[surayya]

Now this is a wicked shipper 😉

[surayya]

1. The moment we finally see Emma call Killian by his name for the first time, all on her on volition 🙂

2. Great meta from emmaducklingswan.tumblr…

“This moment right here is so gorgeous and so important, Emma has to focus on a true love couple being reunited together, and what she sees – and the image that makes her eyes to flutter – is her and Killian together, she sees them together and this is how she finds a way to spark her magic.
Magic is emotion, and here, it’s hope, it’s love, that had Emma doing this.
She used the hope and love of a true love couple to find another one. Her reflection with Killian at her side is what made her make magic”
http://emmaducklingswan.tumblr.com/post/82641039816/this-moment-right-here-is-so-gorgeous-and-so

3.

This is the moment that Hook truly realizes that unlike Ariel, for that brief moment back on the JR he stopped believing and he is truly regrets that he did, especially seeing his Swan look so hopefully at him…. SOB!!!!  (everthehero.tumblr)

[surayya]

Just replace “she” “My dear” & “her” with “Swan” or “Emma”, because we all that is who he’s really referring to lol 😉

Hook hiding his hook so as not to ‘set off’ Henry- for Emma’s sake 😉

[surayya]

PriceofMagic wrote:

I think Emma would want to stay in Storybrooke. It is her home after all and it’s a nice in-between between the real world and FTL. Plus it has modern medicine, proper plumbing and toilets, electricity, etc. Storybrooke is it’s own character, it would be a shame to kill it off permanently.

I always get a kick out people suggesting this but they never elaborate as to what kind of work would they do like Hook, and RH in SB? RH couldn’t cross the state line without losing his memories. They both have the choice of of staying in town right now but both seem not to live there nor want to adapt to the new life now that they are currently living in SB. I think they would prefer their original home in FTL, and they should return to were they came at least there they can pursue other opportunities. Notice Hook only came back for Emma, not for SB so I really doubt if Hook would want to stay in a place where he can’t have some outside adventure of some kind.

For me it comes down to these are people who believe in magic & the power of TL etc (Not modern day concepts), they cant leave SB- so therefore any descendants will also feel the same as their parents before them or they will start to modernize & loose that belief system & therefore ALL the fantasy & magic of EF/FTL will eventually be lost & that would be a shame IMO. I honestly want everyone to go back to the land where the power of TL & magic is normal/accepted/ happens + as you say the men in EF/FTL have skill sets suited to taking care of their loved ones, they dont have that in SB- modern day skills can easily be translated into EF/FTL lifestyle, but the EF/FLT skills dont translate well into modern day living/lifestyle. The only reason SB functions at all ATM, is because many people are back who also remember their cursed selves for 28yrs ie. If Whale hadn’t been brought back (or those cursed to be nurses previously) it wouldnt matter that modern medicine is available, as their wouldnt be anyone around who knew what to use or how to use it- but a doctor turning up in EF/FTL will have skills that can be used despite not having modern medicine at their disposal.

[surayya]

[surayya]

His face says it all!

[surayya]

I think Emma would want to stay in Storybrooke. It is her home after all and it’s a nice in-between between the real world and FTL. Plus it has modern medicine, proper plumbing and toilets, electricity, etc. Storybrooke is it’s own character, it would be a shame to kill it off permanently.

I still want to see Emma experience EF as it really is, as she was only there when it was all but destroyed/ruined & full of evil creatures prowling around- ie. It was not the place she would/should have grown up/lived in. I think it’s important for Emma’s character to actually experience what she was actually born into- not in the ‘what could of been if you stand on one leg, tilt your head, squint & make believe while standing in the ruble of what should have been your nursery’ kind of way- I want her to experience life, as it would have been for her- being princess of EF as it really is etc. & experiencing the people living as they would have under her parents rule- rather than a few survivors struggling under Cora’s rule before she turned them in zombies to attack them- Emma has only experienced EF/FTL/her heritage at its extreme worst- she needs to experience it at its best or at least ‘normal’ state too IMO .

As for modern medicine & plumbing etc. That’s easy enough to build once you know how -it’s not like there isnt plumbers, builders & trades men in SB/EF now, but that’s a whole other discussion (where they should live) 😉

[surayya]

That is assuming what you propose here would happen as a result of Z staying with Cora. Cora doesnt neccesarrily have to change her agenda because she has a nother daughter. So in order for it to work, we must assume Cora still wanted her daughter married to King Leo. Then Z would end up as Snows stepmother, like Regina did. Z would drive away Snow and Snow would meet Charming and have Emma.

Problem with this is, you cant follow the same sequence of event if you alter them so they no longer ‘fit’ within the frame work of the new reality/timeline.

….I think my brain just deflated & started leaking out my ears while I tried to find an explanation for what I’ve just said lol, so I’m going to just go ahead & hope that either what I’ve stated makes sense or that RG has already given a better explanation for it further down the thread 😉

The time-loop theory only Works if Cora treats baby Z the same way she did Regina. And Z grows up the same way as Regina and makes the same choices for a good part of the way.

…See thats the problem, Regina only became Regina because Cora gave up Zelena, if Cora kept Zelena, Cora could not become a royal herself & therefore Zelena wont have a ‘royal’ upbringing anyway.

