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"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
IM SO HAPPY!! ONLY THING I CAN SEE BECAUSE I”M FREAKING OUT ABOUT HOW EPIC THIS EPISODE WILL BE!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Ok….just need to add a few things to set the record straight on the Queen’s behalf… 1. Regina was in fact…the purest woman ever on the show aside from Belle…(and don’t bring up Snow because she was a snooty thing when she was young). When I look at the fact of…entrusting a secret that you begged and pleaded with a 10 year old girl to keep, and we all knew what a secret was. And when you specify to not tell your mother, and the girl goes behind your back and does it anyway….uhhh….yeah…I’d be pretty (beep) off about that. Snow obviously knew what a secret was because she kept Miss Blue Fairy’s, and she’s not as naïve as we thought she was because she was all of a sudden wise enough to not use the dark candle on Eva.
There’s no proof that Regina was the purest woman there. Also, There is no proof at all that Snow was out to get anyone. The way that it was portrayed was that Snow was talked out of it by an adult. Yes, she knew what a secret was, but she was 10, as you said. She thought it’d be for the best because she believed in true love and the goodness of people. This transformation was even shown after her mother’s death. She was obviously not the same brat that had snapped at her maid. That was the whole point of introducing that flashback. So, no. As far as the show says, 10 year old Snow was not trying to “get” anyone. Also, she didn’t want to sacrifice someone’s life even to save her mother. That’s not being wise, that’s being kind.
So Snow knew right from wrong, and I still say…a part of Snow White wanted to tell that secret to get Regina. Hence shown in The Stable Boy when she was cursed Mary Margret, and was being interrogated…she said and I quote: “Yes I wanted her gone…she was the only thing that was keeping us apart, so yeah I wanted her gone! Is that what you wanna hear?” No matter how you twist it…that was the very small 15 percent of Snow White that felt the same way about Daniel, but that may not have been where she was mostly coming from when she told Cora the secret. But a small part of her…really didn’t care too much about keeping that secret.
Nothing says anything about Daniel. That’s an assumption that can’t be backed up. When she spoke, she spoke of her own guilt for wanting a man who was “taken” (Charming/David). It had nothing to do with Daniel. So, no matter how you twist it, Daniel was not on cursed Mary Margaret’s mind, because Mary Margaret is not Snow. That’s the point of the curse. So, that evidence can be dismissed. It’s pure speculation that is not supported by the history plaintiff. Nor is it supported by the details of the crime.
2. As far as the Rumpelstilskin situation goes…he’s been pining after Regina before she was even conceived. He had plans to make his monster for 300 years. After all is said and done…he convinces Regina to send Cora away. Had Rumple not stopped Regina on that road…she would have LEFT! HE convinced her to stay by using her newfound love for magic, and asked her to let him teach her magic. Though he said it was entirely up to her if she became like Cora…he didn’t give her a choice because he stole what could have been her Second chance with Daniel had he not hired Jefferson and Whale to break her even further down. Thus he got his “monster”.
I agree. with this partially. I love Rumpel, but he did some pretty crappy things. However, Regina has her own mind. SHE made the decision to stay. Frankenstein’s failed experiment shows that there is no way to bring back the dead fully. This was stated multiple times as a law. Not even the good doctor could do it. Daniel would have been an experiment either way. A new guinea pig with only a chance of being revived to the fullest. You can’t say that because Regina’s dead lover stayed there’s any sufficient justification for the defendant’s actions. Rumpel tempted Regina, yes, but she chose the life that she did. There are plenty of characters on this show who lost their loves and/or lived lives that were just as crappy. However, they didn’t do what she did. With that reasoning, the only person to be blamed is Peter Pan, because he was the root of Rumpel’s evil, which is the root of Regina’s evil, which is the root of Snow’s vengeance against Regina (killing Cora). You can’t say that anyone made any one do anything, without skipping straight back to him. Which would remove the entire purpose for this trial, and entertain the idea that human beings do not possess free will or reponsibility. Rumpel didn’t make Regina murder who knows how many children by giving them to the blind witch. Rumpel didn’t make Regina hate Snow, and kill her father, and townspeople. Rumpel didn’t make Regina commit mass murder. Rumpel doesn’t make anyone do anything. That’s the point behind everything he does. It has been more than twice that he has presented a deal with clear expectations of payment, and consequence. He has also never forced one to sign on the dotted line. He doesn’t tell people what to do. He lets them go as far as they will to get what he has offered. He’s a travelling salesman. “Can you handle the consequences?” “You’ll owe me something precious.” All of this he says to Cinderella. Do we then say that Rumpel made Cinderella bet her first born? No. That would be as ridiculous as saying that a salesman made you buy that television. “Objection! This trial is not about Rumpelstiltskin.” “Sustained” Fine. If Regina pursued her dark heart, that is no one’s fault but hers. Even after seeing the things that Rumpel went through in childhood, and beyond I still say that it is his choice, because it was. You say that a 10 year old knew right from wrong? So did 18 year old Regina. The only difference is that Snow didn’t know that her choice would end up killing someone. Regina can’t be excused in that department.
