Double Crossing?

[hjbau]

I don’t know. I feel like if Rumpel’s only goal was to beat the queen he would just kill her. I think there has to be more to it then that.

[sam993]

I think Mr. Gold is double crossing both of them, which is essentially what everyone is saying. That he is working for himself. This is going to be a stretch, but I think that Mr. Gold agreed with Regina to get Emma out of the job. As in, Regina planted the evidence not to make MM’s life miserable and arrest her (but that must have been one of the perks), but to make Emma look bad. Mr. Gold planted the key so that MM will leave and not come back, which would get Emma fired. Like he said in the beginning of the show, if she didn’t find MM, then she can kiss her badge goodbye.

I also think that Mr. Gold will in the end, make both Regina and Emma happy. He will prove MM’s innocence and get Emma fired.

[celesstarr]

I definitely don’t see Rumple on Regina’s side either…right now, I think he’s siding with Emma because he knows Emma is the saviour and in this currently cursed town, Emma may have more
power than Regina if only she believed and knew how to use it. (It reminds me of Yeats in “the second coming”…[The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity])

He doesn’t know yet about Belle, so I wonder if he finds her and accepts her love, if that will transform him and then we can be a little more sure of which side he is “mostly” on.

@belleoftheball wrote:

And we have no idea it wasn’t Rumples idea for the hatter to find the escaped MM. He could have tipped him off and we don’t know it yet.

And Belleofthe ball…You brought a very interesting question…Really who told the Mad Hatter that
Emma was the saviour? I mean, I know he has knowledge of his FTL self..but only Mr. Gold and Henry really know who Emma is. Did Mr. Gold orchestrate this whole mad hatter encounter to get hold of this magical hat? Who got the magical hat in the end anyway?

@hjbau wrote:

I don’t know. I feel like if Rumpel’s only goal was to beat the queen he would just kill her. I think there has to be more to it then that.

I don’t think that rumple would directly kill someone at this point. He seems very keen on the “eye for an eye” idea, and the “price of magic” thing. If he chose to kill with magic without making a deal
there might be a price to pay for that as well. 😆

[killianhookfan]

Something I have thought about – does it really matter what the outcome of any “trial” is in SB?? I’m guessing there is only one jail in SB – the one in the Sherriff’s office right? And usually if you are suspected of murder you are not going to be tried in a local court like the one in SB. So what, really, is going on with MM’s “trial” or arraignment or whatever?? She can’t leave SB to go to trial anywhere else. I’m guessing that neither Gold nor Regina would want lawyers and investigators from outside SB coming to SB to investigate the crime. So I’m actually wondering if Gold and Regina were somehow working together to try to contain the crime to SB and actually have the whole thing post-poned. I think Gold wants something to happen BEFORE anything would go any farther with the trial and he was just giving Regina what she wanted as his way of helping make sure nothing about the situation leaked out of SB.

[hjbau]

Well i meant before the Dark Curse. If Rumpel’s goal was to kill Regina then he should have just killed her. But even now he could kill her non magically. That works just as good. Dead would still be dead. It just seems like Rumpel is less likely to play with people before he kills them then the queen is. The queen seems to like to ruin people first. Destroy their lives.

I think that there will be a trial of some sort, but it does beg the question of where would Mary be in jail if she was convicted. She would be sent to some sort of state facility in real life. She is going to get off.

[killianhookfan]

Totally agree, hjbau. No way is Rumple/Gold’s ultimate goal only to beat EQ/Regina. If that was the case – what’s been stopping him from taking a Moe French moment with his cane on her? He definately has his own agenda. And I also agree that Regina is extremely vindictive – death isn’t her agenda for people, misery and control is. When she can’t find a way to keep them controlled and miserable anymore that’s when she decides to kill someone.

I do wonder whether Regina and Gold know about Jefferson. It’s another one of those moments that keeps making me go back and forth on who I think August might be. If August is Bae and he is adding pages to the book to help Emma believe, it could be that Gold knows that August is Bae and knows that he is in town and the two of them are working together to get Emma to believe. So it’s possible August added the pages about Jefferson which would mean that Gold knows that Jefferson has been in town – but potentially Regina does not. And since it seems that August just recently showed up in town, it could be that August has knowledge of Jefferson and Regina’s relationship because he knows how to travel from one reality to the next. So potentially Gold pretended to be working with Regina in order to give Emma time with Jefferson so she could gain more knowledge that would make her start to believe.

[Phee]

@DanielJLewis wrote:

Also keep in mind that Mr. Gold placed the key in Mary Margaret’s prison cell before Emma had come to him and told him that she approved of his results.

Good point. So the timeline had to go:
Making a deal with Regina
Planting the key (which must have happened during Mary’s interrogation, coz it was the only time the cell was vacant)
Offering to be Mary’s lawyer
Emma telling Gold she’ll do whatever it takes (and more)
Which suggests he was dealing with Regina first. Though if he was already planning to offer his legal services, then the timing probably doesn’t really matter, because he’d figured out what he needed from everyone involved already, and even if Emma hadn’t have come to him when she did, he still would have helped her and Mary out anyway. It’s just that now, Emma is aware they’re working together, and probably feels like they’ll be equal partners in the scheme, (sorry luv, not so much).

