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I agree with all of that. It’s really disturbing to me when I read comments about that opening scene in 3A is meant to be seen as something romantic because it’s not.
Really? People think that’s romantic? How? That makes no sense. Although you’d think I’d be used to some areas of the fandom making no sense.
I think it’s because a lot of SF fans believe that since Henry is the truest believer that also makes him a byproduct of true love. Adam and Eddy have never really explained the connection. When Baby Neal was born, I think his birth produced the rainbow affect but with Emma, all it did was make the lights flicker. It’s hard to say.
The problem I now have with the whole “True love” thing since A&E’s attempt at “explaining” the difference between TL & Soul mates is, pretty much every couple everywhere in FTL should have given birth “products of TL” since TL is just truly loving someone o.O
Here’s their “explanation” Of TL vs Soul mates:
“True love is when you truly love someone. Soul mate is the idea that there’s only one person for you.”
Soooo if all TL really is, is “truly loving someone” then why is TL so flippn “hard” to come by & such a “rare” thing?
Surly Rumple could have just plucked 2 hairs from any random couple that ‘truly’ love each other, inorder to “bottle TL”. What makes Charming & Snow’s TL ‘special’? …. I really think A&E just dug themselves deeper into the plot device hole with the answer they gave- wish they’d just said something along the lines of “Good question. We cant do the answer justice off the top of our heads, but we’ll have a think about it & answer later”, or “Dont want to answer that here, it’ll be answered on the show” etc. Because as things stand the loss of Daniel to Regina seems to have been belittled- he was only someone Regina ‘truly’ loved- oh well, people truly love their goldfish- she’ll get over it & move on, but Robin is her “soul mate” so the only person she can be with- if she’s not with him, she is doomed to a loveless/romantic-less life ….. Whaaaa?
I guess it does make sense in context of Emma/Neal- Emma & Neal “truly” loved each other… ok so by that standard “they were TL”- But since they didnt work out at all, it’d seem that Neal wasnt the only person for her- so it could be Killian who is, he’d then be her “soul mate” & does that then make Neal romantic “cannon fodder”… does it make all TL romantic cannon fodder- since it seems TL is trumped by “soul mate”?
What about Snowing- could Charming ditch Snow for the Snow Queen- since she could be his soul mate & Snow “just” his TL? Or what about Snow, is there someone else out there- a “soul mate” who will have her ditching Charming to be with “the one person for her”.
You’d think A&E would have at least gone “Give us a sec” (used their phs to Google the definition of “soul mate” & “TL”) & given us those as explanations o.O
Actual definitions:
Soul mate = “A person who is perfectly suited to another in temperament or who strongly resembles another in attitudes &/or beliefs. A person ideally suited to another as a close friend or romantic partner.”
True Love = “One truly beloved or loving”.Those make far more sense with-in the context of the show & dont retcon Snowing’s supposedly “epic” TL, nor Regina’s heart break over Daniel & when applied to CS makes total sense:
Neal = TL (Emma did love him, so it stands to reason she did “truly” love him)
Killian = Soul mate (since he & Emma are ideally suited to each other & strongly resemble one another in attitude & beliefs).
I’m still just having trouble wrapping my head around A&E’s (I’m sure, unintentional) downgrading of TL is all- I mean does this mean Pongo is Archie’s TL?… Or does he not “truly” love Pongo o.O …. also does that mean since TL is supposed to be a rear & “powerful” thing, that most people in FTL, dont actually “truly” love their partners/ husbands/wives/children/parents/friends/family etc? o.O Thats kind of a gloomy, horrid implication.
[adrotate group="5"]Since you brought it up Epona and all that staff twirling made me kind of physically exhausted (grin) I am going to go mental for a moment. Heh.
In all seriousness, Neal was toxic to Emma’s life and did hideous damage to her already damaged psyche.
He was more than mildly narcissist in his short relationship with Emma as a teen and as an adult woman.
