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I do think Rumpel has a hard time loving anyone besides Belle and Bae. Even then, he has trouble understanding what it means to love, to trust, to sacrifice. When it comes to Henry, even if there were not a prophecy haunting them, he might not be ready to love the kid just because of the blood tie, and more importantly to Rumpel, believe that the boy loves him.
I agree. He knows Bae can love him because Bae loved him before. And TLK proves that Belle loves him. But Rumple will always believe that he is unlovable (I actually think he’ll never stop being surprised that Belle loves him) and to open himself up to a grandson, potential daughter-in-law, and the Charmings is a bit too much for him. He doesn’t know how to handle that, except by distancing himself as much as possible so he won’t get hurt.
But like KFC said…context. I want the scene that comes after this one.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"O_______________________O <----reaction to the second item on your list. 1) That’s one of my big suspicions. 2) Not likely. But again O____________________________O 3) And then he becomes the New Pan? Like his Papa? That would be interesting, but I don’t think he’ll go alone. I think someone’s got to go with him. EDIT: you edited your list while I was writing!!! hahahaha. Now no one will ever know why I was making this face: O_______________________O
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Well, I don’t think it’s all magic. It’s magic that has consequences almost written into it that comes with a price. You do a bit of magic and it not come with a price. But the kind of magic Rumple and Regina wield come with prices because of the nature of the spell. Of course the Curse came with a Price. Of course becoming the Dark One came with a price. Those spells are so powerful that a price is required. Emma cast a protection spell over Gold’s shop and there wasn’t a price per se.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@ItachiIshtar wrote:
Unfortunately, I can’t see them fully redeeming Rumple until the end of the series. Knowing these writers, they feel like if Rumple or any of the other characters don’t continue to have dramatic obstacles, then there would be no show.
I don’t want them to redeem him until the end of the series, I think that’s how long it has to be for him because he has more to pay for than anyone. And there should be bumps and faults and stumbles, absolutely. But I think killing Henry and going that Dark Side is a huge misstep and one that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense given his small advancements this season. I think the first step is for him to let this “undoing” happen, whatever that may entail (it can’t be death. The writers aren’t stupid, they know losing Bobby would kill this show). Then the next steps are for him to learn how to be a good man and not use magic as a crutch. Magic is the easy way out and how he solves his problems. Want to be reunited with your son? Turn back the clock. Want your true love to remember you? Enchant a cup. And him learning to not use magic is going to take a long time, but that’s to be expected.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"And for a grown man (and not any man but the Dark One mind you?) to be afraid of a boy… afraid to the point of seriously considering killing him or sending him away, maybe, separating him from his family, alone, afraid in a world he know nothing about? (Ok, I’m making sweeping assumption, there, I know right?) No excuse at all. Nope. Niet. Non, non non.
Well, here I go again but…I don’t think he’s afraid of Henry. I think he’s afraid of what the word “undoing” means. It could mean death, it could mean the loss of his power. Both those things terrify Rumple, not so much Henry himself. Obviously, Rumple wants to live. And more than that, he wants his power. Without it, he goes back to being the village coward who was hated by people he loved. He hasn’t quite figured out that it’s holding on to magic that makes him coward. He’s had a small revelation about that in The Crocodile in the library with Belle but so much that he is willing to give it up entirely.
And are intentions and actions the same thing? If he plans to kill Henry or something equally vile, but doesn’t go through with it, has a change of heart and decides to be the better man Bae and Belle want him to be, then what do we say?
I don’t want to believe him capable of hurting Bae’s son but if he is capable then I don’t want to believe that he will follow through. I think it’s a total 180 from the development of his character this whole season."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think it comes down to “has Rumple learned anything at all?” in the 250+ years of all this. And for that I go back to the conversation he had with Nealfire in The Miller’s Daughter where he says “I’ve spent a life time looking for you for a chance to say that I love you and that I’m sorry.” And when Nealfire responds with “I never thought you’d go back on our deal” Rumple says “I just made the wrong choice.”
To me that says Rumple has learned something, that he can’t choose his power over his son and his family. I think he does want his son back, his 14 yr old son back. But Bae made it very clear he didn’t want to be 14 again and if Rumple doesn’t listen to that then he hasn’t learned anything and yeah, he would loose Belle. She said that she still sees good in him, that she’s always seen it, and I think Rumple wants to see it in himself.
