Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[kfchimera]

RG and all others who have had  bad relationships–hugs and cookies for that.

Emma Swan feels your pain. Aside from Neal, that was what she was used to experiencing.  Guys who probably wanted to use her or who she wanted to use–but where her heart remained safe from anything scary or real, just fun.

I wonder what this memory-changed Emma will feel and be like.  I wonder if and when the curse breaks if she will rethink whether leaving Henry really was the best shot years ago.  I think though she will realize that hindsight, especially magical best case scenario you can imagine hindsight, is not a good measure.  Things don’t always go the best way possible and if you love someone you cannot take that risk sometimes if the danger outweighs the good.  It might give her fresh insight on Neal leaving her.

Fighting for love, while a nice theme needs to compliment the other ones of sacrifice and love being strength and a source of hope.   I know that Emma needed to hear what Neal said when they said goodbye.  He has this season expressed that he would fight for her, that he would sacrifice for her, he has stayed strong for her, and finally we end the half-finale that he has hope they will see each other again.

I need a gifset of these moments.  The fighting is obvious, the sacrifice I think is during the shadow thing in Dark Hollow, strength is when he listened to her confession and bear hugged her despite how much her words hurt to hear, because of how much it hurt her to say, and hope in the finale.  Maybe there are better ones to use.

The theme that happy endings aren’t always what we expect, well that is something that could go just about any which way.  Hook definitely seemed to have decided that his lies with Emma, but Neal said outright that he thought Neal and Emma were all he had.

Yes, to those spoiler thoughts.    I do hope we get some bonding when they hit the EF, but I think we’ll go right to tons of action.  What I am kind of wondering is, if the whole “Neal sent Emma to jail is to be addressed–might there be some black fairy connection here, as we never found out what “little fairy” told August those things we don’t know how he knew.   What if Neal did go through another world like Oz, and part of what had him on the run, what motivated him to “steer clear” was some danger from that? 

 

[Slurpeez]

kfchimera wrote:  Yes, to those spoiler thoughts.    I do hope we get some bonding when they hit the EF, but I think we’ll go right to tons of action.  What I am kind of wondering is, if the whole “Neal sent Emma to jail is to be addressed–might there be some black fairy connection here, as we never found out what “little fairy” told August those things we don’t know how he knew.   What if Neal did go through another world like Oz, and part of what had him on the run, what motivated him to “steer clear” was some danger from that?

O___O again! You could be right about this so-called black fairy being the one who told August to come between Emma and Neal! We all had been assuming it was Blue Fairy, but what if the REAL sneaky fairy hasn’t even been named yet? What if the real Sneaky Fairy is the Black Fairy, who could be WWW of Oz? Some of us have speculated that Rumple ends up in Oz, which if that’s the case, then maybe Neal goes after his papa.  Maybe Emma and Neal have some greater role to play in this new curse of hers? Lisas in the chat was suggesting this…but you’d have to read her theory or ask her to explain her thoughts on the matter.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

Where is the source for the photos?

Here you go! Source

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[surayya]

Thanks for the answers Phee 🙂 Rumplesgirl actually gave me the answer I was more wondering about as far as 8:15 goes- that was exactly what I was pondering about, Thank you 🙂

Yes, I was referring to Tamara, but also about the many beliefs/truths  he held onto about his father & their relationship in general (both as father & son, as well as Rumple/Milah/Bae family unit), with what he now knows happened after Rumple let him go & what his father actually was doing to find him etc (like how Emma, knew & believed her parents hadnt abandoned her on purpose, but it doesnt change the fact that for 28yrs that is what she lived kind of thing & she had to work through those emotions etc.)- though much of this may get answered when we come back from S3, since a yr will have passed.

I to, wish they actually had shown us some of Neal’s thoughts & feelings on the whole Tam thing & why Rumple did what he did to his mother (even if we know why), I still hope they will in the next half (I’m REALLY hoping we see Neal reconciling his Bae self with his Neal self- I feel really bad for him, when he say’s “he’s not Bae anymore”, Bae was wonderful & I hope Neal can start to embrace that part of himself again, which I think would be the perfect time to show us his back story- of Bae, becoming Neal as such).