But Snow killed Eva Cora out of vengeance…period point blank. She used Cora’s threat as an excuse to have a justifiable reason in killing her, because had it been really justifiable…Snow wouldn’t have that black spot on her heart. So yeah…she killed Cora out of vengeance. And God pray….Zelena never learns that she did that, because she seems like the type of girl with an eye for an eye(#SaveSnowingBaby) That sums up my defense of the Queen….
Again, I partially agree. Snow killed Cora. She killed her out of anger instead of necessity. But, her intent is the only thing out of place. Either way, Snow had no out. If she crushed Cora’s heart, Rumpel would have died and Snow would have been responsible for the deaths of two people. Without “guard dog” Rumpel, Regina would have been free to slaughter them all like cattle. “Your honor! Objection!” Withdrawn. Ahem. There is no guarantee that Regina would not have brought bodily harm upon the plaintiff. Further If she had given Cora the heart, there was no guarantee that this would have saved them. The only knowledge Snow had of Cora was as the woman who killed her mother. Why would she risk the lives of her family on a guess? Cora had a history of violence and disregard for human life even before she gave her heart. Knowing that she was no longer pretending to love Regina, hardly negates the fact that we have no idea how she’d react to the others. Regina fell in line when her mother told her to. If Cora insisted on killing them anyway and going on to living a happy life with Henry, that could be it. So, there wasn’t a choice for Snow. Either they died or the didn’t. Snow’s personal reasons for killing Cora caused the dark spot, but that didn’t make Cora’s death in that exact fashion unnecessary. If you can find a solution to the dillemma that would have resulted in Cora not dying the way that she did, but also leaving the main characters (Charmings) most definitely breathing, I’ll hear it. With that, Your honor, I draw my argument to a close.
As delightful as this argument is…I believe we’re nearing a close on it as we need to get back to the Sneak Peeks at hand. I’m going to make one more comment on this, and leave it be because THE PAST IS IN THE PAST.
1. Regina was in fact the purest woman on this show compared to others that have been presented…the only woman who is either equal or above Young Regina’s purity is Belle. The reason I say this is because even though Cora was a dark, cruel, woman who smothered her daughter, and no doubt tried to get her involved with magic….Regina remained pure and honest, and away from magic as possible!
The moment Daniel died…Regina’s heart was broken. It began to darken once she learned of Snow’s betrayal(though out of a “Good” heart…still resulted in the death of Regina’s true love. So Snow is still at fault with Daniel, probably not a huge percentage such as Cora, but Snow White loaded the gun for Cora to pull the trigger.
“Dead Is Dead”…okay! Rumple knew exactly how to bring back Daniel aka (it was in his secret room at his castle), and he convinced Regina there was no way. Then hired Jefferson and Whale to deceive Regina in order to break her further into creating HIS Monster!
And to make a long story short…Rumple’s dark influence rubbed off on Regina. He instigated her hatred for Snow, making it grow further and further in order for her to be dark. The point is…Rumple is partially responsible for everyone Regina has ever killed death because he’s the one who morphed her into the monster he became.
As for the Hansel and Gretel….The Kids had a choice! Regina may have been the Evil Queen but she always had a soft spot for kids…she just offered them an offer they could never refuse! But the kids, like young Snow, had a CHOICE! To say no! There is no proof on the show that Regina would knowingly kill kids….she warned every child the chances of them not coming out, they accepted of their own free will! Even when H and G insulted Regina after giving her the apple, after she made them the promise of anything they desired…she still released their father to go find them on his own.
