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I’m thoroughly confused now. I think what was meant was that they were tired of having the “pirate thing” thrown in his face repeatedly because he’s so much more than that! Charming has (I think) gotten past it and I really don’t think Emma meant it in a bad way, just saying that there is that pirate reputation but she almost had a small smile on her face and then it fell apart because once again, someone was saying he was a pirate and it hurt him. I look forward to the day when it’s more a term of endearment! It was definitely not a get rid of Hook comment! Not by a long shot. I love the captain and hope he always retains some of that side too (and I think he will for sure). Just remember: when Emma was spelling out everybody’s strengths at the beginning of the season she included hero and villain…and pirate (which not only singled him out but also listed him as important and vital to the mission!) The thing that was quoted was merely showing how painful it must be for Hook to be told he’s not good enough for Emma because he’s a pirate, especially when it comes from Charming who was once put down for being a shepherd and he still got Snow who was a princess. Hook definitely has a huge following and well-deserved at that. Colin is incredible and never ceases to amaze me at the depths of emotion he conveys! Sorry if I completely misunderstood the reaction to that quote but I was very confused! We love Hook! (And Killian <3)
I might have misunderstood the post I responded to, but you are quite right!
Sorry if I didn’t make it clear – I meant what MysteryKat summed up. I LOVE Killian!!!
I don’t get the constant harping about “the pirate thing” from the characters. Charming doesn’t seem to be in a position to complain about someone’s background since he doesn’t come from the most prestigious of heritages but it didn’t affect how Snow felt about him AT ALL. In fact, it was never even an issue, the only thing that was ever even discussed was that he was NOT really the prince and YAY you can meet my real Mom now. But there was never any “I’m not good enough for a Princess” discussion from him or from Snow.
And I love Emma too but I truly don’t get her making a big deal about him being a pirate. Let’s face it – she likes bad boys. Isn’t a pirate just an old world version of a modern day thief??? And what were she and Neal??? She dated a thief, she WAS a thief, her son’s father was a thief. The people who don’t want Emma with Killian say it’s bad to show her choosing a bad boy/pirate and what kind of message does that send to girls who watch the show? As opposed to choosing the thief who got her pregnant out of wedlock?? I see no difference between Hook the Pirate and Neal the Thief. Just because she hasn’t seen Neal in 11 years doesn’t change the fact that the man, was in fact, a thief – a wanted criminal whose crime was what he used to put her in prison. And how do we really know he has improved himself over the last 11 years – his taste in women hasn’t done anything to make me think he has become a better man considering his fiancé tried to destroy an entire town and everyone in it, kidnapped his son, then tried to kill him when he attempted to stop her – not a super judge of character. But for some reason, we are supposed to have forgiven Neal for being a thief simply because he is Henry’s father??? Why do I doubt that if Killian gets Emma pregnant everyone will suddenly forget about “the pirate thing” even though Killian has shown over and over that he cares about Emma and wants what is best for her and makes decisions based upon what is best for HER. Why isn’t Emma bringing up “the thief thing” with Neal? Because she was one.
I think the writers have done a great job of showing how Emma and Killian understand each other because of the loss they have experienced in their lives but I don’t think they have done a good job of showing that they BOTH turned to a life of crime BECAUSE of the loss in their lives. In Tallahassee they started out showing that Emma was a thief and then in Good Form they showed how Killian became one (in the form of a pirate) but so far they haven’t had Emma acknowledge that she and Hook are no different in that regard either. It’s why it drives me crazy every time someone brings up “the pirate thing.” Either acknowledge that all 3 members of the triangle are just as bad when it comes to a history of thievery or move on. Sure they can show that each character is at a different point of moving away from that kind of life but you can’t pretend that it never existed for all three of them.
Regina made a big deal about the fact that Emma had spent time in jail so Snow and Charming HAVE to know at least some details of their daughters life of crime – they may not know that Neal put her there but they aren’t brain dead they know she was pregnancy while she was in jail so they have to be have been able to start putting the pieces of the puzzle together. The only thing I am holding out hope for is that Snow, bless her unicorn and rainbow heart, is so loyal to the concept of first love as true love that she is purposely overlooking Neal’s faults and Emma’s past thinking that it doesn’t matter because true love will overcome all. But that, maybe the look she had when she heard Killian’s secret, was her starting to realize that maybe it is Killian’s past that she needs to purposely overlook because he obviously loves her and maybe she is starting to put things together and is recognizing that Emma loves him too.
