Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[torrie]

I just don’t understand why you guys still watch the show if you hate it so much. I’ve never seen so much negativity in a forum about a show that we all still watch. I personally still think they can turn things around and get back to telling the stories properly, mainly because they have always said that they have an end game. So once they stop stalling with story lines they clearly were never planned in advance, I think the final half season or season or whatever could be really great. But for those of you who feel like Neal’s death killed the show and it’s past the point of fixing it, I don’t get why you still watch it. Despite it’s huge flaws, especially in this last half season, I still enjoy it, so I’m still here. Are you guys just determined to finish it out because you’ve invested all this time already?

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For me, the only reason I still watch it is because one of my best friends still loves the show, so I watch it with her as a reason to spend extra time together. If the show is still continuing after she graduates (which is doubtful…she’s a college junior), I’m not going to watch anymore.  I agree that it’s sad to see a thread that was once so positive and full of hope this dismal though :/

[RumplesGirl]

I just don’t understand why you guys still watch the show if you hate it so much. I’ve never seen so much negativity in a forum about a show that we all still watch

I despise questions/arguments like this. I have had to rationalize and explain it so many times that I think my words are becoming nonsensical. We watch because we’re allowed to; it is as simple as that. Because I was so invested in this show that I volunteered to run a forum site and co-host a podcast about it. Because critical analysis of media isn’t just praising a show and saying how great it is; it’s dissecting the piece of media and reflecting on how it holds up a mirror to culture.  It’s because I can use OUAT and their increasingly disturbing misogynistic, racist, homophobic, ageist, classist, narrative to point out the flaws in our society and how women are treated, how men are treated, how minorities are treated, ect. Enjoying a show doesn’t mean you get to ignore all the flaws and messages/morals.

I watch because I’m allowed to. I analyze it because I’m allowed to. I point out the flaws because I’m allowed to. You do not need a positive reason to watch a TV show or to reflect on media.

I also really resent the implication that we’re “haters.” We’re not. We’re disappointed. We’re allowed to be.

You’ve never seen so much negativity? Please. We’re one of the most level headed forum sites for this show, largely because of the rules Daniel put into place and that I and Matt enforce with an iron fist. This site does have a pro-SF bent, but that’s just because everywhere else was so anti-SF that this place felt like a refugee camp. We don’t allow ship wars; we don’t allow name calling; we don’t allow anything lewd or crude. We don’t allow actual fighting. I have been on forum sites that do that–sites that have a free for all with flame wars and actual honest to god boldface capital letter screaming matches. Also, how much time do you spend in the OUAT fandom? Cause it’s nothing but negativity. A veritable cesspool of stupid. Everyone is fighting with each other out there in the wilds of Tumblr and Twiter. Matt and I manage to keep it mostly locked out there and not bring it in here.

I really and truly resent the implication that because we’re disillusioned, disappointed or even angry with the show, we’re not allowed to watch or discuss or analyze. Not how critical analysis works or how the human mind should ever work.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[RumplesGirl]

I agree that it’s sad to see a thread that was once so positive and full of hope this dismal though :/

This thread is plenty positive. We talk about what we want to talk about. We analyze the show, we analyze the ships, we analyze media and culture and literature and art. Sometimes we post gifs of Mikey. Sometimes we post gifs of SF. Sometimes we post SF videos. Sometimes we have a “remember when…” moment. Sometimes we chat about getting together for weekends. For the regulars, that’s positive. That’s normal. That’s what happens after being together for 2-5 years. It seems dismal to those who don’t frequent this site/this thread but we’re having a free exchange of ideas and doing real critical analysis. What’s more positive and pedagogical than that?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[RumplesGirl]

Also, just to point out that being a critic of a show doesn’t mean that I occasionally don’t find something good in the now rebooted, re imagined show.

I enjoyed episodes like The Dark Swan, Shattered Sight, Sympathy for the De Vil, Operation Mongoose pt1 and said so, vocally. Bobby’s performance is still mesmerizing, even if his character has become a shadow of its former self. I was very excited with the idea of Emma’s katabasis (I’m a sucker for the heroes journey) and wrote extensively on what that would mean for her from a mythological stand point, no criticism, just analysis. I still love talking about all manner of TV here with this community-and in recent years we’ve had more other TV show threads pop up because while many of us don’t particularly like the trend of OUAT as of late, we all still like each other and like discussing things together. I may have disliked 5A quite a bit, but I thought 4B was more organic and at least provided more commentary on the ONCEiverse than the seasons previous.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thedarkonedearie]

I really and truly resent the implication that because we’re disillusioned, disappointed or even angry with the show, we’re not allowed to watch or discuss or analyze. Not how critical analysis works or how the human mind should ever work.

