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But I think beyond this, there’s another issue with CS, and that’s the structural mismatch that I think maybe progressively led to where we are now. It’s a combination of who Emma is as a character, who Hook is as a character, and who they are to each other that makes it just a train wreck, in my opinion.
Despite everything, I’m still very open to the possibility that the writers are deliberately writing Hook as Emma’s Mr. Wrong. Everything about S5a just screamed how terrible they were for one another and how they brought out each others’ worst traits (e.g. Emma’s selfishness and insecurity and Hook’s vengence and controlling nature).
Emma and Hook betrayed one another’s trust in the worst possible ways. Emma delibratley denied Hook his dying wish to let him go. She knowingly turned him into the thing he hated most: a dark one. Despite his plea not to put the darkness in him, she condemned him to a fate worse than death (from Hook’s perspective). I don’t condone anything he did to Emma, but she betrayed his trust in the worst possible way.
In some sick and twisted act of revenge, Hook tore down and preyed upon Emma’s known vulnerability of having grown up alone and called her an orphan. Not only has Hook known that is Emma’s biggest insecurity since day one (recall the talk they had on the beanstalk in Tallahassee about him sensing her having the same look in her eyes as the lost boys), Hook then tried to take away Emma’s family from her — after she spent her whole life looking for them! Take that in: Hook tried to rob Emma of her family after Emma turned him into the dark one. Hook is the near destroyer of Emma’s happy ending — her home, her family.
And this pattern of revenge is nothing new between Emma and Hook. It was going on before he ever became the dark one, which is why he doesn’t get a pass in my book for mistreating her. He has been doing this to Emma ever since Tallahassee when Emma left him atop the beanstalk. Hook then left Emma and Snow without provisions to die in that magic jail cell, despite Emma’s pleas to relase her so she could return home to Henry. I just don’t know how the writers could make it anymore clear that Hook is so wrong for Emma and she for him, on so many levels.
By contrast, Neal gave up his own happy ending to get Emma home to her parents, and again to make sure Henry didn’t grow up alone without Emma. Neal then paid the ultimate price with his life to ensure Emma learned who the Wicked Witch was so she could save the town and Henry.
Now, Emma is headed to the Underworld with her family (without a concern for Henry’s safety), determined to get Hook back via heart-splitting (desspite it making no sense) after he tried to MURDER them all. Emma could care less about her son’s wellbeing or Henry’s desire to see his dad again. It’s all about KillyBear, “giving into love” nonsense, yadda, yadda, and handwavy excuses for Hook’s terrible behavior. Tell me again how Emma isn’t OOC and how she isn’t podEmma. All I can say is that this heart-splitting scheme had better not work. (even though I’m bracing myself for it). *HEADDESK!*
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
All I can say is that this heart-splitting scheme had better not work. (even though I’m bracing myself for it). *HEADDESK!*
It’s not going to work.
but if you don’t like reading about Hook and CS being dumped on here, then I encourage and ask that you ignore it.
Oh I had no issues reading about the criticism of Hook. I find it interesting. That’s why I responded to them. I was simply offering another view on it. Not a personal view, like I’m trying to attack you, simply more of a devil’s advocate view if you will.
I am going very very very respectfully ask that you do that in the character threads then. We’ll move on to both Emma and Hook soonish (depends on how long Rumple takes). I just need to look at the whole picture and take everyone’s concerns and issues into account. You are, of course, more than welcome to weigh in on our conversations here. But the devil’s adovcate stuff, let’s do that in non-safe-haven places
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"All I can say is that this heart-splitting scheme had better not work. (even though I’m bracing myself for it). *HEADDESK!*
It’s not going to work.
Even if doesn’t they’l just find another way to save him that, in their opinion, doesn’t offend SQ and SF but gives CS what they want. That’s how A and E roll now a days.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"The heart splitting idea should work given that the price in each case is a life…but I want to bank on True Love being necessary for it to work, too.
And I’m not seeing True, sacrificial Love between Hook and Emma for the most part.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
But I think beyond this, there’s another issue with CS, and that’s the structural mismatch that I think maybe progressively led to where we are now. It’s a combination of who Emma is as a character, who Hook is as a character, and who they are to each other that makes it just a train wreck, in my opinion.