So if Cora was left by Z’s father and that’s what caused Cora to give up baby Z, then the real moment that needs to be changed is not giving Z up, but having Cora left by Z’s

Agreed, however Regina will never exist etc. So again everything is different from there on in & since Emma never is born whats the point from a story telling stand point? Its all a AR, so at the end of the day doesnt effect those we know & love from OR- it would stand if the show was a WW show & revolved around Z finding away not to be the WW or something.

Because She was Coras first born and Coras first born was what Cora owed too Rumple and that way Z would be a problem for Cora becoming a royal- That is what Z believes I mean.

I understand thins & actually like it as an explanation, However again IF that is the case & Z changes it, everything afterwards is changed/altered to the point there is no longer a curse that happens etc. So what is the point from a story telling stand point? it doesnt drive our main characters stories forward in our actual story, nor does it change anything plot wise, so it seems like a giant waste of time to tell it if it doesnt directly effect the people we have right now & the out comes of the choices they are making right now, if that makes sense.

 

[surayya]

Where did AR version Emma come from? She came from the AR. She was never in the Old Reality(from here on I will call Old Reality OR) When Z sends the baby back in time to take her place in the Twister, Z starts a new timeline.

Oh, I understand what you are thinking now- you are merging paradoxes, using Parallel Universe, then switching to Consistent Casual loop paradox with-in the Parallel Universe paradox.

But now it gets VERY messy (so I simply cant see A&E going this route IF they do time travel)

It is within this timeline AR Emma is born.

My problem with this is Emma would NEVER have been born in the new Parallel Universe (AR), because the sequence of events that lead to her eventual birth would no longer be established, since Zelena would have altered them by switching babies.

Because OR Emma tricked Z and kept her magic, AR Emma will remember life as her OR self- Thus being able to, by magic Means, travel back in time to the day of the Twister and make the reverse baby switch.

My problem with this is you have 2 different, distinct & separate timelines/realities- ie. ‘Bob1’ from OR & ‘Bob2’ from AR are 2 Different people (who simply happen to look the same), they had different, separate & distinct experiences in their respective timelines. So Bob2 can not ‘experience’ Bob1’s life history- you can not ‘recall’ lives you have not lived yourself.

so that we can differentiate between the two timelines.

IF you have different timeline you HAVE to HAVE different Versions of the same people within those timelines- remember you cant create a “new” reality that only starts from the moment something different happens- it has to have a history of events with-in it leading up to that moment, then a future beyond that point. Ie OR MUST have Emma1, Snow1, Charming1, Snowing1, Z1, Killian/Hook1 etc. The AR MUST have Z2, Snow2, Charming2, Killian2- But it May NOT  have Snowing2, Emma2 or Henry2 nor even ‘Hook’2 because the sequence of events that lead to them being in the same place at the same time to exist no longer happens with-in the new sequence of events in the AR.

The only way for there to be 1 of someone is for that someone- we shall say Z1 (or OR Z) in this case- Z1 would have to kill Z2 & take her place with-in the timeline of the AR- HOWEVER, if making changes creates new AR, How then would Z1 {OR Z}, get into the AR, Z2 timeline?

This is why I cant see your theory working for Once as you have presented it here- Once isnt a show that deals in the physics or complex paradoxes of time-travel, so it will or should only ever stick to one paradox, so they can easily explain in a linear fashion, what is happening on screen to the hundreds of thousands of viewers WW who dont ‘do’ time travel, not to mention the casual viewers- they simply can not explain the hows & whys of whats going on on screen while using multiple paradoxes that contradict & twist around each other, on a fantasy drama & make it believable or have it make any sense, as the show isnt about explaining how the intricacies of time travel works, its about explaining fairy tale characters stories, magic & having hope/ HEAs 😉

Changing the babies makes her baby-self stay in EF. In if her plan had worked there would then never have been an OR version of Z.

Again jumping realities- a reality doesn’t just simply cease to exist because 1 small factor/persons life has been changed within it- what about the millions of other lives still being played out in the OR & AR?- those people also could have their own paradoxes being played out at the same time (again, why Once shouldnt be going down the whole weird & wonderful Time Travel rd lol). I think I need to point out here that the working theory for time travel is that there are multiple realities, all co-existing at the same time, each once different & distinct from the others due to the millions of different combinations of sequences of events that alter each individuals lives for the better or worse. Therefore every individual has their “own” set of AR timelines made up of the different choices they & others make during their life time/s, none of these time lines started with the individuals birth nor finish with their death, as the sequence of events within the ARs is being played out in the lives of those they touched, or that touched them- so all the realities stretch back to the beginning of everything & at the same time continue forward to the end of everything.

Changing the babies makes her baby-self stay in EF. In if her plan had worked there would then never have been an OR version of Z.

Haha- yep exactly, However would Rumple still be able to use the ‘curse’ to come to SB, since that curse REQUIRED Emma to break it inorder for him to then be free to find Bea?  😉

 

 

 

 

 

[surayya]

(can I call you Sur?)

Of course you can call me Sur if you like (Rayya works too, since Surayya is my cats name & I often shorten it to Rayya while talking to her lol) @Grimmsistr 😉

I will slowly read through the latest comments while I have breakfast (gotta love Easter weekend for the slow start mornings! 😉 ) & try make my holiday brain function in a useful matter for the ‘seriousness’ of paradoxical time travel talk lol 😉 Not sure I will get through it all before I leave (Surf, sand & horse beckon)- before the weather packs it in, but will come back to whats left later on 🙂

[Author]

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