Didn’t mean to offend anyone here.  It just seems that despite some of the positives that you mentioned you like about the show, they don’t seem to get talked about much.  And it seems you rack your brains and bang your heads against the table constantly to the point where it seems like not only you are critiquing it, but it seems like a chore and it frustrates you so much, it feels like you aren’t enjoying yourself.  Obviously people watch shows because they want to critique them and voice concerns on a larger scale regarding themes that pop up in the show.  I totally understand that.  It just doesn’t seem like some people on this thread enjoy talking about the negatives.  It’s a lot of, “this show has bad writing and hasn’t been good since,” (fill in the blank).  And even with the last batch of episodes, the comments about the episodes were mostly negative and I get people enjoy critiquing shows, it just seems like it’s a struggle to watch the show anymore.  There are some people that post on this forum that never have anything good to say about the show.  And it is that reason, that makes me question why they waste their time watching it.  I think it’s a fair question and certainly reasonable giving the amount of scrutiny I see.  I feel like I’m the one attempting to defend the show and the writers constantly to a bunch of “fans” who have nothing but negative things to say.

And don’t get me wrong, I love debating the show.  But it is rather refreshing to hear Daniel and Jeremy on the podcast because they make it very clear what they liked and didn’t like about a certain episode, instead of just focusing on all the negatives.  And I know you guys post the “what you liked/disliked about the episode,” after it airs, and there is certainly some positive talk that goes on there.  Maybe there seems like a lot of negativity because the show is on hiatus and coming off of arguably it’s worst half season yet.  I’ll just blame it on that.

[thedarkonedearie]

And I really did not mean to call anyone out here.  It was just something I noticed.  It’s on hiatus and there was a lot of negativity.  I really was genuinely curious as to why some people on here still watched the show because it seemed they didn’t care for it much anymore.  I just hope some people are a little excited to see what they do with the underworld arc.  It can’t get much worse than the first half right?

[Slurpeez]

This is the Swanfire safe-haven of the thread, which was started back at the end of S2. For the whole summer and first half of S3a there was a lot of hope, joy, and love for Neal/Emma and the show as a whole going on here. Some of us even kept hope until the end of S3b, knowing there would be time-traveling. It seemed like there were narrative hints that Neal might come back in the S3 finale. Yet, then the S3 finale happened (something Adam and Eddy called “epic wish fulfillment“), and most of us ceased believing in Adam’s #HOPE shtick. The terrible thing that happened in 3×15 meant that many fans of Neal became disenchanted with the show as a whole. A lot of us remain because of the forum friendships formed during the disappointment of that loss. This being a safe-space means we rant about a show that used to bring us joy but no longer does. Many people remain in the forum, and even enjoy commiserating together. So, people may seem negative here, but most people contain their frustration to this particular thread. People are free to ignore the thread.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

double post

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[thedarkonedearie]

Things I’m looking forward to in S5b: – The possibility of a Neal/Henry scene

Yes, if I’m going to get MRJ for an episode, at least give me this.

And Slurpeez, I think you explained it very well.  That was sort of the answer I was looking for.  Definitely makes sense.  Clearly I accidentally stuck a cord here haha.

[hjbau]

I just don’t understand why you guys still watch the show if you hate it so much. I’ve never seen so much negativity in a forum about a show that we all still watch. I personally still think they can turn things around and get back to telling the stories properly, mainly because they have always said that they have an end game. So once they stop stalling with story lines they clearly were never planned in advance, I think the final half season or season or whatever could be really great. But for those of you who feel like Neal’s death killed the show and it’s past the point of fixing it, I don’t get why you still watch it. Despite it’s huge flaws, especially in this last half season, I still enjoy it, so I’m still here. Are you guys just determined to finish it out because you’ve invested all this time already?

I watch the show because i still like Emma, but really i don’t have to have a reason to watch the show. I can watch the show because i like to pick it apart and complain about it. That is a valid reason as well. The show is bad though. The story has fallen apart. I was never all that sure if Emma and Neal should get back together when he was on the show, but i know Emma should not be with Hook. I know that the story was supposed to be, in some part, about what happened between Emma and Neal and the whole big family dynamic of the good side and the evil side. That Rumpel’s arc was completely about Neal and the resolution of this relationship did not happen. That Henry never got to know Neal and that Henry asking questions about Neal was sprinkled all through Season 1. I still like Emma when it comes to her relationship with Henry, Snow, Charming, Regina and even Rumpel, but Hook doesn’t fit and important parts of the arcs of a good half the characters don’t exist without Neal.

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