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But the bigger problem I think is that these characters, whether villains or heroes, no longer seem to have any motivations outside of the desire for relationships
Lordy Lord. THAT
“Oh yes, and here’s the cute girl who likes books, she’s sort of dumb as a board despite this, but she’s nice, and most importantly, boys and girls, she’s eye candy.” #headdesk
Oh yes. She is every nerdy boy’s fantasy of a librarian who dresses in the most impossibly un-librarian clothes ever but can talk to about all your nerd fantasies. At some point, they’ll have a close up of Bell chewing on the end of a pencil while leaning over and reading a book, the top buttons of her blouse undone. It’s so 1980s cliche.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Dismissing that as silly fans just being angry about their ship, alienates an entire group of smart, capable viewers in the most insultingly patronizing way possible
This part cannot be emphasized enough. Thanks in large part to social media, the ideas about what exactly is wrong with our media landscape are being talked about not only with more frequency but also at lightening fast speeds. Ideas are decimating faster and with more accuracy. Showrunners enjoy interacting with their fans but are also alarmed at the kind incredibly smart discourses that are happening. We’re being to see how flawed TV and media are and instead of blind praise and simply “turning off when we turn on” we’re actively critiquing.
And the most frustrating thing about the criticism to the show is that it’s always met with condescension. Dismissed as just the complaints of bitter shippers
I was recently somewhat “attacked” (though really in the politest way possible) on my blog by someone who wrote, “I know you hate Hook for shipping reasons and that’s fine but you’re better than these double standards” (as I angrily spoke out about Hook’s last episode, 415). I had to inform this anon that I didn’t hate CS or Hook because I was an SF. I hated them for the way Hook and CS has been written. It’s not fair to simply label me as a hater based on something I prefer.
(and yes, by the same token, it’s not fair to say that someone hates SF only because they like CS)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Why the heck is she Marian? For what reason? Any spoilers I missed regarding that little explanation?
That one we can’t figure out outside of “to mess with Regina”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"haven’t you people ever seen a romantic comedy before, this is totes that.
And that’s pretty much the answer you’d get from anyone in charge of writing media. But I will say this; at the Arrow show runner is open to conversation. A and E would just shut you down
I would never be a CS shipper just because I enjoyed the poetic beauty of SF more, but if they hadn’t written CS the way the had–full of the “common” ways other couples are written–I would not have found it as distasteful as I do.
Happy Monday all. Going to be out all day.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Okay, POM. I owe you an answer.
I think it boils down to two things
1) TV as a business and
2) Rape culture as an institution of media.
I’m going to tackle the second point first. We’ve had many discussions of rape culture here in SF because many of us feel that it absolutely pertains to CS and what is happening on our screens. I won’t belabor that point because, like I said, we’ve talked about it. Most people hear the word rape and throw up their hands and instantly get defensive because if there is an objective evil in this world it’s sexual assault and violence. There is no good way to spin it and if you try, you’re labeled very bad things. But what this mean is that when we try to have conversations about rape culture, which is *not* the act of rape, it gets bogged down in the emotional defenses of those who don’t want to see their favorite ship or hero be labeled as a rapist, which, again, isn’t technically what is being said.
Rape culture is about the way media tells men and women need to interact with one another. It is one of the oldest stories in modern media. It gets labeled cutesy things like “the chase” or “the pursuit.” It is when TV, books, movies tell us that a man’s unending pursuit of a woman, in spite of the fact that she is telling him no (no matter what her own internal and conflicted feelings may or may not be) is okay. That it is inevitable that she will give in to him because 1) he is clearly in love with her and how could she resist him charms 2) he is really good looking and/or 3) she doesn’t understand her own heart because she is damaged and therefore unable to appreciate his affections. But he will heal her if only she would let him.
It is every story under the sun and the plain fact is we are all victim to it because it’s played off as familiar TV drama and “it’s only a TV show” which means that it “doesn’t matter” but what we fail to recognize is that TV is very much a lens into our own cultural mores and that TV is a reflection of the way we live our lives. The “chase” of a woman by a man is seen as romantic because it’s what media tells us should be romantic. Our culture informs our own opinions on the world and is constantly reinforcing the notion that this pursuit is a good thing.
This is a world where 50 Shades of Grey is seen as a romance novel instead of the deeply disturbing example of rape culture. In which the woman, a weak minded vessel who has no personality, falls prey to a dangerous good looking man whom she readily gives up everything for because underneath his cold, violent exterior surely there is a good man and he’s being ever so good to the woman (he bought her a car, he puts her up, he’s arouses her sexually) that the clearly disturbing overtones are ignored.
