[sweetgrass]

What if Rumple is her father and Cora sent her to Oz so that Rumple couldn’t collect on their agreement.   I don’t think the King cared if Cora was Snow White.  He said as much when he  told her everyone knew about her and the imp but he didn’t care about.  He cared about power, and wealth.   Cora needed to choose between love and power.

[sweetgrass]

Here is very interesting essay on the various depictions of Captain Hook and how Killian Jones  is far more similar to Barrie’s Hook than what Disney and others came up with.  It’s a great read.

http://www.onceuponafans.com/hook-a-return-to-romance

also I found this in the Disney Wikipedia: http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Captain_Hook

it is very fascinating, especially the character description because it almost sounds like OUAT Rumple in his penchant for finding loopholes in deals.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

I would think the Jolly Roger would get transported back just like everything in Gold’s shop.  These are things that. Belong in FTL.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

Ariel Belle –  It’s the only Belle relationship I currently like.

Fairy Queen

Fairy Captain

Captain Fire – I desperately need to know what happened in Neverland.

Tink and Blue.

grumpy charmings

Golden Queen Actually if I could pick one crack ship to make happen it would be this one But I settled for frenemies given their chemistry.

Charming captain

emma and her parents.

 

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

saw this graphic in tumblr but better click on the link to c the temperature gets raised a bit with this one lol http://tmblr.co/Z3NTWs11phfMG

Jaw on floor.  That was a little too NC-17.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

1) Overall grade for the season? B.

There were many things I liked/loved.  I loved Pan, Tink and Ariel.  These characters and the actors playing them were phenomenal.  I liked the Charming family moments.  Snowing seemed more liked a cute couple than in Season 2.  I liked snarky Regina, who is way better than self-pitying weepy Regina of Season 2. I liked the Regina finally showed self-awareness.  It started with Tink and reached the climax in episode 11.  I loved that Colin makes the best of even the smallest scenes because he really did not get many scenes even though they were in Neverland.  I liked most of the CS scenes, the only exception was the infamous lighter scene. Hook’s “I will win your heart” speech was amazing to me. The absolute faith and confidence Hook has in Emma is incredibly sexy.  I realize not everyone on this board agrees.  I liked the mid season finale.

 

So why a B?  I think that the Neverland arc was severely impacted by the decision to make Pan Rumple’s father.  It threw all the pacing off so that they could have a late season reveal and it also resulted in sacrificing all the classic iconic Peter Pan relationships.  Pan-Hook rivalry was essentially eliminated so that the showdown could be between Rumple and Pan.  I deeply resent that as well as the fact that we never saw Pan and Tink interact at all.  These are iconic relationships.   Until this season, I have never minded making Rumple part of other fairy tales, but here he distracted from the original fairy tale.  He did not enhance the Tale.

I wanted Neverbacks.  I wanted to see how the iconic Peter Pan characters got along in Neverland during Hook’s stay there.  It a travesty because Robbie Kay, Colin and Rose really breathe life into their characters and have amazing chemistry on screen.  I have no idea what the relationship between Hook and Tink was.  I am not sure if they are friends, for enemies, friends with benefits, reluctant allies, or something else?   Secondarily, I wanted to see Hook and Bae Neverbacks.  The Pied Piper flashback added absolutely nothing to the story or OUAT mythos, but a flashback to Hook and Bae post Bae leaving the Jolly Roger would help flesh put both Bae/Neal and Hook.

I think that Neverland arc began to wear on people because A&E refused to take advantage of what truly made Peter Pan Classic fairytale unique instead we got a meandering quest that went nowhere, just so that they could give us the “Pan is my father” reveal near the end of the arc and we were robbed of the sword fight confrontation between Pan and Hook, who are supposed to be both master swordsmen.  The midseason finale did not make up for the missed opportunities.  Frankly, pan didn’t need to be Rumple’s father to have Rumple redeem himself.

