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Yeah, I’ve been bracing myself for it. Checkov’s ring around Emma’s neck has been waiting to go off. When Hook gave her the ring, he reassured her he wasn’t proposing (with the implication he would later down the line). Emma calling Nimue Merlin’s “true love” (despite how toxic the relationship became, resulting in Merlin’s murder) was another clue. I think it’s almost certainly a CS engagement for the S5 finale. Those BTS photos certainly look like a proposal (Emma could be clutching Hook’s ring in the palm of her hand).
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Once again I am filled with a joy that cannot be expressed.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"What irks me the most about this story now is that its moral seems to be “murder isn’t ideal, but as long as you’re sorry enough, you get to go to heaven/get married/have a baby (fill in the blank).” I could deal with terrible, amoral message that if this were a show for adults, but many children and teenagers watch this show with their families. Don’t these writers understand that children internalize narratives as a way to understand and cope with the confusing adult world? I read an article that gets at the heart of it. “For children learning to express and regulate their emotions, Disney films often become their models,” said a professor of film studies.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez has some valid points. At this point in the story, an engagement seems fast, considering he just recently tried to murder everyone. I’m interested to see Hook’s behavior for the rest of the season to see if I feel a little more comfortable about this possible engagement.
Hello, just wanted to post something, bc well this is a special day for this thread, since two years ago this thread became, what i would say canon dead ship and somehow the fact that the possible ( not confirmed yet) spoilers end coming today, sort makes it ironic.
So i posted, on twiter, facebook and tumblr here it is:
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
I could deal with terrible, amoral message that if this were a show for adults, but many children and teenagers watch this show with their families.
@Slurpeez, I totally hear you. Just to complement the argument in the article you linked, this is a bit dated, but have you folks seen the Peggy Orenstein book on the Princess Industrial Complex (here’s a link to the NPR interview with her some years back)? The article is worth a read, I think, because she asks some really interesting, hard questions about the messages that little girls receive about gender through what is otherwise a giant money-making machine only concerned with its own profit margins, (and of which, lets face it, OUAT is a more or less direct extension).
I don’t know if the writers are really aware of any meta-messages they are sending, and if they are, I don’t think they give flying squirrel dung about it. I think this last episode was an especially bad one, in terms of the implicit message: ultimately, Hook’s original impulse to repent, and the sense that maybe he should undertake some kind of penance for what he’s done is entirely annulled through Emma’s blind, slavish adoration. By the end of the episode Hook feels entitled to absolution, not just potentially deserving of it. As in, it’s his birthright for being Emma’s love interest. I think if you’re watching it with younger viewers, you can still make this into a point of discussion, but that takes effort and critical thought — which, lets face it, not everyone has time or energy for.
Anyway, on the other hand, we also know on this show — at least, reading between the lines — that even if you end up with your romantic interest, it doesn’t mean “happily ever after,” or that the relationship is healthy or that it will last. Rumbelle being the prime example. Or what looks like what is going to happen to OQ at the end of this arc. What I am pretty livid about, though, is that if the spoilers are correct, and Robin dies and Hook gets to live — that is so utterly unfair. I suspect SQuers might rejoice for a second, but at this point Emma’s character has become so pitiful and unlikeable that, frankly, Regina deserves better 😛
@nevermore: That is a really thought-provoking article. It raises many excellent questions and makes many interesting points, though it makes my head spin a bit.
I don’t know if the writers are really aware of any meta-messages they are sending, and if they are, I don’t think they give flying squirrel dung about it.
I also go back and forth on this. Part of me wonders how the writers (who actually study how to write screenplays) could be unaware of their story’s own meta-messages. The other part of me, however, realizes their job isn’t just about telling a story but also about cents and dollars. At the end of the day, they’re in show business, and like every business, what matters is profit. For some reason, they’ve bought into the notion that the audience tunes in for Hook (which, if the decline in ratings is any judge, just isn’t true). ABC probably looked at the Twilight phenomenon and thought they could cash in on it.