And as far as Cora goes…the moment her heart was back in her body…she was pure again! Well not pure but pure enough to not kill anyone as she realized that Regina was more important than anything! Therefore Cora would have no longer posed a threat as she would have no longer cared. Snow White could have given Regina an uncursed heart, and still be alright. And might I add…Rumple talked Snow into cursing Cora’s heart to save his life.
That sums up everything…back to PRESS RELEASE.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I’m fairly certain Zelena survives Season 3, and will probably be imprisoned by Regina in SB somewhere…then in S4, Regina will need her sister’s help with something. Common enemy unites enemies
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I think Cora never abandoned Zelena. If she lost her first born, that would explain her iron grip on her second born! And could spark that darkness if she not only lost her True Love, but also her child…
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Tinkerbelle: HE”S YOUR SOULMATE…GO GET HIM
AS LONG AS YOU”RE MINE
HOPE YOU FOUND IT NOW
COME AROUND TO ME
IN A HOPELESS PLACE
COME AND GET IT
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Love Is An Open Door!!! Life Can Be So Much More!
WITH YOU! WITH YOU! LOVE IS AN OPEN DOOR!
BLUE: A COLOR OF TRUST, LOVE, and UNDERSTANDING
AU: Regina’s first curse brings along Robin Hood…and she finds herself drawn to the Town Troublemaker 😛
OUTLAW QUEEN: I’m Gonna Get You (Humor Version)
OUTLAW QUEEN: GIVE ME LOVE
Loving The Love
JUST BRING OUT THE WHISKEY ALREADY
BOLD AND AUDACIOUS-STUNNING IN EVERY WAY
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Just because things are in the past doesn’t mean that there doesn’t need to be some sort of mea culpa from the 3 “villains” Regina may have been manipulated by forces like Rumple but that doesn’t change the fact that she made choices. She chose to turn around, go back to Leo’s palace, marry him, and learn magic. And when she was offered a way out (perhaps not a great one, but one) she ran. And then she chose to pursue darkness and did do horrible things. She did them. Past is in the past is great and all but until you lay your sins bear and ask for forgiveness there is no growth. Rumple sacrificed his life to save Bae and Belle but he still owes one heck of an apology to Emma and Snowing.
And if you’re going with the whole “past is in the past” motto then that means that Snow doesn’t owe Regina anything either. It means that Snow shouldn’t apologize for telling a secret or for her part in Cora’s death. Can’t have it both ways. Either everyone apologizes and tries to move past the hurt or no one apologizes and it’s stagnant.AMEN!!!! Very well stated RG. Don’t forget Regina destroy several families Hansel and Gretel, others whose family was split up.
Ok….just need to add a few things to set the record straight on the Queen’s behalf…
1. Regina was in fact…the purest woman ever on the show aside from Belle…(and don’t bring up Snow because she was a snooty thing when she was young). When I look at the fact of…entrusting a secret that you begged and pleaded with a 10 year old girl to keep, and we all knew what a secret was. And when you specify to not tell your mother, and the girl goes behind your back and does it anyway….uhhh….yeah…I’d be pretty (beep) off about that.
Snow obviously knew what a secret was because she kept Miss Blue Fairy’s, and she’s not as naïve as we thought she was because she was all of a sudden wise enough to not use the dark candle on Eva. So Snow knew right from wrong, and I still say…a part of Snow White wanted to tell that secret to get Regina. Hence shown in The Stable Boy when she was cursed Mary Margret, and was being interrogated…she said and I quote: “Yes I wanted her gone…she was the only thing that was keeping us apart, so yeah I wanted her gone! Is that what you wanna hear?”
No matter how you twist it…that was the very small 15 percent of Snow White that felt the same way about Daniel, but that may not have been where she was mostly coming from when she told Cora the secret. But a small part of her…really didn’t care too much about keeping that secret.
2. As far as the Rumpelstilskin situation goes…he’s been pining after Regina before she was even conceived. He had plans to make his monster for 300 years. After all is said and done…he convinces Regina to send Cora away. Had Rumple not stopped Regina on that road…she would have LEFT! HE convinced her to stay by using her newfound love for magic, and asked her to let him teach her magic. Though he said it was entirely up to her if she became like Cora…he didn’t give her a choice because he stole what could have been her Second chance with Daniel had he not hired Jefferson and Whale to break her even further down. Thus he got his “monster”.
And must I bring up the Robin Hood situation…he fed her constantly that she was trapped to be dark because the darkness had already tasted her, So by the time the time comes for Regina to meet Robin…she’s too scared and blinded by his dark influence to let go of her hatred(that Rumple instigated) for Snow White.
