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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
No Rumple in these scenes with the dagger, I noticed.
Apparently Bobby wrapped a day before
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Number of couples having sex, kissing or saying “I Love You” for the first time:
Emma and Hook in 422
Number of new pregnancies
Regina
Number of fatalities/Number of possible fatalities
Emma and possibly Rumple
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I managed to shrink the chat, but if I go to a new page it returns to its previous size. And yes, the BLOOP is likely to make me homicidal
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"*cries* I typed out this huge response, hit submit and the forum ate it in a 500 internal server error.
Trying again…
RG, of all the things I would have expected from the OUAT forum, it wasn’t for someone to casually bust out Joseph Campbell! *jumps up and down in delight* Now, if we just could throw in Mircea Eliade, my life would be complete!!! ^-^
J’adore Eliade!!! I like you.
I thought about throwing some Eliade and Jung into this mix, but maybe at another date.
So I think if we were to revert this back to the sort of meta-structure question that RG is talking about, it depends on whether A&E decide to do a good vs evil story where good/evil are absolute, or whether they think of it as contextual. I think they’re constantly moving between the two, making it hard to figure out what side of the divide they fall on. Is Rumple pure evil? Well, over time he moves from a trickster archetype to a Machiavellian ruthless dirtbag to essentially, an apparently irredeemable character.
Of those two choices, it’s for sure the latter. Pan is the only evil that stands out and proves the exception to the rule. But when you look at Regina, Hook, Cora, Ingrid and even Zelena to a lesser extent, they did not begin their lives as the Big Bad, and for those that have gone off to Dead Character Island, they did not end as thus. It’s highly contextualized.
I agree that Rumple began as the Trickster (ie: episodes 101-107). What made him so fascinating to watch was that ultimate truth was that under both the Trickster (and the Wizard gets his fair share in there as well) was really The Father. What drove the Trickster and The Wizard was really the Father.
The big issue for me stems from the fact that they’ve removed his center, the Son that informed the Father, but they haven’t seen it through to its logical conclusion: the Father becoming this “dirtbag” (new archetype! lol) because of the loss of the son. They haven’t really explored what it means for Rumple to be The Father but post-Son. This is why his season 4 arc is so frustrating as a viewer (and someone who went around calling themselves RUMPLEsgirl for 3 years now…). This descent into the Chaotic Evil (and yes, I’d agree he’s there) has an easy answer to the question of “why” but it’s never expressed on screen; just mad grabs for power.
(side note: I wrote an entire essay on Archetypes in SF one day. I may have to dig it out. I only have over 30,000 posts of my own to find….)
The other option is that the endgame is actually a battle between absolute good and evil but “incarnated” in specific people. In which case, Rumple the man has been consumed by the DO magic, and his personality no longer mediates how the dark magic works itself out in the world. I think that depends on their theory of magic. Is magic just an abstract force (we get this sense with this whole conservation of magic in the universe thermodynamic theory they got going), “colored” by the essence of those who touch it, or is magic dark or light, and hence colors the essence of those whom it touches?
Without bashing A and E here, but I don’t think they have a clear theory on magic. It seems to be a general universal force but split into dark magic and light magic. I wish they would just do MAGIC and then the person chooses how they wield it (ie: Harry Potter magic) but that’s not the route they’ve taken. They insert items or people who specialize in dark magic and it stands opposed to light magic.
They seem to have some fundamental principles in place like magic = energy and cannot be destroyed and they’ve explored sympathetic magic with hearts and the idea that with a piece of someone you can control/manipulate them.
A and E and the rest of the team more or less seem to insert their laws and concepts of magic more willy nilly than we’d like and thus why it feels like we’re running into contradictions or retcons, as we like to call it in TV land.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"We are all disgustingly codependent on each other…that is all
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"[mod]
Please be aware of the following: if you are posting a fan set report, please read it carefully and EDIT OUT any curse words. You may star them, replace them with something less curse-y, or take them out altogether. But they cannot be in the finale posting
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"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Is there anyway we can make it smaller? It takes up half the screen and it’s basically impossible to read a thread while it’s up
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
