Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[torrie]

torrie wrote:

I agree that it’s sad to see a thread that was once so positive and full of hope this dismal though :/

This thread is plenty positive. We talk about what we want to talk about. We analyze the show, we analyze the ships, we analyze media and culture and literature and art. Sometimes we post gifs of Mikey. Sometimes we post gifs of SF. Sometimes we post SF videos. Sometimes we have a “remember when…” moment. Sometimes we chat about getting together for weekends. For the regulars, that’s positive. That’s normal. That’s what happens after being together for 2-5 years. It seems dismal to those who don’t frequent this site/this thread but we’re having a free exchange of ideas and doing real critical analysis. What’s more positive and pedagogical than that?

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You’re right…I didn’t word my statement well enough. I meant dismal in regards to the show/plot/character development. I look at this thread a lot, but don’t usually post, and I do enjoy seeing the fun MRJ posts and other quirky-fun things about the fandom

[nevermore]

I just don’t understand why you guys still watch the show if you hate it so much. I’ve never seen so much negativity in a forum about a show that we all still watch. I personally still think they can turn things around and get back to telling the stories properly, mainly because they have always said that they have an end game. So once they stop stalling with story lines they clearly were never planned in advance, I think the final half season or season or whatever could be really great. But for those of you who feel like Neal’s death killed the show and it’s past the point of fixing it, I don’t get why you still watch it. Despite it’s huge flaws, especially in this last half season, I still enjoy it, so I’m still here. Are you guys just determined to finish it out because you’ve invested all this time already?

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To some extent, yes, but, with all due respect, I think the argument of “if you hate it so much, why do you keep doing it” is spurious. Let me illustrate with a quick example. Back in grad school, I had a professor who said that if you never pick up a book that, upon reading it, you wanted to throw across the room or out the window, you weren’t doing your intellectual job. I think what she was saying was 2 things: first, that if you only consume things that make you feel warm and fuzzy, or that you agree with, you run the risk of becoming intellectually complacent. And two, if you aren’t occasionally having strong reactions to some things, then maybe you’re not using your critical thinking abilities as much as you could or should. Granted, she was talking about Nietzsche or Marx 😉 But I think the point applies to fiction, even pop fiction too. Which is to say, there is both a utility in, and a pleasure to analyzing, critiquing, picking apart — and yes, reacting with strong dislike, especially if this motivates you to unpack what that reaction is caused by. It’s like doing sit-ups, but for your brain — whether you’re doing them at a fancy gym, or on a mat at home, you’re still exercisinge.

I think there’s another aspect of your post that’s a lot more compelling, and that’s the question of balance: i.e. should it all be negative, and is there maybe a value in giving the other side its due? There are other sections of this forum where people are called upon to voice some positive things about the show. And they do. Or share their craft work. Or talk about other books, shows, and movies. The SF thread, as others here have said, is a slightly different conversation, and one that is ongoing and therefore, like any long conversation, builds on itself. So I think one gets a better sense if you’re reading it as a cumulative, long-standing dialogue, rather than taking its more immediate manifestations. I mean, this thing is massive! Taking its particular peaks and valleys (say, periods that have more critical content) isn’t necessarily a representative sample of the whole thread.

If I were to qualify what seems to bring and keep people together here in SF is actually a very strong attachment to and nostalgia for a show that many feel has disappointed them. But I’d say nostalgia — and a sense of intellectual companionship — is the primary emotion. See my upthread “zombie relative” comparison. That’s why one the verbs that seems to crop up in so many responses to your post is “analysis.”

As to why I watch it — and I’ve been plenty negative about it too — for the longest time I watched because it was something I got to do with my kid niece (a card carrying SF-er at the time). In fact, I think a conversation I was having with her about the treatment of class in OUAT got me started posting on this forum. She’s now a teen, and has dropped the show after 4B because, to paraphrase her, she didn’t want to squander her TV allowance on something with offensive gender politics. Good for her. But I also miss these conversations, so here I am.

[Bar Farer]

I watch the show because it is hard for me to not finish something I stated and got invested in it (I still watch Grey’s Anatomy). I had two friends who used to watch it, but one stopped after 402 with no intention to ever see it again, and the other stopped at the beginning of the current season, she might return to watch it sometime if she has the time. My mother and sister only watch it only because I do.