Anyway thank you SF’s, for your time in answering my questions, it is much appreciated 🙂

[Phee]

Thanks for the answers Phee 🙂 Rumplesgirl actually gave me the answer I was more wondering about as far as 8:15 goes- that was exactly what I was pondering about, Thank you 🙂

No worries. 🙂 And it honestly never even occurred to me that the 8:15 had anything to do with Hook, because like RG said, that’s when Emma woke up, it’s not when Hook showed up. She’d had time to make a whole stack of pancakes plus scrambled eggs and hot chocolate by the time he showed up.

Yes, I was referring to Tamara, but also about the many beliefs/truths he held onto about his father & their relationship in general (both as father & son, as well as Rumple/Milah/Bae family unit), with what he now knows happened after Rumple let him go & what his father actually was doing to find him etc (like how Emma, knew & believed her parents hadnt abandoned her on purpose, but it doesnt change the fact that for 28yrs that is what she lived kind of thing & she had to work through those emotions etc.)- though much of this may get answered when we come back from S3, since a yr will have passed.

Well, when he accepted his father and believed that he did love him, that was obviously a massive weight off, which he’d been carrying around for forever. And very soon after that, he watched his father give his own life, in order to protect his. So while he’ll undoubtedly be mourning the loss, (the way he stood still for a moment longer than everyone else when they were released from the spell, because he was just standing there in shock, was heartbreaking), especially considering they could have started to build a life together after all this time apart, I think he’s also filled with pride for his old man, and if he had to lose him again, at least this was how it happened.

I don’t know that that necessarily impacts his relationship with Emma or Henry, because he’d already dedicated himself to them both before all of the stuff with Rumple came to light. If it does impact those relationships, I’d guess it would be in a positive way, because now that he’s accepted that he was actually loved by his father, that’s gonna make him feel better about himself, which will have a flow on effect of him being stronger in general.

Emma’s deal with her parents isn’t exactly the same, because she was starting from a place of knowing absolutely nothing about them, or why they’d given her up. Neal knew Rumple for 14 years, and there was a specific event that they were involved in, so he had a specific grudge that’s now been resolved. In Emma’s case, she’s starting completely from scratch when she’s trying to accept that these people who she never knew existed, are actually her parents, and the same age as her, and they’re fairytale characters, which is another thing that Neal doesn’t have to deal with the shock of, because he’s always known that those “characters” are actually real people.

Basically, Neal is better equipped to deal with his parental dramas, as opposed to Emma being able to deal with hers, so I don’t really expect to get similar parental relationship stuff from Neal that we got from Emma. And now that his storyline with Rumple has come full circle, seeing him do the brave thing, instead of being a coward like he was over the portal, I think it will be an immense sense of closure for Neal. There’s nothing left unresolved between him and Rumple that he needs to wonder about, and regret, and dwell on.

(I’m REALLY hoping we see Neal reconciling his Bae self with his Neal self- I feel really bad for him, when he say’s “he’s not Bae anymore”, Bae was wonderful & I hope Neal can start to embrace that part of himself again, which I think would be the perfect time to show us his back story- of Bae, becoming Neal as such).

Honestly, it baffles me a bit when people say that they see Bae and Neal as being two separate characters. I really don’t think they come across as being different people at all. Bae grew up poor, then lived on the streets in London, then in a cave in NL. We don’t have much of Neal’s history in our world yet, but we do know that he was homeless and having to steal (like in London) in order to scrape by with a meagre existence (like in FTL) and survive on his own (like in NL). He’s resourceful, we know this especially from his time in NL as a child when he figured out how to capture the Shadow, and he’s still resourceful in present day, as we saw with him searching for a way out of FTL. He’s always longed for family, like he did with his father, and like he had with the Darlings, and then like he had with Emma, and then found with Henry. He’s still self sacrificial, like he was when he was willing to give up everything to save his father, and then he gave up his new found family to save the Darling boys, and then he gave up Emma so she could find her family, then he gave up his life (so he expected) at the portal so that Henry wouldn’t lose both of them. These are major traits that are consistent between the boy Bae, and the man Neal.