As for Zelena….I do so believe that she was the one who was supposed to cast his curse. But I can’t necessarily blame Rumple for that part because he never knew Cora already had her first born, and we can all agree Zelena was a bit crazy. But I wonder why Rumple never told Regina she had a psychotic sister…could have warned the Queen at least 😛 .
3. The Cora and Snow situation. Yes…Cora killed Eva, and it’s not entirely justifiable as of yet. It may not be…we don’t know. All we can go on is that Eva was a snooty brat when she was younger…and tripped Cora(kind of cruel). We’ll have to watch Bleeding Through to learn more of these two enemies story.
But Snow killed Eva Cora out of vengeance…period point blank. She used Cora’s threat as an excuse to have a justifiable reason in killing her, because had it been really justifiable…Snow wouldn’t have that black spot on her heart. So yeah…she killed Cora out of vengeance. And God pray….Zelena never learns that she did that, because she seems like the type of girl with an eye for an eye(#SaveSnowingBaby)
That sums up my defense of the Queen….
Keep Calm And Ship OUTLAW QUEEN
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Okay…I’m sorry you guys. I can’t like this. I’m sorry. I should like this scene, but I don’t…I can’t even begin to stop rolling my eyes. I enjoy all of the bonding and crap, but I’m tired of self-depreciating Snow. I have never liked her as a character, but even I can see that she has never deserved the emotional beating she gives herself for Regina. I’d be fine if it felt more like a character trait of hers, but it doesn’t. It’s gotten to the point where I feel like the show is telling us that Regina does deserve Snows niceness more than Snow deserves Regina’s. There have even been consequences for Snow every time she doesn’t gut herself for Regina’s favor. How many times past and future has Snow’s lack of forgiveness made Regina cry, and feel under appreciated, and go back to being bad (even for a couple eps)? Too freaking many. How many times have they shown that Regina is completely “justified” in not caring about ruining Snow’s life through her actions or otherwise? Too freaking many. I mean, even when Snow kills an obviously evil Cora to save her family, because it hurt Regina Snow must apologize, when for some time now, the murder of her father has been pushed under the rug? As if someone murdering your only remaining parent shortly after you witness your mother’s death, you are supposed to break your back t rehabilitate that person? At this point, if Regina slapped Snow in the face, and hurt her hand while doing it, Snow would apologize for her face being too hard. It gets me even more because Snow was a kid to Regina, yet she’s still being treated like everything this woman did is her fault. I’m not saying that Snow should shun Regina. I just think it’d be better if she treated Regina the way she treats Rumpel. It’s the “I accept you, and try to stand by you because you are my family, but you are a bastard, and It’ll take me a minute to like you like that” kind of treatment. It’s realistic, and human for goodness sake. Or at the very least, just once, I would like her to not take it upon herself to apologize for Regina’s situation. She’s been doing it for the entire show. I’m tired of seeing it, and frankly, this conversation being based on her apology again completely ruins any happiness I would have had at Regina having character growth. But you know what? Now it doesn’t even feel like Regina’s getting character growth. It just felt like Regina was once again content in having Snow admit that she was “wrong”. It’s the same game over and over again. Town likes me, I’m fine. Town doesn’t like me, I’m going to kill them with my mother. Why do you think they were able to play that fake out of her becoming evil again when everyone thought she’d cast curse no. 2? Because she’s already done it enough to make a fake out! This is the same thing I felt about Rumpel not growing because Belle was being his conscience too much. So now, I’m putting this onto Regina, as well. I will not consider Regina redeemed or developed in any way in regards to Snow until she decides to take responsibility and maintain her goodness even when Snow and everyone else in the galaxy is saying “I’m not sorry, and I shouldn’t be”. Sorry guys. I had to rant. This was three seasons of rant sitting on my chest. Sorry.
All I have to say… Regina is Snow White’s Step Mother in the end…whether they like it or not…which I think they’re liking it!
And RG and HE…as far as the Cora death and Daniel death thing goes…I think Regina and Snow really let out there frustration in that blowout in NL(which Regina won) and that’s why we can say the Past is in the Past….Snow and Regina would be there all day if Regina went down saying how she was sorry about everything…
Sometimes…it’s best to let it go. Both have done their wrong toward the other, and cannot take back…so just move forward which is what they’re doing. 🙂
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