I don’t think the show can disappoint me anymore after 5A, it took me a long time, but finally I accepted that the show I used to love is over, it’s not the first time it’s happened and it won’t be the last. Now, instead of being angry, I just laugh at what they’re doing, take everything more lightly and come here and enjoy a discussion and other people’s insights and read critical reviews that I enjoy even more than the show itself.

"All your questions are pointless"

[thedarkonedearie]

She’s now a teen, and has dropped the show after 4B because, to paraphrase her, she didn’t want to squander her TV allowance on something with offensive gender politics

Well see that’s kind of why I asked.  Like if a show pisses you off so much, why spend the selective amount of time you have to spend on tv watching OUAT when there are better shows out there?  But really I think you explained it very well.  This thread is a little different than others on here.  And I’m sure if I participated in the SF thread right from its start, I would understand better and know that it has had its ups and downs.

I watch the show because it is hard for me to not finish something I stated and got invested in it

This is a huge reason why I still watch it too.

[RumplesGirl]

Like if a show pisses you off so much, why spend the selective amount of time you have to spend on tv watching OUAT when there are better shows out there?

Watching OUAT doesn’t mean I don’t watch better TV (several people here will tell you that my TV watching is extensive to the point of possible insanity)…OUAT is one hour, one day a week. Sunday 8pm is rather sparse as is so it’s not like live watching OUAT is keeping me from better narratives. So your argument here holds no water.

In other news….

I got so many feels from Galavant’s finale last night. Especially about our wonderful (if sad and dead) ship. This is the “happily ever after” song for Galabella! SF feels, no?  “Journey done” “We’re home.” And where did they end up? In a house by the beach.

That’s right. Gal and Izzy found Tallahassee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujoWeZc6MQI

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Gaultheria]

That’s right. Gal and Izzy found Tallahassee.

I hope the show gets a third season. Happily ever after is nice at first, but those two would be bored with paradise after a week or so. I want to hear that song.

Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher

[hjbau]

I watch the show because it is hard for me to not finish something I stated and got invested in it (I still watch Grey’s Anatomy). I had two friends who used to watch it, but one stopped after 402 with no intention to ever see it again, and the other stopped at the beginning of the current season, she might return to watch it sometime if she has the time. My mother and sister only watch it only because I do. I don’t think the show can disappoint me anymore after 5A, it took me a long time, but finally I accepted that the show I used to love is over, it’s not the first time it’s happened and it won’t be the last. Now, instead of being angry, I just laugh at what they’re doing, take everything more lightly and come here and enjoy a discussion and other people’s insights and read critical reviews that I enjoy even more than the show itself.

I still love Grey’s Anatomy. The problem with Ouat is how things happen. They happen in ways that don’t make sense. While i could totally understand being annoyed that they killed Derrick on Grey’s Anatomy, i don’t think that the characters on that show reacted to that in unrealistic way. I think the characters were completely consistent and coherent in their reaction to that event. I also, personally, don’t think that Meridith and Derricks’ relationship was central to the show and certainly it wasn’t central to the majority of the main character’s arcs on the show like Neal was on Ouat. Grey’s can go on fine without him. I actually think the loss of Cristina was more of a loss to the show then Derrick. I think there is no one that can fix the loss of Neal on this show. There are too many things that can’t happen now, too many conversations that will never happen, too many relationship moments, too many parallels that can’t happen. It really is a complete loss of the integrity of the story.

[Bar Farer]

At least they were kind enough to give us a “series finale” type episode (minus the redundant last scene) before all the mess started. For that I’m greatful.

"All your questions are pointless"

[Rainbow]

(several people here will tell you that my TV watching is extensive to the point of possible insanity)…

And i keep adding more shows to her list, HEHEHEHEHE

"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

[thedarkonedearie]

There are too many things that can’t happen now, too many conversations that will never happen, too many relationship moments, too many parallels that can’t happen. It really is a complete loss of the integrity of the story.

Not to keep bringing this up, but it’s comments like these that sparked my question regarding why you still watch the show if you feel the show is beyond fixable.

[Author]

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