@rumplegoldfan wrote:

So I’m actually wondering if Gold and Regina were somehow working together to try to contain the crime to SB and actually have the whole thing post-poned. I think Gold wants something to happen BEFORE anything would go any farther with the trial and he was just giving Regina what she wanted as his way of helping make sure nothing about the situation leaked out of SB.

For sure they wouldn’t want it to get to the stage where involvement from people outside Storybrooke would be required. Would that even be possible? Suddenly some town that isn’t even on the map has someone who needs to go to trial for murder? So yeah, they’d need it contained, and I imagine that’d be motivation enough for Gold to work with Regina. Planting the key and having Mary make a run for it and disappear would certainly put a halt to the trial proceedings.

And also, this….
@Sam993 wrote:

This is going to be a stretch, but I think that Mr. Gold agreed with Regina to get Emma out of the job. As in, Regina planted the evidence not to make MM’s life miserable and arrest her (but that must have been one of the perks), but to make Emma look bad. Mr. Gold planted the key so that MM will leave and not come back, which would get Emma fired. Like he said in the beginning of the show, if she didn’t find MM, then she can kiss her badge goodbye.

…would be a classic case of “two birds, one stone” as far as Regina was concerned, so I can totally see her planning it that way, though I think Gold wants Emma to keep her job. So I can totally see that Gold’s words to Emma about “find her or it’s your badge” would have ensured that she got out there and found her and brought her back in time. Then Regina gets all irritated about how the plan didn’t work (which is a WIN for Gold coz he likes to watch her squirm), but he can shrug and say, “Well I played my part, but it’s not like I can actually control their actions, so it’s not my fault she came back.”

Oh that Mr Gold, he’s such a tricky lil devil, isn’t he. 😉

[Phee]

@celesstarr wrote:

@belleoftheball wrote:

And we have no idea it wasn’t Rumples idea for the hatter to find the escaped MM. He could have tipped him off and we don’t know it yet.

And Belleofthe ball…You brought a very interesting question…Really who told the Mad Hatter that
Emma was the saviour? I mean, I know he has knowledge of his FTL self..but only Mr. Gold and Henry really know who Emma is. Did Mr. Gold orchestrate this whole mad hatter encounter to get hold of this magical hat? Who got the magical hat in the end anyway?

Emma has the hat, she tossed it in her car.

I’m gonna hafta go back and re-watch to see if Jefferson actually said anything about her saving everyone. If he did, then that begs the question of how he knew there was meant to be someone coming to save them, because not many people knew about that prophecy. But I think perhaps he just told her that she has magic, and he knows this because the clock started ticking and stuff started happening when she arrived. He may not know her actual destiny, he may just think, “OMG someone new in town and she can make magic happen! She could help me escape.”

@celesstarr wrote:

@hjbau wrote:

I don’t know. I feel like if Rumpel’s only goal was to beat the queen he would just kill her. I think there has to be more to it then that.

I don’t think that rumple would directly kill someone at this point. He seems very keen on the “eye for an eye” idea, and the “price of magic” thing. If he chose to kill with magic without making a deal
there might be a price to pay for that as well.

Killing her is far too simplistic and not at all satisfying. If he wanted to do that, he’d have offed her years ago back in FTL. What he wants is to destroy her. Strip her of her power, humiliate her, crush her ego. That’s how he’s planning to beat her IMO.

[Snickerdoodle]

@Phee wrote:

I’m gonna hafta go back and re-watch to see if Jefferson actually said anything about her saving everyone. If he did, then that begs the question of how he knew there was meant to be someone coming to save them, because not many people knew about that prophecy. But I think perhaps he just told her that she has magic, and he knows this because the clock started ticking and stuff started happening when she arrived. He may not know her actual destiny, he may just think, “OMG someone new in town and she can make magic happen! She could help me escape.”

Yes, yes, Jefferson saw through the telescopes, no one told him. I’m still wondering if he was actually stuck in that house until Emma came. That alone would have let him know she was magic — clock moves, doors can open…

Also can’t buy into Regina doesn’t know he’s there. I think she knows every character that is in SB. I don’t however think she keeps up with them all on a daily basis, and so if Jefferson, was locked in that house for 28 years, I imagine she had no idea he could even leave. I will have to look at that scene again where he talks about being there 28 years. If I were Regina, and I knew he knew the truth, I probably would have locked him up to keep him from upsetting the limbo of power and control I had. 28 years of stasis — what a false perception of control. Who would enjoy everything being the same day after day and thinking I’m victorious. That just sounds so boring. 🙄

[Snickerdoodle]

Also Sam993
you should put your MM innocence and Emma fired on the “OK, I’m Calling it…” thread 😀

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