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@Captain Eala
Totally agree with you about what could happen when Hook has to decide whether to tell Emma about Neal or not. You just know Pan isn’t going to leave it TOTALLY up to the characters to decide on their own but will try to come up with some way to mess things up. And I also think that’s what Daddy Charming will step in to defend Killian – especially since he has already experienced one of Pan’s attempts at trying to turn two people who are in the process of bonding against each other. As Killian pointed out to David – that is exactly what Pan WANTS to do, get them to turn against each other. So David is well aware of that now and will be able to spot it when he sees it.
Loved, loved, loved it!!!
What I loved the BEST was that they did such an excellent job of continuing to show that Killian has been doing everything FOR Emma – coming back, trying to save Henry, saving her Dad – because he loves her and he wants her to see who he REALLY is. When you love someone you want to be the best version of yourself you can be for them – they MAKE you want to be a good person. But at the same time doing those things are also reminding HIM of who he really is – and that is where I think Pan’s little plan is going to backfire.
While I think it will concern him that Neal is still alive – he KNOWS that Pan plays head games. I think, not only for Emma, but also because of his past with Baelfire, Killian will tell Emma that Neal is alive and now will not only lead the effort to rescue to Henry but when he discovers that Neal has been taken captive, will also lead the effort to rescue him as well. He turned him over to Pan once – I don’t think he would allow himself to let Pan take him again. There may be some back and forth stuff that goes on in there that makes Emma think poorly of him for some reason but daddy David has been impressed enough with Killian to give him the go ahead with Emma and he has found similarities in their backgrounds with losing brothers so I think he has David on his side to stick up for him now.
And I’m wondering about the person in the other box? Could that possibly be Wendy??
And can I just say how happy I am that they had Killian refuse to just put his tail between his legs and run away when told to leave Emma alone the way Neal did many years ago???? I thought they handled that brilliantly!! They kept him in true Hook character of in no way ever backing down from what he wants but also not being disrespectful to Emma’s dad since he was basically telling David “Look, you aren’t even going to be CAPABLE of giving orders as her father since you are going to be dead so it’s a good thing that I don’t have to be disrespectful when I refuse to stay away from her.” But, in spite of the fact that he knows David doesn’t want him around Emma, he saves him anyway and then makes it perfectly clear to David that he did it for EMMA!!!! This guy does EVERYTHING for Emma!!! Compare that to Neal who was ALL about self-preservation when August told him he knew he was Baelfire and then used the excuse that he wanted to make sure Emma would be safe so he could leave her to protect himself. If he really wanted to protect her he could have said “Great! Then you know I am familiar with the Enchanted Forest and the Fairy Tales. Since I now know she has this special calling and since I love her so much I will change and make sure she is protected so she can fulfill her destiny, because YOU (August) certainly did a HORRIBLE job taking care of her up to now so why would I EVER trust YOU to tell me what to do to keep the woman I love safe???”
And addressing the rum drinking was great!!!
I have been thinking this for awhile but after last night’s episode I am becoming more and more convinced that Killian (even as Hook) is the most emotionally mature of the characters on the shows. He seems to have an amazing ability to “read” other people and to understand exactly what they need, yet he also understands that no one truly grows or learns anything if they aren’t allowed to make their own choices – they can’t be TOLD what to do, they have to figure it out on their own. It’s actually sad because he is exactly the kind of parent that Baelfire wanted but rejected. He would be a great father and I think it is interesting that it seems they are trying to show some bonding between Killian and David.
Hi all! Super excited for tonight!!
Something I noticed that isn’t necessarily CS but does pertain to CS because it shows the kind of person Hook is . . . and the kind of person Neal is.
When Bae was dancing around the fire when Pan was the Pied Piper and Rumple magicked him back with him, Bae got mad and told Rumple that he should have given him the CHOICE of whether he wanted to go back with him or if he wanted to stay with Pan. He said that if Rumple had given him the choice he would have chosen to go home with him.
Then fast forward to when Bae is on Hook’s ship. Hook is the Captain of his ship, he has made it clear that he gives the orders and people follow them. Yet when Bae gets mad at him because of what happened to his mother, Hook tells him the truth and then tries to convince him that he can change and that they can be a family together – he tries to convince Bae to stay with, but he doesn’t force him to stay or order him to stay – he gives him the choice.
