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I sorta doubt the show would introduce Persephone (whom most of audience probably haven’t heard of)
Ooooh I don’t know about that. For starters most people whether in high school or college have to take some sort of rudimentary world history course which will *always* have a section on Ancient Greece. And while you’re learning about the various wars and democracy, you also learn about Plato, Euripides, and almost without fault the Eleusinian Mysteries, the most famous secret rite in Ancient Greece. And those mysteries are alllll about Persephone and Demeter (I mean, fairly standard agrarian cult but incredibly famous). Even if people don’t quite recall the Mysteries, the “Rape of Persephone” is a pretty famous trope in fantasy (or just literature).
Also, by this point it’s episode 20 and Hades can easily have dropped a few lines about his missing wife, Persephone. And whadda know…Emma just so happens to run into her!
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"But, that doesn’t mean the writers don’t have a real private opinion or that they aren’t really aware of problematic elements (e.g. Jane Espenson saying subtly inserting a line about the problematic elements of Stockholm Syndrome).
Of course not. Which is why once a season now we get a heavily focused Neal episode (405 was rife with SF themes and 505 was just straight up SF, really). I tend to think that A and E know they sold their story and their art and occasionally lament that by getting either meta (the S4 finale in which the Author is a total stand in for them, a guy who has a mean boss who says that he [they] don’t writer stories people want to read) or they put the more popular buzz worthy ship aside and write how they really feel. But the next week what happens? It’s back to the “hottest” “buzz worthy” ship out there.
I think we won’t really find out what the writers were trying to do or say with certain characters or relationships until the show is done though.
Oh sure, absolutely. I just, honestly, don’t for a second think they are playing some sort of long con. When you listen to A and E speak they talk about Emma still being a strong woman, they talk about this show being about hope and family, they talk about how Hook and Emma have had to struggle so much but their love is stronger for it. They may not actually believe it internally but money talks and in TV ratings/eyeballs = money. So if they want their show to continue on for at least another two years (they’ve said they have 7 years worth of stuff) then they have to promote/write/give service to what sells. And that’s why it feels like it’s drawn out: they want to get to 7 seasons so it’s too early (for them) for everyone to be happy without shipping conflict. Look what happens when you have no romantic obstacles: you become Snowing.
ETA: however you and I have had this conversation many many times. If it so happens that in the end it was all a long con and they go back to some sort of morally upright thesis, then I’ll go along for the ride and give you a cookie. I just..I just can’t put any sort of #hope into that ever again.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"nevermore wrote: My crackpot theory du jour is that this is young Persephone. Though how this might relate to firebirds, I’ve no idea 🙂 Persephone = Meg from the Disney cartoon Hercules, which, if I understood correctly, used the story of Persephone. It relates, because Hercules rescued Meg from the Underworld (unlike in the real Greek mythology).
I don’t discount this lady being Emma’s mentor/Mother figure/bail bonds lady friend but I’m not so sure about Meg. I guess the Disney film uses the Persephone myth but only in the most loose way possible. You have a young woman and Hades and that’s really it. Persephone isn’t really an actor in the tragedy. She just gets abducted; Demeter is the real player. Meg sold her soul to Hades and works for him; Persephone just cries a lot. And while you could call the end of the myth a rescue, it’s a very temporary one given that Persephone has to descend every six months. So it’s like…a very loose connection.
ETA: though you’re right that Disney plays very fast and loose with Megera’s real story from Greek mythology.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"My crackpot theory du jour is that this is young Persephone
I was thinking something along the same lines. I’ve also got her pegged as another mother figure to Emma–and she’ll give some line about how she learned to be a good mom from *her* mother who never stopped looking for her.
Though how this might relate to firebirds, I’ve no idea 🙂
If we think about it as a phoenix and not the Russian myth, then Persephone descends and ascends with frequency.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"So Emma’s superhero cape came from a stranger we’ve never heard of or has even been alluded to? She’s our new MacGuffin, if the non-magical variety.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I actually read that as good news for us. She helped launch Once Upon a Time. So in a way it’s like one of her golden children. And also with the family relation, she may be more lenient to it.
It doesn’t matter. If the ratings keep falling and the ad $$ leaves, then it gets cancelled. She can’t save cause “favorite.” I mean,that’s more or less what Paul Lee did with Galavant and….look how that worked out. Based on S5 ratings. we’re going to get a S6. That’s all we can do: one season at a time
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"In other news
I’m kinda hoping some of our headcanons prove right and that Firebird shows that Emma bought the red jacket because it reminded her of Neal
However this show has taught me never to hope.
Slurpeez is right. A lot of this is just salt on the wound. Especially since I’m convinced that Neal will be appearing in 512 and say goodbye to Henry. I think it’ll probably be an Emma centric with a large portion of it dedicated to Hades with the savior themes of resurrection (except for Neal of course) coming into play
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Favorite Moment of the Season
I forgot to answer this one!
Easily the 3 min conversation between Rumple and Neal in Manhattan. That was superb. Excellent acting and emotion. I’ve watched that scene so many times.
“…try abandonment”
I mean, I already loved Neal Cassidy SO FREAKING MUCH from what I had seen before, but that line did me in. His pain and his jaded feelings…I got them. I got them more than I wished I did.
Runner up is Neal and Rumple holding hands as Rumple lay dying after Neal hears Rumple’s phone ball to Belle. Oh god. That moment. With Emma listening and all the SF feels. Full of love indeed. Full of love (also, the Belle/Rumple phone call itself was dynamically beautiful)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I finally have time to sit and answer my own question.
At this stage, yes Snowing are superfluous. PoM is right: they just stand around, usually totally useless, spouting platitudes about hope. And even if the show turned them into boring heroes, at least they would be heroes nonetheless. But then they went and made them baby snatchers and turned them into self-righteous morally bankrupt heroes. They add nothing to the story at all anymore which is a shame since they are how it all started.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