2) Top two favorite episodes –  last episode and the episode introducing Tink.  I really liked Tink and I liked her unlikely friendship with Regina.  The Neverland parts of Lost Girl were very good but I didn’t yet another flashback of Regina trying to exact revenge on Snowing.  To be honest I wish the show would stop with the Regina Snow flashbacks and  instead used that screen time on the present Snowing Charming family relationships.

3) Least two favorite episode –  Nasty Habits  (yawn) and  (edited to change my selection and fix typos) Think Lovely Thoughts.  Hated the whole Pan is Rumple’s father thing.  It also reduces the greatness of Pan who went from being this incredibly all powerful deliciously creepy kid into a sad pathetic creepy in a highly inappropriate way loser of a middle aged man.

I am all typed out so I finish this later.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

I haven’t read anyone else’s response yet.  For me the answer is absolutely NOT!   Rumple is fully responsible for the state of his relationship with Bae.  Neal s distrusts Rumple for good reason.  It is only in his final act that Rumple has gained back some of ttrust he wasted between him and his son.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

sweetgrass wrote: I don’t insult RumBelle fans by saying their ship only exists to placate a small section of the fandom and that is why Belle is not integrate well into the cast because she was never meant to be a part of it.

I never knew that… but did always wonder why she just seems ‘there.’ I thought because the actress was popular they were trying to make a place for her..

To be clear I don’t know if this what the writers are thinking but if SF fans are going to claim that CS is a fan service, I can do that as well with Rumbelle based on what we’ve seen onscreen and knowing that Belle was originally hired for a small stint.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

From vickyvicarious –

Hook/Henry parallels Because they’re Emma’s two True Loves. The only people Emma has left behind. The only people who come back and find her. Showing up at the door of her apartment. Always believing in Emma’s superpower/lie-detector. Always believing in Emma, period – even when no one else does. Choosing Emma despite the consequences/fighting for her love (S1/S3). Making Emma smile more than any other people. TLK kiss/attempt. Wanting to be a hero (and having everything go wrong when Pan gets involved).

 

I love this.  This is so true.

Hook will do anything for love.  If I were Emma I would totally go for Hook.  He is completely there and would never leave her behind.  The squid ink cell doesn’t count as they were not in a relationship and Emma had betrayed Hook.  When Emma left Hook at the beanstalk, it wasn’t just the giant she left him at the mercy of, but Cora as well.   Hook did risk his life by stealing the cuffs and joining Team Princess.  Cora only let him live for the same reason Rumple let him live after killing Milah — so that he would suffer.   To me, Hook leaving them in the cell is a wash.  They both were placed at the mercy of Cora.

I completely agree about the fanservice argument.  I hate it and it makes no sense.  How does anyone know what A&E had planned?  The SF fans are so emphatic on this point but what makes them so sure.   I also find that argument ironic because by their argument, RumBelle is a fan service.  Belle was only meant to be in that one episode, but Skin Deep was successful that the writers change their mind.  Given how many SFers are ardent RumBelle fans, I don’t understand why they have an issue with writers changing their original plans (assuming that is the case for CS) when the writers are inspired by how things play out on onscreen.   These are happy accidents in life and no one should be expected to continue down one path if they find a better more interesting path.  They may not like the path (just as I don’t like RumBelle but it’s not my show and don’t assume I know what is in the writers minds).  I don’t insult RumBelle fans by saying their ship only exists to placate a small section of the fandom and that is why Belle is not integrate well into the cast because she was never meant to be a part of it.

I want the “triangle” to be over no later than the end of the season.  The shipping wars have proved divisive and have made this forum less enjoyable to me.  The episode threads are suffering.  So you can’t get a great discussion because everyone is holed up in their shipper thread.  Not that I blame anyone for doing so because when I go to the CSF and SF thread, I start to get annoyed at how Hok is being unfairly painted in the worst possible light. What this does it makes me not want to like Neal and to a lesser extent Rumple.