All he’s ever wanted is a safe family, and several times, both as a child, and an adult, he’s sacrificed that for himself so that others could have it instead. Thankfully, even though he’s now lost Rumple, Emma and Henry (though all of them almost certainly temporarily), he has new family because he’s related to Snowing through Henry, (and even Regina, who I think is starting to soften and accept that she’s a part of the larger family), and he’d likely consider Belle to be family as well, so at least he’s not been left completely alone this time.

[lisas]

Slurpeez108 wrote:

RumplesGirl wrote: That GIF makes me want to drink heavily.

You mean drink hot chotocoalate with cinnamon of course? It’s our chosen beverage around here. To quote Regina, “I don’t do rum.” LOL!

*stern face* of course.

So I had a wacky idea

we had reports of MRJ being on set for the 312 stuff when JMo and Colin were doing the NYC stuff. We all though it odd cause we never saw him. What if Neal is there in NYC? When we see him with Hook in the EF it must be the past. So what if they both came to NYC but obviously Hook had to go to Emma since Emma is likely to punch Neal

OH My Gosh That would explain alot RG Pleae, Please Please let that happen

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

I was lurking in the CS thread just before, in the aftermath of the CSF stuff, and saw someone had posed some questions for SFers, but they weren’t sure if they could even ask them, so I’m posting a response in here…

surayya wrote:

Do people in here who frequent or lurk in the SF thread, think I could ask them a few questions & NOT receive answers based on how it’s relates to CS? (Q = How do they feel about the 8:15 Emma/Henry/Neal thing, after the events of this last ep & Do they want to see Neal reconcile with his past more {as in accepting what he was & what he went through, like Emma had too in NL}, before he gets into a serious relationship?) I only want answers as they relate to their own ship not ours though (I dont want to be told it means nothing to CS because etc. I am really curious as to what they think now (I know some felt 8:15 was important when I read the thread of doom/CSF). I have asked on another site I frequent (which has a mix of SF & CS shippers, but they never really felt 8:15am had any real SF connections in the 1st place, so couldnt give me an answer lol & are split pretty 50/50 on whether a day or 2 is enough to honestly have accepted & move past feeling as he does). I dont want them to feel like I’m wanting them to defend their ship or anything, but I am really curious, if they feel about Neal, how we felt about Hook (to begin with).

The 8:15 has typically been used in relation to things directly involving Emma, Henry, or Neal, so this is just another one to chalk up on the list.

The more significant symbolic things about the ending scene is firstly that she’s in NYC. The last time we saw her, she was living in Boston, so why the change in location? To the same city Neal had been living in. The city where they met again in Manhattan. This ep was titled Going Home. SF had dreams of setting up a proper home. Their final exchange before Neal got out of the Bug and ended up running into August was:

Neal: Tallahassee, baby. We’re almost home.

(Neal exits the car with the bag.)

Emma: Home…

And now, Emma and Henry have made their home in NYC of all places. Even without her new memories, she has been drawn to the place where Neal lived, and it has become her home. NYC is like the new Tallahassee.

Also, the song choice is pretty blatant. If they didn’t intend to show a SF connection, they would not have played that song. In both instances, with Neal and with Emma, the song cuts out immediately before the messenger (postcard/Hook) with news of the Curse arrives. This is a blatant and direct parallel between the two characters.

The fact that they bothered to write in those connections, which exist even though Emma doesn’t currently have her new memories of Neal, screams to me that they are undeniably, irrevocably connected, and are destined to be close to each other, and together.

As far as Neal reconciling with his past before moving on, I assume you mean Tamara, because you also ask if a couple of days is really enough time to get over it, and he’s had plenty of time to reconcile all the other crap he’s had to go through in his life.

I would have liked at the very least a scene where he was told the details of how Tamara was the one who kidnapped Henry, and how it was his father who killed her. The fact that we got none of that suggests that anything to do with him learning about and reacting to Tamara’s final actions, just happened off screen. Which is kind of annoying, because it’s something that would be worthwhile showing his reaction to, but it also means that yes, he has addressed it in some way, so I don’t really consider it a huge issue with him moving on.