That is exactly what Bae said he wanted Rumple to do, to give him the choice to stay and that if given that choice he would take it. Yet when presented with the same scenario later on he does NOT make the choice to stay. He says he wants to go home to the Darlings but he knew when he chose to sacrifice himself for Wendy’s little brother that going back was not an option.
Now you could argue that Hook was horrible in turning Bae over to Pan and I used to think the same thing but the more I think about it the more I think that Hook didn’t seem to have the ability to leave the waters of Neverland at that point and if Bae didn’t want to stay with him, where else was he going to go? His only other option was Pan! Whether Hook turned him over to him or he took off on his own, Pan would have gotten him either way.
My point is that Hook seems to be very much into allowing people to make their own choices, whether they are good or bad ones. I think that Neal spent so long watching his father make the WRONG choices that he WANTS to make the right choices but, unfortunately he is his father’s son and allows the POWER he now has to MAKE his own choices to cloud his judgement and he ends up making the wrong choices.
I have gone back and watched some of the Neal clips and something isn’t right. I am bothered by something in Tallahassee, in the scene where he tells Emma that Tallahassee is off because there is a wanted poster for his arrest floating around because of the stolen goods he has hidden in the locker. I didn’t notice it the first time around but when I watched it this time I feel like he completely set Emma up. I think he knew Emma thought she loved him and so he purposely went and got the wanted poster and “guided” her into offering to get the stolen merchandise for him. And there just feels like there is too much self- preservation going on when August tells him he knows who he is – everything just seemed too easy after that.
Also, was anyone else bothered that Neal asked Rumple for the Dark One’s dagger? Because I don’t see any positive reason for him to have it. I don’t believe Rumple had told Neal about the prophesy at that point so there are only 2 reasons I can think of that he could want the dagger. One: to kill Rumple and Two: to become the Dark One himself. Which leads me to a crazy far off thought I have started to have – could Neal actually be the Home Office?? Could Tamara not have known that Neal was the Home Office but could he have actually been playing HER in order to keep tabs on what was going on? It would make sense that he would want to destroy magic.
Anyway . . . Hook’s saying that a man who doesn’t fight for what he wants deserves what he gets can still hold very true while allowing the people he loves to make decisions that do NOT include him – because fighting for what you want isn’t the same thing as forcing what you want to happen. I think that Hook showing Emma how much he cares about her by coming back and doing everything he can to #saveHenry is fighting for what he wants. I think that trying to become a better man is fighting for what he wants. But I also think that continuing to allow Emma to make her choices is also fighting for what he wants since he knows that is exactly what she needs to be able to do. The problem is that the choices she makes might not be good for her. Depending on what happens with Neal she could choose to be with him even though I do believe she loves Hook.
I don’t think Emma and Hook are suddenly going to ride off into the sunset together. That wouldn’t make for a very good TV show – there has to be some kind of on-going angst and problems and the characters have to continue to grow and develop. The more I think about it the more I think that Hook can “fight” for what he wants by continuing to become exactly what Emma needs and that means he has to continue to allow her to make her own choices. In some ways Hook may be one of the more emotionally mature characters on the show and after tonight’s episode we will understand more of his backstory. So far I get the feeling, at least of the villains, he is the most self-aware of who he really is and what needs to happen for him to become his true self again. And between he and Emma, I think he has a better understanding of himself than Emma does – Emma has a lot more growth to do than he does even if he IS a villain. So it may be that the greatest thing Hook can do to “fight” for Emma is to show her that he can be loyally consistent in waiting for her to make some really bad choices as she discovers who she really is.
Okay, so now that I’ve had time to process after watching the promo a few (*cough*) times, here is my observation.
I’ve been married for 9 years but I am thinking way back to like high school or college when you were first falling for someone. You tend to often be around them in groups at first and there is a lot of the sneaking looks at the other person (which we have seen Emma and Hook each do). There also tends to be a lot of flirty back and forth banter before there is ANY actual discussion of feelings for one another – this is typically how you test the waters to see if the other person is also interested in you. We have seen a ton of this of as well. There is that period of time where you were either already friends first and then discover that you are interested in more, or you develop a “friendship” during the course of the flirting due to a mutual attraction from the beginning – I would say Emma and Hook had the mutual attraction from the beginning, but during the time in Neverland have been developing their “friendship.”
