The Captain Swan thread!

[sweetgrass]

Agree POM and epona.  I was fairly indifferent to Neal and only started to warm to him at the end on Season 3A.  I felt for him and truthfully want MRJ to have a successful career, but the way some of SF act, it makes me hope that Neal never comes back to the show in flashbacks or anything else because it will only wind them up for another round of Hook bashing.  It’s like they hate Hook and blame him for Neal’s death.  They take any word or action of Hook and twist it into something very ugly.  For example “I will win your heart” becomes I will ignore your wishes and make mine.   “I will win your heart” is a phrase that I’ve seen since I was a kid and always took it as “I will become/show you that I am the kind of man you can love”.  Nothing dastardly about that.  When Hook offers to step aside to give Neal a chance with Emma, I thought that SF fans would be over the moon with happiness and like Hook.  Instead they were angry with Hook for giving Neal fair warning that if Emma was not able to let go of the hurt Neal inflicted on her, then Hook would purse her.  I think it was good of Hook to clearly spell out his intentions.   Neal doesn’t get dibbs on Emma because he knocked her up over a decade ago.   Hook being steadfastedly at Emma’s helping her, becomes he’s harassing her and forcing himself on her.  No matter that she sought him out on occasions.

It is hard for me because it not only impacts my view of Neal but of Rumple as well.  Because so many of the SF fans are hardcore Rumple fans (so much so I thought initially it was their love of Rumple that was buoying their love of Neal) that it makes me root against Rumple’s happy ending.  POM you give me hope on that front, since I know you are a hardcore SF fan, so who knows maybe I will like Rumple again.

[Bo-Peeps]

PoM~Be glad you don’t “Get it”! (Slow smile) You ‘ve rationally and sanely written out many intelligent reasons why the fandom SHOULD understand the way A&E’s story has played out. It is theirs to tell. Period.

But as we all now know, when you deal with certain Neal fans~after a respectful period of understandable grief and *mourning* for the character~ there IS no rational or sane thinking left…there is only delusional (and now rather disgusting as well) rabid alternate universe ranting about how Neal made everything happen and Neal is the center of all things perfect and noble and Neal is the Saint of all things OUAT…blah blah excessive, wallowing worship blah blah. And A&E have ruined their lives and hopes and beliefs. And oh yeah, Hook is the spawn of helllll.

“They are a tad removed from reality, dearie.” said with a Rumple arm and hand motion.

Everyone else is wrong, stupid, and the characters are all now the insipidly-misused “OOC”. Every character in OUAT is hopelessly flawed and imperfect…except Neal. Everyone makes mistakes…except Neal. No one deserves or symbolizes true love…except Neal. Every moment of every show should be about Neal or his memory. And the moments that are about Neal are never good enough, long enough, appreciative enough. If it doesn’t serve their glorification of Neal, it is a PLOT device.

 

I hope none of us will ever “get” why Hook is so hated and A&E are so demonized, because then we would join the ranks of immature, self-indulgent, joy killing, shallow thinkers, who willingly embrace braindead denial.

It is not just sad anymore, it is pathetically petty. And it has very badly served the character they profess to know better than those who created him.

Their choice. They are more than welcomed to their little mean corner of delusion and despair.

The rest of the fandom can continue the journey as entertained, surprised, positive and interested spectators.

 

***Always in search of a good flock***

[Jenna_B]

Thanks, @POM, I appreciate that post!  (I dunno, folks, I think CS finally won POM over and just might be one of her backup ‘ships!  😉 ) And agreed, POM, Epona & Sweetgrass!

I was accused the other day (once again) of not being upset about Neal’s death because that event allowed my ship to come to fruition.  This accusation could not be more wrong.  I never thought Neal was competition for Hook, not even for a moment.  And not because the writers and creators of the show flat out said Hook was going to love Emma, but because Neal and Emma just didn’t feel like a present-day couple.  They did embody the indea that two people can love each other, be separated and still come together to co-parent their child – and in doing so, become wonderful friends.  And I loved that about Emma and Neal’s present day relationship.  It would have been a wonderful way to really cement the idea that families do not need to look like the 1950s stereotypical nuclear family to actually BE a family.  They even showed us the potential for that storyline in 3×15, and then ripped Neal away – uncalled for, I felt!  But had Neal not been killed, I am completely convinced CS was where Emma’s romantic storyline was going, and I thought the writers had been making this painstakingly clear since they climbed up that beanstalk.  So please, do not accuse me of feeling a certain way, or assume I do feel a certain way, because it helps fuel your anger.  ASK ME how I feel about the situation and I’ll give you an honest answer – and if you listen, you might be surprised.   The constant OOC, plot hole, fan pandering cries just make those positive feelings I had toward Neal sour…and I’m sure at some point I’ll crack Neal’s own fans will have me going so far as to say “I’m glad he’s gone!”  That’s what negativity and spite does.