Also, here was a teenaged girl living a life on the edge of the law and he taught her how to cross over that edge further into criminal behavior. Was that mindful of what was good for her? No. Young lust is young lust, sure. But he was also quick to suggest that HE go to Canada and leave her alone when things got rough. And if all the comments about “rape culture” are to be looked at as more than just a hideously fabricated excuse to attempt a character assassination of Hook and his fans, let’s address the fact that Emma was underage when, knowing this, adult Neal had sex with (and impregnated her). That is Statutory rape. Fair law or not, it is. No speculation involved.
Neal “did the right thing” in allowing her to take the rap for him? Twisted Romantic Rationalization aside, it was an ignoble act of cowardice. BAD FORM in the context of true love. It is mostly Neal’s character to run away. A convenient excuse to enable his inability to face life after Bae.
Oh…but he left her the car and some cash for when she got out of incarceration. Swell.
A decade later after he has moved on but is forcefully re-attached to her life, he mocks her “powers” and accuses her of being jealous of Tamara. He’s willing to embrace Henry, and claim newly realized fatherly rights but frankly, he acts like a schmuck to Emma. Now that the curse was broken and there was no interference problems from him, he still didn’t treat her as his true love. It still was all about Neal.
Pah. Obnoxious and toxic to Emma.
Neverland? All about saving Henry, which finally gave him a noble purpose other than saving himself and we could cheer him on at last… and…then…oh no…backslide, yeah, “I will always fight for you, Emma” delivered with as much enthusiasm and sincerity of a slug. When had he ever fought for her?? He hadn’t. But now that Tamara had vaporized, well, there was always the mother of his child who was plagued with abandonment issues to attempt to ingratiate himself to…And golly gee when they got back to Storybrooke why not ask her to have a hamburger at Grannie’s place?
His raising the dark one act is labeled heroic. But it was a selfish “no matter the cost” act with little thought or concern for the countless lives it could damage. He paid the ultimate price for it, saved temporarily by the deep love of his father who he had spent his lifetime vilifying.(And to be fair, not without reason!)
Ah, but when he actually DID do something heroic in sending the potion with the dove, who did he send it to?
Yeah, the man he knew would get the job done no matter the risk, no matter the obstacles, no matter what it cost, personally.
Yeah. The man who truly loved Emma and would take on the world and risk his life to bring her back.
……
On another note, that interview will Jennifer is more than intriguing!
I love this show 🙂
***Always in search of a good flock***
Doubling back…the True Love/ Soul Mate question.
Rushed answer to a question they were not prepared to handle in the atmosphere of a convention panel. Your answer(s) would have been far better!
Instead of analyzing the clumsy reply given, I’m more inclined to shake my head at A&E and stick with my own interpretation:
Regarding feelings between people True Love involves deeply romantic, ultimately tactile and sexual connections. Soul Mates involve all human connections, spiritual particularly. In my view you can be both True Love and Soul Mate to one person. But you can be a Soul Mate to a person without necessarily being their True Love.
Both are immensely powerful.
Which one is superior is not a definitive subject.
***Always in search of a good flock***
Ok, so the ‘old’ me would’ve sat here trying to justify Neal’s actions…but the ‘new’ me who read onr too many ridiculous comments from anti-Hook fans agrees wholeheartedly with your post, @Bo-Peeps! And wow is it liberating! There was a lot I was willing to let Neal slide on – but the impregnating a teen just skeeved me out. From his ‘let’s get a drink’ comment during their 1st meeting…the girl’s seven-freaking-teen! At most! (*shivers*). I don’t care how old she seems thanks to living on the streets – if anything THAT is why a guy in his mid-20s should absolutely stay away. Jen plays 17 yr old Emma as an obvious ‘acting tough’ but completely vulnerable and incredibly lonely child underneath perfectly. Neal, with his own severe abandonment issues should have seen this and understood…instead he let August talk him into sending her to jail…pretty easily, I might add. Some want to use this as an example of crappy writing but in fact it was done wonderfully. That episode and those scenes show from the very beginning why SF would never work.
I think a lot of pro-Neal fans actually love his relationship with Henry more than Emma. And I’m fine with that; I liked that storyline a lot. When he learned about Henry, he stepped up and wanted to take on that role. But his relationship with Emma as anything other than co-parents? Fail.