Up until NL the flirting between Emma and Hook has been blatant – especially on Hook’s end. Since Hook returned and they went to NL the flirting has basically stopped. They have been spending time together in a shared quest like they did when they were after the compass – but there isn’t anymore sexual innuendo and Hook hasn’t been coming onto her. They have been talking and getting to know each other on a much deeper level – finding things out about each other, developing a mutual respect and admiration for qualities they knew each other had based upon their reputations (pirate, captain, mother, savior) but hadn’t actually experienced before.
Now we haven’t seen the episode yet so we don’t know the entire context of the clip but here’s what I am guessing is going on under the surface. At the beginning of the clip, Emma and Hook are obviously off by themselves somewhere but it can’t be that far away from the others based upon Emma telling him not to follow her at the end. So it seems they purposely went off together and had been sharing a drink. But here’s the thing – they both look nervous – especially Hook. They have NEVER looked nervous being alone together before. Going back to my high school analogy . . . you have that point when you have been flirting back and forth when you are 99% sure the other person likes you too and you are also 99% percent sure you each KNOW that you know you like each other and suddenly you are alone for the first time and you are suddenly like “OMG! What do I do NOW???” And suddenly you feel very awkward around the other person because you don’t know what to say or do even though you have been totally comfortable bantering back and forth flirting and talking with them for quite a while. That’s the feeling I get at the beginning of the clip.
The important thing here isn’t so much that Emma is nervous, it’s that Hook is nervous and SPEECHLESS, and EMMA is the one who breaks the silence. Emma is the one who breaks the wall of silence. She decides to say something to connect with him again because she doesn’t like feeling awkward around him. This is the one person who understands her, they get each other and being speechless around each other doesn’t feel right to her. But instead of allowing the wall to stay up she makes the first move!! Does Hook revert back to his flirty banter? Yes and no. In the past his banter has been all sexual innuendo – “when I jab you with my sword you’ll feel it” “my other attachments are still intact” etc. He has been the one driving the banter and Emma has been the one responding to it by coming back with a sarcastic response and rolling her eyes – which eggs him on to say some other firty sexual innuendo that gets a similar response or makes her walk away. But this time that doesn’t happen. His flirting is NOT sexual. Was I the only one who smiled like the Cheshire cat when he tapped his lips suggesting she could kiss him because it was so darn cute?? That was what made me start to think about high school flirting. This is NOT a pirate using a line on a woman in an attempt to seduce her. This is Killian being nervous and trying to find a way go after what he wants while still letting Emma make the choice.
And for the FIRST time Emma’s response is different – she still says something sarcastic back but she smiles when she says it like this time SHE is egging him on to say something else instead of the other way around. So Killian banters back because he sees a change and some hope. And when she says he couldn’t handle it, I believe Killian’s response back to her is his version of a “I’m 99% sure she like me too – I’m going for it and gonna see what happens” response. And then he just stands there and WAITS to see what will happen. He is STILL letting her make the choice. The best part is I truly think he was so EMOTIONALLY out of sexual innuendo mode that the WAY Emma kissed him completely took him by surprise. I really think he was hoping that she would kiss him and I think he honestly thought there was a good chance she would kiss him. But just like the way his flirting was kind of a sweet, almost innocent teasing tap of his lips I think he was expecting a somewhat brief but hopefully meaningful kiss. I don’t think he has realized just how much and for how long Emma has wanted him too. And based upon his reaction afterward I am guessing he didn’t realize just how much he actually LOVES her. When he said “As you wish” he was all Captain Hook, but when he turned away he was Killian Jones and his eyes gave away they fact that he knows he is in much deeper than he imagined. I think he almost looked a bit scared because I don’t think he has ever been in love as Killian Jones before. So even though he may have loved Milah in the past, the way he loves Emma is completely new to him. I also think Emma’s response was interesting. Even though she was also clearly affected and breathless, I think the kiss had the opposite affect on her. Even though the said the kiss was a one time deal I think that was a knee-jerk reaction because I think she was also testing the waters by kissing him. I think she realized when she kissed him that he has not JUST been flirting with her but that he really does care about her. I think Emma wanted to see if SHE would be okay if she kissed him – and when Hook told her that maybe she was the one who couldn’t handle it, that has actually been exactly what has been holding her back from Hook all along. So that kiss was Emma finally emotionally throwing her walls down and going for it. And when she walked away I think her little smile was that she realized that she is okay and that she CAN handle it. I think she was a bit proud of herself in that moment. This is just another reason why I think Emma and Hook are so good for each other. That kiss gave them each exactly what they each needed. Emma needed to know that she CAN handle loving someone – that it is safe, and that she can be strong and that she is worthy of being respected and allowed to make her own decisions (ie. Hook waiting for her to make the first move, don’t follow me, “as you wish”). And to know that if she loves someone he isn’t going to leave – Hook was going in for another kiss, SHE was the one who stopped it and told him not to follow her. And Hook needed to know that it isn’t just “the pirate thing” with him. He needed to realize that he is capable of loving someone immensely and wanting to make his own sacrifices and decisions for someone else’s good – to think of someone beside himself and to have someone really appreciate him for him and to realize that he isn’t just a villan and that he didn’t waste his life – he does have the chance for a happy ending.