On a more positive note, though, I will say, I feel like the hiatus is really going to help with the negativity.  For some reason my phone always likes to dump me in the SF thread when I come onto this site.  My phone has a mind of it’s own and is, apparently a SFer!  (ok, or maybe I’m too impatient and try to get to threads before my phone can catch up…)  So I end up seeing posts and whatnot and I am starting to see a little less Hook bashing.  I’m not going to be offended if there’s Hook-bashing in that thread, it’s understandable and their no holds barred haven just like this is ours.  But hopefully if the Hook-bashing can subside in what seems to be the most anti-Hook thread on the site, maybe it can spread to the rest of the forum and to chat over time.  And that’s all I really ask – people can say negative things about characters in the spirit of debate in non-shipping threads, but I just want it to be in the spirit of debate and NOT spite.

[callmeLola]

I think it was good of Hook to clearly spell out his intentions. Neal doesn’t get dibbs on Emma because he knocked her up over a decade ago. Hook being steadfastedly at Emma’s helping her, becomes he’s harassing her and forcing himself on her. No matter that she sought him out on occasions.

Thank you @sweetgrass! After that scene in the diner I recall reading plenty of posts about how Hook had violated the “BRO CODE” by going after Emma, when she was already Neals. Umm, since when does any man get to call “dibbs” on a woman? Now THAT’S offensive! It was Emma’s choice all along. She chose not to meet Neal for lunch and she chose to be with Killian, period, full stop.

[ilayda]

I think SF shippers never accepted the fact that Emma didn’t have romantic feelings for Neal for so long and Neal coming to her life again didn’t change it. She only started to respect him again but she never trusted him again nor see him as a love interest. I am not saying she didn’t love him or she didn’t have any feelings for him ofcourse she did he was her first love that she can never get over truly i myself exprienced that it is not like you are still in love with that person but you can never make yourself fully recover from that pain and find the strength to love again. And plus he was her son’s father which makes him a part of her family her life.I think Emma loved Neal as his son’s father, as an old friend , like couples who divorced years ago and still has respect and love for each other. So for me there was never been a love triangle from the beginning . I loved young Bae more than i loved Neal ,his character and his story was so interesting i think Bae and Neal should have been different characters. I love MRJ as an actor i think he can pull out any type of character ( ıf you watched him on True Blood you get what i meant ) but i was never interested in Neal on the show ( even though i had positive feelings on him ) but i dont think this is the actor’s fault ,i think that A&E couldn’t or didn’t write his story as interesting as young Bae’s if they wrote him more scenes with Rumple, Belle or Henry (like @PriceofMagic said) if we saw his relationship with those people more than his brief interaction with Emma he would have become more interesting and more real.

[obisgirl]

I think SF shippers never accepted the fact that Emma didn’t have romantic feelings for Neal for so long and Neal coming to her life again didn’t change it. She only started to respect him again but she never trusted him again nor see him as a love interest.

I agree.  I think if Emma wanted a romantic relationship again,  Neal would have needed to build trust with her all over again. But looking back at how things ended and where Emma ended up after Neal left, it would have been very difficult to rekindle that relationship.  That’s the thing, I think most SwanFire ‘shippers don’t understand.  I look at what happened in Tallahassee and I feel sorry for Emma because it was a traumatic event from her point of view.  SwanFire fans look at it and see it more, probably from Neal’s perspective and don’t understand Emma’s trauma.

If I were in Emma’s situation, regardless of the circumstances of why he left, I would not let the man back into my life romantically AT ALL. Because there’s too much of a risk that he would hurt me again.

I think Emma loved Neal as his son’s father, as an old friend

Yes to this too and again,  that’s all Neal could hope for.  Emma didn’t seem him as a romantic interest but at least she realized it was important for Henry to have Neal in his life and she could be friends with Neal but probably nothing beyond that.

[Bo-Peeps]

Just saw Frozen 🙂 It was cute.

Feisty Ana had the best lines (grin). Disney proves again that they don’t like parents!! I can see why Adam and Eddy were so enamored with the overall TL theme. May have been a little crossover of sorts to how Zelena got *frozen* into a statue and how she walked up the yellow brick road and it glowed.

Having a little trouble figuring out now how Elsa can be a big baddie. She was far more sad/ tragic than she was bad. And her whole existence was tied in to her sister. Hard to separate the two. I can see the *uncontrollable magic* angle but what motivation to cause havoc in Storybrooke? Will be interesting to see how this unfolds via Eddy and Adam-imagination

***Always in search of a good flock***

[callmeLola]

[Bo-Peeps]

OK, that is so incredibly sweet!

Thanks for the smile callmeLola 🙂

***Always in search of a good flock***

[surayya]

*sniggers*

http://wobblywibbly.tumblr.com/post/85981741386/i-made-this-gif-and-now-i-cant-stop-laughing

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