal, it completely proves that he is in it for the long haul. He is stepping back for Henry. Emma made it very clear on NL that she is choosing Henry, and Killian is making sure that she can choose Henry AND him – unlike Milah did when SHE choose him 300 years ago. But this is the part where I think we might get a bonus out of this. Throwing Neal under the bus?? No way. This is how we are going to get our REAL CaptainFire reunion moment. Bae has NEVER forgiven Hook for his mother. It was too painful for a child to accept that both of his parents could have chosen to abandon him. It was easier for him to believe that Pirate Hook stole his mother away against her will or somehow tricked her to go away with him because no mother would ever willingly leave her husband/the father of child and her son to be with Captain Hook. As an adult Neal has the capacity to understand this even though it might be painful. But if Killian steps back and says he wants to let them make a go for it for Henry but then EMMA makes the decision and chooses Hook over him – Neal will be faced with the reality of what happened because history will be repeating itself. And now that Rumple has changed it is likely that he would admit that he killed Milah. Although it would be painful, it would allow Neal to realize that Hook really was sincere in wanting to be a father to Bae all those years ago, just like he truly cares about what is best for Henry now.
And I do think he really is thinking of Henry which leads me to our cringe-worth moment with Tink. So Killian warns Neal not to get his hopes up because just because he is stepping back doesn’t mean Emma will choose him. However, Killian IS obviously aware that by stepping back there IS the possibility that she WILL choose him. And although he is making the right decision for both Henry and Emma (once again he is doing nothing more than giving Emma the choices here) the reality of what could happen is almost more than he can take. So what does he do? Like all of the villains on the show when they take one step forward they take two steps back (only briefly here though) and he turns back to his rum to drown his (imagined) sorrows and turns back into Captain Innuendo. Luckily he runs into Tink who clearly realizes he is in love with Emma and is only looking for some way to make the hurt go away. Remember, for 300 years the only way Hook has known to deal with the pain of losing someone he loves is to plan his revenge. He has just realized he has found his true love and may love her . . . now what does he do?? He is literally lost, and based upon the fact that the last time he lost someone he loved he wanting to kill someone I’m not so sure I think getting drunk and coming onto someone is all that disastrous for a villain on this show. Let’s consider the things Rumple, Regina, and Cora have done when they have been unhappy.
Was I happy with this moment? No, I cringed. I shouted at the screen “No, what are you doing??” But I love Rumple and that isn’t anything I haven’t done with him many times before. And then I reminded myself that he IS Captain Hook. My ship is Emma Swan and Captain Hook. So if I am expecting smooth sailing I am kidding myself. That is part of what is so appealing to me about my ship. It would be boring to have Emma end up with someone normal. For me I want Emma to end up with someone who isn’t what you would expect for her – someone “layered” as Belle would say.
But at the same time, I was reminded of when Snow took the forgetting potion because it was too painful to even think about a life without Charming. And having Tink call Hook out about Emma reminded me of how Grumpy used to do the same with Snow.
The good news is that the cringe-worthy moment was short lived. Saved by a scream. I actually wondered if Hook knew that Neal and Emma were supposed to be on a date at that time and that was specifically why he got drunk at that particular time – maybe he assumed she would at least show up for the date? And that made me wonder if he thought it was Emma who was screaming – which was why he took off so fast when he heard it, like he sobered up really fast thinking he needed to rescue her.
Then the jealous Emma scene. I am just gonna say I honestly do NOT think there is love triangle. I think Emma knows EXACTLY who she loves. The problem is the one person she is the closest to is Hook and she isn’t quite ready to completely let her walls down with him yet, and she doesn’t feel emotionally safe enough with anyone yet to just directly say “I don’t want to be with Neal because I am in love with Hook.” And no one (besides Hook) knows her well enough yet to pick up on the clues she keeps throwing out there about not wanting Neal but wanting Hook. I think they are trying to move in that direction with Daddy Charming though. With all of the Snowing parallels we have been getting lately and especially the random comment Charming made about the first time they met Snow hit him with a rock, I am wondering if we might soon have a conversation where Emma tells Daddy Charming everything that happened with Neal. When Charming made the comment about not allowing Snow to go after Medusa alone it made me think that he would be furious if he knew that Neal left her alone to deal with the curse. So I wonder if he will realize that he would have never left Snow alone in that situation and will recognize that Neal isn’t the person they thought he was and then will see that Hook has been the one who treats Emma more like he treats Snow.
So the jealousy scene – the scene that really makes no sense AT ALL and has no reason for being there??? So as far as I can tell, Emma hasn’t spoken to Killian since they have returned, she isn’t clear one way or another on whether she is going on a date with Neal, she isn’t clear on whether she is deciding between Killian and Neal, then she sees Killian and Tink come running out of the Inn (where I guess they are both staying?) obviously in response to the same scream she heard and her FIRST thought is – “Were you two sleeping together?” Huh?? First, she has seen Hook and Tink together many times on NL alone, second – that’s what she thinks BEFORE she worries about the scream?? So obviously jealous Emma was made to be a big deal!!! And I’m sorry but as childish as it was, I found Hook’s response . . . precious. Bless his heart, he tries so hard but he just a lovesick puppy when it comes to Emma no matter how cool he tries to play it. So he may have been drink but I think the scream sobered him up at least a bit and he knows it is impossible to get away with lying to Emma. So I can just hear the follow up conversation “Were you trying to make me jealous with Tink?” “Well you were going on a date with Neal!”