I just cringe when I hear “the pirate thing” and it literally broke my heart when Emma brought it up in the last episode. Killian is done with the cockiness with Emma – he is a confidant man and isn’t afraid to be honest with her in telling her what he thinks but the poor man still has feelings. That’s why I had NO problem with him telling Emma that she will eventually have to choose. I think Killian figured out almost immediatelely that Emma figures things out in her head but often has to have other people call her out on things to get her to act on the hard stuff. I think that was what Killian was doing. Obviously Emma knows she has to choose but Killian knows her well and knows that if he doesn’t call her out on it she will keep pushing it down and making excuses for why she can’t make a decision yet. He wasn’t expecting her to make a decision right then. But he was telling her that guys act stupid when they are fighting over a girl – you want it to stop? Then YOU are the one who is going to have to make it stop by choosing one of us because neither one of us intends to stop fighting for you. I like that he told her that the fun begins after she saves Henry and makes her decision. I don’t see that as pressure. I see that as exactly what Emma needs. He’s telling her not to fret and dread over making the decision because once you do, the fun part of your life can start. As long as you don’t, you will stuck in purgatory torturing yourself wondering what to do. I think something that everyone is forgetting is that Killian ALSO knows Neal. So I don’t think he is being a cocky pirate when he tells Emma that she will choose him. He knows what Emma is like now better than Neal does and unfortunately I think he may recognize the patterns of mistakes Bae has made in his life. So it’s possible that he may also be confident that Emma and Neal just won’t work out.
[adrotate group="5"]Can I just say how tired I am already of “the pirate thing.”
Yeah, I get that pirates are bad and all but I feel like the constant emphasis on it is getting old. Especially since no one seemed to ever care that it doesn’t make a bit of sense that Princess Snow White ended up marrying a shepherd. A shepherd whose Storybrook job is working at the Animal Shelter. Princess Snow White marries a guy who shovels animal animal feces for a living and we never hear a word about how that aspect of their relationship makes them an unlikely match because of the true love thing. But with CS it’s all about the “pirate thing.”
It especially bothers me when Charming tosses it around. You don’t think Killian is good enough for your daughter? He is the Captain of a ship. You were good enough for a Princess? You dealt with animal dung.
Can the writers please let everyone get over this so we can move on?
Ummm . . . * politely raises hand*
May I ask everyone a question??
Am I the only one who is puzzled by CaptainFire??
I don’t understand what is going on? One minute Hook is mourning Bae on the JR with Emma and he is being nostalgic in a cave talking about his drawing ability and the time they spent together, and the text he and Neal are fighting like 5 year olds over a “lighter.”
I am . . . confused.
The last time we saw Hook and Bae, Hook was very fatherly toward him and I had the impression from the way that he spoke to Emma about him that his memories of Bae were “fatherly” as well. But nothing in their interactions together has at all made me feel that they ever had any kind of father/son relationship.
I love Killian but I am very confused by what the writers are doing. He didn’t even seem to care that they saved Neal. I totally get that he is in “competition” with Neal for Emma but it’s like they had him all emotionally affected about Neal until he actually showed back up – now it’s like there is no relationship there at all. For someone who is so confident about telling it like it is – I don’t understand why Killian hasn’t even acknowledged his relationship with Neal. Thanking him for not freaking out about the kiss has nothinh to do with THEIR relationship.
I’m assuming we are missing some major backstory that happened between them after he turned Bae over to Pan that will explain all the time Hook says he spent with Bae?? And that will explain why he is so nostalgic of him in his absence but seems to not give a hoot when he’s actually there?
Like I said. I am confused. I was really hoping to see the Hook/Bae interactions – completely separate from anything Emma and I am totally not understanding why it seems like this is being ignored. Am I alone here?
@MysteryKat – so glad you wrote all of that so I don’t have too!
Seriously. You said it all.
The only thing I will add is that I feel exactly the same way you do about Killian’s “Does that surprise you?” potentially becoming the CS catch phrase. I would love to see Killian continue to impress Emma with making honorable decisions and surprising her by showing her the man he is so that she can get over the “pirate thing” – then I would love to have Emma discover the truth about Milah being Neal’s mother and that Hook turned Bae over to Pan due to either something Pan does or something Neal does in an attempt to make her dislike Killian. But, at that point it will be too late – just like how Belle continues to learn horrible things that Rumple did in the PAST but because she loves him and has faith in the man he really is, she doesn’t allow it to affect the way she feels about him. So I would love for Killian to find out that Emma has learned the truth about who Milah is and his history with Neal and be convinced that means that she won’t choose him. But then when Emma tells him that it doesn’t matter because that was in the past and she is choosing him because she knows that he is a man of honor and good form and he looks confused she can say to him “Does that surprise you?”