In the last few episodes, I’ve come to like Neal and root for his happy ending.  Before I was indifferent to him.  I don’t think Neal was out of line for in how he asked Emma on a date or in telling her he would fight for her.  He was letting Emma know what his intentions were and I don’t see him as forcing himself on Emma. By the same token, I don’t think Hook was out of line in  what he told Neal when he was backing off or in letting Emma now that she will need to make a choice or in flirting with Emma (I don’t think he expected a kiss; it happened at Emma’s initiative).  Hook was letting Neal and Emma know his intentions.  He’s not controlling how Neal and Emma react, nor was he forcing her to make a decision NOW.

I just don’t see Neal and Emma have a happy ending together.  They are too alike in the wrong ways.  They are both too closed off and too serious with each other.   There is too much pain in their relationship to work through.  Their time in the sun is over.  Their relationship would be full of angst and not fun (for them or for me to watch).  Why would anyone chose a joyless, painful relationship that has been over for 11 years, when a new potentially fun filled with someone who completely believes in you and would never abandon you is on your doorstep?  Hook brings out the warm side of Emma; he makes her feel and he gives her confidence in herself by always being there and always believing in her.  That is what she needs and to be honest that is what Neal needs.  He needs someone who is going to  bring light, joy and fun into his life and who will put him first and always believes in him.  After being abandoned by his mom, father and fiance, Neal needs that.  Neal needs his own female Hook.  Neal and Emma’s history is too painful for her to fully let her guard down.  The trust is broken.  Neal will have to spend lots of time making it  up to Emma (assuming he can, which for me the answer is no — like I once said a personal betrayal in what I thought was a loving relationship built on trust, would irreparably damage that relationship, but I know their are women that go bad to their cheating spouses).  Emma will need to get over his lack of belief in her and their love.  That would suck the fun and joy out of the relationship.  They both deserve the fun happy moments, but given their history it’s going to be with other folks.

 

 

 

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

I don’t quite get some of the other ships… Sometimes think that that are more Anti Hook then pro whatever their ship is.

 

completely agree.  One argument that troubles me is that Hook should give up his chance at true love to show character development.  Hook already came back to save the town even though it put him at risk and almost everyone treated Hook with disdain. Emma did reach out to Hook but she wasn’t overly friendly.  He let Rumple on his ship  — the same ship that Rumple killed Milah on and mutilated Hook.  He  helped save Charming without expectation of any reward.  He even questioned Charming sing his praises.  He is willing to move on from vengeance and his old love.  He didn’t rejoice over the deaths of Rumple and Pan — both of whom have tormented hook.  He looked sad and compassionately for the suffering of Rumple’s surviving loved ones.  That is character development.

Hook likes Emma.  They have chemistry, a connection, an understanding and a physical attraction, so why shouldn’t Hook pursue Emma?  SF folks seem to think that Hook should bow out completely and that Hook should sail away or have a diminishing storyline.  Just because Neal had sex with Emma 11 years ago does not mean he has perpetual first dibs on her.  That smacks of treating women as chattel.  I don’t like it.  That relationship was over.  Both Emma and Neal had sex with other people and Neal was engaged to someone else less than 10days ago.  Why should Hook step aside from pursuing a relationship with Emma, a single woman for a man that was engaged to another woman?  Neal’s actions do not like true love And it’s unfair to both hook and Emma to expect that Neal’s current feelings should trump everything else.  Neal soundly rejected Hook as a step father.  Hook laid it all on the line for Bae but Bae wasn’t interested.  Bae/Neal can’t expect to reject abandoned folks, like Hook and Emma and then expect those folks to drop everything to suit his current needs/desires.  Hook gave Neal fair warning about his intentions for Emma.  He is letting Emma know he willing to fight for her.  I am sure if Emma told him she chose Bae or someone else he would stop pursuing her.

For me, I don’t understand why Emma would chose an angsty relationship full of pain and sorrow over a new fun, joyful relationship with a man that believes in her and would stand by her no matter what.

i do agree that  Hook needs to do more than pine for Emma and want to see him kick butt.  He is a great character on his own and has good chemistry with other characters.  I would like to see his other relationships explored and I would like to see him have a hobby.  I didn’t know this, but in canon Peter Pan, Hook was a musician.  I would like to see that.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

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