Everything from 50 Shades, to OUAT, to even pairings that I do like (Olitz for example) are problematic because they center on a woman being pursued by a man who is almost forceful at times with his affections but gets a pass because “he clearly loves her so much.”
The TV landscape wants you to find those distasteful actions not necessarily over the top romantic but indicative of a man who, despite his flaws, is deeply in love and what woman could resist him. Just look at all he does for her! They play into what women are told they should want–a man who will fight for them, EVEN WHEN THE WOMAN DOESN’T WANT IT.
CS is part of the rape culture institution in media. Adam and Eddy aren’t to blame, they aren’t the inventors of this, they just fell in to the same trap that thousands of other examples from media fell into. It’s the idea that this is how stories are told and most people don’t recognize it for what it is because they are too swept up in the heady romanticization of it all.
For Cs specifically, I don’t care if Emma was conflicted. I don’t care if the word “no” never actually passed from her lips. Her body language and what she did say were enough that there should have been a full stop to any and all pursuit. Not saying no does not mean saying yes. If that means that Hook never got to be with her, then FINE. We live in a world where instead of teaching men, “don’t rape!” we teach women “here’s how not to get raped” or “here’s how not to attract unwanted attention.” It’s highly disturbing because it takes the most objective evil on the planet and puts the blame on the victim.
I realized I just talked a lot but to bring this back to point number one: TV is a business. TV cares about its bottom line. It cares about its money and its ads and it cares about buzz. Because CS is just following the pattern of many other TV and other media couples of relentless pursuit that eventually gave way to “the inevitable” it’s sellable. Yes Jmo and Colin have chemistry; Colin a very attractive man; the media machine that are TV websites run on eyeballs coming to check out what they have to say. Sexy Colin + Steamy CS = eyeballs = money. It’s not hard for ABC see which direction the wind was blowing. It was blowing to CS. Even in episodes like Manhattan, an episode that should have been Bobby, MRJ, JMo focused, there were interviews about Hook and with Colin about how Neal entering the picture could hurt or help CS!
ABC doesn’t really care about the morality of it all because rape culture is still a very controversial topic. It’s something that either gets labeled as the rantings of a bunch of feminists or as something that is slowly coming to light in a modern world that has ignored it for fall too long. It gets extra complicated because when people do want to talk about what is happening in media we don’t argue facts: we argue emotional truths. I cannot recommend enough the Hulk Critic’s blog on this basic fact. ABC cares about selling ABC. CS is selling ABC (well, trying), whether we like it or not.
In conclusion, are the writers trying to write CS as this epitome of true love despite evidence to the contrary like Twilight did with Bella and Edward
So to answer your actual question….they are writing CS the way thousands of other couples in media have been written because it’s what sells and it’s what culture believes they should want to see/hear/read. In order to change the culture, you first have to change the things that make up that culture, and that includes how relationships between men and women are presented. There is no yet-to-be-uncovered story. The story you see is just the next one in a long line of what media thinks romance is and how they should sell it.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"So the question really becomes, why did the Apprentice want Lily cast out of the EF? Or was it the Author? Did he think that made a better story.
Based on the Apprentice’s confrontation of the Author, he didn’t personally want Lily cast out of the EF. He said “how dare you make me send that child away.” So yeah, all the Author’s doing.
So…who REALLY has the upper hand in this twisted dynamic? The Sorcerer chose the Author but the Author can work his quill on everyone, including the Apprentice. Does that mean The Author could control the Sorcerer? Or no? Could an unchecked Author write out the Sorcerer?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"So we’d have Emma as agent of order, and Lilly as agent of chaos
Yes, that. Makes me wonder how familiar A and E are with Michael Moorcock and the Eternal Champion.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"The bright gold light could have covered Malcolm’s rapid aging in order to keep the show “family-friendly” but think rapid aging as in Gothel from Tangled.
Seeing a son stab his father in a bizarre suicide/murder situation is family friendly but rapid aging isn’t?
Pan’s body vanished because the arc was over and they needed to dispense with the current villain.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I have an issue with that spell, like was it even a legitimate spell? I think all it did was open up the portal and send Lily to our world. I don’t think anything was actually transferred from Emma to Lily. Because like the apprentice said, all babies are blank slates anyway. There’s nothing to transfer.
Yeah I think it was a show for the sake of calming down Charming. The Apprentice clearly believed that there is nothing to transfer but then he magicks up some spell because Snow and Charming won’t leave well enough alone.
So the question really becomes, why did the Apprentice want Lily cast out of the EF? Or was it the Author? Did he think that made a better story.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