He may have loved Tamara, but he also never stopped loving Emma. A big part of why he didn’t go to SB, and instead carried on with Tamara, is because he didn’t believe he’d have a chance with Emma anyway, because he’d never forgiven himself, so he had no reason to expect that Emma would forgive him, and seeing him again would only serve to hurt her, which he didn’t want to do because he still loved her and had hurt her enough. (Now that I’m thinking about it, that attitude is similar to Emma not being able to believe in the good moments, always expecting the doom. And because this is something that Neal did experience through the Tamara mess, it contributes to how he was able to stand strong for Emma at the town line, and tell her that it was gonna be OK and they’d make it through and see each other again. He was a bit Charming-esque in basically telling her that this is just one of those twists and turns that they’ll inevitably be faced with in life. Anyway, I digress….)

So he gave into his fear of facing Emma, and stuck with Tamara instead. Tamara was always his second choice, if he could have been with Emma, he would have, so I daresay they might have actually been some sense of relief for him when he discovered that Tamara was evil, and he no longer had any obligation to try and stand by her, and deny his feelings for Emma.

It’s really not as straightforward as, “Neal was gonna marry someone else a week ago, so there’s no way he could be ready to move on already.” It’s a very unusual circumstance, with a complicated clash of emotions. Jane Espenson once said that in TV, fiancees are like walls, they can be moved out of the way. Tamara’s true self being revealed was, more than anything else, an obstacle for SF being moved out of the way. They made her as horrible as possible so that no one would mourn her, including Neal himself.

I’d have liked to see a scene where he had a moment of, “How could I have been so stupid,” because once again, he got the crap end of the stick in life. But on the other hand, the fact that we didn’t see him beating himself up like that indicates that he’s learning and growing and gaining strength through his struggles, which is an admirable thing.

Phee I agree with you on all points. You hit the nail right on the head.

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[surayya]

Phee, I think you took this:

(I’m REALLY hoping we see Neal reconciling his Bae self with his Neal self- I feel really bad for him, when he say’s “he’s not Bae anymore”…)

Out of the context I was using it in- I didnt say that Neal was 2 different characters at all- I said I hope we see him reconcile his Bae/past self- the self he keeps telling people, he isnt anymore (the side that connects him to Rumple), with his Neal/new self, the side that keeps him ‘safe’. Just like Emma has her old (walled up) side to stay safe & her new (Walls down) side & open to who she really is, or Rumple has his pre Belle side & post Belle side- it doesnt make them 2 different characters IMO, it’s simply different facets of the same personality.

I dont want to get into an argument about it, it wasnt my intention to make anyone defensive (I honestly re-read what I’d written 3times before posting it to make sure nothing could be taken out of context). Anyway I hope that clears up what I was saying. Thanks again for the time to answer the question.

[lisas]

kfchimera wrote: Yes, to those spoiler thoughts. I do hope we get some bonding when they hit the EF, but I think we’ll go right to tons of action. What I am kind of wondering is, if the whole “Neal sent Emma to jail is to be addressed–might there be some black fairy connection here, as we never found out what “little fairy” told August those things we don’t know how he knew. What if Neal did go through another world like Oz, and part of what had him on the run, what motivated him to “steer clear” was some danger from that?

O___O again! You could be right about this so-called black fairy being the one who told August to come between Emma and Neal! We all had been assuming it was Blue Fairy, but what if the REAL sneaky fairy hasn’t even been named yet? What if the real Sneaky Fairy is the Black Fairy, who could be WWW of Oz? Some of us have speculated that Rumple ends up in Oz, which if that’s the case, then maybe Neal goes after his papa. Maybe Emma and Neal have some greater role to play in this new curse of hers? Lisas in the chat was suggesting this…but you’d have to read her theory or ask her to explain her thoughts on the matter.

Slurpeez is right I been suggesting this theory as off the wall as it may sound when you think about it could very well be plausible.
I said earlier tonight in chat that I believed that their is only so many times that Emma as the savior & Henry as the heart of the truest believer can escape the effects of this type of curse either when it cast or broken. This last time was because of Rumple making her the Savior to break the dark curse because he wove Snow’s & Charming’s True love into the curse and used a drop of the potion that he made on the parchment as saftey valve as he called it which is what triggered her to be the savior. Henry was born in our world yes but his entire family is from the Enchanted Forest and he has been touched by magic by Emma, Regina, Rumple, Neal and of course Pan. He the heart of the truest believer it makes him just a magical and as special anyone else from the Enchanted Forest who has magic. As we saw when Regina adopted him he lived under the curse like everyone else until Snow gave him the book of fairytales which we now know is what woke him up from the curse and sent on his way to find Emmas and bring her to Storybrooke to break the curse. I think they could only escape Regina’s curse & Pan’s curse because it was basically the same curse. But this new curse from the WWW I have my doubts that they could escape it both when it’s cast and the effects when it is finally broken.