The upcoming curse and promo. Someone had mentioned before that the thing that could make Emma finally admit her feelings would be if something happened and she thought she was going to lose Killian. Well Pan said that if he enacted the curse, everyone would forget who they were and Rumple said everyone would go back to where they came from. That would mean that Hook would go back to the EF but I’m not quite clear on whether he would forget who he is. Does that mean that they would forget their EF characters again? Since Hook was protected by Cora’s spell he was affected by the original curse. Or would this be an entirely new curse and everyone would forget who they are regardless of SB or EF characters, including Emma forgetting she is the Savior? Regardless, based upon the promo (swoon!!!) I am wondering if Killian and Emma think some combination that they will be separated and/or forget who they are when the curse is coming. That would cause them both to be emotional and I could see Emma finally telling Killian how she feels if she thinks that they aren’t going to remember each other. I would love to see the two of them hugging the way Snowing did when Rumple’s magic smoke came through SB, if the curse comes through like that.
I will post all my thoughts later but just wanted to sat now that it is interesting to me that people seem surprised that Hook has moments like he did with Tink (regardless of how you want to interpret them) when everyone LOVES Regina and Rumple.
Mind you, I’m not criticizing anyone for their opinion. I just find it interesting. Our ship does, in fact, include a villain who should be expected to act like a villain at times – even while on a road to redemption. And just like Rumple and Regina, he may have perfectly good reasons that he can justify for his behavior but that doesn’t make those moments any less cringe-worthy. And that’s OKAY!!
I love Rumple to death but can’t tell you how many times I have cringed at things he has done – still love him.
Regina – Their is a reason she is called the EVIL queen but she has also made me CRY and I love her redemption story.
This show makes you HOPE for the villains – Hook is no different. So we should expect cringe-worthy moments just like with all the other villains. We can analyze them and understand them but I don’t understand people (not here on our ship) who crucify Hook yet LOVE Rumple and Regina.
Good grief the guy came onto Tink while he was drunk. Rumple had a supet disgusting, I can hardly watch through my fingers spinning wheel seduction scene while talking about detailed ways to murder people with Cora!! Yuck!!
I’m not exactly sure how those kinds of things work (my nephew actually just got a job with a financial firm working in the department that consults with companies helping them determine how much money they have lost when copyright infringement had occured – he is still in his last year of college so he hasn’t done anything there yet so he is of no help yet!). But I’m guessing that just making a reference to something like “ruby slippers” without an actual storyline or product that would draw an audience or attract customers would not be a problem. So since Neal said “ruby slippers” everyone knows what he was referring to but by mentioning them it didn’t actually attract more viewers to that episode or to the series and it didn’t result in a product being sold. It was literally just saying two words that when said together make people think of something specific. Now if the episode had been called “Ruby Slippers” I think that would be different because Warner Brothers could argue that people decided to watch the episode because they thought it would be about the Wizard of Oz based upon a clear 1939 movie reference. Does that make sense????
Not sure about the shoes. I read several articles and I can’t remember if the one on the law firm website said that the ruby slippers wasn’t an issue in the film since Dorothy wasn’t in it. So I don’t know if the term “ruby slippers” is trademarked so they could use “red slippers” instead. Or in typically OUaT fashion they could go with an entirely different color just to mix things up – or go with a different article of clothing . . . who knows???
At the end of the day they could choose not to have her be green at all. I mean Captain Hook doesn’t look like the Captain Hook we all think of, Little Red Riding Hood doesn’t either. There are so many twists in the show that we might never know what was done to get around copyrights or what was done because A and E had a radical idea.
Or I’m totally wrong and she is Cruella and none of this matters anyway!
So I just read an interesting tidbit on a law firm’s website that explained how Disney got around the legal issues of the green skinned witch in Oz the Great and Powerful. It seems that Warner Brothers owns anything that isn’t in the Oz books but as long as Disney changes things so that they don’t exactly match the 1939 Wizard of Oz movie, all is good. To get around the green skin issue they used a different color green and actually named the color and used the name of the witch in the movie as part of the name of the color. So I’m guessing if the Wicked Witch is going to be green on OUaT they will use the exact same make-up.
So it sounds like they would be fine having her be a Mrs. Gulch-like person in SB, they just can’t call her that. She can wear similar clothes but not the exact same clothes (which is what we have seen in the pictures).
So based on what I read I don’t see a problem with them doing the Wicked Witch of the West. Disney has already been down this road (no pun intended) so know exactly what to do to get around all the legal issues.
I am terrible at linking stuff but the info was on the Keller Law Firm website and I think I googled Wicked Witch of the West lawsuit or something like that.