Hook wasn’t affected by the curse but he was a different person before he became a pirate and Captain Hook. Since he has met Emma and especially since he has been back to NL he has been remembering who he is really is. The other characters still live as their Storybrook personas when they are in Storybrook even though they know who they really are. Hook has been Hook every time he has been in Storybrook. It wouldn’t make sense for him to stay as Hook if he goes to back to live in Storybrook. I think Emma’s kiss is the thing that will cause Killian Jones to be the persona that lives in Storybrook. And just like Gold is Rumple – lite, Killian will be Hook – like.
OMG OMG OMG!!!
OMG OMG OMG!!!
OMG OMG OMG!!!
Excuse me, I will just be over here in the corner watching that clip for the next four or five hours . . .
I can’t even compose myself to write anything yet!!!
That video is so, so, so cute!!! Especially when it gets to the part that says “he’s no Prince Charming” – works so well since that’s her Daddy!!
And how did I not remember Snow telling Emma that she had feelings for Hook????!
Love it!
You know, it would be very cool to have Emma be very certain of Hook’s love for her as another parallel to Snowing.
I like both of Eala’s theories. Pan is definately wanting Emma to feel alone like an orphan, unloved. She is obviously loved by several people but she has never ALLOWED herself to feel loved by someone from the get go because of her trust issues. In my opinion, what she had with Neal was pretty messed up – when I go back and look at it I don’t think it was ever really love at all. I think it was a lonely, “lost” teenager desparate for someone to connect with. Emma and Neal were connected in a very BAD way. They were involved in crime together, she ended up in jail, and became an unwed teenage mother. That sounds like a really dysfunctional relationship to me. Maybe as a mother with a 12 year old son I’m too old to be watching this show from the perspective they want me to be, but if Emma was my daughter there is no way I would look at that relationship and call it love. And if I were her mother and that guy showed back up when she was an adult I would be doing everything possible to remind her of the terrible decisions she was making while she was with him and how she ended up pregnant and in jail because of him. I would NOT be happy to see him back in her life again. Now, I understand there are circumstances that have to do with her being the Savior that complicate matters, but my point is I don’t think they loved each other – I think they found someone they could survive with.
So back to my point, Emma has never allowed herself to just put her walls down and believe that people love her. I still don’t think she truely believes her parents love her, and I think she still struggles with Henry also loving Regina. If Pan’s goal is to get Henry to feel unloved and to also get Emma to feel like an orphan and accept that she is unloved – I can see how they could be setting it up for Hook to be the first person she is just going to flat out accept loves her. He gets nothing out of saving Henry, he gets nothing out of saving her dad from the DreamShade (I’m assuming he will have something to do with that), and he has shown her that he cared for Neal. Hook is the first person who has loved Emma simply because of who she is, not because he is related to her or because he has some dysfunctional reason to need her. I think they learn a lot from each other and make each other better people.
So Hook could be kind of like Charming’s True Love’s Kiss saving Snow after she ate the apple. Is she accepts that he loves her then Pan won’t be successful in getting her to feel like an unloved orphan. It could even be that Emma doesn’t realize just HOW sure of Hook’s love she is until Pan’s plan isn’t successful – that could be the moment she realizes that she truely trusts him.
Like Eala said this could also lead into parallel’s of Snowings “I will always find you.” Even if something happens that separates them, she will always know that Hook loves her and so she will always be confident that they will find a way to be together – like what Snow says about if two people really love each other they will find a way to be together.