I think this last episode was an especially bad one, in terms of the implicit message: ultimately, Hook’s original impulse to repent, and the sense that maybe he should undertake some kind of penance for what he’s done is entirely annulled through Emma’s blind, slavish adoration. By the end of the episode Hook feels entitled to absolution, not just potentially deserving of it. As in, it’s his birthright for being Emma’s love interest. I think if you’re watching it with younger viewers, you can still make this into a point of discussion, but that takes effort and critical thought — which, lets face it, not everyone has time or energy for.
It started out well enough (Liam calling out Emma for being incredibly selfish, Hook acknowledging that what he did was terrible and that maybe he should just move on, Regina telling Emma she was too good for Hook), but it went down hill, fast. Why did Liam go to heaven, despite mass murdering his entire crew–because he did an about face to save his brother? I don’t think that’s a sound reason not to have to pay for one’s crimes. And Hook forgave himself just because his mass-murdering brother died for him? And since when is Hook’s “unfinished business” defeating Hades? I’m just honestly so confused.
Anyway, on the other hand, we also know on this show — at least, reading between the lines — that even if you end up with your romantic interest, it doesn’t mean “happily ever after,” or that the relationship is healthy or that it will last. Rumbelle being the prime example. Or what looks like what is going to happen to OQ at the end of this arc.
True. Emma will likely end up with him, but she’s going to have to make the bed she lies in. *twitch*
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
It started out well enough (Liam calling out Emma for being incredibly selfish, Hook acknowledging that what he did was terrible and that maybe he should just move on), but it went down hill, fast. Why did Liam got to go to heaven, despite mass murdering his entire crew? Because he was willing to pay for his crimes and sacrifice himself for his brother? I don’t think that’s a sound reason not to have to pay for one’s crimes. And Hook forgave himself just because his mass-murdering brother died for him? And since when is Hook’s “unfinished business” defeating Hades? I’m just honestly so confused.
So much THIS!
I’m also uncomfortable with the Disneyfication of redemption/atonement that seems to be happening here, because I don’t think there’s a single moral or religious tradition where one simply gets to “try again” quite in the same way they’re allowing Hook. You don’t get to cheat death, cheat retribution, and simply waltz back in after you decided to “forgive yourself.” Sure, they are playing with Greek myths, but overlaying it with some Christian themes in a way that’s not just not applicable, but kind of perverse. If Hook’s unfinished business is with Hades — seemingly for no other reason than Hades roughing him up, which in itself seems totally unclear why that even happened — then it’s essentially saying that Hook gets to take revenge on whatever suffering he had rightfully coming as a result of his misdeeds. Like it or not, Hades is sort of at the “cosmic order” level of things in the OUATverse (though of course that’s not what the show is doing with the character). So Hook gets to bend (if not outright break) the cosmic rules. If that’s not entitlement, I don’t know what is.
Not to mention that Hook is friggin’ old — he’s been around for what, some 100+ years? He’s had ample ample time to reflect on the nature of his actions, he’s had ample time to turn things around. He’s not a young kid who’s made some stupid decisions and therefore should perhaps be given a second chance. Nor did he have any sort of evil spirit riding his back and influencing his decisions for 99% of that time. But they are treating him as if he deserves a second chance by the mere virtue of being Hook. Even his “repentance” reads to me like more self-absorbed emo hand-wringing.
For some reason, they’ve bought into the notion that the audience tunes in for Hook (which, if the decline in ratings is any judge, just isn’t true). ABC probably looked at the Twilight phenomenon and thought they could cash in on it.
I remember there was a discussion upthread about a kind of “event horizon”/Rubicon that a character had to cross to become irredeemable in the audience’s eyes. I wonder if we can say the same thing about the show writing more generally? I think once they started to deal with themes like the afterlife, which they are very clearly utterly unequipped to address in sophisticated, thoughtful ways, we are really moving from just bad writing/ridiculous characterization to a show that seems to have completely lost any semblance of a moral compass. It’d be one thing if it had never laid claim of a moral message — plenty of shows deal with a moral ambiguity, like GOT or House of Cards — but OUAT made claims about Hope™. I suppose getting away with murder and getting the girl is one kind of “hope” *twitch*
Two years
Yes, it is today.
I miss Neal Cassidy (and the show I was so fervently devoted to) a little more everyday.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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