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My point is that the general gist is that Latina Lily was replaced by white Lily thus the show has no POC.
That’s not the general gist at all. People are upset that Lily grew into a white woman. No one has ever said that the show has no POC. Obviously they do. It’s how they TREAT THEM that’s the problem.
I posed this question the other day but is it possible that when the casting department cast Agnes, the description they were given was for Mal’s long lost daughter rather than Lily so they looked for someone who looked like Mal’s actress. Then when they realise it was supposed to be the same person, they did there best to make Agnes look like young Lily?
This bothers me because you’re making a lot of conjectures with no evidence. A baby that has never spoken, only been seen once or twice, and has absoltuely no role to play is a totally different situation than the Anti Savior, best friend of the Savior, daughter of the main guest villain, someone who has spoken, hand an entire centric with the main character, and was teased to the hilt that she would be returning. You keep trying to pass the buck, as it were, but there was no break down in communication. A and E knew exactly who Lily was when they case the younger version. They knew she was Mal’s daughter and the Anti Savior. They wanted someone who looked like Lana Parillia in order to drive home the Emma/Regina and Emma/Lily parallels in that particular episode. A and E TOLD the casting department to get someone who resembled Regina in order for that episodes thesis of relationships to make sense. In other words, the casting department went into casting adult Lily knowing that they had cast someone with Latina heritage for her younger self. In order to compensate, they had to change Agnes Brukner’s look to make it “work.”
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Ok, rules.
1) Everyone is ONLY allowed to vote ONCE (it’s about honor, guys!)
2) The poll will close the night of the finale, but pre airing.
3) Just vote. We don’t need a ton of categories and long winded discussions;we totally have threads for that. We used to have polls here all the time…remember?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"He told her some of it, just not with the same degree of honesty. Some fans believe that once her heart was returned she was able to remember what happened at the well; I’m not so sure about that but he did tell her some of it.
Yes he did say his heart was almost totally black. As for the fan theory, that’s interesting but nothing confirmed. (cause of course)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"*casts vote*
May the odds be ever in your favor.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Even if they did cast a latina actress for adult Lily, wouldn’t there be complaints that yet another POC character is shoved off screen when the Mal/Lily storyline inevitably ends?
You mean would this fandom find reasons to complain if a Latina Lily were kept around? Of course. If they kept Latina! Adult! Lily around, this fandom would complain that she was eating up the screen time of other regular characters who are too often silent or not seen for long stretches of time–Belle, Will, and Henry most notably. They’d complain if a Latina Lily left at the end of the Mal/Lily arc because yet another POC was easily disposed of after their story came to an abrupt end and the show turned back to the white cast of characters.
We’re a fandom that complains. We’ve always been a fandom that complains. We will continue to be a fandom that complains.
But sometimes, our complaining is actually justified and not the whining of people who want things the way they want it for reasons. Leave the Latina Lily issue aside. It is becoming increasingly clear that OUAT has a very real problem with representation, be it race, gender (hint: it’s not binary), and sexual orientation. I don’t think OUAT’s problems stem from A and E actually being racist, anti-different genders, or homosexual.
It stems from the fact that they grew up and are a part of a media landscape that is very resistant to change. White heterosexual people dealing with problems. That’s TV. You get a token black/other POC (because in TV land the difference is just between white and non-white as if the world is made up that way) character to make it “equal.” Nowadays it’s not so much the color of you skin that make you token, but sexual orientation. The lesbian best friend, the gay best friend or the gay/lesbian next door neighbor who is there to provide “a different way of seeing” but also the comic relief when the white heterosexuals find life baffling. TV thinks, “hey that works!” because it *did* work and TV is very resistant to change.
People look at Kerry Washington’s Olivia Pope on Scandal and are in *awe* that there’s a powerful black woman “handling” things. As if the real world doesn’t provide ample proof that there are actual powerful black women in this world who handle things–the mundane and big events–every day!
A and E are following the way it’s been done for years. Years and years. That doesn’t absolve them and their truly unequal show but this isn’t just an OUAT problem. It’s not just an A and E problem. It’s a media problem. It’s a world problem. And that’s why it matters.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"She has always appreciated and been responsive to gestures, something Rumple knows
FOR EXAMPLE
I don’t think Rumple was manipulating her in The Crocdile (1 and 3 GIFs) but I think he is remembering Belle’s reaction to his heartfelt apology and goodbye in that episode and “trying it again” as it were
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I hate to think it but I do think it was manipulation. Rumple wanted to be the one to return Belle’s heart. If he truly wanted her to be free of him and move on with Will, wouldn’t it have been sweeter for Will to return her heart?
Exactly. Will is no stranger to hearts, taking and giving. He could have easily given Belle her heart and Rumple, if his intention was truly knowing that Belle was safe and happy, could have been content knowing that Belle was fine, safe from Regina once more and that Will would watch out for her. But instead he saunters into the shop, gives this huge speech, and then literally puts her heart back in her chest. He knows that this will hit her like a ton of bricks and that whatever feelings she has for Will will be temporarily (or perhaps longer) squashed by the gesture. She has always appreciated and been responsive to gestures, something Rumple knows.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"t was closure for Rumple, but did it bring any closure for Belle?
I think it’s pretty clear that it did not give Belle closure. Her letting go of Will’s hand when he reached for her seems pretty neon flash-y that suddenly the Rumple-inflicted wounds that were just beginning to heal (a little at least) were reopened. And I won’t lie, part of me wonders if that wasn’t Rumple’s intention all along. He is the master manipulator and while long ago I would have thought it extremely unlikely that he’d manipulate Belle is such a manner, he clearly has no qualms about doing it now. Over and over.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love""He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Robert Carlyle may be back next season as Rumple in flashbacks, but Mr. Gold will be dead in the present day.
Yes it’s a way to keep him contracted but to ease up on his requirements if Bobby wanted less to do, doesn’t want to film as much, or is simply unhappy in the way some things are being told on screen. Having Rumple totally out of the flashbacks would be weird after 4 seasons of seeing how he literally knows everyone.
Hence, Belle’s love for him will live on in memory only, while her relationship with Will shall continue, having been so sanctioned by her dearly departed husband.
I have such mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, the idea that the “ex” has to sanction anything makes me see Feminist Red. Belle surely doesn’t need his permission to move on. It’s nice to have his understanding and his love, but the idea that the relationship between Will and Belle (whatever I personally feel about it, see below) isn’t legitimate or real because Rumple hasn’t given his okay is rather…icky. On the other hand I’m sure it would give Belle some peace of mind to know that Rumple just wants her to be happy and has removed himself so that she can move on if she so chooses.
As for Will and Belle…yeah, I still hate this. And it’s not even because of Rumbelle at this point. It’s just because of Will/Ana. (no seriously. tell me what happened to her already)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