Did anyone else’s CS shipper heart melt when Emma asked Killian if he thought she would really save Henry and he told her “I’ve yet to see you fail.” I thought his whole speech was sfdgfhjgjhgjyghgj!!!, but that part literally made my heart hurt in a good way . . .
If there is a curse that works the same way as the original one did, and it is the way to keep everyone together, Regina won’t use it this time. The last time she killed the thing she love most – her father, Henry in order to enact the curse. But there is no way she will kill the thing she loves most this time – her SON, Henry. She wouldn’t even consider it.
Yup. Sounds like everyone who came with the curse is going back with this curse. Which means Emma, Henry, Hook, and Neal won’t be going back.
@Captain Eala, let me give you a cyber hug.
Awwww thanks obisgirl!!!
*returns hug*I agree with everything you said and I’m sorry about what your mom went through too. ST ‘shippers who say stuff like that, Emma choosing Hook is the easy choice, clearly, are only looking out for one-half of their ‘ship. Neal and have a twisted view of how Emma factors into the pairing as a whole.
Thanks, I just needed to use that example because this is one of the main reasons why I view Swanfire as so unhealthy, and to both parties. Because if Emma goes back to Neal it validates all of his Rumple-esque behaviour, such as, using a recent example, using a toddler to get to NL. He needs someone to bring out the best in him, something Emma has never been able to do, which oddly (lol not really) enough she does with Killian. He needs a Belle.
I agree that most SF shippers seem to be Neal stans before Emma stans, which is fine. But this “triangle” is all about Emma and her Happy Ending. Not Neal’s. And I also think that they’re ignoring the fact that Killian has been doing his level best to make Emma happy whereas Neal has done almost always the precise opposite. Now i’m not saying he tries to be selfish, but there really is no escaping that he is.
Whatever about the jail thing, it’s been hacked to death, but Neal left Emma. He left her, and it was for more than just getting her back to her family. He wanted to put distance between him and Rumple. His reaction in “Manhattan” speaks to that: “You brought him to me? Why would you do that?” – that is clear framing of the narrative right there. Neal demands that she break her deal with Rumple in order to keep his distance from his father, despite KNOWING what Rumple does to people who break deals. Sure he came back to help her in his apartment, but the fact is his first impulse was to be selfish. Neal decided not to go to SB to give Emma an explanation of why he abandoned her because he was afraid of his father. Neal doesn’t take into consideration how painful it could be for Emma to have Tamara in SB – he only thinks of his own needs “I need her”.He doesn’t think about how hard or demeaning it is on Emma when he disparages her theories about Tamara and her lie-detecting ability.
I’m sure there are many more examples but these are established FIRMLY in canon. Some of the above could also be classified as being inconsiderate/cowardly – but those are forms of selfishness IMO.
For me, the reason I ‘ship CS is because I care equally about Emma and Killian’s happiness. I care about both of them as characters. I love their stories and how perfectly, they mirror each other. I love them both.
I love both too, I really do, especially after this season. I would definitely consider myself a Killian stan too, although he’s a fingers breadth lower than my love for Emma, but he’s been climbing all the time this season so I think I will love both of them equally soon enough. I was dying for both of them in Ariel – but again, Killian a bit less than Emma. For all that Killian is good, Captain Hook did some bad things. I accept that, I accept his flaws, and the fact that some were born from love helps too. But Neal fans constantly gloss over all of his bad treatment of Emma. It really annoys me, because the way he treated Emma was not true love in the slightest. Killian supports Emma. Charming supports Snow. Neal drags Emma down. Another thing that annoys me that SF shippers ignore and like MysteryKat was talking about – Emma regards her time with Neal as shameful. Not as something she wants to remember.
Emma and Killian’s journey is not going to be an easy one. They are going to face obstacles (most likely, Neal).
Heck no, but that’s what’s going to make it fun right??
The whole CaptainFire relationship is going to make things complicated, and there’ll be resentment etc. but how I want it to end is by Neal accepting that Emma’s choice is Killian, the way he didn’t accept that Milah’s choice was Killian. Bae basically accused Killian of killing Milah himself – he’s in complete and utter denial that his father is the one who killed his mother (evidenced by the fact that Neal has never brought it up with Rumple) and so if Neal acknowledges Emma’s choice in Killian that would be a HECK of a lot of welcome character growth for him.Henry will most likely be a voicer of objections to CS too.
She’s actually making the difficult choice to move on because you never forget about your first love. A part of Emma will always love Neal but Emma also recognizes it’s unhealthy for her in the long run to continue clinging to the past.