SO….maybe this isn’t all a red herring like I proposed. Maybe he really is planning to do something terrible to Henry or turn back the clock on Bae. But at the last second, the two people he loves the most, Bae and Belle, talk him out of it. Manage to get him to see that he can’t behave this way. So they save Henry but even the attempt on Henry’s life is enough to separate father and son forever. Also, whatever he’s been planning to do to Henry has somehow threatened the existence of everyone in SB and they have to leave because somehow we’ve got to get the cast to Neverland.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"th Belle [Emilie de Ravin] to think about, so he’s distracted while all this is going on,” Carlyle says. “What he thinks about that isn’t really clear until Episode 22, at the very end, where you realize what he’s actually up to. It’s another game-changer of an episode. Everything turns around in that moment
Bless loose lipped Bobby. But it’s this quote that gets me. It’s not until 22 that we will realize what Rumple has been doing which to me means all these times until 22 where it looks like Rumple has gone very Dark Side (“wars have costs” for instance) is really him doing something else. Like he’s got this plan that won’t become clear until 22 but until that moment, we will all think he’s being Dark and scary.
Could Robert Carlyle have let it slip that every literally turns around in that moment? As in Rumple reverses time and turns back the clock in SB, like a ‘reset’ button.
But if he turns the clock back for all of SB, won’t that mean that everyone goes back 14 years? So we’re talking pre-curse, which means no Belle and for that matter no Emma so no Rumple, he’ll be Mr. Gold again. I don’t think Rumple wants that at all.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Poor writers. Right now the EvilRegals are angry and it looks like the Dearies might be next. I would never stop watching, but this season saw some great Rumple moments of him trying to change and I really don’t want such a HUGE step backwards such as him killing Henry or trying to dispose of him.
Welcome to the forums, YingLoveYang
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Well then the question becomes who is really responsible for Cora’s death. Is it Snow? It is Regina? Is it Rumple? Is it Cora herself?
I tend to believe that Cora is responsible for her own actions. But blame is in the eye of the beholder. Rumple believes he was justified in manipulating Snow because he was dying and thus he can claim “I did nothing.” Snow believes she made the right decision in that moment because of all the evil Cora had done but now believes herself to be responsible. Regina thinks Snow is to blame but ignores all the terrible things her mother has done because she finally had one really great moment with Cora. It’s messy. But having been confronted with death after almost 300 years, Rumple doesn’t want to come close to that again so he goes Dark Side.
This season has been pretty big for Rumple. He’s made progress, he has. He finally openly admitted that he was a coward and that magic is his crutch. He stopped himself from killing Hook because of Belle. And then he opened up to Belle and Bae. So when the writers take a big step backwards like this, I become very confused. And with other spoilers we’ve seen, we assume he's going to try and win back Belle and that (in the same episode) there are some pics of Bae/Henry/Rumple having what looks like family time. So I have to believe that there will be another part of this episode where Rumple relents and steps up to prevent more bloodshed."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Yet, with the return of his powers, Mr. Gold seems to have grown even darker overnight.
I may be one of my biggest problems with this scene. It comes on the heels of one of the most heart breaking and beautiful scenes EVER in OUaT, the Belle/Rumple Rumple/Bae one. From that to this sneak peak just seems…wrong. If Cora hadn’t died last episode I’d probably be trying to figure out if this was Cora in disguise.
So, that it? Rumpel isn’t strong enough to stand for and by himself? He will always need someone behind him to hold his hand so that he can stay at bay? He needs Belle or Bael to be his new crutch? He can’t walk without it? So he will always depends on someone then? like the big incapable coward he is? And what he said about wars costs? Really Rumpe, really!? After what Snow have done for you?
Well he is the Dark One. Any attempt he has shown towards being good has come about because of someone else. It’s never been him trying to be good for the sake of goodness, it’s always him trying to be good because of someone else. Which I admit is problematic because he becomes reliant on another person and not seeing the good in himself. But I think Rumple is a vastly complicated character. The Dark One’s Curse makes him Dark but he also believes it about himself. Everyone tells him he’s evil and a coward so therefore he thinks he is and acts accordingly. How would the Dark One who is also a coward act in this situation? Just the way Rumple is acting in that sneak peak. I think he fears death and right now he is under the impression that Henry will cause his death so his reaction is to revert to darkness. In “In the Name of the Brother” Rumple threatens to kill the whole Charming clan because he’s terrified of what has just happened with Belle. When confronted with fear, Rumple goes dark. I think he actually likes Henry (he’s shown that several times) but right now he can’t like anyone because of this #$%@ prophecy.
God. I’m justifying him again aren’t I?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