You could even take it a step further and, depending on what we find out about Hook’s back story, bring Hook into realizing he is truely loved by Emma as well. I’m guessing that the reason he is making such a big deal about David not telling anyone about the DreamShade is because he wasn’t told about it when he was on the island and that made him feel unloved. Hook obviously has issues about family abandonment/love as well. Maybe for Pan’s plan to be thwarted you have to be confident that love flows both ways. So if Emma can resist Pan’s plan then that would be how they would know that they both truely love each other.
hook up with Neal.
HaHa!!!
No, I don’t think she will go running back to Neal. I think it might be more of a situation where Emma and Neal end up together (only temporarily) if Hook steps back thinking he is doing the right thing out of guilt because of all the emotions he could have about Neal – they could end up together thinking they are doing the right thing for Henry. But, again, this wouldn’t really be Emma choosing Neal. I think that the trust issues with Neal will always be there for Emma and just because someone was your first love doesn’t mean that you should end up with them. I think this would only happen if Hook struggles with guilt over Neal – which I think is possible because he is obviously thinking more about his time with Baelfire since he has been in NL. But I don’t think it would be a long term thing – I do think they could stretch it out for awhile but it could give Emma even more time to realize that she really loves Hook and is choosing him from a healthy place.
But in the end I think that Hook will always remain true to his philosophy that a man who isn’t willing to go after want he wants deserves what he gets (or whatever it was that he said) and will go after her. . . if only to rescue us from a severe lack of chemistry between Emma and Neal as soon as possible!!!!
Hi there! It’s been FOREVER since I have been here and posted and since I have listened to the podcast but . . . I am a proud CS’er now and with everything that is going I HAD tcome me back!!! (generalized squealing and jumping up and down with excitement).
So I am definately looking forward to next week’s episode and how they are going to introduce Neal back into the picture. Everyone has been talking about how Emma is going to deal with everything but I am actually more curious about how Hook is going to handle things when he discovers that Neal is alive after obviously dealing with his past memories of Baelfire and thinking he is dead. Hook has been able to be supportive of Emma and understanding of her past feelings about Neal and they have a shared “love” of Neal that actually brings them closer together. But I think this is what might actually be the thing that gets in the way of CS.
I think that as we find out more about Hook’s back story and the type of person he was before he became a pirate we will find that he was quite an upstanding guy. I think part of his character development could be finding who he used to be and learning to be that person again – I think we are already seeing him begin to do that in the way he has been with Emma (ex. telling her he just had to be reminded that he had the ability to care about someone beside himself). It’s been discussed here that he isn’t selfish with her, he allows her to make her own choices, and that he is doing everything he can to help her even though there isn’t anything in it for him.
The problem will be when he learns that Neal is alive his past feelings and memories for Neal and the guilt that he has about how he abandoned him could greatly affect him. I can see him thinking that he is being chivalrous by stepping back so that BOTH Emma and Neal have a chance to make their own choices and so they can decide if they want to be together. The problem is that Emma is so confused and angry right now that if Hook steps back she will read that as him not really being interested and instead of really allowing her to make her own choice, he could unknowingly make her “choose” Neal thinking that Hook isn’t really interested. Then he would also end up thinking that Emma “chose” Neal even though she really wants Him!! I can see this happening and K and H having Emma and Hook dance around each other for a very long time thinking the other one is no longer interested, when they are in fact their true loves.
To me this solves the issue of Emma and Hook suddenly ending up together immediately after she has JUST acknowledged a lifetime of emotions about Neal. It addresses the fact that Emma and Hook do love each other but sometimes timing isn’t always right and the baggage people carry can prevent them from making the right choices. Plus, let’s face it – there is a LOT of bizarro family tree discussion that needs to be addressed in that particular relationship and family (and I’m guessing some things that may change or be resolved in future episodes). So I think they both need some time to individually and together deal with those issues.
I do think that CS will end up together in the end. There are so many parallels with Snowing that I keep wondering if CS were meant to be together from the beginning somehow but things got messed up and their lives took these bizarre paths that true love has managed to lead back to each other. But I would honestly be disappointed if in the next few weeks they were suddenly a happy couple – something just doesn’t feel right about that to me yet. I love them together so much that I want to see lots of character development together!