YES
He’ll happily cause her more pain if it means she’ll give in and give him another chance.
I don’t know about the “happily” part to be honest, like I was saying above he isn’t malicious about being selfish, but it’s certainly there, and yes, he’s pretty much saying “you’re not going to get rid of me” and not listening to what she said. Not putting her needs first. Not putting her happiness above all else. Which is what a certain other person is doing
THIS!!!!
And I know I always blab about my 41 year old opinion but I have a personal opinion as well.
I was married for the first time when I was 27. I have a 12 year old son. When my son was still an infant I came home from work one day and discovered that my husband had taken off without ANY forewarning. He cleared out our bank accounts and took all of our furniture. Luckily I was very well employed and had family who could help me. It took me several days to even locate my husband. Needless to say we are now divorced. He has had hardly ANY involvement in my son’s life (entirely his choice) and never pays child support (luckily I don’t need it). When my son was 3 I married my current husband (who has raised my son as his own). Even if I wasn’t married, if my ex-husband showed back up today profusely apologetic for what he did, ready to be an active part of our lives, and promising to never hurt us again there is absolutely NO WAY on earth I would EVER take that man back – regardless of how I may have felt about him at one time in my life. And no amount of telling me I should take him back for my son would ever convince me it would be the best thing for my son. You know why? Because there is no way I could EVER trust that man ever again, even if I wanted to. And there is no way I would take the chance that he would repeat history and hurt me AND my son all over again.
It sounds really happy and noble to tell someone they should stay together for their kids. And if you are talking about two people who are married and have decided they just don’t love each other anymore I totally get that – there are ways to rekindle love and work on your marriage. But when you are talking about situations where things are unhealthy and unsafe – it is NOT better to stay together for the kids and even counselors will tell you that when kids are exposed to certain types of behaviors in marriages they will end up repeating the negative behaviors in their OWN relationships.
This is what drives me bonkers about the Emma/Neal thing. They were never married!!! Their child (who Neal never even knew existed) was given up for adoption and neither Emma nor Neal have any legal rights to Henry. So we are talking about a situation where a woman has known the child she gave up for adoption for less than a year, has no legal rights to him – not even any kind of legal visitation schedule, and has only had the guy she dated over 11 years ago back in her life for probably a matter of weeks now but people are saying the best decision she can make is to pick the guy that ditched her and threw her in jail because a guy he just met told him he should???
Reminder: Emma is a princess, a savior, and a strong and independent woman who has learned to take care of herself. She’s got it going on!! I don’t see that she needs to settle for anything!!! She needs someone who worships the ground she walks on but isn’t a stupid sap like Storybrook David. She needs someone who respects that fact that she is a princess and a savior but at the same time, couldn’t care less because she was raised in the real world and is still just “Emma Swan.” She needs someone who can challenge her because she gets stubborn, angry, and shuts down when she feels vulnerable. She needs someone who understands that she has been hurt but who won’t let her wallow in her grief when she starts to feel sorry for herself. She needs someone who can remind her that she doesn’t always have to take life so seriously even when the weight of the world has been placed on her shoulders. She needs someone who will watch out to make sure she is okay when she is more worried about everyone else. She needs someone who understands who and what is important to her, and who will love her enough to make those things important to him as well even if it isn’t always easy. She needs someone who isn’t afraid to open up first because he knows that it is hard for her to talk about her feelings. And most importantly she needs someone who wants to be her hero but is willing to sacrifice to give her the freedom to make her own choices – something no one else allows her to do. As far as I can tell, Killian is the person who does all of this for Emma.
So if it’s Pixie Dust I’m thinking it’s definately the Blue Fairy who kicked the bucket (or at least we are supposed to think she is dead).
rumplegoldfan wrote: Do you ever wonder if the cast reads these boards, knowing us by name, and just laughs and laughs?? “They don’t think it’s you, your nose looks too squishy . . .”
I joke about this but I am convinced there is an ABC inter who’s only job is to sit on this site any watch us all. *waves to Intern* Do you have a name? Can I call you Sally?
Why would you think that lol and btw wouldn’t they just pose as a fan? Sometimes the best place to hide is right out in public.
So we’re onto you, huh Sally???
Do you ever wonder if the cast reads these boards, knowing us by name, and just laughs and laughs?? “They don’t think it’s you, your nose looks too squishy . . .”
I joke about this but I am convinced there is an ABC inter who’s only job is to sit on this site any watch us all.
*waves to Intern* Do you have a name? Can I call you Sally?
Now that sounds like the job for me!!!
