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@Keb wrote:
Also, as for “all children call on the BF,” um, no. She doesn’t always come, either–Snow TRIED to call her and got Cora instead. (Yeah, Blue didn’t come because Snow never got to actually make her wish, but still.)
So, no, not all children call her and she doesn’t always come to them if they don’t. We don’t have any reason to believe Regina called her EVER and things didn’t get horrible for Regina until Daniel was dead anyway.
Just to clarify, Snow never wished for the BF. She was confused about which star she was supposed to call for and instead “Blue” came to her instead because had Snow called on Blue, she probably would have come. Cora had to prevent Snow actually calling on Blue.
Snow White: Is that the star? …Or is it that one?
(The Blue Fairy appears.)
Blue Fairy: Worry not, Snow White. I have found you.
Snow White: The Blue Fairy. I knew you’d come, but… I didn’t even make my wish yet.
Blue Fairy: Well, I know when I’m needed. Your mother, the Queen, is sick.
But, yes, Regina never called on Blue. We have never seen that.
@Keb wrote:
Oh, I won’t argue that Regina’s a coward, though I think it’s more pride than bravery that carries her through.
I argued this above, but cowardice is not simply running away , though that’s what Regina tries to do with Daniel because she cannot face her mother for fear of Cora’s wrath and magic. But Rumple remains a coward, no matter how much power he gets, because the sheer act of obtaining power is an act of cowardice. He’d rather hide behind power and magic than be his real self. Same with Regina. She hides behind magic and power because of her fears.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@WickedRegal wrote:
Look, to all Charmings, Swans, Stilskins, and my Fellow Regals, I can never fault any of you for thinking the way you do about certain characters, it’s the show’s fault, I know it sounds illogical as hell, but it’s the truth, it’s the show, Adam and Eddy seem to have been beating down on Regina, trying to show how wicked she is, and also Rumple, they beat down on him a little, but Regina’s been through a lot this past season, both in fairytale land to Storybrooke, from Daniel situation, Cora situation, which let me say my dears, that Cora truly loved Regina in the end, and for those who say Regina tried to kill her all this time, let me clarify something, Cora never apologized, and expressed her love to Regina like she did in 2×11 The Outsider, so take that into consideration, Regina expressed clearly to Cora why she did when she thought she was dead in the coffin, so I will admit Cora’s fault for installing that into Regina, her words nearly came back to haunt her in the end, and correction, it’s 75% Snow’s fault why Cora died, and 25% Rumples
Adam and Eddy created these characters and they can do what they will with them. To say that how Regina is being portrayed is the show’s fault is faulty logic because this show is about those characters and how they are written, not how the fans want them to be written. You have to look at the show as a text. Regina is wicked. She even admits it in the end of this season. She has done horrible vile things. So has Rumple. So has Cora. That’s what makes them villains. Regina cannot achieve redemption in one season because that is illogical and unbelievable. Her heart is very black and it takes a long time to come back from that. Even after she promised Henry she’d be good, she couldn’t bring herself to destroy the magic book. Magic and power are her weakness, she feels as though she needs them. She was never going to stay on the wagon, so to speak, just as it was illogical to assume that Rumple wouldn’t go dark side again once he felt that he had lost everything. And as to Cora, Snow was manipulated by Rumple, to be sure, but you can’t lay it all on Snow. Cora had done terrible things to this family. She killed Snow’s mother. She killed Snow’s nanny. She threatened the lives of everyone Snow loves. Maybe Cora should have gotten a trial but in fairy tales, justice is swift. And I’m sorry but one moment of truth from Cora does not absolve her of her MANY sins. Her heart wasn’t black because she removed it from her chest before she began to do anything truly wicked.
Now as for the blame on Blue Fairy, dears, come on, despite the show hasn’t shown, every child has called upon BF at least once, and she didn’t answer Regina, but she might have been scared of Cora, and I repeat Regina has made some very terrible choices, some Regals approve, others Regals don’t, but she’s not the only one. And c’mon, of course Rumple couldn’t bring Daniel back, I was referring to Whale, had Rumple allowed Whale to bring Daniel, like he did Gerhardt, it could have worked, and it shows in 2×05 The Doctor, it worked, but the wrong heart filled with darkness caused Daniel a lot of pain.
We have never ever ever ever once seen Regina call for the BF to help her. You cannot assume she did just to redeem your favorite character. Regina did not ask for help. Until that scene is shown on screen, you cannot make these leaps in judgement.
And on the note of Regina being a coward, dears, let me set this straight, Regina Mills, The Evil Queen is never, and will never be a coward like Rumple was. Regina has faced death more times on this show than anyone else, and stood with her head held high, and dignity intact waiting for the end. Regina has no fear of death, and if you can look death in the face, mock it, and smile, then too me, you’re the bravest of them all. True Regina is far more vicious, but look who her mother was, and look who her teacher was, a combination of the two will make you wildly vicious.