I came up with this theory that the Wicked Witch for whatever reason needs Emma & Henry to lock the curse in somehow. She either threatens Neal, Snow & Charming or She threatens Emma & Henry either way I originally felt that Hook was the only one who was sent back to retrieve Emma & Henry and restore their memories but since we have heard that MRJ was on set during the time when JMo & Colin were filming the NYC stuff. I’m think Neal comes with Hook to not only help restore Emma & Henry’s memnories but also to reunite with his family. I think the potion is either BF’s memory potion or one the WWW has made using the blood from Snow,Charming and Neal because they are connected to them by blood, they’re family. I suspect once that happens Emma & Henry are brought to the EF to rescue Snow & Charming from whoever is threatening them. I’m certain that once Emma & Henry are in the EF that is when the WWW will cast her curse and send everyone to a recreated SB after their drinking that potion and their memories are restored then they will be like everyone else from the the enchanted forest who is in SB Cursed but it will take Emma & Henry & Neal to break the curse. I think Emma will find the scroll that she thought Regina destroyed.

As I said I don’t think Emma & Henry can escape the effects of having to go back to the Enchanted Forest with everyone else once this curse is broken.

I suspect that the majority the arc with the WWW will take place in the EF and that WWW is running things from there

I really think that Hook & Neal will bring & Emma & Henry Back to the EF first to save Emma’s parent’s & reunite with them first first before the WWW curses everyone again and sends them all to a recreated SB.

My thinking is that WWW somehow needs Emma & Henry back in the Enchanted Forest with their their memories restored in order to lock in her curse and recreate Storybrooke. The Memory Potion that the BF made for Belle & Sneezy was light blue the the potion that Hook gives them is more dark bluish to purplish in color I think she took the blood from Snow, Charming & Neal because they are related by blood. I also think that by Emma & Henry drinking it that will make them residents of the Enchanted Forest and when the curse is broken this time there will be no escape they will like everyone else have to go back to the EF like Emma was meant be all along. The blood may also be a key in binding Henry to the EF so that he can remain with his entire family

Is that to off the wall

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[Phee]

I dont want to get into an argument about it, it wasnt my intention to make anyone defensive (I honestly re-read what I’d written 3times before posting it to make sure nothing could be taken out of context). Anyway I hope that clears up what I was saying. Thanks again for the time to answer the question.

Not defensive, so no worries. 🙂 I’ve just seen it time and again that people, (typically CSers), talk about there being a total disconnect between Bae and Neal, and that’s why they feel like they can’t connect with Neal, so I figured that’s what you were getting at.

I think that the big, “IT’S NEAL,” outburst was just a heat of the moment thing. Rumple was dodging questions, Neal screaming at him was sort of to slap him in the face and say, “I’m not that little kid anymore, I’m an adult, and you’re gonna start treating me like one and tell me the effing truth!” Once Rumple had proven himself in NL, and then they got back to SB, Neal didn’t correct him any more. One particular moment off the top of my head is when he gave him back the cane and Rumple said, “Thank you, Bae,” and he didn’t react at all.

I guess I don’t really consider his Neal-ness to be a separate, walls up, “safe” version of himself, Neal is just the person he’s grown into, so I don’t really expect there to be any past/present reconciliation he needs to do. He can’t have been all walled up if he let Tamara in. I don’t think Neal has ever felt particularly “safe” (apart from the time he was with Emma back in the day), because he’s pretty convinced that the universe will continually screw him over. When they came knocking on his door, his instinct was to run, which isn’t the action of someone who feels “safe” in their present persona. Being Neal instead of Bae isn’t like emotional armour, I don’t think. He’s always been vulnerable. Emma had emotional armour galore, but I don’t think Neal was really the same. He tried to bury certain things, like his feelings for Emma, but I don’t consider that the same thing as having walls up to protect himself. I think he knows his own emotions pretty well, and owns them.

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