I think I’m probably the only one who was happy that Soulmate/True Love question was addressed. I think most of you all know I’m still working on my True Love meta and actually, the answer isn’t as complicated as it seems once you break it down.
The TV definition of a soulmate isn’t that different from ‘One True Love’ where in both, you believe that you love only one person. And actually we’ve seen with Snowing that they they are true loves and only love each other. There is really no one else for either of them. It actually connects at least those three ideas together, which is really nice. If you were to consider what we know of Snowing, then you could also classify them as soulmates as well as true love and one true love.
I gotta say, a lot of news from comic con has me super happy.
And Jen and Colin were just adorable at the panel.
I think I’m probably the only one who was happy that Soulmate/True Love question was addressed. I think most of you all know I’m still working on my True Love meta and actually, the answer isn’t as complicated as it seems once you break it down. The TV definition of a soulmate isn’t that different from ‘One True Love’ where in both, you believe that you love only one person. And actually we’ve seen with Snowing that they they are true loves and only love each other. There is really no one else for either of them. It actually connects at least those three ideas together, which is really nice. If you were to consider what we know of Snowing, then you could also classify them as soulmates as well as true love and one true love.
This is what I pretty much think, too. I really hate the whole ‘one’ true love and ‘one’ soulmate – I don’t believe we as human beings need another half to make us whole. You don’t have to have your act completely together – who of us does? – but you need to be able to survive and live on your own to be a partner to someone else. Emma and Hook are perfect examples – both of them were still very primitive, functioning on instinct and had very little coping or even basic social skills when first coming to Storybrooke. However, we’ve seen both of them develop the tools you need in order to become a whole, complete human. And that’s when you can begin to deal with a romantic relationship. So now, when they struggle with their inner demons, they understand how to not only depend on themselves, but allow themselves to be dependent on another person, and work at overcoming their problems.
So, for me, ‘true love’ and ‘soulmate’ really, is just semantics. What makes Emma special? Ultimately? I’m not sure she is more special than others who are the ‘product’ of true love. She was integral to the curse and became the savior because Rumple was able to secure the ‘ingredients’ from her parents, who had true love, but I’m not sure that if he had come across another TL couple, he couldn’t have made the curse work, either. All of the pieces needed to fit. He needed a TL couple. He needed a TL couple having a child – to break said curse. He found that in Snowing. In watching the Cinderella ep in S1 (forget which number or the name of the ep), I think we saw that it COULD be other TL couples and children to satisfy the curse…but they found themselves a way out of their deal with Rumple – whereas when Snowing unwittingly gave him Emma’s name, and therefore the way to break the curse, he was finally able to but the curse into effect. True Love, even in OUAT, is still rare – how many have we seen that don’t have TL? Gepetto? (except for the whole weird wooden kid thing) Archie? Granny? The dwarves? And the list goes on. So debate TL vs soulmate all you want, though A&E’s answer was awkward and really, they should have been prepared for it, when it comes down to it I don’t think they’re attempting to ‘retcon’ anything and for me, their answer changes nothing about the story they’ve been telling since Day 1.
Ah, but when he actually DID do something heroic in sending the potion with the dove, who did he send it to? Yeah, the man he knew would get the job done no matter the risk, no matter the obstacles, no matter what it cost, personally. Yeah. The man who truly loved Emma and would take on the world and risk his life to bring her back.
Wow, your wording here is perfect- really drives the fundamental reason behind Neal sending the dove to ‘Hook’ of all people. Have a coconut & Hookie cookie 😀
Instead of analyzing the clumsy reply given, I’m more inclined to shake my head at A&E and stick with my own interpretation:
Yeah, exactly what I’m doing- the answer they gave DOES change cannon on the show, so in this one case (ok- lies, 2nd case – I cant stand the name Snowing gave their baby- I just find it way creepy that they called their son after their daughters Ex boyfriend- the guy who trampled her heart, taught her it was good to be a criminal, got her pregnant as a teenager, let her rot in prison & abandoned her- so I’ll call him anything but that 😛 ) I’m just gonna ignore their ”oh crap- didnt expect that question’ response & go off of what they’ve had the characters on screen actually tell us in dialogue multiple times already.
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