Please stop telling me what is “true” just because you’re an EvilRegal and I’m not. I’m reading the text and coming to my own conclusions, the same as you. Cora frightened Regina. Regina was scared of her mother and her mothers magic. Instead of telling her mother that she wanted to be free, she chose to try and run away. And then when she saw what her mother was capable of, Regina was so scared that she placed all her hatred on to a little girl who was not at fault at all. Cowardice comes in many forms. It doesn’t have to be running away. It can also be, like Rumple, trying to amass enough power to make up for your own fear. That’s what Regina did. She was scared of her mother, scared of being Queen, scared of living without love, so she learned magic and became powerful.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Anyone got any pics of Colin in Monte Carlo? I haven’t been able to find any yet and would love to see some!
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@Keb wrote:
Point is…the good guys aren’t all so good, the bad guys aren’t all so bad, and everyone’s got the chance to redeem himself if he really wants to. I think Regina and Rumple do and will ultimately. Same with Hook.
I think this is the takeaway point of it all. We could debate for pages and pages (and we have in the past) about who is worse but making a list of their bad deeds doesn’t mean there isn’t going to be redemption. Both characters have a long road to travel and for sure they are going to continue making mistakes, their path to redemption has to be believable after all.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I wonder if Lancelot really being alive is one of the stories that got changed, though. It was pretty early on in the season. He could have really been alive and come back to help Snow and Emma, but they decided to get them out of FTL in nine episodes and thus put Lancelot on the back burner.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@marty mcfly wrote:
When Cora was dying who was she talking to when she said “you would have been enough” Rumpel or Regina?
Great question. The full quote is:
This would have been enough. You would have been enough.
For the first sentence she’s looking at Rumple, indicating the idea of marriage and children with him. The second part, she switches and looks directly at Regina. So I think the “you” is referring to Regina, but the “this” means a life with Rumple and any children they may have had.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I’m one of the few people who never got on the “Lancelot is still alive” bandwagon. I actually wasn’t all that interested in him. He was a perfectly fine knight/guy, but I’d be much more interested in seeing Arthur and Merlin. I think it’s very likely that he is dead and we’ll only see Lancelot in flashbacks if get into Arthurian legend.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@Phee wrote:
Concerning Rumple, we haven’t seen what he did for all of those 300 years, so to automatically say that because he’s been around longer, he automatically has a much higher death count is just an assumption. Obviously, he did enough that he got a reputation, but his title and appearance also helped with the reputation
He got a reputation, but let’s remember, too, that it wasn’t as evil as maybe he believed. Belle tells him in Lacey that no one knows his reputation for killing (like he wanted with RH). Instead his reputation is as a master deal maker. I have always found it interesting that Rumple, the Dark One, made deals with people instead of outright killing them. He manages to manipulate the situation and the people, but he almost never resorts to killing them. When he does kill, it’s out of anger and fear: the maid, Milah. Whatever reputation he cultivated in those 250+ years, it wasn’t as a brutal terror.
@Phee wrote:
She didn’t have to kill him, she could have locked him up in the hospital basement, though granted, that may have still been a fate as bad as death.
Again, I agree. When Regina kills, she kills senselessly. The villagers, Kurt, ect, all of those were very senseless killings. Plus she’s taken how many hearts? Rumple has only ever taken one heart, that we know of, and that was in a fit of rage and hurt. I do not excuse it, not at all, but he finds the act of heart taking distasteful. You can tell when he learns that Young Cora has taken her own heart that even Rumple wouldn’t do something like that.
@WickedRegal wrote:
Let’s go to the very beginning, Regina was the most pure hearted person ever shown on the show, even more pure than Snow, because Snow started out selfish in the beginning.
Alright, I agree that Regina was very pure hearted at the age of 19 (or however old she was supposed to be in the Stable Boy) but I think this is taking it a bit far. Rumple was just as pure hearted and good as she was when we saw him in A Desperate Soul. His only fault was being a coward, and let’s face it, so was Regina. She couldn’t stand up to her mother, and her solution was to run away. Very Rumple. They have always been more alike than different. As for Snow, there is a huge age gap between Snow as selfish (which was for about 20 seconds and doesn’t actually show how she was the rest of the time) and Regina. I don’t think it’s fair to classify Snow as a selfish brat when we only saw her like that for a very brief period of time, and it was instantly reversed by her mother’s speech and then her mother’s illness. If anything, Snow is unbelievably unselfish and kind because she couldn’t kill someone else to save her own mother.
As for everyone’s points on Cora, let’s not forget that she was the one who wanted power. The original deal Rumple purposed had him spin the gold for her, but it wasn’t enough. She wanted the power. She wanted to have the control. She was ambitious and power hungry and proud. Rumple didn’t turn her evil, Cora was already on her way: she lied and stole (the gown). Everything she did she proposed to learn from Rumple, like taking a heart. Rumple didn’t ask her if she wanted to learn, she asked to learn it. Cora in my mind has always been far worse than either Rumple or Regina. And I don’t blame Snow, Rumple, or Regina for Cora’s death: that was all Cora.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@HappyEndings wrote:
Why did they bring them back from FL so fast if that was the orginal plan ❓
The story changed a bit. All writing is rewriting. And in the course of plotting S2, A and E decided to go a different direction. It happens. I, for one, am glad. I thought they spent too much time there as it was.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