Despite everything, I’m still very open to the possibility that the writers are deliberately writing Hook as Emma’s Mr. Wrong. Everything about S5a just screamed how terrible they were for one another and how they brought out each others’ worst traits (e.g. Emma’s selfishness and insecurity and Hook’s vengence and controlling nature). Emma and Hook betrayed one another’s trust in the worst possible ways. Emma delibratley denied Hook his dying wish to let him go. She knowingly turned him into the thing he hated most: a dark one. Despite his plea not to put the darkness in him, she condemned him to a fate worse than death (from Hook’s perspective). I don’t condone anything he did to Emma, but she betrayed his trust in the worst possible way. In some sick and twisted act of revenge, Hook tore down and preyed upon Emma’s known vulnerability of having grown up alone and called her an orphan. Not only has Hook known that is Emma’s biggest insecurity since day one (recall the talk they had on the beanstalk in Tallahassee about him sensing her having the same look in her eyes as the lost boys), Hook then tried to take away Emma’s family from her — after she spent her whole life looking for them! Take that in: Hook tried to rob Emma of her family after Emma turned him into the dark one. Hook is the near destroyer of Emma’s happy ending — her home, her family. And this pattern of revenge is nothing new between Emma and Hook. It was going on before he ever became the dark one, which is why he doesn’t get a pass in my book for mistreating her. He has been doing this to Emma ever since Tallahassee when Emma left him atop the beanstalk. Hook then left Emma and Snow without provisions to die in that magic jail cell, despite Emma’s pleas to relase her so she could return home to Henry. I just don’t know how the writers could make it anymore clear that Hook is so wrong for Emma and she for him, on so many levels. By contrast, Neal gave up his own happy ending to get Emma home to her parents, and again to make sure Henry didn’t grow up alone without Emma. Neal then paid the ultimate price with his life to ensure Emma learned who the Wicked Witch was so she could save the town and Henry. Now, Emma is headed to the Underworld with her family (without a concern for Henry’s safety), determined to get Hook back via heart-splitting (desspite it making no sense) after he tried to MURDER them all. Emma could care less about her son’s wellbeing or Henry’s desire to see his dad again. It’s all about KillyBear, “giving into love” nonsense, yadda, yadda, and handwavy excuses for Hook’s terrible behavior. Tell me again how Emma isn’t OOC and how she isn’t podEmma. All I can say is that this heart-splitting scheme had better not work. (even though I’m bracing myself for it). *HEADDESK!*
I have a feeling about it as well, maybe all the things we complained about their relationship is actually intentional. There are a lot of signs that suggest that Hook might not be Emma’s True Love like:
1. They became a couple too fast after Neal died, this might suggest that she wants to be with him to heal the hole in her heart after Neal died and Hook is easy cause he’s there, he wants her, he follows her etc…
2. He did a lot of shady things during seasons 3B and 4 – Ariel, Eric, Black Beard, blackmailing Rumple, putting the apprentice in the hat (and there was that weird look between them in 422, implying that this is not over) – maybe all of this was whitewashed because it is going to explode someday that will ultimately end their relationship.
3. When August returned, Hook got jealous of him, might imply about a future relationship.
4. I mentioned here that Neal was mentioned a lot in 5A by Emma and Henry, for instance in episode 505 titled “Dreamcatcher” (one of SF symbols) written by A&E no less, there is a scene of Emma crying with a dreamcatcher in her hand, now everyone suspected that it was because of Henry, but a scene before she and Rumple talked about Neal. There are a lot of othee points that I wrote here previously, but there were times that it seemed like Emma wasn’t really over Neal.
So maybe A&E have been fooling us the whole time and they did intend for Emma and Hook to be unhealthy, maybe if season 6 is the last season, they wouldn’t care about ratings, therefore they wouldn’t care about CSers leaving the show after this season and Hook will remain dead. However, I doubt any of it, if it was their intention all along, they would have made it more clear in the narrative that Emma and Hook’s relationship is not good, especially after people criticizing the relationship as abusive and the romanicing of Hook.
I really want Hook and Emma to not be together anymore, but even if it’s true, it wouldn’t matter because:
a. Emma and Hook are not the only flaw this series has.
b. The ending isn’t worth much if the journey is tainted.
"All your questions are pointless"
The heart splitting idea should work given that the price in each case is a life…but I want to bank on True Love being necessary for it to work, too. And I’m not seeing True, sacrificial Love between Hook and Emma for the most part.
I don’t see it at all and I think it’s rather insulting to Snow and Charming to suggest that Emma and Hook have the same level of powerful love. Snow and Charming who–by that point–had taken back a kingdom from an Evil Queen, had TLK and broken curses, had one child who is the Savior of the World because of their TL, and about to have another one–are being equated to Emma and Hook have dated for all of–what–5 months at most? Yes, love can progress faster for some than others but say that Hook and Emma have the same TL-narrative weight is…an odd writing choice to say the least.
However, I have little hope that the writers aren’t going to go that route.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I am going very very very respectfully ask that you do that in the character threads then. We’ll move on to both Emma and Hook soonish (depends on how long Rumple takes). I just need to look at the whole picture and take everyone’s concerns and issues into account. You are, of course, more than welcome to weigh in on our conversations here. But the devil’s adovcate stuff, let’s do that in non-safe-haven places
Haha yes yes of course. I just wanted to make sure you knew I didn’t hate the Hook dumping. I wanted to challenge some opinions for the sake of debate. It seems the hate came from others.
I don’t see it at all and I think it’s rather insulting to Snow and Charming to suggest that Emma and Hook have the same level of powerful love.
It is insulting. That’s why it’s not going to happen.
I don’t see it at all and I think it’s rather insulting to Snow and Charming to suggest that Emma and Hook have the same level of powerful love.
It is insulting. That’s why it’s not going to happen.
Because this show never does anything insulting?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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