October 16, 2016 at 9:09 pm #328754
I ask this every episode, lately, but is there any hope for Rumbelle? What did you guys make of Rumple’s declaration that Belle would come back to him, if not out of love than necessity and that Belle needs him even if she can’t admit it. Is anyone else having some queasy feelings over this ship? If Belle were to go back and live as his wife again, does that work for you? Does that work for the story?[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"October 16, 2016 at 9:30 pm #328759AKAParticipant
This is probably going to be the unpopular view but I am going to defend Rumple here. Should he have locked her on the boat and taken away her free will, Nope, but he also knows Belle pretty well. She is impulsive, naive, and has a major hero complex issue so can I understand why he did it. We like to say that Belle has not just herself to think about now, but so does Rumple. That is his unborn child she is caring and he was doing what he thought was best to protect Belle and the baby from Hyde. Hyde and EQ told him directly that they were going after Belle so Rumple did what he thought would protect both of them.
As for the ending speech I think Rumple is saying that the child will be in danger because of Rumple and that Belle is going to have to accept Rumple’s help in protecting that child. If Belle does not want his help once that child is born, fine but until then it is Rumple’s responsibility to protect both Belle and that baby. He has every right to be angry because to tell you the truth Belle has been incredibly unreasonable and angry with him since she found out she was pregnant. She is the one who put herself in a sleeping curse, she is the one who is refusing to even entertain the thought that Rumple might want to be part of this child’s life, and she is the one who is listening to some dream baby about what is right and wrong. All of this is not to mention that she is flip flopping the poor man every other day, I don’t want you, I do want you back and forth. I can’t believe he didn’t react in anger before this. I am not excusing Rumple in all of this, but we tend to look at this relationship in black and white. Rumple is wrong and Belle is right. Belle is not always right and all the problems are not all RumpleOctober 16, 2016 at 9:30 pm #328760GaultheriaParticipant
I don’t think we’ve ever before seen outright hatred from either of them, directed at the other. Belle’s been frustrated and disappointed with him, and Rumpel has lashed out in frustration over his own confused feelings, but even though I’ve felt for a while that the relationship is past the point where it could work, it’s always seemed that they had genuine affection and concern for each other’s wellbeing. That confrontation on the dock tonight was the first time they’ve seemed like enemies rather than tragic lovers.
(The bit about forcing Belle to remain on the ship, well, someone on the writing staff has a dark sense of humour.)
Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasherOctober 16, 2016 at 9:34 pm #328761
That confrontation on the dock tonight was the first time they’ve seemed like enemies rather than tragic lovers.
This is how I feel too. This was the first time when it felt like they straight up didn’t like each other. I don’t doubt that they love each other; but the best relationships aren’t just about love, they are also about liking one another."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"October 16, 2016 at 9:35 pm #328762WickedRegalParticipant
I’m convinced Adam and Eddy simply don’t know how to write romance stories…especially if it requires equality without one partner having to dominate over the other.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn BalorOctober 17, 2016 at 6:51 am #328782PxlbarrelParticipant
Yeah, this argument seemed a little harsher than most. I get that Belle is angry but Rumple, in his rather bumbling way was only trying to protect Belle from one of his many enemies. And I probably won’t win awards for siding with Rumple in this relationship.
Here’s my problem with Belle’s now hatred of the person she sees. She used to see the man behind the beast which is what endured us to this relationship but now she just sees him as evil. Last season, Rumple told her that he wasn’t going to change and that part of her liked him dark. This is absolutely true. All throughout their relationship, she has always wanted Rumple to be a good man … even going so far as to leave him in Season 4 when she discovered his deception. BUT in Season 5 when he had finally become a hero with a pure heart, she ditched him at the well where they were married. How cruel is that? He’s finally become the man she always wanted him to be and that’s the time to leave him?
And then, right after the rejection, he runs into Dark One Hook who taunts him about the dagger and how he must miss it. C’mon … Does anybody else think that Belle is the reason he was tempted again by the dark side and found a way to become the Dark One again?
And what kills me is how easily Belle forgives Hook for trying to kill HER a few times and how really evil he became as the Dark One. Rumple did sacrifice himself to save her and Bae (I doubt he thought he’d be resurrected) so did she forget that? It always bothered me that last season, when Rumple was trying to escape Merida (and Emma) that he questioned that he was never brave and Belle never brought up the part when he killed himself and his father to save the two people he loved.
Yeah, I am behind Rumple on this … Belle is confusing. And at least Rumple is trying, his own ham handed way, of keeping communication open with her.October 17, 2016 at 7:05 am #328784PxlbarrelParticipant
Can I also say that the writing drives me insane. How can you go from last week’s poem that melts everybody’s hearts to THIS? Jane Espenson needs to write all the Rumbelle storylines because I don’t think anybody else knows how to write them.October 17, 2016 at 7:26 am #328785
Can I also say that the writing drives me insane. How can you go from last week’s poem that melts everybody’s hearts to THIS? Jane Espenson needs to write all the Rumbelle storylines because I don’t think anybody else knows how to write them.
I agree with this part. The disconnect between last week and this week is jarring, to say the least."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"October 17, 2016 at 8:48 am #328801nevermoreParticipant
To @RG’s original question whether the ship is done: my understanding is that for a ship to work you need to actually like both characters. Or if we have a villain in the pair, the other character needs to be (1) extremely likable and (2) they must really care about the villain character, thus transmitting some of that emotion to the audience by association.
In other words, since we know Rumple’s currently black hat, for Rumbelle to float we need to adore Belle, and Belle needs to genuinely like/care about Rumple (even if it’s not in a romantic way). But she isn’t written in a way that’s likable this season, and she sure doesn’t seem to like Rumple in any way shape or form — so in a way they are actually turning her into Milah. Belle’s coming across as using her pregnancy and Rumple’s attachment to the idea of a child to wield emotional power. Since they already have a ridiculous power difference, this is a horrible narrative choice if the goal is to retell the BB story and “empower” Belle (i.e. to write a feminist retelling, as A&E like to claim they do on this show). The ship is certainly done, but as it sinks, it does a great job demonstrating the mentality of the writers and showrunners. To me, this is a misogynist narrative, and not just because of Rumple being high-handed, but because of how Belle herself is portrayed — as the walking stereotype of the irrational, manipulative, hysterical pregnant woman. And the dynamic that comes out of this allows for Rumple’s actions to have ethical “wiggle room” because he can be viewed as reacting to and trying to mediate her irrationality.
To say this is problematic storytelling would be an understatement — it’s actually mildly nauseating.October 17, 2016 at 10:00 am #328802MattParticipant
I really don’t understand why they bothered including Belle in this show, because IMO they have done such an awful job with her character throughout. Any time it seems like they are finally going to take her in a different direction they wimp out! She is just a complete non-starter for me because I have never really warmed to her and that is down to how badly she has been written. I wish they would have her using her book smarts more, and doing stuff that doesn’t involve Rumple or the baby. And she needs to cast some sort of restraining spell so that Rumple can’t come anywhere near her.
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